The government asks for boards.ie advice regarding budget cuts

gonedrinking

Well not yet anyway, but things seem to be going that way. I mean, if they want advice from Kenny and Gilmore then what harm would it be to ask us, its not like we can do any worse. So what do you think should be cut in this budget?

My proposals are:

- Hit pensioners and hit them hard. More stricter means testing for the medical card. If you can afford medical care then you pay for it, simples.

- Introduce a similiar student loan system that operates in the UK, that is, the government loans you money for your courses fees and living expenses, and you start paying it back when you start earning over a certain amount. This is a fair and equitable system, theres no reason why it shouldn't be introduced here. This will replace the overly generous and wasteful grant system currently in place.

- Dole reduced to 150 euro. No faffing about taking 5 euro or so of it or any of that sh1te.

- Increase the income levy another 2%, we can all take the hit no worries.

- Also not really a budget measure, but there should be government collection boxes in every shop in the country, so that you can give your spare change to the government coffers, charity begins at home and all that.

squod

Eh.......... Create some jobs?

emo72

ha ha your user name betrays you.

Smyth

squod wrote: »

Eh.......... Create some jobs?

Game. Set. Match.

thebigbiffo

squod wrote: »

Eh.......... Create some jobs?

pics and tutorial or gtfo

Limerick3

more jobs:cool:

KeithM89_old

'Selective cleansing' - theres a lot of wastage in Ireland thats just a burden, get rid of them.:)






What??

thebigbiffo

i agree with the OP here.

and this standard 'create jobs' is the biggest cop out of rational argument ever. the basic idea is sound enough - but if it was as simple as just 'creating jobs' we'd be laughing...unfortunately, its just a tad more complicated than that

biko

Any government official cannot earn more than 100K in total, including pension plans.
This is four times what many people earn so should be enough for them.

Means tested child benefits, or any benefits for that matter.

Duggy747

Free donuts, seriously.

The scheme that dole scroungers should be doing something to earn their keep should've been brought in long ago.

Cheap Thrills!

They need to cut Berties chauffer and other stuff the tabloids sez. :cool:

GAAman

Abortions for some, miniature american flags for others!

skywalker

gonedrinking wrote: »

- Increase the income levy another 2%, we can all take the hit no worries.

Why would anyone want an increase in 'levys' rather than an increase in standard paye? How quick do you think the govt will be to do away with income levys when they are no longer needed?

The income levy is an abhorrant concept in the first place. If theres a need for increased taxation then increase tax, but tax me once.

longhalloween

I take it you are neither

A pensioner
A student
Unemployed
Earning minimum wage

blue.jester

Good lord those are some bad ideas.

The root of the problem is job creation. It's the one thing the Government can't seem to grasp. They complain that the tax intake is getting smaller and smaller yet are baffled as to why.

Simples (as you say): Less people working, less tax intake. More people taking pay cuts means less to tax them on.

Without creating jobs the tax intake is going to constantly be getting smaller and smaller year on year. Not to mention that people who are threading water with their wages now are looking at Oz/US/Canada. Meaning more money disappearing.

The "just add on 2% to the income levy" is also a bit of a bad idea. 2% might sound like nothing, but to people just about surviving now that 2% could be the difference between paying your bills each month and having to decide which bill to pay.

Job creation is the only logical solution, thus increasing the tax intake. All members of Government taking serious pay cuts is also needed, along with abolishing all the "perks" they have. If Ivor Calley has thought us nothing is that the men in the House think they are entitled to everything. The judge that is listening to Ivor's case at the minute should just throw it out, that man has some balls.

And I want to be clear, I am not starting a private/public sector debate, but the public sector needs reforms. The higher ups (not the frontline folks) need to be culled/chopped/whatever and hand over their insanely stupid wages in lieu of a more appropriate wage. The unions also need to wise up and realise that they can't keep demanding whatever they want and threatening strike action all the time. They are almost as bad as the Gov when it comes to being unrealistic.

A better solution than just upping the levy again is to introduce higher tax brackets for people earning 90K+ and an income levy that targets those same folks. The more general the pain sharing the better of the 90K+ are, as they contribute less but gain more.

Just my two cents on the matter.

smash

gonedrinking wrote: »

- Increase the income levy another 2%, we can all take the hit no worries.

Hasn't it been proven over and over that you can't tax your way out of a recession?

McDougal

Ireland needs a Robespeirre type figure to fix our country

Morlar

My proposals :

Deport all illegals, stop agreeing to eu ideas that cost us a fortune, reduce benefits, Cull the public sector, roll some heads at the HSE. Ban siptu.

McDougal

steve06 wrote: »

Hasn't it been proven over and over that you can't tax your way out of a recession?

You can't cut your way out of recession

gonedrinking

Go on then bluejester, what are your suggestions for job creation then? I'm sure the government never even thought of that idea, but go on, lets here your ideas for it?

