Cherrywood Luas - door to desk +20mins!!!

fenris

Being a good little Bray to Fitzwilliam Square commuter, I decided to try the Cherrywood LUAS today.

Got parking near some ghost flats and got a seat on the LUAS - happy days
Travel time from Door to Desk was 1h 32 mins:

20 minutes longer than driving
25 minutes longer than parking and LUAS from Killmacud
35 minute longer than cycling

This is on a typical two gear Tuesday leaving Bray at 8:15 which is usually the slowest day of the week.

I was trying to figure out the sweet spot to catch the LUAS from without getting snarled in Sandyford traffic but there doesn't seem to be anywhere to park near the Cherrywood line stops, most of the stops seem to be effectively private stops for the people living in adjacent estates as they are not of any use to people commuting from further afield. Am I missing something?

No doubt there will be an outbreak of double yellow lines from various residents groups over the next few weeks to remove whatever parking exists.

listermint

Dont blame the residents groups mate, blame the lack of P&R facilties at the stops. Its ridiculous with the amount of land beside some of the stops.

Bad Planning, plain and simple and frankly likely to turn people off using it.

listermint

On a second note , not to thread jump but 2.30 from cherrywood to Dundrum is a bit steep. It cost 2.20 on the bus from Cherrywood to the city centre.
What gives?

Cookie_Monster

not to sound like a broken record here but would you not try the 145 from Bray?
will def be quicker than drive and luas, maybe not than the cycling though

listermint

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

not to sound like a broken record here but would you not try the 145 from Bray?
will def be quicker than drive and luas, maybe not than the cycling though

I think the OP was just giving the Luas a bash to hash it out, but yeah probably agree the 145 would be the better public transport option.

Cuddlesworth

84x would be better again.

loyatemu

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

84x would be better again.

only serves the southern cross end of Bray.

fenris

listermint wrote: »

I think the OP was just giving the Luas a bash to hash it out, but yeah probably agree the 145 would be the better public transport option.

Yep, I was just trying it out to see if it was viable

Cycling everyday would be grand but I am just not there yet and I need to be able to think straight in work - so twice a week works okay, more that that and I am fecked.

the 145 is definitely on the list, there is a stop just around the corner from work, I am guessing a travel time of approx. an hour for the 145 in the morning from Killarney Road (8 ish departure) and the same for the evening (17:30 ish departure) with a reasonable expectation of a seat (previously broken pelvis makes standing for an hour on a bus less than enticing).

I have to travel at those times to drop/pick up the kids from creche so more sensible options like moving to less busy times are not a runner.

I was just a little bit gobsmacked and disappointed at the sheer nakedness of the emperor this morning!

KC61

The fundamental problem is a lack of Park & Ride facilities on the route. It is not currently designed to facilitate people such as the OP, but rather only people being dropped off or living next to the stops.

I would echo the other posters to the OP - why not try the 145 - it goes past Fitzwilliam Place.

Re the fare from Cherrywood to Dundrum - if that were a direct bus route it would be 14 stages which would be EUR 2.20 (looking at routes 145 and 75), so not that much of a difference.

Cuddlesworth

fenris wrote: »

the 145 is definitely on the list, there is a stop just around the corner from work, I am guessing a travel time of approx. an hour for the 145 in the morning from Killarney Road (8 ish departure) and the same for the evening (17:30 ish departure) with a reasonable expectation of a seat (previously broken pelvis makes standing for an hour on a bus less than enticing).

Journey times are far longer in the evenings and Seats outside of the stops before and after Connolly bridge are unlikely during rush hour. This is due to the infrequent 145 sharing the same stops as the frequent 46A for the first half of its journey. Rule of Thumb is if you haven't seen a 46A for ten minutes but see a 145, its full.

