RTE and High Definition

Bullseye1

Have RTE indicated when they will be broadcasting in HD? They have alot of content especially from the US which is Hdef native.

The Cush

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Have RTE indicated when they will be broadcasting in HD?

No.

Discussed here previously.

Mr McBoatface

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Have RTE indicated when they will be broadcasting in HD? They have alot of content especially from the US which is Hdef native.

The Technical launch of service is only a few weeks away and there isn't even a public awareness campaign or a list of certified STB's issued by RTE/RTENL, never mind any indication of when/what and how much HD programming to expect.

For some spectacled time-lines see Watty's post here - http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68450669&postcount=477. Some excellent info provided by Watty who really knows his stuff.

watty

We might have 4 or 5 HD channels by 2013 to 2014.

It's early days yet.

FREETV

jobyrne30 wrote: »

The Technical launch of service is only a few weeks away and there isn't even a public awareness campaign or a list of certified STB's issued by RTE/RTENL, never mind any indication of when/what and how much HD programming to expect.

For some spectacled time-lines see Watty's post here - http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68450669&postcount=477. Some excellent info provided by Watty who really knows his stuff.

31 Oct is very soon but as you said no information as of yet and as usual everything in this country is done at the very last minute.

watty

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68531268&postcount=8

Don't expect an overnight change on 31st OCtober 2010 other that what we have being "official".
Nov 2010 to April 2011 period should see Publicity increased and upgrades to Soarview.

End of December should see the nail biting Proton Launch of Ka-Sat. If it works, RTE will be renting space on it for a copy of Saorview. It also will give cheaper Two Way Satellite for those that can't get Broadband.

lgs 4

watty wrote: »

We might have 4 or 5 HD channels by 2013 to 2014.

It's early days yet.

and if you have freesat even more HD channles and if you can freeview my personal feeling happy days
FREE HD
FOR
ALL

watty

RTE say you should get Freesat.

Read the link!

Debate debates.oireachtas.ie

Mr. Conor Hayes:
The UK channels are available under an approach called Freesat, which is broadcast by a company owned by the BBC and ITV. They broadcast these channels in the clear over Ireland using a wide-band satellite operating in the KU band. RTE’s satellite option is a narrow-band satellite operating in the Ka band. One cannot get them on the same satellite. In the US, there are hybrid dishes available and householders can receive Ka band and Ku band signals. That is technically feasible and there are some 22 million households in the US using it. The cost of the dish is approximately $65.

Bob_Harris

Just read this remark from the above link again

Mr. Conor Hayes wrote:

I am biased, as I have been trying out different technologies at home. I have a high definition television on which I watched some of the BBC’s coverage of the World Cup, although I turned down the volume. I swapped between it and our test DTT service and the quality of the RTE picture on DTT was better than the BBC’s high definition picture. The satellite picture will be good, but it will be better on DTT.

He must have been receiving some secret RTE2 HD stream at the time, otherwise his bias to RTE has blinded him.

Sam Russell

Bob_Harris wrote: »

Just read this remark from the above link again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Conor Hayes
I am biased, as I have been trying out different technologies at home. I have a high definition television on which I watched some of the BBC’s coverage of the World Cup, although I turned down the volume. I swapped between it and our test DTT service and the quality of the RTE picture on DTT was better than the BBC’s high definition picture. The satellite picture will be good, but it will be better on DTT.


He must have been receiving some secret RTE2 HD stream at the time, otherwise his bias to RTE has blinded him.

He did not say where he got the BBC signal from - maybe it was a poor cable signal. Also, he may have a very high grade receiver for RTE2.

Or more likely,he didn't know what he was talking about.
On BBC HD you could see individual players strands of hair...
On 576 rte2,you cannot.

He was trying to impress the t.d's with a line which was rubbish.

marclt

Whilst you can give him a little credit for making an error, if he suggested something he knew was wrong then that is a different story!

Best not say to much more on that!

10000maniacs

watty wrote: »

.

It's early days yet.

