who are they ?

brocdubh

has anyone any idea who these people calling themselves I W F C S S (irish wildlife forestry controlled shooting services) are ? I have met a few people who have come across them in clare and tipp/cork area,they seem to be touring areas trying to get as many permissions as possible and are never seen again.

yog1

would they be getting permissions as possible so that they can return as a shooting holiday group later in the year on or next year

pedroeibar1

irish wildlife forestry controlled shooting services is not a company nor is it registered as a business name.
In my view if they were 'honest' either of the above would have been done... make your own mind up....;)
P.

brocdubh

havn`t a clue who they are, some kind of syndicate, but they have already stepped on a few toes i believe in the west limerick/nth kerry area, with the usual "we have sole rights to shoot here mesage"

brocdubh

as far as i can find out they are not registered as a club either

poulo6.5

I shoot in tip and Kerry but i'v never heard of them. I'd like them to try tell me I can't shoot here. As I have written permission from from most of mine and know all the rest.

It wasn't me!

Sounds like a right pack of gougers. If you meet any of them, ask them for evidence that they own the sporting rights exclusively if they get stroppy. Bloody stupid name anyway; sounds like whoever came up with it used some sort of fieldsports buzzword generator and glued all the results together with a few of their own personal favourite words.

CJhaughey

They could possibly be meat hunters, just out to clean an area out and sell the carcasses to the dealers.

brocdubh

they approached my brother in law in clare earlier this year for permission and told him that they would have sole hunting rights,their rep was told to go back to the ferry very politely, as the local gun club and relations already had written permissions on his land, i hope one of them approach me and give me the"you cant shoot here routine"also see reply to cjhaughy.

brocdubh

you hit it right on the nail,met my butcher earlier today, he says they are well known around north kerry area, they go to areas for a couple of days at a time and shoot as much as they can and sell it on apparently one of their number has a large cold store in his garden.

medicman

down on one of our permissions last week down kenmare way, received a call from the farmer, his next door neighbour had a guy shooting 18 deer in 1 day, male, female and calf's for dog food, might be the same guys, i was not impressed, i asked my farmer to keep a lookout and get the reg of the van next time and i will contact the garda and npws about same. we informed our farmer that it was against the law to shoot like that this time season, but he stated that his next door neighbour was unaware of the shooting as he was out until his next door neighbour told him a few days later, just remember next door is a misnomer, next door is 1-2 klicks away.

anyway, we will be keeping a sharp eye out for these b******s and hope to catch them in the act.

brocdubh

theres a funny thing, a friend of mine came across these guys in the mastergeahy area which isn`t a million miles from kenmare a while back with a trailer load of deer, the only other thing i know about them is they have these big magnetic stickers on their jeeps with the"deerhunters" and "IWFCSS deer management services" on them, i`ll get into my local gun dealers before the day is out to find out the story behind these cowboys.

pedroeibar1

medicman wrote: »

down on one of our permissions last week down kenmare way, .....anyway, we will be keeping a sharp eye out for these b******s and hope to catch them in the act.

Medicman, I know 2 members of AGS living in that #area# - it would be no harm to have a word. You probably know their houses if you shoot there;)
Rs
P.

bunny shooter

Is what these people are doing actually illegal? ......... assuming they have relevant hunting & firearms permits, have permission to shoot on the land they are shooting over and are not shooting out of season?

CJhaughey

bunny shooter wrote: »

Is what these people are doing actually illegal? ......... assuming they have relevant hunting & firearms permits, have permission to shoot on the land they are shooting over and are not shooting out of season?

I wouldn't think so

Medicman wrote: »

reckons 18 deer in 1 day, male, female and calf's

Females and antlerless will be illegal until 1 Nov.

bunny shooter

CJhaughey wrote: »

I wouldn't think so

Females and antlerless will be illegal until 1 Nov.

I know shooting larger numbers of deer and selling the meat to game dealers may not be very sporting but is is actually illegal?

J. Ramone

bunny shooter wrote: »

I know shooting larger numbers of deer and selling the meat to game dealers may not be very sporting but is is actually illegal?