Cookie_Monster

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Journey times are far longer in the evenings and Seats outside of the stops before and after Connolly bridge are unlikely during rush hour. This is due to the infrequent 145 sharing the same stops as the frequent 46A for the first half of its journey

46a every 7-8 mins. 145 every 10, how is that infrequent?
that said it really should be minimum fair at rush hour. I have never had a problem getting a seat at Stephens Green though

BrianD

Well perhaps it will be a lesson to the RPA and various TDs that you can't indefinitely stretch light rail and expect hi-speed and hi-volume transportation. It was property developers who influenced the route from Sandyford to Brides Glen.

Hopefully, this will put paid to any plans to extend on the green line to Bray and that the millions can be diverted to providing further improvements to the DART service that already services Bray to the city centre.

Cuddlesworth

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

46a every 7-8 mins. 145 every 10, how is that infrequent?
that said it really should be minimum fair at rush hour. I have had a problem getting a seat at Stephens Green though

Its infrequent when it leaves at a stop over three times the distance of the 46a route and the distance intervals between bus's becomes closer to a half an hour during rush hour because the timing gets screwed. When I was using this route it was not uncommon to be waiting upwards of thirty minutes in town for a 145 in the evenings only for it to be full on the first stop.

I bought a motorbike though and now enjoy my evenings.

loyatemu

BrianD wrote: »

Hopefully, this will put paid to any plans to extend on the green line to Bray and that the millions can be diverted to providing further improvements to the DART service that already services Bray to the city centre.

good call - spend the money (when we eventually have money again) on fixing this, it currently takes 40 minutes for the DART to travel the 12 miles between Bray and Pearse - if this was reduced, frequency increased and proper prioritised feeder bus services introduced in Bray and elsewhere along the Dart hinterland it could be much more effective than continuously lengthening the Luas.

4diarmuid

Tried to e-mail them today to ask where I should park! Their Internet contact system is down!!!!

What the heck!

mikemac

Why not call them and get an instant answer?
No need to wait for an email reply

Tel: +353 (0) 1 461 4910

KC61

4diarmuid wrote: »

Tried to e-mail them today to ask where I should park! Their Internet contact system is down!!!!

What the heck!

You're not supposed to park anywhere on the route - as I say it is designed for drop offs and local residents! Madness but that is the way it is.

KC61

loyatemu wrote: »

good call - spend the money (when we eventually have money again) on fixing this, it currently takes 40 minutes for the DART to travel the 12 miles between Bray and Pearse - if this was reduced, frequency increased and proper prioritised feeder bus services introduced in Bray and elsewhere along the Dart hinterland it could be much more effective than continuously lengthening the Luas.

I don't think that money being available will improve the permanent speed restriction from Dun Laoghaire to Sandycove as there is not an awful lot that can be done to realign the track in this section.

The temporary 10mph restriction should be lifted once the work being carried out overhead is lifted.

AlekSmart

It cost 2.20 on the bus from Cherrywood to the city centre.
What gives?

But but bu......Listermint,If`n the peep`s had a Travel90 ticket that €2.20 magically becomes €1.85...It`s a No Brainer !!

However the OP`s post does underline the presence of people who ARE willing to try new stuff or to accept that there could be a better way of doing their daily commute.

This is where we,as in the Public Transport providers,have failed our Public.

Dublin Bus,in particular,has had a golden opportunity to put some welly into making Cherrywood a DB/Luas interchange of note.
Sadly,for some inexplicable reason the bottle went and we now pretend it`s not there at all.

I`ll say it again....Cherrywood currently represents OPPORTUNITY for any company or civic entity prepared to get innovative about it.

Any Germans around ????

Propellerhead

fenris wrote: »

Yep, I was just trying it out to see if it was viable

Cycling everyday would be grand but I am just not there yet and I need to be able to think straight in work - so twice a week works okay, more that that and I am fecked.

the 145 is definitely on the list, there is a stop just around the corner from work, I am guessing a travel time of approx. an hour for the 145 in the morning from Killarney Road (8 ish departure) and the same for the evening (17:30 ish departure) with a reasonable expectation of a seat (previously broken pelvis makes standing for an hour on a bus less than enticing).