That_Guy

Paul Gogarty is on boards. Ask him.

enniscorthy

PRINT MORE MONEY REGARDS BRIAN

Sanjuro

That_Guy wrote: »

Paul Gogarty is on boards. Ask him.

But be prepared for profanity and nothing actually worth listening to.

phill106

Means test all allowances.
Childrens-Pension
If someone is making 100 grand a year, they do not need either.
Ditto on the politician pay cuts. I'd go further, Have all politicians have a salary of 50k. If they cant live on that, then imagine how those of us on half that survive.
Cut individual ministerial cars and drivers. Have a pool of government cars which can be called upon as needed. Does anyone care which 2009 mercedes they are getting into?
Lifetime dole scroungers- Job placement or cut off.
Stop rich criminals signing over assets to partners before they are declared bankrupt.
Setup huge wind farm for power generation off the west coast. Bring in much needed jobs, and can hopefully export the electricity once it is up to capacity.
Politicians expenses. You know they are taking the piss. If one takes the piss with any one expense, all expenses for that month must be paid back for a first offence.
Second offence, all expenses paid back for that year.
Third offence, barred from public office for life.

Twin-go

• Six Sigma the Public sector.
• Replace 50%+ of Dole money with vouchers for food and cloths.
• Remove Motor Tax and VRT and Replace with tax on fuel, that way the user really pays.
• Reduce the Minimum wage (benchmark with rest of EU)

syklops

gonedrinking wrote: »

My proposals are:

- Hit pensioners and hit them hard. More stricter means testing for the medical card. If you can afford medical care then you pay for it, simples.

Pensioners? People who worked all their lives, and receive a paltry sum as it is, and we have to hit them harder? Also, our health service is practically 3rd world. Anyone who can afford to go private already does. Charging people for the privilege of waiting on a trolley for 22 hours is not a smart idea.

- Introduce a similiar student loan system that operates in the UK, that is, the government loans you money for your courses fees and living expenses, and you start paying it back when you start earning over a certain amount. This is a fair and equitable system, theres no reason why it shouldn't be introduced here. This will replace the overly generous and wasteful grant system currently in place.

The Government has no money to give anyone a loan. Instead of having a grant which is used to pay for the fees charged by our 'free' education bodies, just get rid of the grant, and get rid of the fees.

- Dole reduced to 150 euro. No faffing about taking 5 euro or so of it or any of that sh1te.

And restructure it. I would even go as far as to bring in tokens, like food vouchers. Dole money should not be used to pay off peoples mortgages. It is to feed you.

- Increase the income levy another 2%, we can all take the hit no worries.

The amount raised by it is generally pretty small, and it removes alot of disposable income from the marketplace. Does more harm than good. Also cant be depended upon if people are losing jobs left right and centre.

- Also not really a budget measure, but there should be government collection boxes in every shop in the country, so that you can give your spare change to the government coffers, charity begins at home and all that.

There kind of is already, its called the national solidarity bond. I have signed up for it. Basically you give the government some money every year for a few years(I think it is 5 years), while things are bad, and hopefully when things are good again they give it back to you plus interest.

Other things I would do is get rid of some of the Quangos, the RSA would be the first on the list.

I would also amalgamate the 30+ City and County Councils, into about 5 Councils.

I would sell any state-owned or semi-state owned company which can not turn a profit to the highest bidder.

I would remove the 10 euro levy on flights, and to Ireland more attractive to tourists I would lower VAT and Stamp duty for short term visitors to Ireland, making us a cheaper destination for travelers.

I have loads of other ideas too.

squod

thebigbiffo wrote: »

pics and tutorial or gtfo

We currently are providing scrapage schemes to car dealers. Those schemes directly benefit the manufacturer and secondary industries in their host countries. We should be doing this for our own manufacturing sector. Not France's or Korea's!

Many companies that shifted manufacturing abroad could now be in a position to shift their operations back here as many companies relied on huge volumes of product being made. In some cases products could now be made here as cheaply.

There's huge potential for improvement in farming here also. Many smaller farms are under used and no-one seems to consider handing them over (on contract) to agencies, who could specialise in turning a few euros out of them using the people that are waiting around to work.

I'm no expert, but is anyone looking at job creation in this country at all?

phill106

Oh and public sector. No jobs for life please. If your not productive, you can get sacked just like any other job in the country.

smash

McDougal wrote: »

You can't cut your way out of recession

well not while the Croke Park agreement is in place anyway.

phill106

Ask all irish people and people of irish descent around the world to send the government a few euro each, depending on their income

Demonique

*Seeing as the UK government has dropped child benefit for people who earn more than £42,000 per year, the Irish government should drop child benefit for people earning more than €48,000 per year.

