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Cycling on footpath

  • 18-10-2010 12:27pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2


    Im just wondering if anyone can help me, I was out today on my bike, i was cycling quite slowly on the footpath where stephens green meets the top of grafton street and a guard stopped me, asked for id and address, i gave it to him. Then he told me that he would be in contact and that I would be up in court!! I noticed him stop 3 other people and they looked as if he had done the same to them. Can anyone tell me what is likely to happen to me now? will it make it as far as court? will I have to pay a fine? This seems quite harsh, i was going at walking pace.


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,920 ✭✭✭Vélo


    cocofallon wrote: »
    Im just wondering if anyone can help me, I was out today on my bike, i was cycling quite slowly on the footpath where stephens green meets the top of grafton street and a guard stopped me, asked for id and address, i gave it to him. Then he told me that he would be in contact and that I would be up in court!! I noticed him stop 3 other people and they looked as if he had done the same to them. Can anyone tell me what is likely to happen to me now? will it make it as far as court? will I have to pay a fine? This seems quite harsh, i was going at walking pace.


    You could well go to court. It doesn't matter what speed you were doing, it's against the law to cycle on the footpath.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    cocofallon wrote: »
    i was going at walking pace.
    Would it not have been easier to walk?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,200 ✭✭✭manwithaplan


    You might be alright. I was stopped for breaking a red light (I know) a couple of years ago. My details were taken and I was told I would be making a court appearance but nothing ever came of it. Do what I did - learn your lesson (mostly!) and don't waste nervous energy worrying about something you have no control over. Hope you hear no more about it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 671 ✭✭✭billy.fish


    Its illegal. Unlucky.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    Tut, people like you give the rest of us bad names.

    Delete this thread quickly before we have another story from Emer this week saying I told you so.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,400 ✭✭✭Caroline_ie


    Unless you are a 5 years old child, you shouldn't be cycling on the footpath.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,386 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    seamus wrote: »
    Would it not have been easier to walk?
    Should be walking of course but if it is crowded people could lash their shins off the pedals. I have cycled down grafton street a few times very slowly as when I was walking with the bike it was causing more obstruction, a garda did see me and did nothing, presumably as I was going so slow and I was coming to a halt at times and standing when too many people passed. In effect I was travelling at a walking pace but probably less likely to injure somebody than if I was actually walking with the bike.

    I have seen gardai pull couriers on grafton street, but they were zooming around like madmen.

    Most gardai have sense and know the original purpose of the law and therefore when & where to apply it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,191 ✭✭✭Dr_Colossus


    Was walking up O'Connell St on Sat evening at 20:00 in the direction of the GPO and there was two cyclists cycling on the foot path in front of me. They weren't going at an alarming pace and were well equipped with back flashing lights but there were a few pedestrians about and they were swerving and diving between them on the bikes. Two gardaí in uniform and on patrol walked within arms reach of them in the opposite direction and never said a word to them. About another 100m further up the road there was another two gardai in uniform and they similarly ignored the cyclists cycling on the footpath. Thought at least one of them would have stopped the cyclists and told them to cycle on the road at least. Pretty poor show by the gardaí, what were they patrolling O'Connell St for if unprepared to do anything.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,093 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Vélo wrote: »
    You could well go to court. It doesn't matter what speed you were doing, it's against the law to cycle on the footpath.

    Yes, it does matter.

    There are degrees of breaking the law. And going 20 or 30km is is quite diffrent than going 5km/h or less.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    What's harsh is walking out from a side alley in the city centre and some thick **** runs into you with his bike.
    Not aimed at you OP, but you get the idea.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 155 ✭✭superrdave


    There's been plenty of people on here in the last week complaining about being stopped by the guards for behaviour on their bikes (red lights, footpaths etc).... I think there must be some sort of concerted campaign by the guards at the minute. Best to keep the head low and obey the rules of the road for a while, i think...


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,531 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    cocofallon wrote: »
    asked for id and address, i gave it to him.

    I agree with previous posts about you being in the wrong, but on a more serious note, never show them ID :P


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,505 ✭✭✭✭DirkVoodoo


    I appreciate that you were cycling slowly, but after seeing a lot of this on friday afternoon I'm glad to see the police clamping down. Much like cycling down one way streets, pedestrians don't expect to see cyclists on the footpath and some people FLY along them. All it takes is for someone to make a quick bee-line for a refuse bin or something else unexpected and you have an accident. I don't mind people cycling slowly on footpaths, but not everyone does and not everyone seems able to control a bike so it's best the Gardai make it clear that it won't be tolerated. Stephen's green is relatively bike friendly, why couldn't you use the road?