I would have agreed with you if it was 1999.:)

lgs 4

most of programs on rte 1 and rte 2 are us which are high def and most of the uk programs within the last two years are high def, its just home made programs need hd camera,s and hd facility, which have come down cost in the last year FREE HD FOR ALL

Machinehead

Change to RTÉ NL HD test channel today. RTÉ NL test card removed & replaced by coloured bars. HD video not showing. Anyone know of any inpending changes? I myself was hoping that RTÉ might feed thru the champions league game tonight as a test. No joy there:(

Gipo3

I seen that the picture froze earlier on about six i think

maclek

I'm getting HD on the RTE NL test channel. Video of horses in fields and windmills. Very high quality picture.

The Cush

maclek wrote: »

I'm getting HD on the RTE NL test channel. Video of horses in fields and windmills. Very high quality picture.

As have we all since the 23rd Sept.

maclek

I looked for a existing thread on it but missed that one, page 29 of some random thread! Ah well, thanks for pointing it out.

The Cush

maclek wrote: »

I looked for a existing thread on it ...

There was a thread started later that day - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056040926

The Cush

From today's Irish Times

RTÉ could be left high and dry
Fri, Nov 05, 2010

The broadcaster has lost ground in the move to HD TV and the downturn means it could be a long time before it catches up. IAN CAMPBELL reports

TWO WEEKS ago, UTV became the first broadcaster in Ireland to launch a high-definition (HD) television service. Two days ago, the BBC launched BBC One as a dedicated HD channel in the UK.

Anyone expecting RTÉ to be hot on their heels will be disappointed. Director of TV operations John Hunt admits the State broadcaster is between six and eight years away from launching similar services.

Upgrading RTÉ’s infrastructure to support HD channels would cost over €25 million, money that is simply not available to the cash-strapped broadcaster.

“We will get to a tipping point when it has to become a multimillion investment and we will have to bite the bullet, but, because of the current financial situation, we’re not there at that moment,” says Hunt.

Sky and UPC are already transmitting HD channels but the uptake has not been significant enough to make a difference to RTÉ viewing figures, according to Hunt. He knows it is a situation that can change.

“At the moment, a lot of people have HD TVs but they are not watching any HD content. It has gone beyond the early days of adoption but it has not become business critical to us yet,” he says.

As HD becomes more popular, RTÉ runs the risk of people switching over when there’s a choice. Even football, a stalwart of the prime-time RTÉ schedule, could lose out to British coverage because of inferior picture quality.

“That is a risk that has always concerned me,” says Hunt. “With RTÉ not having HD TV, people could turn to competitors. At the moment we have the edge. If it’s an Irish match, they prefer to watch it with an Irish broadcaster and we do well because our analysts are Irish and give a different perspective to Sky and BBC.”

Is there pressure from advertisers for the improved picture quality?

“I wouldn’t call it pressure but there are occasional inquiries about when we’re going to HD,” he says. “As it becomes more mainstream, some advertisers might push for it but right now they want the biggest audience and RTÉ gives them that by a long way.”

Hunt believes widespread adoption of HD is some way off. Most new televisions are HD- enabled but that doesn’t mean people are watching HD content. “Some people bought them and probably still don’t understand that they’re not getting HD TV. While it’s frustrating that the market has gone ahead of us, I don’t think there is a large HD audience in Ireland at the moment. My ‘guestimate’ is that the Sky service is only watched in about 100,000 homes.”

While Sky never reveals subscriber figures, Sky Ireland director Mark Deering claims one in five customers pay the €15 extra for the 14 HD channels on its Sky+ HD service. He said the take-up in the UK was closer to one in three.

“It would be fair to suggest that we are trailing the UK a little. One of the reasons for this is the absence of indigenous content from RTÉ or TV3. In the UK, the five terrestrial broadcasters all have HD channels.”

In the short term, RTÉ will take incremental steps towards HD, using Saorview, the free-to-air digital terrestrial television (DTT) network. Trials have begun of the service, which covers 90 per cent of the population, transmitting RTÉ and TV3 programming.

For the one million viewers who currently watch analogue terrestrial TV, Saorview will be the free-to-air replacement. People have two years to upgrade their television sets to receive the digital signal before the analogue service is switched off at the end of 2012.

A full DTT service is expected to launch early next year but set-top boxes may be available before Christmas. Hunt said they will cost a little more than their Freeview equivalents in the UK which start at about £30 (€34).

Although both systems carry DTT, they are not compatible. “Every country is doing its own thing so every set-top box is slightly different. The time you get into DTT determines the level of technology you adopt,” says Hunt.

