Provincial football Connacht V Leinster

wicklowwonder

Is Connacht football in a better state then Leinster Football?

Realistically if you take a team like Laois or Westmeath who wouldn't be exactly a heavyweight in Leinster (Kildare, Dublin and Meath - would be in my opinion but thats not the issue) would fancy beating all teams in Connacht. I think Connacht football is the weakest in the country full stop.

really what we need is a Champions League style format to really test teams like Roscommon (Connacht Champions) Against teams like Laois and Westmeath. A Connacht football medal in my opinion is not near as valuable as a Leinster football medal.

What are other peoples opinions?

spider guardian

wicklowwonder wrote: »

Realistically if you take a team like Laois or Westmeath who wouldn't be exactly a heavyweight in Leinster (Kildare, Dublin and Meath - would be in my opinion but thats not the issue) would fancy beating all teams in Connacht. I think Connacht football is the weakest in the country full stop.

really what we need is a Champions League style format to really test teams like Roscommon (Connacht Champions) Against teams like Laois and Westmeath. A Connacht football medal in my opinion is not near as valuable as a Leinster football medal.

What has any team from Leinster achieved in the past 11 years to suggest that the province as a whole is better than Connacht? Since 1999 only one team from each province has won the All-Ireland and one team from Connacht has won the league. Slim pickings from both but nothing to suggest superioity from either side.

You shouldn't use this year's championship as a yardstick to measure the Connacht teams. Mayo and Galway were especially poor against Longford and Wexford, on even a half-decent year they are more than a match for the bigger teams in Leinster. Last year Mayo should have beaten Meath in the quarter-finals and the year before that they were unlucky to lose by a point against Tyrone. Galway have not been performing the last few years but when they get their act together they will be back up there challenging again. Both teams are in transistion but the talent is there within both counties, moreso than the weaker Leinster teams.

Sligo did well this year winning Division 3 and Roscommon made Cork work in the 2nd half of the quarter final.

Whilst I wouldn't say the standard of Connacht is better than Leinster I certainly wouldn't say it is any worse. Matches between teams from both provinces can produce brilliant games, remember the Mayo Dublin semi-final from 2006!

The change in the championship structure certainly has merit but that is another debate.

theoneeyedman

It's hard to argue with any conviction that Leinster is a strong province.One could argue that the dubs won 4(? I think) in a row titles there and made no impact on the All ireland series in that time. Outside of the 3 largely populated counties, i don't believe any of the leinster counties would win a connacht title, or indeed would have won one at any time over the last 10-15 years. Galway and mayo had a lull this year especially but don't get carried away by poor teams playing championship games in croker in front of tv cameras and thinking they are better than they are

Diabhal Beag

So Laois would beat all teams in Connacht? Rubbish in fairness. If you look at this year then Connacht was inferior to Leinster. Galway and Mayo were brutal. Laois are even worse. Westmeath are about the same. It's the same names that win Leinster. Connacht had 3 big stories this year. Roscommon winning Connacht, Sligo beating Galway and Mayo and those two being out-played by smaller teams.

Dublin, Meath and Kildare are better than all Connacht teams at the moment but next season could be a different story.

Mayo have been in 2 All-Irelands this decade. Galway won an All-Ireland. Dublin haven't gotten to a Final. Meath was as good as Leinster got to an All-Ireland in the 2000's.

I'd have to see how the teams fair out next season to see which Province has better teams for the future.

K-9

What has happened in Leinster is the balance of power has swung from Laois and Westmeath over to Kildare and Meath, with Dublin still there obviously. Tbh I can't see Westmeath getting back to where they were and I don't know enough about Laois.

In a league or Qualifier match I'd fancy Galway or Mayo to beat Laois or Westmeath, definitely. Sligo would be tight and Roscommon, not sure, but they are a young up and coming team.

I'd rate Dublin, Kildare and Meath ahead of Connacht teams. After that, I'd say Galway and Mayo are better than the rest of Leinster with Sligo as good as the rest.

Once you go past the top 3 in Leinster, the standard isn't that great. Wexford and Westmeath seem to be on the wane, Louth could be one season wonders, Wicklow, Carlow, Offaly and Longford are limited and Laois under achieve.

League positions, while not definitive, give you a fair idea, with Division 3 and 4 generally being a good bit of the rest.

Galway and Mayo are Division 1 teams, Sligo are now in Div. 2 and Roscommon are the exception to the rule!, being in Div. 4, along with Leitrim.

Only Dublin are in Division 1 but that doesn't mean alot as there isn't much between the top 2 Divisions and Meath, Laois and Kildare are there.

Tbh, I think there isn't as much between the provinces as people make out. Ulster is still the most competitive and Munster do have Limerick and Tipp and Waterford trying their best.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

Wow, I'm suprised that people actually think Connacht football is as strong as Leinster's. Right now we're miles behind them. No one from connacht has gotten past the QF in I dont know how long - 2006?? But I wouldn't be too worried. There's been plenty of connacht bashing threads over on Hogan Stand. Every thing comes around in circles and I'm sure we'll be back contesting for AI's sooner rather than later. In the mean-time I dont think there's much point defending the state of us. I dont even remember the last time a connacht player won an all-star.