I have to travel at those times to drop/pick up the kids from creche so more sensible options like moving to less busy times are not a runner.

I was just a little bit gobsmacked and disappointed at the sheer nakedness of the emperor this morning!

I'm gobsmacked too that DART doesn't appear to be an option for you. You were prepared to drive further away than Bray station for a forty minute journey to the Green and are prepared to get the bus, which I guess takes somewhat longer than both Luas or DART.

Does not compute.

Cookie_Monster

4diarmuid wrote: »

Tried to e-mail them today to ask where I should park! Their Internet contact system is down!!!!

What the heck!

did you ask them what you are having for dinner or if you should go to the pub on Thursday too?
:rolleyes: where you park has nothing to do with them running a tram service

fenris

Propellerhead wrote: »

I'm gobsmacked too that DART doesn't appear to be an option for you. You were prepared to drive further away than Bray station for a forty minute journey to the Green and are prepared to get the bus, which I guess takes somewhat longer than both Luas or DART.

Does not compute.

DART was the first one that I tried, but door to desk time was always significantly longer than driving particularly on the way home, far to unreliable to take a chance with if I was on creche pickup duty. That and the fact that mobile coverage is very poor along the DART line means that the time spent on the DART even with a seat is completely wasted for checking mail or making calls, at least in the car I can make and take calls, on the LUAS I could get a head start on emails, the DART was just late, slow and stank of urine as often as not.

The commute home today was not bad, 1h 10m - on a par with the car on a Tuesday evening.

DDigital

KC61 wrote: »

The fundamental problem is a lack of Park & Ride facilities on the route. It is not currently designed to facilitate people such as the OP, but rather only people being dropped off or living next to the stops.

So as pointed out a multitude of times over the years, this extension was in essence driven by development and developers? But development has stopped, developers have gone bust and 300 million has been spent in an area that didn't really need it? I assume park and ride wasn't considered because the line was meant to swing through a vast complex of apartments?

Went through Citywest tonight and that luas extension is another agricultural vehicle in the making.

4diarmuid

"Where you park has nothing to do with them running a tram service."

Cookie Monster seems to miss the main objective of providing public transport services. Read the Transport Act 1996 that initially gave CIE the mission to provide light rail transport. This was to move people from their cars on to buses, trams and rail transport. Having lived on the continent for many years it was a given that all tram and rail systems had suburban park+ride facilities.

Cookie Monster might also have a similar view on our motorways' lack of service station facilities. The road builders have nothing to do with us needing fuel, food and toilet facilities on our journeys!!!

Cookie_Monster

4diarmuid wrote: »

"Where you park has nothing to do with them running a tram service."

Cookie Monster seems to miss the main objective of providing public transport services. Read the Transport Act 1996 that initially gave CIE the mission to provide light rail transport. This was to move people from their cars on to buses, trams and rail transport. Having lived on the continent for many years it was a given that all tram and rail systems had suburban park+ride facilities.

Veolia are contracted to run a tram service. they have nothing to do with parking which is/was the remit of NTA, RPA and local developers to provide.
Also what do CIE have to do with the LUAS?

Cookie Monster might also have a similar view on our motorways' lack of service station facilities. The road builders have nothing to do with us needing fuel, food and toilet facilities on our journeys!!!

don't be so presumptuous

DDigital

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Also what do CIE have to do with the LUAS?

They first proposed it and the CIE light rail office was in charge of it until the RPA were created by a transport act.

km991148

Just to add to op.. yep I go Rathgar - Cherrywood and my journey is at least +15mins each way previously it was:

Cycle full distance - 40mins
Cycle to milltown/luas to Sandyford/ Commuter business shuttle bus - 35mins
Cycle to milltown, improved service to cherrywood + longer walk at bridesglen = 50/55 (if I get a luas on time)

the only small advantage is that they are more freequent than the shuttle bus.. but that was never an issue...