Saorview uses the MPeg-4 standard and will carry HD broadcasts. RTÉ has proposed a HD channel that is pending a review by the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland. The plan is to show “HD light” coverage of live sporting events such as GAA matches, Six Nations rugby and international football.

HD outside broadcast facilities will make it possible to transmit “whistle-to-whistle” HD, but studio and recorded content would remain standard definition.

The priority is to provide some HD programming for Saorview but the content will almost certainly find its way onto Sky and UPC as the broadcaster looks to “maximise the investment”.

RTÉ is rebuilding and re-engineering studios to be HD-capable and drawing up a business case to further develop the production facilities.

The company recently invested in the latest Sony HD cameras and a tender is under way to begin a migration to a tapeless production environment, but transmitting HD-recorded material or studio-based content will be impossible until a complete HD upgrade takes place.

The reality is a full-blown RTÉ HD service will only come with the completion of the purpose-built building planned for the Donnybrook site. Construction is not expected to begin before 2012.

“We should be at the forefront of technology and offering Irish viewers the best that’s out there but that’s not possible at the moment, and the current financial situation means we are constantly reviewing our plans,” says Hunt.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2010/1105/1224282715859.html

watty

That's why they are only talking about an RTE 2HD Lite. But they have bought the Playout gear. So there will be occasional HD

The article is a bit misleading as there is a lot of HD output possible without the €25M new complex. This slightly smacks of propaganda to get sympathy, planning approvals and money from somewhere.

Sam Russell

Also the writer does not understand the subject.
Sky will not be getting RTE HD in the short term.
RTE gets the major audience within the republic, whether it is HD or not.
RTE HD content will not be available in SD on the Saorview platform.

Machinehead

I am open to correction here, but maybe the lower uptake of Sky HD services here is due to the fact that here they have a €15pm extra charge, whereas in the UK the HD services incur no extra charge on the monthly subscription.

JDxtra

In the UK, you will get BBC HD, BBC 1 HD, Channel 4 HD, Channel 5 HD & ITV 1 HD (excl. NI) on the EPG without the HD pack. In Ireland, you will just get BBC HD.

The HD pack charge in the UK is currently £10 (€11.52) per month. We pay €15. You also get ITV 2 HD (and soon ITV 3 HD & ITV 4 HD) with the HD pack in the UK.

Luxe HD is not worth mentioning.

cartman51773

your right there JDExtra we pay the full €15 and loose out on at least 9 hd channels that they get in the uk and we dont get them here. sky know what they are doing though

jamescc

just been reading from this and rte might not be going hd for a few years
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2010/1105/1224282715859.html:confused:

Mr McBoatface

jamescc wrote: »

just been reading from this and rte might not be going hd for a few years
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2010/1105/1224282715859.html:confused:

That's what the guys are discussing a few posts above. Don't believe anything you read in a newspaper, the real experts are here on boards.:)

pigeon1916

Sam Russell wrote: »

Also the writer does not understand the subject.
Sky will not be getting RTE HD in the short term.
RTE gets the major audience within the republic, whether it is HD or not.
RTE HD content will not be available in SD on the Saorview platform.

How do you know that they will not have a separate RTE HD channel for live sporting events and also show them in SD. ?

Does anyone have the proposed services list that was sent into the BAI.

from what I have been reading, at the moment they have a licence from the BAI to show the current services and they have sent in a proposal to the BAI to add to the current services.

http://www.rte.ie/saorview/channels.html

I thought that the article was interesting enough, Thanks to The Cush for posting it.

Mr McBoatface

pigeon1916 wrote: »

How do you know that they will not have a separate RTE HD channel for live sporting events and also show them in SD. ?

Does anyone have the proposed services list that was sent into the BAI.

from what I have been reading, at the moment they have a licence from the BAI to show the current services and they have sent in a proposal to the BAI to add to the current services.

http://www.rte.ie/saorview/channels.html

I thought that the article was interesting enough, Thanks to The Cush for posting it.

Most of this if not all the information was made public or confirmed when Conor Hayes from RTÉ meet the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Communciations, Energy and Natural Resources on the July 7 2010.

See the opening statement to the committy - http://www.techtir.ie/sites/default/files/JOCC20100714.doc

Plenty more information and well grounded speculation all put together nicely on Watty's web site - http://www.techtir.ie/saortv.