Diabhal Beag

Leinster is stronger but Laois or Westmeath wouldn't win Connacht as OP said. The Meaths, Kildares and definitely Dublin would.

unknown13

wicklowwonder wrote: »

Is Connacht football in a better state then Leinster Football?

No, Dublin, Meath and Kildare would be too much for all the Connacht teams.

wicklowwonder wrote: »

Realistically if you take a team like Laois or Westmeath who wouldn't be exactly a heavyweight in Leinster (Kildare, Dublin and Meath - would be in my opinion but thats not the issue) would fancy beating all teams in Connacht. I think Connacht football is the weakest in the country full stop.

The problem with Laois is there consistency, they are a good side if they show up. The matches against Meath showed that. They were good in the first match but terrible in the second match. If a good Laois team showed up I would fancy their chances against any team in Connacht. Westmeath, no, they aren't a great side.

wicklowwonder

just to make this clear I don't want this to turn into a Connacht bashing thread.

Interesting thoughts so far. I do feel Connacht teams have it easier to win an provincial.

Also did some digging in the last 20 years in the Connacht club championship Galway and Mayo clubs have dominated with Roscommon winning two thats it no others. Leinster on the other hand have had winners from Wicklow, Dublin, Carlow, Laois, Kildare and Meath. I actually forgot the dominance Eire Og - Carlow had over Leinster in the 90s!

I think if a county like Wicklow or Carlow were to swap provinces with a sligo or roscommon they would be as successful. As club results have shown over the last 20 years these 2 counties have probably produced better club players than Sligo or roscommon but these players havent the chance on the Leinster County route because of big guns like Meath or Dublin etc. Taking it a step further in the old system a team like Mayo or Galway could be in an All Ireland Final by winning 3 games (Connacht Semi, Connacht Final, AI Semi) Very glad we are not back in those games. Leinster teams could win 3 games and only be in a Leinster Final.

Just a thought I had today which I wanted to share!

K-9

wicklowwonder wrote: »

just to make this clear I don't want this to turn into a Connacht bashing thread.

Interesting thoughts so far. I do feel Connacht teams have it easier to win an provincial.

Also did some digging in the last 20 years in the Connacht club championship Galway and Mayo clubs have dominated with Roscommon winning two thats it no others. Leinster on the other hand have had winners from Wicklow, Dublin, Carlow, Laois, Kildare and Meath. I actually forgot the dominance Eire Og - Carlow had over Leinster in the 90s!

I think if a county like Wicklow or Carlow were to swap provinces with a sligo or roscommon they would be as successful. As club results have shown over the last 20 years these 2 counties have probably produced better club players than Sligo or roscommon but these players havent the chance on the Leinster County route because of big guns like Meath or Dublin etc. Taking it a step further in the old system a team like Mayo or Galway could be in an All Ireland Final by winning 3 games (Connacht Semi, Connacht Final, AI Semi) Very glad we are not back in those games. Leinster teams could win 3 games and only be in a Leinster Final.

Just a thought I had today which I wanted to share!

Good points but with the back door, if a team is good enough they should be making a go of the Qualifiers, Fermanagh being a great example from Ulster. Fair enough, they have gone back again but they punched way above their weight for a few seasons.

Leinster counties haven't been that successful, even with the Qualifiers. Out of the 11 counties competing, 6 got to Quarter or Semi Finals. Not bad, but the rest are far off and of those 6, 3 arguably are in decline.

Offaly are the only one out of them that I remember getting to a Leinster final recently, though as you say, it is harder for weaker counties. Yet in Ulster, all 9 counties have got to Ulster Finals in the last decade and 7 have got Quarter Finals, so it is possible.

With Connacht, Roscommon and Sligo have won the title albeit Roscommon probably a bit lucky with the draw. I wrote Sligo off a few seasons ago and they are still there and Roscommon are on the rise.

Gingy

wicklowwonder wrote: »

Interesting thoughts so far. I do feel Connacht teams have it easier to win an provincial.

Ah come on wicklowwonder, between Cromwell, Famine and emigration Connacht has had it tough over the years, we better give them something easy;)

rossie1977

wicklowwonder wrote: »

Also did some digging in the last 20 years in the Connacht club championship Galway and Mayo clubs have dominated with Roscommon winning two thats it no others. Leinster on the other hand have had winners from Wicklow, Dublin, Carlow, Laois, Kildare and Meath. I actually forgot the dominance Eire Og - Carlow had over Leinster in the 90s!

what relevance has that with anything, i noticed you narrowed it down to the last 20 years to suit your own argument :rolleyes: before that Clan na nGael of roscommon dominated the connaught club scene winning 6 titles in 7 years and yet during that time period 1982-88 roscommon won no senior connaught titles...................