It might not be so bad if the Luas didnt have to almost come to a stop at the ghost future stops and if some of the other stops were closed (I cant rem the names, but there are at least 2 that I have never seen a soul at and are surrounded by fields..)

foggy_lad

fenris wrote: »

DART was the first one that I tried, but door to desk time was always significantly longer than driving particularly on the way home, far to unreliable to take a chance with if I was on creche pickup duty. That and the fact that mobile coverage is very poor along the DART line means that the time spent on the DART even with a seat is completely wasted for checking mail or making calls, at least in the car I can make and take calls, on the LUAS I could get a head start on emails, the DART was just late, slow and stank of urine as often as not.

The commute home today was not bad, 1h 10m - on a par with the car on a Tuesday evening.

you wont make it for creche duty if you cause a massive crash on the way home because you were reading emails instead of the road ahead!

DDigital wrote: »

So as pointed out a multitude of times over the years, this extension was in essence driven by development and developers? But development has stopped, developers have gone bust and 300 million has been spent in an area that didn't really need it? I assume park and ride wasn't considered because the line was meant to swing through a vast complex of apartments?

Went through Citywest tonight and that luas extension is another agricultural vehicle in the making.

just like tallaght cross which looks almost derelict now except for the luas running through it.

Ghost Train

foggy_lad wrote: »

you wont make it for creche duty if you cause a massive crash on the way home because you were reading emails instead of the road ahead!

Only said take/make calls in car, the OP didn't say they read emails in the car

fenris

Ghost Train wrote: »

Only said take/make calls in car, the OP didn't say they read emails in the car

What Ghosty said is correct!!!

The calls are on hands free with voice dialing (N95), with added chuckles when it voice dials the wrong person!

Cookie_Monster

DDigital wrote: »

They first proposed it and the CIE light rail office was in charge of it until the RPA were created by a transport act.

so nothing basically.
vague links in the distant past is all.

BrianD

4diarmuid wrote: »

"Where you park has nothing to do with them running a tram service."

Cookie Monster seems to miss the main objective of providing public transport services. Read the Transport Act 1996 that initially gave CIE the mission to provide light rail transport. This was to move people from their cars on to buses, trams and rail transport. Having lived on the continent for many years it was a given that all tram and rail systems had suburban park+ride facilities.

Cookie Monster might also have a similar view on our motorways' lack of service station facilities. The road builders have nothing to do with us needing fuel, food and toilet facilities on our journeys!!!

However, light rail is best suited to serving existing residential districts like the bus would. Had the 'boom' continued and the development of Sandyford Ind Estate been completed with the substantial residential component there would be strong grounds for closing the P&R facility at sandyford.

Light Rail/tram isn't a fast mode of transport and it isn't a huge mover of people. They aren't great for attracting people out of their cars. P&R is only viable if there are strtches of the lines that do not have large residential areas immediately around them e.g. Sandyford, Red Cow.

KC61

Look people are going waaaay off the point by talking about blaming Veolia / CIE etc.

The point is that this section of the line has been built/designed without park and ride facilities. This is the sole responsibility of the RPA. Nobody else. This was done long after LUAS was removed from CIE's responsibility.

If people have a gripe with it get on to them.

dynamick

Is integration of modes through things like p&r not a function of the NTA?

Perhaps Liam Carroll's liquidator would pour some hardcore over a few acres and make a simple car park as provided by quickpark at Dublin airport

KC61

Design of the LUAS Green Line extension was the responsibility of the RPA. Full stop. Including P & R.

Cuddlesworth

km991148 wrote: »

It might not be so bad if the Luas didnt have to almost come to a stop at the ghost future stops and if some of the other stops were closed (I cant rem the names, but there are at least 2 that I have never seen a soul at and are surrounded by fields..)

Laghlanstown feeds about nine houses. Yep, we have built a light rail system to cater for nine houses. About four of which are farmers who will more then likley use it infrequently at best.

dowlingm

KC61 wrote: »

Design of the LUAS Green Line extension was the responsibility of the RPA. Full stop. Including P & R.