Taxable anyway;)

This kind of thing is not new. I know a farmer who was touted by his forestry consultant on behalf of an outfit with a refrigerated truck who would arrange for the out of season/lamping permits.

bunny shooter

The only way to catch these for tax is to get the game dealers to deduct it at source and submit it to revenue with full details of who it is

Glensman

Just read this thread and can't believe this is happening. It's just wrong :mad:

sikastag

Glensman wrote: »

Just read this thread and can't believe this is happening. It's just wrong :mad:

Unfortunatley more widespread than one would think. Some permissions, some not, some legal, some not, some 'reputable' people within the 'trade', some not. Best we can do is try and mind our own corners, those of us that are legit and help each other out. Lads that are above board I have no qualms with as long as their hunger be it meat, cash or otherwise does not result in the decimation of a healthy herd. Would be a shame and extremely shortsighted.

brocdubh

this crowd are selling venison from a cold room in a back yard

brocdubh

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

Medicman, I know 2 members of AGS living in that #area# - it would be no harm to have a word. You probably know their houses if you shoot there;)
Rs
P.

had a chat with a guy who knows these characters,they turn up with a fist full of paper work saying all "your neighbours have signed up routine"next thing you have between 4 and 6 of them blasting everything in sight, stags,young bucks,hinds,fawns

brocdubh

J. Ramone wrote: »

Taxable anyway;)

This kind of thing is not new. I know a farmer who was touted by his forestry consultant on behalf of an outfit with a refrigerated truck who would arrange for the out of season/lamping permits.

i think this how they get a lot of their info from, one of them works for a certain forestry company !

brocdubh

these characters are based between listowel and ballylongford area and they have another base down in ballysaggartmore in waterford according to my info,most of what they shoot goes to a "greyhound man" but their head man is selling venison from a cold room at the back of his house,three of their number cruise around different areas with a fist full of paperwork and call to landowners telling them that their neighbours have signed up,next thing they arrive in force and shoot everything,stags,bucks,hinds, fawns

medicman

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

Medicman, I know 2 members of AGS living in that #area# - it would be no harm to have a word. You probably know their houses if you shoot there;)
Rs
P.

yep, talking to everyone we know, and even those we dont, this has to be stamped out FAST, get their licences and rifles taken off them by the garda, this is what is needed.
As hunters countrywide, we should all be looking out for this type of slaughter, as thats what it is, no mistake, they are not hunters, just shooting anything that moves, the way they do shoot, its only a matter of time before livestock is shot or god forbid, someone/farmer walking along.

pedroeibar1

If Broc dubh knows the name of the guy selling from his house, it would be no harm to check to see if he had a dealers license - have a look at the Act first, http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1976/en/act/pub/0039/sec0048.html#zza39y1976s48 If he is not registerd, report him.
In any event a call to the Dept of AG & Food (or whatever has that function now) should be made - see if he is compliant with H & S regs. (they are really onerous for food cos) and a call to the Revenue should also be made;)

My understanding of business law is that their IWFCCS has no legal standing as it is neither a registered partnership nor a company - it is simply an unregistered business name being used by a group of people who should be named on any document. Those individuals are collectively sole traders and as such are individually liable. My guess also is that the Companies Registrar would refuse such a name as it could be confused with the Irish Wildlife and Forestry Commission - no doubt what these gougers intend in the first place!
If anyone is bothered to spend a tenner or so at www.cro.ie they could take the name and register it!:D:D
P.

brocdubh

medicman wrote: »

yep, talking to everyone we know, and even those we dont, this has to be stamped out FAST, get their licences and rifles taken off them by the garda, this is what is needed.
As hunters countrywide, we should all be looking out for this type of slaughter, as thats what it is, no mistake, they are not hunters, just shooting anything that moves, the way they do shoot, its only a matter of time before livestock is shot or god forbid, someone/farmer walking along.

spent a couple of hours in my local gun dealers yesterday, these gougers are well known to him, one of them, by his own admission shot 138 deer alone last season, apparently they started as a genuine club a number of years ago and the usual happened money,money,money the decent shooters left the club to the gouger element took over,i was also tipped off to expect "a visit" from two of their number very shortly,hope they are that stupid !!!!!!!