The Cush

pigeon1916 wrote: »

How do you know that they will not have a separate RTE HD channel for live sporting events and also show them in SD. ?

Follow the link below to a previous discussion on RTÉ's plans for "RTÉ 2 HD light"

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056021365

pigeon1916

jobyrne30 wrote: »

Most of this if not all the information was made public or confirmed when Conor Hayes from RTÉ meet the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Communciations, Energy and Natural Resources on the July 7 2010.

See the opening statement to the committy - http://www.techtir.ie/sites/default/files/JOCC20100714.doc

Plenty more information and well grounded speculation all put together nicely on Watty's web site - http://www.techtir.ie/saortv.

The Cush wrote: »

Follow the link below to a previous discussion on RTÉ's plans for "RTÉ 2 HD light"

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056021365

Thanks

watty

It's also possible that some sports events (HD?) may only be visible via MHEG5 menu, without repeated manual scans, as per BBC Wimbledon on Freesat, Freeview and Sky.

Sam Russell

pigeon1916 wrote: »

How do you know that they will not have a separate RTE HD channel for live sporting events and also show them in SD. ?

Does anyone have the proposed services list that was sent into the BAI.

from what I have been reading, at the moment they have a licence from the BAI to show the current services and they have sent in a proposal to the BAI to add to the current services.

http://www.rte.ie/saorview/channels.html

I thought that the article was interesting enough, Thanks to The Cush for posting it.

Read the article. RTE NL have been broadcasting DTT since 1st Aug 2008, with more or less the current standard of MPEG4. It followed on from a trial run by BT for the previous two years using MPEG2 and one MPEG4 stream. RTE have said that they will be broadcasting some content on RTE2 in HD. They have tendered for an HD playout system for RTE2. The spec for Saorview has mandatory items, one of which is HD. Therefor no simulcast of SD and HD.

The interview was to get the idea that RTE needs €25million to get the infrastructure for HD in Donnybrook into the public consiousness.

Sky do not pay RTE for the pictures, nor do RTE pay Sky, so RTE will not gain from Sky having HD content. With two muxes, RTE will be able to up the bitrate to give 720 resolution on both channels in SD so giving excellent picture quality.

Much is in the public domain to see through this article.

watty

Near 100% Sam Russell
No 720 though.
it's 1080i
The 720 is OK for people used to 480i and that suffer 3:2 pull down artefact on Film transfers (North America and Japan). But not in Europe where basic TV is 576i

There simply isn't really the space to simultaneously have SD and HD, not even with 2nd Mux as RTE envisage at some stage all the 4 main channels in HD. Even TV3 has HD plans.
We have no idea if it's 2011, 2012, 2013 or 2014. Possible an extra HD channel each year

Dave_Dublin

The Cush wrote: »

While Sky never reveals subscriber figures, Sky Ireland director Mark Deering claims one in five customers pay the €15 extra for the 14 HD channels on its Sky+ HD service.

I have 50 HD channels available on my TV (2 through "other channels") -- certainly not 14 as mentioned in this article . . .

If non-Sky customers were reading this they'd certainly think we were stupid for paying €15 extra for 14 channels !

Sam Russell

watty wrote: »

Near 100% Sam Russell
No 720 though.
it's 1080i
The 720 is OK for people used to 480i and that suffer 3:2 pull down artefact on Film transfers (North America and Japan). But not in Europe where basic TV is 576i

There simply isn't really the space to simultaneously have SD and HD, not even with 2nd Mux as RTE envisage at some stage all the 4 main channels in HD. Even TV3 has HD plans.
We have no idea if it's 2011, 2012, 2013 or 2014. Possible an extra HD channel each year

I never suggested that RTE would simulcast any channels. In fact I said it was never envisaged. My point about 720 is that RTE could broadcast all their SD material in 720 as they have enough bitrate to do so. They were doing this on RTE2 during the tests. The PQ is not significantly different between that and HD for most viewers, as the normal TV size is less than 40 inches, particularly if the HD is sqeezed, as the BBC HD is at the moment.

RTE have plans for RTE2 as they have already looked for tenders for the HD playout system.