I think if a county like Wicklow or Carlow were to swap provinces with a sligo or roscommon they would be as successful. As club results have shown over the last 20 years these 2 counties have probably produced better club players than Sligo or roscommon but these players havent the chance on the Leinster County route because of big guns like Meath or Dublin etc.

ok; lets start at the top, wicklow/carlow could be as successful as roscommon..........when nowadays?? can't argue, roscommon senior football has been in turmoil this past 7-8 years so being as successful as roscommon today is nothing to brag about

sligo haven't been that successful in connaught at all, 3 titles in their entire history isn't exactly successful

but lets get more to the point here, roscommon were an established division 1 team 7-8 years ago before it all hit off i never remember either wicklow or carlow in division 1 let alone topping that section

rpurfield

THFC wrote: »

Wow, I'm suprised that people actually think Connacht football is as strong as Leinster's. Right now we're miles behind them. No one from connacht has gotten past the QF in I dont know how long - 2006?? But I wouldn't be too worried. There's been plenty of connacht bashing threads over on Hogan Stand. Every thing comes around in circles and I'm sure we'll be back contesting for AI's sooner rather than later. In the mean-time I dont think there's much point defending the state of us. I dont even remember the last time a connacht player won an all-star.

the bit in bold is the bottom line really i think leinster was good this year because we fianlly beat dublin again and louth played some terrifc stuff beating kildare and in the leinster final.even the dublin wexford game and meath and laois were exciting so it felt more open.

Het-Field

The is no comparison. I believe this thread to be rooted in the last decade. I cannot argue that between 2005-2009 Leinster was the weakest province by far. The balance has been redressed, and Leinster are on the up. In fact, Leinster have drawn as close to Ulster as a province as makes no difference. Save for the frame of the goalpost, Kildare would have made it to the All Ireland final at the expense of Down. This would have meant that Leinster sides would have accounted for Down, Tyrone, Derry, Monaghan, Antrim, and Armagh, while the likes of Fermanagh and Dongal were knocked out by fellow Ulstermen. Aside from Down, Cavan were the only side to enjoy any success over Leinster opposition this term.

In spite of Down's run to the final, I would currently rate Ulster as the third strongest province, with Munster on top of the pile. Connaught is nowhere near Leinster's big boys.

K-9

Het-Field wrote: »

The is no comparison. I believe this thread to be rooted in the last decade. I cannot argue that between 2005-2009 Leinster was the weakest province by far. The balance has been redressed, and Leinster are on the up. In fact, Leinster have drawn as close to Ulster as a province as makes no difference. Save for the frame of the goalpost, Kildare would have made it to the All Ireland final at the expense of Down. This would have meant that Leinster sides would have accounted for Down, Tyrone, Derry, Monaghan, Antrim, and Armagh, while the likes of Fermanagh and Dongal were knocked out by fellow Ulstermen. Aside from Down, Cavan were the only side to enjoy any success over Leinster opposition this term.

In spite of Down's run to the final, I would currently rate Ulster as the third strongest province, with Munster on top of the pile. Connaught is nowhere near Leinster's big boys.

Ifs and maybes, somethings never change for Leinster counties.

The point is, while everybody was writing off Ulster after Tyrone lost and some before it, Down where only a kick of a ball away from winning an AI. Tends to be the same people writing Ulster off to.

I'd class Kildare as the best team in Leinster and they should be beating Antrim. They made hard work of it after a draw!

Derry beat Carlow means nothing, Cavan arguably the worst team in Ulster beat an up and coming Wicklow means something, Derry in disarray beat Westmeath but lost to Kildare which tells us something, Down beat Longford and Offaly, Monaghan losing to Kildare no surprise, Dublin beating Tyrone was a massive result but the time to catch them is in a Q/F.

So, even this season in Ulster Leinster match ups,

Ulster 6, Leinster 5.

All that is happened in Leinster is the 3 best teams have changed over the last few years, Ulster still is as competitive as ever.

UrbanSea

Lads I can't agree with ye about Kildare. I'd fancy Sligo,Mayo and Galway to beat Kildare.

Het-Field

K-9 wrote: »

Ifs and maybes, somethings never change for Leinster counties.

The point is, while everybody was writing off Ulster after Tyrone lost and some before it, Down where only a kick of a ball away from winning an AI. Tends to be the same people writing Ulster off to.

I'd class Kildare as the best team in Leinster and they should be beating Antrim. They made hard work of it after a draw!

Derry beat Carlow means nothing, Cavan arguably the worst team in Ulster beat an up and coming Wicklow means something, Derry in disarray beat Westmeath but lost to Kildare which tells us something, Down beat Longford and Offaly, Monaghan losing to Kildare no surprise, Dublin beating Tyrone was a massive result but the time to catch them is in a Q/F.

So, even this season in Ulster Leinster match ups,

Ulster 6, Leinster 5.

All that is happened in Leinster is the 3 best teams have changed over the last few years, Ulster still is as competitive as ever.