brocdubh

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

If Broc dubh knows the name of the guy selling from his house, it would be no harm to check to see if he had a dealers license - have a look at the Act first, http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1976/en/act/pub/0039/sec0048.html#zza39y1976s48 If he is not registerd, report him.
In any event a call to the Dept of AG & Food (or whatever has that function now) should be made - see if he is compliant with H & S regs. (they are really onerous for food cos) and a call to the Revenue should also be made;)

My understanding of business law is that their IWFCCS has no legal standing as it is neither a registered partnership nor a company - it is simply an unregistered business name being used by a group of people who should be named on any document. Those individuals are collectively sole traders and as such are individually liable. My guess also is that the Companies Registrar would refuse such a name as it could be confused with the Irish Wildlife and Forestry Commission - no doubt what these gougers intend in the first place!
If anyone is bothered to spend a tenner or so at www.cro.ie they could take the name and register it!:D:D
P.

your 110% right, i was in my local gun dealers yesterday, he had one of their old "membership cards" strikingly similer to irish wildlife i d card,i think thats how they are operating in a lot of areas,some people may believe that they are the irish wildlife and forestry service,to be honest i did at first.

medicman

brocdubh wrote: »

spent a couple of hours in my local gun dealers yesterday, these gougers are well known to him, one of them, by his own admission shot 138 deer alone last season, apparently they started as a genuine club a number of years ago and the usual happened money,money,money the decent shooters left the club to the gouger element took over,i was also tipped off to expect "a visit" from two of their number very shortly,hope they are that stupid !!!!!!!

if they do vist you, make sure you have a witness or 2 with you, also for safety sake.

Grizzly 45

brocdubh wrote: »

this crowd are selling venison from a cold room in a back yard

Intresting..No doubt they have all the revelant Health and saftey permits and food handling requirements in place from local and national health authorthies,when selling a foodstuff for human consumption????????????

brocdubh

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Intresting..No doubt they have all the revelant Health and saftey permits and food handling requirements in place from local and national health authorthies,when selling a foodstuff for human consumption????????????

the guy doing the selling does most definately not have any form of cerification of any kind,he`s got an old cold room in his back yard.

brocdubh

medicman wrote: »

if they do vist you, make sure you have a witness or 2 with you, also for safety sake.

thanks,if they do call to my house they will be on camera,i work in the security industry and i`m well used to being threatened, don`t worry me in the slightest,i`m clever enough to let them make the first move,black badger by name,black badger by nature!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Grizzly 45

Well, if you know where the guy is and that he is selling the meat out of his back yard for wont of a better word,and its going into the human food chain.I'm sure the food standards authorithy would be intrested,not to mind the local council that somone is running a butchering operation without the proper permits etc from a private residence?As well as the HSA,local and national media etc,that there is some dubious chacter possibly supplying a very expensive dinner that you might be eating this Xmas from less than hygenic premisis and possible illegally taken venison??

For my money this is where the the EU and UK have got it right in selling game and liscensing etc.If you want to sell into the food chain,it has got to be done properly and hygenically.One reason I wont eat game in a resturant..No idea who or how it was butcherd out.
You personally,should be able as a hunter to sell the game straight to a resturant,and cut out the middleman who proably has less qualifications to sell it further than you do.In Germany as a qualified hunter ,you can sell straight to a resturant,as there is a perfect track back.Local hunter,local resaturant.Simple:).Cant see why we cant do the same here.

brocdubh

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Well, if you know where the guy is and that he is selling the meat out of his back yard for wont of a better word,and its going into the human food chain.I'm sure the food standards authorithy would be intrested,not to mind the local council that somone is running a butchering operation without the proper permits etc from a private residence?As well as the HSA,local and national media etc,that there is some dubious chacter possibly supplying a very expensive dinner that you might be eating this Xmas from less than hygenic premisis and possible illegally taken venison??