    Oh on friday there was also a casually dressed chap on a boardman road bike riding up Baggott street towards the Shelbourne hotel before turning left into the contra flow bus lane. Shame on you sir if you read this!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,584 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    Unless you are a 5 years old child, you shouldn't be cycling on the footpath.

    A huge increase in older people cycling on footpaths (50+), pisses me off when running but then again the roads and the "cyclepaths" aren't safe for them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,222 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    tunney wrote: »
    A huge increase in older people cycling on footpaths (50+), pisses me off when running but then again the roads and the "cyclepaths" aren't safe for them.

    Are you volunteering to tell Sean Kelly that he's only allowed to cycle on the footpaths?


  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 78,393 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    What's all this 50+ stuff?

    I know I've a way to go before I'm that old, but does something happen cyclists making them lose the ability to cycle on the road when they're 50?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 303 ✭✭paddymacsporran


    Agree re most of this, shouldn't really be doing it.

    OK, so we are supposed to use the cyclepath if it's there. That's fair enough if it's a proper and safe cycle path. Trouble is there doesn't seem to be any rules on this, their width, quality and state of repair varies a helluva lot.

    What confuses me is what I'm supposed to do when the cyclepath is part of the footpath. I'm safer in amongst the cars, the mixed use paths are a recipe for disaster.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    What confuses me is what I'm supposed to do when the cyclepath is part of the footpath. I'm safer in amongst the cars, the mixed use paths are a recipe for disaster.
    Use the road, it's safer.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,604 ✭✭✭petethedrummer


    seamus wrote: »
    Use the road, it's safer.
    Sometimes its against the law.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,505 ✭✭✭✭DirkVoodoo


    Sometimes its against the law.

    Just like in Black Hawk, Colorado.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭fenris


    There were several Gardai poised notebook ready in the vicinity of Stephens Green, Dawson St at lunch time today pulling cyclists, I saw a girl on a Dublin bike getting done for inching through the traffic lights at the top of Dawson Street and another Garda proceeding towards a courier who was heading the wrong way up Dawson Street in command of a two wheeled veeehikle a few minutes later, so I mended my ways and parked up my ghey bike on Molesworth street instead of mounting then footpath and weaving in a reckless and furious manner through the brownian motion of pedestrians at the top of Grafton Street, ruining my lunchtime buzz but keeping legal.
    So visible enforcement works, the law is respected especially when you can see Gardai about!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,853 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    fenris wrote: »
    the brownian motion of pedestrians at the top of Grafton Street

    Very nice description.

    And they named Fenris' Law after you. I'm envious.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,386 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    fenris wrote: »
    There were several Gardai poised notebook ready in the vicinity of Stephens Green, Dawson St at lunch time today pulling cyclists
    Has anybody seen them doing jaywalkers? I would love to point it out to them if I saw them pulling cyclists. Does anybody even know anyone who was ever done for jaywalking? I only heard of one instance of my mates brother on the N11, and I have seen a ban gardai assisting schoolchildren to illegally jaywalk in the same spot he was done, directly under a pedestrian flyover :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 872 ✭✭✭Sofa King Great


    rubadub wrote: »
    Has anybody seen them doing jaywalkers? I would love to point it out to them if I saw them pulling cyclists. Does anybody even know anyone who was ever done for jaywalking? I only heard of one instance of my mates brother on the N11, and I have seen a ban gardai assisting schoolchildren to illegally jaywalk in the same spot he was done, directly under a pedestrian flyover :rolleyes:
    when cycling a bike you are subject to the road traffic act. No such law exists for pedestrians. This isn't America


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 371 ✭✭Seosaimh77


    rubadub wrote: »
    Has anybody seen them doing jaywalkers? I would love to point it out to them if I saw them pulling cyclists.

    Jaysus, dont encourage them. I'm already worried about getting caught cycling on the path, now you want them to do me for jaywalking too:p

    I've stopped cycling on the path recently as I have noticed them out a lot more lately for cyclists recently too - and drivers getting tickets for offences that are normally ignored (eg, no right turn between 7-10 on smaller side roads in housing estates). The conspiracy theorist in me thinks it's a concerted effort to get more money into the coffers so they dont get a pay cut in the budget - but that sounds a bit too far fetched - doesn't it???