I agree that beating Carlow means nothing. Longford have and will always be a weak county in the province. Derry may be in disarray, but Westmeath are something else, when was the last time they won a league game ? Further, you cannot attribute the same weight to Derry beating Carlow, and Cavan beating Laois, as Dublin beating Tyrone and Armagh, and Kildare taking Derry and Monaghan.

Ulster is not to be written off. However, it is not nearly as strong as previous seasons. I would maintain that Dublin, Meath and Kildare would take out the majority of Ulster sides if given the chance in 2011

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

greetings wrote: »

Lads I can't agree with ye about Kildare. I'd fancy Sligo,Mayo and Galway to beat Kildare.

As a galwegian I think, and I believe we are the strongest team in connacht, that that is one of the most ridiculous posts I've ever read. I have been to all of Galway's home matches in the last 3 years and many of their away one's, and I can say without a doubt that we wouldn't come within an arse's roar of them. I think we have the potential to beat them, but if they met this summer there would only have been one winner. Kildare are just far too organised to lose to galway in our current state.

K-9

Het-Field wrote: »

I agree that beating Carlow means nothing. Longford have and will always be a weak county in the province. Derry may be in disarray, but Westmeath are something else, when was the last time they won a league game ? Further, you cannot attribute the same weight to Derry beating Carlow, and Cavan beating Laois, as Dublin beating Tyrone and Armagh, and Kildare taking Derry and Monaghan.

Ulster is not to be written off. However, it is not nearly as strong as previous seasons. I would maintain that Dublin, Meath and Kildare would take out the majority of Ulster sides if given the chance in 2011

Weighting is silly, true, equating an Armagh team in transition higher than Monaghan who have a proven pedigree!

It isn't as strong but saying it is third is very arguable. Dublin, Meath and Kildare should be beating the majority of Ulster teams, otherwise you'd have no point! Tyrone, Down, Armagh, Donegal, Monaghan and even Derry would fancy their chances against the majority of Leinster teams too.

League positions give a general guideline as to strength, particularly Division 1 and 2.

Only 2 Ulster teams are in Div. 3 and 4, 7 Leinster teams are, not counting Kilkenny. That's about as conclusive as you'll get I think.

UrbanSea

THFC wrote: »

As a galwegian I think, and I believe we are the strongest team in connacht, that that is one of the most ridiculous posts I've ever read. I have been to all of Galway's home matches in the last 3 years and many of their away one's, and I can say without a doubt that we wouldn't come within an arse's roar of them. I think we have the potential to beat them, but if they met this summer there would only have been one winner. Kildare are just far too organised to lose to galway in our current state.

Apologies,remove Galway from the list then. But Sligo and Mayo would then. No doubt,Kildare had a fantastic season,but when push comes to shove next year,a (hopefully)rejuvenated Mayo and Galway and Sligo would beat them in my opinion.

Diabhal Beag

THFC wrote: »

As a galwegian I think, and I believe we are the strongest team in connacht, that that is one of the most ridiculous posts I've ever read. I have been to all of Galway's home matches in the last 3 years and many of their away one's, and I can say without a doubt that we wouldn't come within an arse's roar of them. I think we have the potential to beat them, but if they met this summer there would only have been one winner. Kildare are just far too organised to lose to galway in our current state.

Ya but you have to remember that was possibly the worst Galway side in at least 10 years. I do believe that Dublin would have beaten would have beaten any Connacht side and Meath would definitely have beaten any Connacht side this year. Kildare finally showed their worth as the top example of an under-achieving side that improves with game-time. Granted Kildare had a good team but it took a long time for them to gel. Who's to say Sligo wouldn't have been a match for them with that amount of competitive games?

You have to bring in the whole unfair qualifier/provincial winner debate when it comes to losing their first match.

BTW Sligo were the best team in Connacht, Mayo will improve from last year. Galway need to get rid of some of the ****e players before we improve.

rossie1977

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

BTW Sligo were the best team in Connacht

last year?? if we are talking about last year then no there were not, they never lead in the connaught final and were losing by 7 points at one stage in the first half, they were the best team in connaught in 2007 no doubt but not last year

saywhatyousee

rossie1977 wrote: »

last year?? if we are talking about last year then no there were not, they never lead in the connaught final and were losing by 7 points at one stage in the first half, they were the best team in connaught in 2007 no doubt but not last year

sligo got the first score of the game!!
i think sligo punch well above there weight
gaelic football is not popular in sligo
only an select area of south sligo
ballymote to tubbercurry
on any given day i honestly think sligo could beat any team in the country

Diabhal Beag

rossie1977 wrote: »

last year?? if we are talking about last year then no there were not, they never lead in the connaught final and were losing by 7 points at one stage in the first half, they were the best team in connaught in 2007 no doubt but not last year

So they beat Galway and Mayo and aren't the best team in Connacht? They had one bad game against Roscommon. Roscommon were up for it and on another wouldn't have won. Let's be realistic here Rossie.

gaelic football is not popular in sligo
only an select area of south sligo

Yes because Sligo are renowned for their hurling :pac: Is there any bigger sport with the exception of soccer?

saywhatyousee

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

So they beat Galway and Mayo and aren't the best team in Connacht? They had one bad game against Roscommon. Roscommon were up for it and on another wouldn't have won. Let's be realistic here Rossie.