TV3 may have plans for HD, but we have yet to see WS from them, lets see that first. They were only dragged kicking and screaming into the DTT age. By the way, would they expect HD distribution to cost the same as SD?

watty

You mean, 720 x 576..
Sorry I thought you meant xxxx X 720 lines.

the HD is Anamorphic 1440 x 1080
Square pixel HD is 1920 x 1080

True 4:3 or real Anamorhpic 16:9 is 768 x 576, but the 720, 704 and 544 resolutions chosen to suit US market of 480 lines. where square pixel 4:3 or anamorphic 16:9 is 640x480 and square pixel WS is about 854 x 480 (WVGA LCD panels are 800 x480)

Analogue PAL horizontal 4:3 resolution is not anything like 768. 544 would be very good if down sampled from 1440 x 720 or 1920 x 1080.

I'd argue that 544 x 576 is fine for 4:3 material but WS really needs 704 x 576 or 720 x576.

I don't see there being spare bit rate to allow 720x576 on all SD and 1920x1080 on all HD unless there are 3 x PSB mux.
HD will very likely be 1440 x 1080 as on UK terrestrial, but within a few years all the 4 main channels and maybe the film channel will be that. The SD channels will likely be 544 x576.

Distribution cost is based on bitrate. TV3 will not want to pay for 720x 576 if they can pay for 544x576! HD will likely cost x3 more as it's much more bit rate.

Let's hope they are not allowed 384x576 or 384 x288 (both supported resolutions used on Freeview/Freesat/Sky for Interactive feed video streams) for main channels!
This is why the MHEG5 is important. Without it hidden "interactive content" video streams such as 384x 576 or 384 x 288 or 240 x 192 will not be useful.

Sam Russell

A point that I have made before is that digital passes control of the picture quality from physics to the engineer. In analogue, the capture of the image is done as well as can be, as is every part of the transmission chain, but at every point, noise and distortion is introduced. Once the signal is digitised, the signal quality is under the contol of the enginers (and bean counters) and there are choices the throw quality out in exchange for extra capacity.

Whereas digital can mean much greater quality, it can be used otherwise.

watty

UK DAB being a classic example. Too many stations per mux.

Sam Russell

@Watty
If the choice was HD or SD for the same bit rate, would the PQ be better with the SD picture? Say would BBC HD be better if they used that bandwidth for a maxed SD signal?

watty

Not as simple as that. Above certain bit rate you get no improvement.
A slowly changing scene, or a static scene with only one part changing needs much lower bit rate for "perfect" picture.

HD BBC on a 48" TV will look better than SD BBC on a 48" TV, provided the HD bit rate is "enough".

Sam Russell

watty wrote: »

Not as simple as that. Above certain bit rate you get no improvement.
A slowly changing scene, or a static scene with only one part changing needs much lower bit rate for "perfect" picture.

HD BBC on a 48" TV will look better than SD BBC on a 48" TV, provided the HD bit rate is "enough".

In normal programme material, on a 40 inch TV, would the BBC bitrate of 3mb/s be better as a 720i SD transmission, or a 1080i HD transmission, say a rugby or soccer match?

watty

Do you mean 720 x 576i?
720i isn't used anywhere. 1440 x720p is a valid resolution

Also UK only uses MPEG4 for HD and MPEG2 for SD. 3Mbps of good MPEG4 today is about 6Mbps to 7Mbps of MPEG2 for same quality, if not maybe more now.

dots across x lines high.

Also the BBC SD and HD are NOT fixed bit rates. It varies rapidly with program content.
VBR, not CBR.

DVB resolutions in Europe (not all these are valid for DVDs)
720x576, 704x576, 544x576 and 360x 576 is all 576i
384 x 288, and 260 x 288 are line doubled to 576i

1920 x1080, 1440x1080 is 1080i

1440 x720p is used mainly in USA. Not used on European Cable, Terrestrial or Satellite AFAIK.

DVDs can play in 576i or 576p
BD (blueRay) can play in 1080i or 1080p, The 720p mode involves re-sampling.

Johnmb

watty wrote: »

This is why the MHEG5 is important. Without it hidden "interactive content" video streams such as 384x 576 or 384 x 288 or 240 x 192 will not be useful.