*Either raise the disability-related benefits to the current rate of the lower old-age pension, the disabled and old people are some of the most vulnerable in society, it's a joke that disabled people receive less than pensioners.

*People on the dole have to provide proof that they're seeking work, e.g. proof of attending interviews, etc, else they run the risk of losing their benefits.
Maybe an exemption for people who are on training courses?

gonedrinking

syklops wrote: »

There kind of is already, its called the national solidarity bond. I have signed up for it. Basically you give the government some money every year for a few years(I think it is 5 years), while things are bad, and hopefully when things are good again they give it back to you plus interest.

But if they have to repay it with interest then thats just creating another liability for them. I'd prefer to just give them the money to keep.

Gone Drinking

Wow, i must be drunker than i thought.. because i do not remember starting this thread.

gonedrinking

Gone Drinking wrote: »

Wow, i must be drunker than i thought.. because i do not remember starting this thread.

I can't remember which is the real me

syklops

gonedrinking wrote: »

But if they have to repay it with interest then thats just creating another liability for them. I'd prefer to just give them the money to keep.

We already do. Its called income tax, Value-added-tax, duty, inheritance Tax, Vehicle registration tax, Motor tax, rates, Capital gains tax, corporation tax, I-cant-believe-its-not Tax(Income Levy).

gonedrinking

syklops wrote: »

We already do. Its called income tax, Value-added-tax, duty, inheritance Tax, Vehicle registration tax, Motor tax, rates, Capital gains tax, corporation tax, I-cant-believe-its-not Tax(Income Levy).

Yeah but I'm taking about spare change, you know when the shopkeeper gives you back a load of 20/10/50 cent pieces etc and you couldn't be arsed hauling them around with you all day so you throw them into the charity box, well if there was a government box I would put them in there instead. There are also people who after tax still have loads of disposable income left so they could happily chuck a few euros into the box to help the country get back to its feet again. It would be a great money spinner, and everyone would be doing their own little bit in their own little way.

smash

gonedrinking wrote: »

It would be a great money spinner, and everyone would be doing their own little bit in their own little way.

And how much of it do you think would actually go towards helping the country out of this hole we're in.

Morlar

gonedrinking wrote: »

Yeah but I'm taking about spare change, you know when the shopkeeper gives you back a load of 20/10/50 cent pieces etc and you couldn't be arsed hauling them around with you all day so you throw them into the charity box, well if there was a government box I would put them in there instead.

Assuming everyone in the country put €1 in change into that box it would only take us a couple of billion years to fix the black hole in the state finances.

thebigbiffo

squod wrote: »

We currently are providing scrapage schemes to car dealers. Those schemes directly benefit the manufacturer and secondary industries in their host countries. We should be doing this for our own manufacturing sector. Not France's or Korea's!

Many companies that shifted manufacturing abroad could now be in a position to shift their operations back here as many companies relied on huge volumes of product being made. In some cases products could now be made here as cheaply.

There's huge potential for improvement in farming here also. Many smaller farms are under used and no-one seems to consider handing them over (on contract) to agencies, who could specialise in turning a few euros out of them using the people that are waiting around to work.

I'm no expert, but is anyone looking at job creation in this country at all?

i dont want to be negative here because i do see your point. but these example are misleading.

the scrappage scheme made sense as the coffers benefitted from VRT etc on new cars while taking older, more dangerous models out of the market. the scheme directly benefited the gov and wouldnt have created many jobs, although it probably saved a few...

manufaturers wont 'come back', we are becoming more competitive due to availability of labour etc.

theres f'uck all room to make money at farming anymore. the only way to make a proper living or a proper business with significant amount of employees in farming is to have huge amounts of land, and even that depends to too large an extent on subsidies...

but to expand on that and stick with your suggested areas: investment in training in high tech manufacturing and trying to attract companies to ireland is ongoing and very important for the future of the employment market. its a shame FAS have a hand in this as they are now in a **** state - the IDA are not bad at what they do in fairness. we've a bit of a reputation for t'internets stuff with the googles, the facebooks and the e-bays having significant operations here...expanding on that is and should be a prority.

the big problem as i see it is that a large oprtion of people who lost their jobs are in the 'unskilled' category and came from construction and related industries - whereas a solicitor who worked mostly in conveyence may move to another sector, a labourer doesnt have the same opportunites even if the place does get out of recession.

job creation is vital - and i do hope someone is thinking about it in governement buildings somewhere. cos i'm fairly s'hit at it

syklops

When I was living at home, I was paying about a 1000 euro in tax every month from PRSI and PAYE. I was a smoker, so I was paying about 6 quid a day in tax on Cigarettes, a regular drinker, so I was paying another 20-30 euro every few days on alcohol duty, plus everything I bought, 21.5% of went directly to the tax man. If the government has not enough money with all of that money coming in, do you really think the one and 2 cent coins that end up at the back of your sofa are really going to help them out of the mess they have gotten into?