Yes because Sligo are renowned for their hurling :pac: Is there any bigger sport with the exception of soccer?

no thats the point completly soccer dominated

Diabhal Beag

So everybody is a Sligo Rovers fan?

theoneeyedman

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

So they beat Galway and Mayo and aren't the best team in Connacht? They had one bad game against Roscommon. Roscommon were up for it and on another wouldn't have won. Let's be realistic here Rossie.


Yes because Sligo are renowned for their hurling :pac: Is there any bigger sport with the exception of soccer?

And one bad game v Down too when they conceded what....22 points or something? This means they had 'bad games' in 2 of their 4 (5 including a replay when they only had one "bad half") .....teams are defined by championship performances and Sligo sh1t on the eggs this year when they had any expectation on them, only performed when they were underdogs v Galway and mayo

Diabhal Beag

theoneeyedman wrote: »

And one bad game v Down too when they conceded what....22 points or something? This means they had 'bad games' in 2 of their 4 (5 including a replay when they only had one "bad half") .....teams are defined by championship performances and Sligo sh1t on the eggs this year when they had any expectation on them, only performed when they were underdogs v Galway and mayo

But they were the best team in the Provincial Championships in Connacht. Roscommon had an easy route to the final. Sligo beat the top 2. Had one bad match against Roscommon. They lost to All-Ireland finalists whereas Galway lost to Wexford.

Don't get me wrong, Roscommon had a great year. They played a respectable match against Cork. When they start beating Galway and Mayo in one year I will proclaim them the best Connacht side of that year.

saywhatyousee

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

So everybody is a Sligo Rovers fan?

most young people would stop playing gealic football at about 14
the reason for this is that underage soccer games are on a saturday
and then they would play junior soccer on a sunday
thats why i gave up playing and the same with the majorty of the team
and then you would have summerhilll games during the week

saywhatyousee

theoneeyedman wrote: »

And one bad game v Down too when they conceded what....22 points or something? This means they had 'bad games' in 2 of their 4 (5 including a replay when they only had one "bad half") .....teams are defined by championship performances and Sligo sh1t on the eggs this year when they had any expectation on them, only performed when they were underdogs v Galway and mayo

roscommon caught sligo on the hop that day
where roscommon the better team on the day? yes they where
are roscommon a better team than sligo overall?no i think a lot of neutrals would agree with me

rossie1977

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

But they were the best team in the Provincial Championships in Connacht. Roscommon had an easy route to the final. Sligo beat the top 2. Had one bad match against Roscommon. They lost to All-Ireland finalists whereas Galway lost to Wexford.

Don't get me wrong, Roscommon had a great year. They played a respectable match against Cork. When they start beating Galway and Mayo in one year I will proclaim them the best Connacht side of that year.

lol you have to be kidding, you can only beat what is put in front of you and roscommon did that, they beat sligo where mayo and galway could not, they won the cup, sligo did not

roscommon beat galway and mayo in 2001, i didn't hear any galway fans like yourself proclaiming roscommon best side in connaught that year

roscommon also beat sligo in this years under 21 connaught final and roscommons club champions st bridgets just beat the sligo club champions by 17 points today

Syferus

And here was me thinking the railway cup had stoked a great debate.

Whoops.

On topic: everyone can find statistics to support their perspective (Leinster haven't been in the All-Ireland final in nine years; Connacht haven't beeing represented in the semi-finals in four years), but in reality the biggest story over the past year has been something of a leveling off of quaility - there were no untouchable teams this year, with even Cork having multiple cardiac moments on the way to Sam.

There's obviously still a hiearchy, but with Kildare, Roscommon, Sligo, Meath (ahem!), Louth and Dublin all making degrees of progression this year I think both proviences have reasons to be confident for the future.

On Diabhal: so we meet again, my nemesis! In all seriousness though, you've driven yourself into a corner; Sligo lost to the losing All-Ireland finalist by 20 points, we (Roscommon!) lost to the eventual All-Ireland champions by 9 points, after being entrenched in the game for about 52 or so minutes before Cork started to pull away, something Sligo could never claim in their game against Down. If we use that logic it would have to say Roscommon were the 'best' team, but comparisons like this are always slightlty distasteful; what will be remembered when all else is forgotten will be that Roscommon won the Connacht championship in 2010, not that Mayo were within seconds of a two point victory in 2001 or that Sligo came into the 2010 final as the hottest of favourites. Victory or nothing - it's the reason we all love it.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

Look, everyone knows Sligo were the best team in connacht this year. They played
a bad game against the rossies and less than a week later they had to play Down. If yeh start a poll I'm sure they'd only be 1 winner.

Diabhal Beag

Syferus wrote: »

And here was me thinking the railway cup had stoked a great debate.

Whoops.