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭Bunnyhopper


    CramCycle wrote: »
    I agree with previous posts about you being in the wrong, but on a more serious note, never show them ID :P

    On an even more serious note: if you're on a bike and stopped for breaking the traffic laws then the Garda can ask for your name, address and DOB. If they're not satisfied with the details you give them they can take the bike away until you do give them satisfactory details. Might be easier just to show them the ID than start quibbling about it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,386 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    when cycling a bike you are subject to the road traffic act. No such law exists for pedestrians. This isn't America
    So I'll take that as a no, you haven't heard of anybody caught for it by gardai.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/si/0182.html#zzsi182y1997a46
    S.I. No. 182/1997 — Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) Regulations, 1997

    46. (1) A pedestrian shall exercise care and take all reasonable precautions in order to avoid causing danger or inconvenience to traffic and other pedestrians.


    (2) A pedestrian facing a traffic light lamp which shows a red light shall not proceed beyond that light.


    (3) A pedestrian about to cross a roadway at a place where traffic sign number RPC 003 or RPC 004 [pedestrian lights] has been provided shall do so only when a lamp of the facing pedestrian lights is lit and emits a constant green light.


    (4) Subject to sub-article (5), save when crossing the roadway, a pedestrian shall use a footway if one is provided, and if one is not provided, shall keep as near as possible to the right edge of the roadway.


    (5) At a road junction where traffic is controlled either by traffic lights or by a member of the Garda Síochána, a pedestrian shall cross the roadway only when traffic going in the direction in which the pedestrian intends to cross is permitted (by the lights or the member) to proceed.


    (6) Within a pedestrian crossing complex [traffic sign number RPC 002] a pedestrian shall only cross the roadway at the location of traffic sign number RPC 001 [pedestrian crossing].


    (7) On a roadway on which a traffic sign number RPC 001 [pedestrian crossing] has been provided, a pedestrian shall not cross the roadway within 15 metres of the crossing, except by the crossing.


    (8) For the purposes of this article, each carriageway of a dual carriageway shall be deemed to be a separate roadway, and where there is a traffic refuge on a roadway the portion of the roadway on each side of the refuge shall be deemed to be a separate roadway.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,532 ✭✭✭Unregistered.


    superrdave wrote: »
    I think there must be some sort of concerted campaign by the guards at the minute.
    They are indeed.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 872 ✭✭✭Sofa King Great


    rubadub wrote: »
    So I'll take that as a no, you haven't heard of anybody caught for it by gardai.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/si/0182.html#zzsi182y1997a46

    I stand corrected


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    superrdave wrote: »
    There's been plenty of people on here in the last week complaining about being stopped by the guards for behaviour on their bikes (red lights, footpaths etc).... I think there must be some sort of concerted campaign by the guards at the minute. Best to keep the head low and obeying the rules of the road for a while, i think...

    Fixed that......


    ......what's so complicated about not cycling on foodpads - it's not rocket surgery, nor is it some obscure rule that only Guards get to know about.

    don't do it - you won't get caught - and you won't have to worry for six months about whether you're going to get a summons......:)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 371 ✭✭Seosaimh77


    Jawgap wrote: »
    ......what's so complicated about not cycling on foodpads - it's not rocket surgery, nor is it some obscure rule that only Guards get to know about.

    don't do it - you won't get caught - and you won't have to worry for six months about whether you're going to get a summons......:)
    Absolutely right (if a little self-righteous...I'm sure you never do anything wrong:rolleyes:).

    Kinda missing the point though... I think a major point is that for years cyclists have cycled right passed Gardai on the path and they have not even looked at us. But suddenly they are enforcing this law. That's fine - they have the right (in fact they have a duty) to enforce it. I can't speak for everyone, but I am very interested as to why there is this sudden change.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,853 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo



    (7) On a roadway on which a traffic sign number RPC 001 [pedestrian crossing] has been provided, a pedestrian shall not cross the roadway within 15 metres of the crossing, except by the crossing.