Except the railway order had to pass through at least the Dept of Transport, correct? Shouldn't someone there have picked it up, or at one of the public consultations?

Cookie_Monster

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Laghlanstown feeds about nine houses. Yep, we have built a light rail system to cater for nine houses. About four of which are farmers who will more then likley use it infrequently at best.

so? it goes to quite a large ind est and apats just after it. justbecause one small part of the line has very low density.

dynamick

The railway order included the following:

Work No.10
Construct a two level underground park and ride facility adjacent to and south of the
proposed Carrickmines stop with access stairs, lifts, ramps and access road system as shown
on Plan No.B1-RO 15 B-C and as shown in more detail on Plan Nos.B1-ST 15 B-C 1&2.

Does anyone know why the Carrickmines carpark hasn't been built and if it's due to be built?

dowlingm

dynamick wrote: »

The railway order included the following:

Does anyone know why the Carrickmines carpark hasn't been built and if it's due to be built?

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/city-news/new-park-and-ride-a-boost-for-luas-users-2365158.html

Cookie_Monster

Above link wrote:

The Railway Procurement Agency (RPA) was granted temporary six-year permission. The park-and-ride will also include a bus stop.

what's temporary 6 year permission mean then

Cuddlesworth

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

so? it goes to quite a large ind est and apats just after it. justbecause one small part of the line has very low density.

So?

So, that stop should never have been built after the proposed development never took place. As it is, it takes precious time from every person who actually uses the line, little by little everyday.

Cookie_Monster

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

So?

So, that stop should never have been built after the proposed development never took place. As it is, it takes precious time from every person who actually uses the line, little by little everyday.

why not, more sensible then retro fitting it a few years down the line when the development eventually does happen.

Also two large estate within 5 mins walk of it B and C so not as useless as you imagine

Partizan

Do ye think that the Luas should have been built to the standard rail gauge with the facilities set up for a possible future DART service on the Green Line?

KC61

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

why not, more sensible then retro fitting it a few years down the line when the development eventually does happen.

Also two large estate within 5 mins walk of it B and C so not as useless as you imagine

Your map refers to Carrickmines Stop.

Cuddlesworth is talking about the utterly useless Laughanstown stop which is in the middle of nowhere.

Cookie_Monster

KC61 wrote: »

Your map refers to Carrickmines Stop.

Cuddlesworth is talking about the utterly useless Laughanstown stop which is in the middle of nowhere.

opps, never mind then. the first part of my point is still valid though

Cuddlesworth

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

why not, more sensible then retro fitting it a few years down the line when the development eventually does happen.

On that particular stop, even if the development does happen, there will be nowhere that uses that stop that can't walk "five" minutes to another stop. I'm not kidding, the stop is completely and utterly useless. Its nothing but a reminder that our government bodies are beyond incompetent at anything they put their hands to.

listermint

Would a suggestion not be to board the stop completely up ( no access ) and then motor on through as of there was none...

fenris

I think that the stop is there as a monument to corruption, or is that the whole cherrywood extension?

Goonerette

fenris wrote: »

I think that the stop is there as a monument to corruption, or is that the whole cherrywood extension?

That's exactly it: corruption. I mean, isn't it just wonderful that we have built an expensive modern light rail system to serve a few half-empty housing developments and mostly green fields in Cherrywood (and soon Saggart!), but we only have a crappy and unreliable bus service serving major populations centres where lots of people actually live--now, not in 10 years--e.g. Terenure or Swords or Drumcondra?

I know a lot of people here think it's great that finally for the first time in Irish history seemingly the public services are actually preempting residential development in these areas. I agree with that in principle, but let's face it, we have a horrific public transport system in our capital. We should be building tram and metro lines first where the population density already exists. (And yes, I know the green line extension was built as a PPP. :rolleyes:)

Cookie_Monster

3000+ people work in Cherrywood.
Surrounding housing estates have 10,000+ (conservative)