For my money this is where the the EU and UK have got it right in selling game and liscensing etc.If you want to sell into the food chain,it has got to be done properly and hygenically.One reason I wont eat game in a resturant..No idea who or how it was butcherd out.
You personally,should be able as a hunter to sell the game straight to a resturant,and cut out the middleman who proably has less qualifications to sell it further than you do.In Germany as a qualified hunter ,you can sell straight to a resturant,as there is a perfect track back.Local hunter,local resaturant.Simple:).Cant see why we cant do the same here.

our german comrades seem to have their act together, i`m getting my facts together about these gougers before i make a complaint to the relevant authorities, i managed to track down a former comrade of theirs, he went out with them once just after getting his licence, as soon as lamps were produced he got into his car and went home, he tells me that they are also known to use nets between gates as well and chances are better than average that they will be around the ballysaggert/ballyduff/lismore area this weekend

brocdubh

medicman wrote: »

down on one of our permissions last week down kenmare way, received a call from the farmer, his next door neighbour had a guy shooting 18 deer in 1 day, male, female and calf's for dog food, might be the same guys, i was not impressed, i asked my farmer to keep a lookout and get the reg of the van next time and i will contact the garda and npws about same. we informed our farmer that it was against the law to shoot like that this time season, but he stated that his next door neighbour was unaware of the shooting as he was out until his next door neighbour told him a few days later, just remember next door is a misnomer, next door is 1-2 klicks away.

anyway, we will be keeping a sharp eye out for these b******s and hope to catch them in the act.

just talked to a friend of mine from nth kerry, they put a rumour around a while back that they"worked him over" don`t think so somehow:D, anyway he describes their head man as a "emaciated english pikey" who calls everyone "mate"he gave me the phone numbers they have on their vehicles,they check out as mid west forestry,forestry services and a private mobile number and they have told some landowners that they "work for the government"the plot thickens

tfox

Only just read this thread now. Really hope someone with the relevant info on these fly-by-nights passes it on to the authorities and they get stopped as soon as !! Heard similar stories round the midlands, one forestry contractor told me he'd heard of lads going out lamping at night shooting 20/30 animals and straight down to the dealers with the trailer load in the morning !! These are not sporting hunters, out just to make a quick buck !! I'm not gonna pretend I dont send my fair share of meat to the dealers but it is just a bonus, helps cover fuel, running the cold room etc, but not in a million days stalking would I turn a profit !!

brocdubh

tfox wrote: »

Only just read this thread now. Really hope someone with the relevant info on these fly-by-nights passes it on to the authorities and they get stopped as soon as !! Heard similar stories round the midlands, one forestry contractor told me he'd heard of lads going out lamping at night shooting 20/30 animals and straight down to the dealers with the trailer load in the morning !! These are not sporting hunters, out just to make a quick buck !! I'm not gonna pretend I dont send my fair share of meat to the dealers but it is just a bonus, helps cover fuel, running the cold room etc, but not in a million days stalking would I turn a profit !!

totally agree with you on that,i have no problem with anyone making a few euro,what really gets me is the wholesale slaughter and them breaking every rule in the book and getting away with it and to cap it all, the attitude we`re here now,f....off locals or anyone else,the problem is they will attract they attention of the law and some innocent will carry the can,i was out foxing over the weekend,the lady who owns the land said"i saw the lamp in the glen,did you get a deer or two"touche

brocdubh

tfox wrote: »

Only just read this thread now. Really hope someone with the relevant info on these fly-by-nights passes it on to the authorities and they get stopped as soon as !! Heard similar stories round the midlands, one forestry contractor told me he'd heard of lads going out lamping at night shooting 20/30 animals and straight down to the dealers with the trailer load in the morning !! These are not sporting hunters, out just to make a quick buck !! I'm not gonna pretend I dont send my fair share of meat to the dealers but it is just a bonus, helps cover fuel, running the cold room etc, but not in a million days stalking would I turn a profit !!

our lovely secretary has been banging away at her keyboard, she, has dug up all the relevant regulation about passing venison into the human food chain, a few well appointed letters have been sent to the local county council,food standards safety authority etc i will keep you posted as to what happens, most of all thanks to an ex member of "club"who filled me in with more than one piece of verifiable information

vixdname

I'm not lucky enough to have a deer hunting license \ permissions YET - but just wanted to say fair play to ye lads - ye're doing a great job at protecting ye're lands and ye're sport in general - Its scumbags like these that antis will use and label them as "Conventional Deer Hunters" when they're anything but - well done, put the pressure on them and get them stamped out the legal way.

meathstevie

brocdubh, take a bow. Now let's hope the appropriate authorities follow up on it. I for one would love to see prosecutions.

brocdubh

vixdname wrote: »