    It has been suggested here before that you can cross the road anywhere, provided you aren't within 15m of a pedestrian crossing. Not quite the same as jaywalking in the US, if that's the case.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,531 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    On an even more serious note: if you're on a bike and stopped for breaking the traffic laws then the Garda can ask for your name, address and DOB. If they're not satisfied with the details you give them they can take the bike away until you do give them satisfactory details. Might be easier just to show them the ID than start quibbling about it.

    :p = tongue in cheek post AFAIK


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,920 ✭✭✭Vélo


    monument wrote: »
    Yes, it does matter.

    There are degrees of breaking the law. And going 20 or 30km is is quite diffrent than going 5km/h or less.


    Of course there is but it's still breaking the law. Surely if it goes to court then the speed you were doing will come into play. I cycle on the path myself sometimes but only when I have my kids with me and technically I'm breaking the law.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,124 ✭✭✭daragh_


    Saw a Garda message to cyclists on the big electronic sign at the lights before the American Embassy this morning. 'Cyclists, please obey the rules of the road'.

    The sign and the red light were being happily ignored by everyone on a bike (apart from me :rolleyes:) and the Guards at the junction didn't blink.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    I'm sure they're not the worst offenders, but some of the most visible offenders are the Garda cyclists themselves! Two of them this morning riding slowly around by Trinity towards Pearse Street - although in fairness they were mooching along in single file!

    I thought of this thread when I saw them!!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,386 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    Not quite the same as jaywalking in the US, if that's the case.
    Yes, I imagine the laws are different in most countries. "jaywalking" is only a slang term.
    Jawgap wrote: »
    I'm sure they're not the worst offenders, but some of the most visible offenders are the Garda cyclists themselves!
    I see this a lot, they can legally do it, though some would say it sets a bad example. Most gardai doing this, and the majority of people I see cycling on footpaths, are doing it in a safe enough manner. This is no doubt why the gardai do not go after people who are doing the same action that they have no issue with doing themselves.

    As I said before they are fully aware of the intention of the law and so apply it accordingly -rather than being a pedantic idiot wasting everybodies time and taxpayers money.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Can the Guards cycle on the path?

    Certainly if they are pursuing someone or need to take a shortcut to an incident there's a justification for it, but I didn't realise there was a blanket exemption for them.

    the ones I saw this morning looked like they were heading for Pearse Street Garda Station.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,236 ✭✭✭Idleater


    Jawgap wrote: »
    the ones I saw this morning looked like they were heading for Pearse Street Garda Station.

    The rules of the road do not apply to members of the Garda Síochána during the course of their duties.

    Their responsibility to the public should be taken into account when going beyond the rules.
    I.e. they can go through a red traffic light/cycle on the path assuming that doing so would not cause a member of the public undue harm or disruption.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,496 ✭✭✭Mr. Presentable


    Jawgap wrote: »
    Fixed that......


    ......what's so complicated about not cycling on foodpads - it's not rocket surgery, nor is it some obscure rule that only Guards get to know about.

    don't do it - you won't get caught - and you won't have to worry for six months about whether you're going to get a summons......:)

    Awesome!

    I never thought we'd see that again :D


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,004 ✭✭✭mitresize5


    I'm a cyclist myself from 'down the country' so I'm pro cyclist the majority of the time and usually willing to give them the benefit of the doubt but ....

    I was working in Dublin City Centre last week and couldn't get over the amount of cyclist disobeying the rules of the road (mostly breaking red lights, on footpaths etc...)

    People need to understand that they are there for everybodys safety, cyclists, motorist and pedisterians alike..... you cant just go and pick and choose the ones that suit you at a point in time.

    I'll stress that it was a minority of cyclist, but enough of a minority for me to take note of it


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    nereid wrote: »
    The rules of the road do not apply to members of the Garda Síochána during the course of their duties.

    Their responsibility to the public should be taken into account when going beyond the rules.
    I.e. they can go through a red traffic light/cycle on the path assuming that doing so would not cause a member of the public undue harm or disruption.

    Really? I'd love to see where it says they enjoy a general exemption from the Rules of the Road or any road traffic legislation. I know when driving state cars they're exempt from the insurance requirements.

    Whatever about breaking lights etc when they're en-route to an emergency siutation, but surely they still have to obey the rules if and when they are just out and about patrolling or heading to non-emergency jobs?