gonedrinking

Morlar wrote: »

Assuming everyone in the country put €1 in change into that box it would only take us a couple of billion years to fix the black hole in the state finances.

if every adult put a euro in a day that would mean, we would take in about 3 million a day, which is 1,095 million a year, thats not too shabby

gonedrinking

steve06 wrote: »

And how much of it do you think would actually go towards helping the country out of this hole we're in.

if it paid for a few hospitals do you not think it would be worth it? I really don't see what peoples problem are with this idea, its a voluntary donation box, no one will be forcing you to donate

danniemcq

sell all tv's, playstaions, xboxs, pool tables etc that are in prisons. you get some money, don't hjave to pay TV licences for them and also make prison somewhere where you wouldn't want to go.

legalise drugs with 50% tax on them all (people know they are bad for you but if they want to do them very well)

hard labour, get roads built

Asilum Seekers, if they want to stay give them jobs. Have them picking up rubbish on the streets instead of busting them everytim ethey seel fake roses at 4 in the morning.

Insentives to get off dole, have everyone on dole do month of volunteer work for every 6 months they are unemployed. this gives them free skills in loads of stuff and if they working for "free" might make them wanna work to be paid. Don't reduce dole payments as Ireland is way to expensive to live atm.

Make mutli office services one, the hassle/parperwork/effort into anything you need these days is mental, to get medical card renewed my girlfriend had to go to 3 differnet buildings on opposite sides of town, send stuff away wait to get it back and then head to the same building she was at before.

danniemcq

gonedrinking wrote: »

if every adult put a euro in a day that would mean, we would take in about 3 million a day, which is 1,095 million a year, thats not too shabby

so thats just 35 years till anglo is paid off?

or are we one of the countries with a weird billion?

Scráib

If there's two things I believe it's that you can't tax yourself out of recession and you need to spend money to make money.

There's only so much money the government can take out of the economy before you'll basically stop the wheels turning fast enough to get us out of the mess we're in.

And while the government can't wave a wand and 'create jobs' they can invest in infrastructure, put business creation schemes in place and then announce them loudly so that people see they're trying to dig us out instead of just raising taxes.

fat__tony

gonedrinking wrote: »

Well not yet anyway, but things seem to be going that way. I mean, if they want advice from Kenny and Gilmore then what harm would it be to ask us, its not like we can do any worse. So what do you think should be cut in this budget?

My proposals are:

- Hit pensioners and hit them hard. More stricter means testing for the medical card. If you can afford medical care then you pay for it, simples.

- Introduce a similiar student loan system that operates in the UK, that is, the government loans you money for your courses fees and living expenses, and you start paying it back when you start earning over a certain amount. This is a fair and equitable system, theres no reason why it shouldn't be introduced here. This will replace the overly generous and wasteful grant system currently in place.

- Dole reduced to 150 euro. No faffing about taking 5 euro or so of it or any of that sh1te.

- Increase the income levy another 2%, we can all take the hit no worries.

- Also not really a budget measure, but there should be government collection boxes in every shop in the country, so that you can give your spare change to the government coffers, charity begins at home and all that.

Your policies are ****e, hit the vulnerable and the elderly that'll really benefit the economy. :rolleyes:

Did you ever hear the old saying that you can't tax your way out of a reccession?

You should stop drinking and clear your head.

gonedrinking

danniemcq wrote: »

so thats just 35 years till anglo is paid off?

or are we one of the countries with a weird billion?

I'm not proposing it as the only solution, I'm proposing it as an additional measure we can take to speed up recovery

gonedrinking

fat__tony wrote: »

Your policies are ****e, hit the vulnerable and the elderly that'll really benefit the economy. :rolleyes:

Did you ever hear the old saying that you can't tax your way out of a reccession?

You should stop drinking and clear your head.

The government are going to be making cuts, big cuts, thats a fact. Whether you agree with this stance is neither here nor there, but this thread if for suggestions about cuts.

gonedrinking

Scráib wrote: »

And while the government can't wave a wand and 'create jobs' they can invest in infrastructure, put business creation schemes in place and then announce them loudly so that people see they're trying to dig us out instead of just raising taxes.

and how can we pay for those things when we can't even pay for our hospitals/schools etc without massive borrowing at huge interest rates

gonedrinking

danniemcq wrote: »

legalise drugs with 50% tax on them all (people know they are bad for you but if they want to do them very well)

california is about to legalise weed, Ireland should seriously start considering it as well

syklops

gonedrinking wrote: »

if every adult put a euro in a day that would mean, we would take in about 3 million a day, which is 1,095 million a year, thats not too shabby

So it would only take about 100 years to pay off what we own. When I am dead, and my offspring are in their late 40's.

Not exactly a fast recovery is it?