On topic: everyone can find statistics to support their perspective (Leinster haven't been in the All-Ireland final in nine years; Connacht haven't beeing represented in the semi-finals in four years), but in reality the biggest story over the past year has been something of a leveling off of quaility - there were no untouchable teams this year, with even Cork having multiple cardiac moments on the way to Sam.

There's obviously still a hiearchy, but with Kildare, Roscommon, Sligo, Meath (ahem!), Louth and Dublin all making degrees of progression this year I think both proviences have reasons to be confident for the future.

On Diabhal: so we meet again, my nemesis! In all seriousness though, you've driven yourself into a corner; Sligo lost to the losing All-Ireland finalist by 20 points, we (Roscommon!) lost to the eventual All-Ireland champions by 9 points, after being entrenched in the game for about 52 or so minutes before Cork started to pull away, something Sligo could never claim in their game against Down. If we use that logic it would have to say Roscommon were the 'best' team, but comparisons like this are always slightlty distasteful; what will be remembered when all else is forgotten will be that Roscommon won the Connacht championship in 2010, not that Mayo were within seconds of a two point victory in 2001 or that Sligo came into the 2010 final as the hottest of favourites. Victory or nothing - it's the reason we all love it.

I know where you are coming from but Sligo had two good wins over the 2 top teams in Connacht this year. Roscommon had an easy route to the final with no replays. They had to worry about the sides like Leitrim.
If we use my previous logic Sligo had wins over Mayo and Galway. Roscommon had wins over London and Leitrim and Sligo. Sligo lost to a Down team that went on to destroy Kerry and narrowly beat Kildare (Thread turns full circle). Cork beat Roscommon, struggled past Dublin but turned on the flair against Down.

Go ahead and proclaim that Roscommon were truly the top Connacht side of last year. You have a cup to back the point up.

Sligo have the heads of the Big 2. They had replays against Galway so fatique would have been an issue (look at the qualifier system).

On this occasion I really don't think that the team with the Cup really were the best team in Connacht. Just my opinion.

megadodge

So according to the warped "logic" of our two Galway supporters, we shouldn't bother playing matches at all.

If Galway/Mayo/Sligo win the Connacht championship they are the best team in Connacht, but if they don't win it they're still the best team in Connacht ????

Why not decide next year's Connacht championship with an internet poll????

Honestly, what sort of skewd, f*cked up thinking is that?

This pathetic "on the day they were better" is so juvenile it's hardly worth replying to... but of course I will.

What other day are they supposed to be better? The day before? The day after? NO, IT'S ALWAYS ON THE DAY !!!
IT HAS NEVER BEEN ANY OTHER WAY!!!

I'll tell you what, if Galway/Mayo don't perform well "on the day" next year, sure we'll have a replay. The poor Galway lads shouldn't be forced to perform well every matchday surely?

Do you people realise that's why competition was invented?
To PROVE who the better team is by actually playing each other instead of talking sh!te about it.

UrbanSea

Well megadodge,I hope that Roscommon get to play Mayo and Galway next year and beat them,to confirm their position as the best in Connaught. But I'd bet with you right now that they'd lose the first game.

UrbanSea

Syferus wrote: »

On Diabhal: so we meet again, my nemesis! In all seriousness though, you've driven yourself into a corner; Sligo lost to the losing All-Ireland finalist by 20 points, we (Roscommon!) lost to the eventual All-Ireland champions by 9 points, after being entrenched in the game for about 52 or so minutes before Cork started to pull away, something Sligo could never claim in their game against Down. If we use that logic it would have to say Roscommon were the 'best' team, but comparisons like this are always slightlty distasteful; what will be remembered when all else is forgotten will be that Roscommon won the Connacht championship in 2010, not that Mayo were within seconds of a two point victory in 2001 or that Sligo came into the 2010 final as the hottest of favourites. Victory or nothing - it's the reason we all love it.

I don't think the way you're thinking can be used validly for Gaelic Football,it's more so like a horse racing mentality you have,working out the form of each match.
I.e One horse,T, is beaten 20 lengths by X and X goes on to be beaten by Y 9 lengths,that puts Y 29 lengths better than T!
Football doesn't hold up its form like this. Roscommon never should have won the provincial title if the proper Sligo turned up, It's a mixture of them over performing and Sligo under performing. And if you use the theory you're using of a horse racing form like system,that can easily be explained and reversed.

And apologies if people don't get what I mean,but that's the way his reasoning struck me.

Diabhal Beag

megadodge wrote: »

So according to the warped "logic" of our two Galway supporters, we shouldn't bother playing matches at all.

If Galway/Mayo/Sligo win the Connacht championship they are the best team in Connacht, but if they don't win it they're still the best team in Connacht ????

Why not decide next year's Connacht championship with an internet poll????

Honestly, what sort of skewd, f*cked up thinking is that?

This pathetic "on the day they were better" is so juvenile it's hardly worth replying to... but of course I will.

What other day are they supposed to be better? The day before? The day after? NO, IT'S ALWAYS ON THE DAY !!!
IT HAS NEVER BEEN ANY OTHER WAY!!!