    EDIT - is there a smiley or several missing from your post?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,236 ✭✭✭Idleater


    Jawgap wrote: »
    EDIT - is there a smiley or several missing from your post?

    unfortunately not


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,531 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Vélo wrote: »
    I cycle on the path myself sometimes but only when I have my kids with me and technically I'm breaking the law.

    AFAIK your not breaking the law if your accompanying children under 16 but I could be wrong


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    I stand corrected......


    ......glad to see they can't be bevvied up while driving though!:)


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,531 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Seen the Gardai in town today pulling over a hipster guy on a pure white mountain bike with blue wheel rims + blue handlebars for running the pedestrian lights at the T junction of George st. and Dame st.

    The one thing I'll note though is another guy in full team lycra (light blue +black, with possibly KPMG or something similar on the side), not only broke the light but was on the wrong side of the road and then took an illegal right hand turn onto George st. was not stopped.

    Is it possible they are stopping only those who look like hipsters?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,545 ✭✭✭droidus


    Lets hope so.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,141 ✭✭✭Doctor Bob


    superrdave wrote: »
    I think there must be some sort of concerted campaign by the guards at the minute.
    They are indeed.

    Is this it? (Though it's not dated - in fact, info in the press release is surprisingly scant - I got it by e-mail from a colleague on 23rd September.)
    "Operation Switched On" - Terenure


    “Operation Switched On” is targeting the two high risk modes of travel which top the fatality risk on the streets and roads of the Dublin Region: -(1) on foot and( 2) on two wheels (pedal / motorbikes).

    Op%20Switch%201.JPG
    These two modes of travel significantly exceed the risk associated with travel via bus / car / van / heavy goods vehicles, a vulnerability which is reflected in the statistics.

    To date this year, 70% of the victims of road fatalities in the Dublin Region were in the pedestrian and two-wheeled category. There were 87 fatalities in this category in 2008 with 71 fatalities to date in 2009.

    Inspector Robert Reynolds of the Divisional Traffic Unit operating out of Terenure Garda Station, responsible for the traffic policing of the Garda Southern Division of the capital, emphasises the increased risk to cyclists during the winter due to the increased hours of darkness. He stresses the importance of illumination ie. the safety associated with compliance with the 1963 Lighting Regulations and adds that An Garda Síochána has a duty of care to police the illumination of cycles during “Lighting Up Time”.

    In conjunction with “Operation Switched On”, a pilot Bicycle Rectification Scheme has been devised within the Terenure and Rathmines Garda District. This initiative facilitates cautioning as an alternative to prosecution where the breaches are discontinued. Compliance with the Rectification Scheme is running at 66%. The offenders who disregard the benefit of the scheme are summonsed.

    The scheme affords cyclists found in breach of Lighting Regulations an opportunity to avoid prosecution by producing their bicycles at a designated Garda Station at 11am on the Saturday morning following detection. If the bicycle is produced with lights, the offenders receive a free high-vis jacket provided by the Road Safety Authority.

    Please see attached photograph of members of the public presenting their bicycles in Terenure.

    Inspector Reynolds speaking in Terenure draws attention to the anguish suffered by motorists who are in a collision with a pedestrian or cyclist. He stated “Where cyclists travel during darkness without illumination on their cycles, the effect is twofold: risk to themselves; and an unnecessary encumbrance to motorists”.

    Inspector Reynolds continues “The effect on the community of a traffic fatality is devastating. 'Operation Switched On' is an effort to make our roads and streets safer for cycle-traffic especially during the long, dark, winter evenings/nights”.

    The success of the pilot scheme has resulted in it being extended to other districts in the Division - Tallaght/Rathfarnham and Crumlin/Sundrive Road.

    Pace our recent smartarse whose Guard didn't show for their court date re the absence of lights on his bike, I note the inclusion of the line 'at a designated Garda Station at 11am on the Saturday morning following detection'. It doesn't say anything about special dispensations for football matches, as far as I can see.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,200 ✭✭✭manwithaplan


    Doctor Bob wrote: »
    Pace our recent smartarse whose Guard didn't show for their court date re the absence of lights on his bike, I note the inclusion of the line 'at a designated Garda Station at 11am on the Saturday morning following detection'. It doesn't say anything about special dispensations for football matches, as far as I can see.

    I think it was important to point that out.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,222 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Doctor Bob wrote: »
    Pace our recent smartarse..

    Pace? Wha?


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