This may have an obvious answer that I'm missing, but I'll ask in any case. From what I've read, MHEG5 is not only Open Source, it is license free, and has no known infringements on anyone's IP. So how come everyone isn't including it in their receivers? The UK are using it, and they are a big market, so you'd think the likes of Technomate, etc would be either including it in their receivers, or at least have a patch available to add it.
Also, on satellite, while the red button doesn't work on the BBC, I can scan in the individual streams that are showing programs (alas, no text though), will that be possible on the terrestrial feeds if/when they start streaming programs in the background?

watty

If you do that on satellite you will find distorted and mosaic video streams that are not correctly displayed.

Johnmb

watty wrote: »

If you do that on satellite you will find distorted and mosaic video streams that are not correctly displayed.

I have the BBC streams as clear as they ever were on the Sky Box. The channel names are Stream-0 to Stream-6. Currently they are showing Final Score, BBC Sport News, Rowing, Rugby (Ireland v S.A.), Elton John in a concert, blank, the first page mosaic that would be the first Sports Interactive page if it was accessed via the red button on a Sky box. It is actually handier this way as I can flick between channels a lot easier than having to exit and re-enter the red button services.

Gerry Wicklow

@ Johnmb
As well as those streams there are two Mosaic streams. On the 6Xpanel stream you can switch between the audio streams for the appropriate image. (weather, news heads, sports heads, oddball news, etc). In the old days when I was foolish enough to pay $ky you could access these directly by red button. Presumably you can still.

Johnmb

Gerry Wicklow wrote: »

@ Johnmb
As well as those streams there are two Mosaic streams. On the 6Xpanel stream you can switch between the audio streams for the appropriate image. (weather, news heads, sports heads, oddball news, etc). In the old days when I was foolish enough to pay $ky you could access these directly by red button. Presumably you can still.

Yep, I had them, but didn't bother saving them. Didn't cop on about being able to switch the audio though. I might give them another try, thanks.

Sam Russell

watty wrote: »

Do you mean 720 x 576i?
720i isn't used anywhere. 1440 x720p is a valid resolution

Also UK only uses MPEG4 for HD and MPEG2 for SD. 3Mbps of good MPEG4 today is about 6Mbps to 7Mbps of MPEG2 for same quality, if not maybe more now.

dots across x lines high.

Also the BBC SD and HD are NOT fixed bit rates. It varies rapidly with program content.
VBR, not CBR.

DVB resolutions in Europe (not all these are valid for DVDs)
720x576, 704x576, 544x576 and 360x 576 is all 576i
384 x 288, and 260 x 288 are line doubled to 576i

1920 x1080, 1440x1080 is 1080i

1440 x720p is used mainly in USA. Not used on European Cable, Terrestrial or Satellite AFAIK.

DVDs can play in 576i or 576p
BD (blueRay) can play in 1080i or 1080p, The 720p mode involves re-sampling.

Let me ask it again.

Comparing 720x576i at 3mbits/sec (for say a soccer or rugby match) at 3mbits/s vs the same programme material at the same bit rate with 1440x1080i, which is the better PQ on a 40 inch set?

watty

but there isn't a constant 3Mbps
Also the UK 720x576i is MPEG2, MPEG2 needs about 2.5 times the bitrate of MPEG4 for same quality, but it's more complicated due to Statistical multiplexing and Variable Bit Rate.

The UK 1440x1080i is MPEG4

It's not a meaningful question. Only DSL VOD/IPTV uses fixed bitrate.

There is obviously some point at which if you reduce the bit rate that the image artefacts are bad and depending on the Peak rate, inability to cope with lots of movement. No broadcaster is going to set the bit rate as low as that except a Shopping channel or budget channel that doesn't do HD.

In my MPEG4 DVB-c transmission tests with best variable bit rate encoders for decent quality I could get the AVERAGE bit rate down to about 1.2Mbps. Lowest bit rate much lower. Peak was about 4Mbps or maybe more occasionally. That was 720 x 576i

37" Wide screen.

HD would need about x4 bit rate on a 65" to 72" screen to be same subjective quality.

So on a 40" to 48", you can in theory drop the quality a bit as the pixel density is higher and you can't see the detail unless you move twice as close.

HD 1440x1080i on a 40" TV set will beat 720x576i unless the bit rate and the encoder is so low that it doesn't work. No-one is going to program that sort of profile.