I'll tell you what, if Galway/Mayo don't perform well "on the day" next year, sure we'll have a replay. The poor Galway lads shouldn't be forced to perform well every matchday surely?

Do you people realise that's why competition was invented?
To PROVE who the better team is by actually playing each other instead of talking sh!te about it.

I take offense to this TBH. I never said Roscommon didn't deserve to be champions. I just said overall that Sligo were the best team in Connacht. They beat the big teams. Anybody can win a football match. Sligo took Roscommon for granted and paid the price. Can you honestly say that wins over Leitrim and London are far more impressive than Mayo and Galway? If you do you are crazy. Sure Roscommon beat Sligo. That warrants the opinion that they were the best team in Connacht. To out-right say there was no better side in Connacht is ****e.

Greece won Euro 2004. Did that make them better than a better side than say Spain? Did that mean that if Greece beat Andorra and Ireland that they were better than Spain who say beat Italy and Germany on the way to the final? No.

Losing one match does not mean that Sligo weren't the best team in Connacht. It just means they are human. That's my opinion. Sorry if I don't think beating London and Leitrim is impressive.

rossie1977

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

Greece won Euro 2004. Did that make them better than a better side than say Spain? Did that mean that if Greece beat Andorra and Ireland that they were better than Spain who say beat Italy and Germany on the way to the final? No.

if they beat spain then yes they are better than spain, roscommon beat sligo so thus they were better in 2010

lets put the boot on the other foot for a minute, in 1998 galway were not the best team in ireland because they didn't beat kerry, dublin or tyrone, see we can all play this game...........

rossie1977

greetings wrote: »

Roscommon never should have won the provincial title if the proper Sligo turned up, It's a mixture of them over performing and Sligo under performing.

o'donnell had his homework done on sligo, he pinpointed sligos dangerman and stopped him completely, this was a characteristic of roscommons minor win too in 2006, shane o'rourke was shut down in the semi and tommy walsh didn't get a kick in the final replay

they totally nullified david kelly whereas galway and mayo did not, once kelly was contained everything else just fell into place and without costello scoring 5 or 6 points from about 60 yards out (which on another day would have sailed wide), the game was won

Diabhal Beag

rossie1977 wrote: »

if they beat spain then yes they are better than spain, roscommon beat sligo so thus they were better in 2010

lets put the boot on the other foot for a minute, in 1998 galway were not the best team in ireland because they didn't beat kerry, dublin or tyrone, see we can all play this game...........

My point is that if Sligo had Roscommon's side of the draw they would be Connacht champions. If Roscommon had to play Mayo and Galway you wouldn't have been champions. On that point I can't say they are the best team in Connacht. They are Connacht champions by luck.

I was only 6 in 1998 so I can't really say whether we would have beaten Kerry but going by history I doubt it.

Syferus

rossie1977 wrote: »

if they beat spain then yes they are better than spain, roscommon beat sligo so thus they were better in 2010

lets put the boot on the other foot for a minute, in 1998 galway were not the best team in ireland because they didn't beat kerry, dublin or tyrone, see we can all play this game...........

And that's exactly what I was trying to ping in my post and I think was missed by at least one poster - comparing and contrasting preformances against other teams is as subjective a use of statistics as you can have and when it comes down to is who wins when it matters; Roscommon won the Connacht championship in 2010 where Sligo, Mayo and Galway couldn't and no team from Connacht went farther in the championship than Roscommon.

To add perspective to this we should look back at 2001, Roscommon's last Connacht championship winning season. Although we beat both Galway (in Tuam!) and Mayo en-route to the Nester Cup, we fell flat against Galway in the All-Ireland quarter-final and Galway went on to win the All-Ireland that year. Few Roscommon people will argue we were the best team from Connacht that year even though we became the first team to beat the year's eventual All-Ireland champions and indeed have that year's Connacht title for our troubles. This past year the stage is very different - every other Connacht team got knocked out at the quailifiers stage and only Roscommon surrived into August.

megadodge

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

I take offense to this TBH. I never said Roscommon didn't deserve to be champions. I just said overall that Sligo were the best team in Connacht. They beat the big teams. Anybody can win a football match. Sligo took Roscommon for granted and paid the price. Can you honestly say that wins over Leitrim and London are far more impressive than Mayo and Galway? If you do you are crazy. Sure Roscommon beat Sligo. That warrants the opinion that they were the best team in Connacht. To out-right say there was no better side in Connacht is ****e.

Greece won Euro 2004. Did that make them better than a better side than say Spain? Did that mean that if Greece beat Andorra and Ireland that they were better than Spain who say beat Italy and Germany on the way to the final? No.

Losing one match does not mean that Sligo weren't the best team in Connacht. It just means they are human. That's my opinion. Sorry if I don't think beating London and Leitrim is impressive.

"Anybody can win a football match" ???????????????????
WTF?????????????????

So by that logic, Galway are better than Sligo, cos "anybody can win a football match" and Mayo are better than Sligo cos "anybody can win a football match".