I'm not lucky enough to have a deer hunting license \ permissions YET - but just wanted to say fair play to ye lads - ye're doing a great job at protecting ye're lands and ye're sport in general - Its scumbags like these that antis will use and label them as "Conventional Deer Hunters" when they're anything but - well done, put the pressure on them and get them stamped out the legal way.

thanks i wish you luck with your licence and permissions,to quote a sniper marksman,"a good shooter is easy to define,he knows when to shoot,a better shooter knows when not to shoot"

brocdubh

meathstevie wrote: »

brocdubh, take a bow. Now let's hope the appropriate authorities follow up on it. I for one would love to see prosecutions.

they turned up at a farmers door over the weekend demanding access over his land to a forestry,they claimed they had been informed by the gardi that deer from the forestry had caused accidents on the road,he told them that he had already been contacted by south west forestry and his stockman had a npaw deer licence and that they were not welcome on his land,my friend who contacted me about this knows these characters too well.

brocdubh

i heard from a friend that the"iwfcss"are back in action,apparently some gouger who fits the description of their"founder and chairman"approached two stalkers in the east waterford area claiming he was a "irish wildlife ranger" and demanded to examine their guns and licences,he was informed that he was not a ranger and very nicely he was told to F...k off and informed he was in fact trespassing ,the two stalkers phoned the gardi and managed to get his reg number,so we will see what happens.
even after all the work that has been done on these gougers,nothing has been done.

poulo6.5

brocdubh wrote: »

i heard from a friend that the"iwfcss"are back in action,apparently some gouger who fits the description of their"founder and chairman"approached two stalkers in the east waterford area claiming he was a "irish wildlife ranger" and demanded to examine their guns and licences,he was informed that he was not a ranger and very nicely he was told to F...k off and informed he was in fact trespassing ,the two stalkers phoned the gardi and managed to get his reg number,so we will see what happens.
even after all the work that has been done on these gougers,nothing has been done.

some neck on that lad. i have not seen any sign of anyone like that on my patch in tip or kerry

kildare.17hmr

thats bloody shockin, at least the 2 lads had the right idea and told him to f**k off, if any1 not drivin a garda car asks to "inspect" my firearm they will be told the same untill im sure who they are. id say there would be some that would just hand them over no questions asked

brocdubh

poulo6.5 wrote: »

some neck on that lad. i have not seen any sign of anyone like that on my patch in tip or kerry

they are based in the north kerry area,most you hear about them around the eastcork/waterford area they have been seen around the kenmare to waterville area earlier in the season.
the head man is a nasty piece of work,i heard a rumour that they "worked over" a partially disabled man a couple of months back who stood up to them

poulo6.5

brocdubh wrote: »

they are based in the north kerry area,most you hear about them around the eastcork/waterford area they have been seen around the kenmare to waterville area earlier in the season.
the head man is a nasty piece of work,i heard a rumour that they "worked over" a partially disabled man a couple of months back who stood up to them

do you know how many of them there are. where they are from and so on. if i ever come across any one like that i will let you know

jay.b

well done brocdubh more power to ya! im hoping to get my deer hunting licence for next season.but sounds like these guys are going to spoil it for everyone! good to see someone taking a stand!

One shot on kill

if noting is done every one should get together and organise or own foresrty protection and deer protection group and have a gentle word

but whos to say there not on boards reading and lookin for hot spots

Hondata92

brocdubh wrote: »

they are based in the north kerry area,most you hear about them around the eastcork/waterford area they have been seen around the kenmare to waterville area earlier in the season.
the head man is a nasty piece of work,i heard a rumour that they "worked over" a partially disabled man a couple of months back who stood up to them

By all accounts they are nothing more than scumbags, these are the people making everything harder for the genuine shooter.

The guards and NPWS in some cases seem to drag their feet instead of just going out and dealing with the likes of these criminals.

Personally i think media attention would stop them very quick and possibly give the honest genuine deer shooter a chance. How many farmers/land owners would be willing to give permission after the likes of these c**ts.

The likes of the farmers journal, irish shooters digest, some uk based magazines and publicity by the IFA as well as others would surely make them more aware and put pressure on the authorities to shut them down and convict them

meathstevie

Reading throught the posts there appears to be a hint of attempted fraud by misrepresentation as well. Asking people to hand over a gun saying you're a ranger while you aren't is quite a serious offence.