I hope I don't offend your sensibilities by asking - how do you actually prove you are better than a football team if beating them in a football match doesn't prove it???

Who brought Leitrim and London into the equation? I certainly never mentioned them. ROSCOMMON BEAT SLIGO FAIR AND SQUARE!! But by doing so that proves they are a worse team - in the dreamworld you live in.

You're obviously not old enough to realise yet that the team that is expected to win very often doesn't. It happens all the time and there are numerous reasons, not least among them people not realising beforehand how good the team that won actually were. Lack of knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Roscommon had to play Mayo and Galway you wouldn't have been champions.

Can you actually prove that?

Actually, getting back to that - how do you prove it? On an internet message board?

They are Connacht champions by luck.

I just couldn't let that one go, because the moment I read it I thought of the very true saying "Success is all a matter of luck - ask any loser".

Diabhal Beag

Yes any team can win a match. This happens in any sport. If there wasn't the possibility that anybody can win even just once there would be no such thing as exciting sports.

No I'm not living in a dreamland. I'm just amazed that you will proclaim Roscommon the top team in Connacht despite not acknowledging their easy route to the final whereas Sligo had as tough a job to get their as you can have in Connacht.

Roscommon are the rightful Connacht champions. I'm not disputing that they beat Sligo. They won all their matches. They won. Well done.

My whole argument is that Roscommon did not beat the big two teams. That's a big deal. It puts a big blemish on their Connacht title if you ask me. Sligo did that. Twice. In my opinion one defeat does against Roscommon does not mean they didn't have the best showing in Connacht.

Syferus

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

Yes any team can win a match. This happens in any sport. If there wasn't the possibility that anybody can win even just once there would be no such thing as exciting sports.

No I'm not living in a dreamland. I'm just amazed that you will proclaim Roscommon the top team in Connacht despite not acknowledging their easy route to the final whereas Sligo had as tough a job to get their as you can have in Connacht.

Roscommon are the rightful Connacht champions. I'm not disputing that they beat Sligo. They won all their matches. They won. Well done.

My whole argument is that Roscommon did not beat the big two teams. That's a big deal. It puts a big blemish on their Connacht title if you ask me. Sligo did that. Twice. In my opinion one defeat does against Roscommon does not mean they didn't have the best showing in Connacht.

What has happened in the past doesn't change the results - the two 'big' Connacht teams didn't win a single championship match between them this year save Galway's glorified warm-up game against New York. Roscommon only lost the the eventual All-Ireland champions, Sligo were edged out by a single point by Roscommon and lost to the losing All-Ireland finalist in their quailifier match. What was good isn't forever good, an indeed what's good now isn't assuredly good next year, but this year it's next to impossible to impose any idea of Sligo being better than a team they lost to on the biggest day of their season.

K-9

Roscommon only beat Sligo, that was the only team of note that they beat in the Championship. Sligo have been around for a few years, running Kerry close last season too. Sligo are higher up in the ratings because of that. Provincial champions, especially in Connacht and Munster, just doesn't mean that much anymore. We'll know more about Roscommon next season.

Syferus

K-9 wrote: »

Roscommon only beat Sligo, that was the only team of note that they beat in the Championship. Sligo have been around for a few years, running Kerry close last season too. Sligo are higher up in the ratings because of that. Provincial champions, especially in Connacht and Munster, just doesn't mean that much anymore. We'll know more about Roscommon next season.

In terms of All-Ireland rankings I'd agree, but emotionally and culturally the provincial chamionships mean a hell of a lot to most counties - be it Kerry desperately wanting to go through the front door this year or Roscommon and Sligo giving everything for the Nester Cup. Different reasons for different teams.

Success makes great things seem mundane - the Triple Crown's fall in status after we won it so many times recently being a perfect example of that.

K-9

Syferus wrote: »

In terms of All-Ireland rankings I'd agree, but emotionally and culturally the provincial chamionships mean a hell of a lot to most counties - be it Kerry desperately wanting to go through the front door this year or Roscommon and Sligo giving everything for the Nester Cup. Different reasons for different teams.

Success makes great things seem mundane - the Triple Crown's fall in status after we won it so many times recently being a perfect example of that.

Yes, but I'd compare it to Kerry winning AI's in 06 and 09. They were still AI's but they didn't beat Tyrone along the way.

I think comparing Munster to Connacht isn't fair, Connacht is more competitive, 4 counties that are close to each other in standard.

Sligo winning Connacht after beating the big 3 traditional powers would have been a big achievement, probably topped the one they won a few years ago, for the players anyway. Roscommon's win is notable because it's 9 years since the last one, not who they beat.

Some years are just sweeter to win Provincials, beating the big teams is that time. 1992 beating Derry was sweeter for Donegal than 1990 beating Armagh.

spider guardian

One swallow does not a summer make, there's no way either sligo or roscommon can claim to be the best team in connacht, let them have a sustained run in the league and consistently win the provincial title before they assume that heavy crown