Provincial football Connacht V Leinster

wicklowwonder

Is Connacht football in a better state then Leinster Football?

Realistically if you take a team like Laois or Westmeath who wouldn't be exactly a heavyweight in Leinster (Kildare, Dublin and Meath - would be in my opinion but thats not the issue) would fancy beating all teams in Connacht. I think Connacht football is the weakest in the country full stop.

really what we need is a Champions League style format to really test teams like Roscommon (Connacht Champions) Against teams like Laois and Westmeath. A Connacht football medal in my opinion is not near as valuable as a Leinster football medal.

What are other peoples opinions?

spider guardian

wicklowwonder wrote: »

Realistically if you take a team like Laois or Westmeath who wouldn't be exactly a heavyweight in Leinster (Kildare, Dublin and Meath - would be in my opinion but thats not the issue) would fancy beating all teams in Connacht. I think Connacht football is the weakest in the country full stop.

really what we need is a Champions League style format to really test teams like Roscommon (Connacht Champions) Against teams like Laois and Westmeath. A Connacht football medal in my opinion is not near as valuable as a Leinster football medal.

What has any team from Leinster achieved in the past 11 years to suggest that the province as a whole is better than Connacht? Since 1999 only one team from each province has won the All-Ireland and one team from Connacht has won the league. Slim pickings from both but nothing to suggest superioity from either side.

You shouldn't use this year's championship as a yardstick to measure the Connacht teams. Mayo and Galway were especially poor against Longford and Wexford, on even a half-decent year they are more than a match for the bigger teams in Leinster. Last year Mayo should have beaten Meath in the quarter-finals and the year before that they were unlucky to lose by a point against Tyrone. Galway have not been performing the last few years but when they get their act together they will be back up there challenging again. Both teams are in transistion but the talent is there within both counties, moreso than the weaker Leinster teams.

Sligo did well this year winning Division 3 and Roscommon made Cork work in the 2nd half of the quarter final.

Whilst I wouldn't say the standard of Connacht is better than Leinster I certainly wouldn't say it is any worse. Matches between teams from both provinces can produce brilliant games, remember the Mayo Dublin semi-final from 2006!

The change in the championship structure certainly has merit but that is another debate.

theoneeyedman

It's hard to argue with any conviction that Leinster is a strong province.One could argue that the dubs won 4(? I think) in a row titles there and made no impact on the All ireland series in that time. Outside of the 3 largely populated counties, i don't believe any of the leinster counties would win a connacht title, or indeed would have won one at any time over the last 10-15 years. Galway and mayo had a lull this year especially but don't get carried away by poor teams playing championship games in croker in front of tv cameras and thinking they are better than they are

Diabhal Beag

So Laois would beat all teams in Connacht? Rubbish in fairness. If you look at this year then Connacht was inferior to Leinster. Galway and Mayo were brutal. Laois are even worse. Westmeath are about the same. It's the same names that win Leinster. Connacht had 3 big stories this year. Roscommon winning Connacht, Sligo beating Galway and Mayo and those two being out-played by smaller teams.

Dublin, Meath and Kildare are better than all Connacht teams at the moment but next season could be a different story.

Mayo have been in 2 All-Irelands this decade. Galway won an All-Ireland. Dublin haven't gotten to a Final. Meath was as good as Leinster got to an All-Ireland in the 2000's.

I'd have to see how the teams fair out next season to see which Province has better teams for the future.

K-9

What has happened in Leinster is the balance of power has swung from Laois and Westmeath over to Kildare and Meath, with Dublin still there obviously. Tbh I can't see Westmeath getting back to where they were and I don't know enough about Laois.

In a league or Qualifier match I'd fancy Galway or Mayo to beat Laois or Westmeath, definitely. Sligo would be tight and Roscommon, not sure, but they are a young up and coming team.

I'd rate Dublin, Kildare and Meath ahead of Connacht teams. After that, I'd say Galway and Mayo are better than the rest of Leinster with Sligo as good as the rest.

Once you go past the top 3 in Leinster, the standard isn't that great. Wexford and Westmeath seem to be on the wane, Louth could be one season wonders, Wicklow, Carlow, Offaly and Longford are limited and Laois under achieve.

League positions, while not definitive, give you a fair idea, with Division 3 and 4 generally being a good bit of the rest.

Galway and Mayo are Division 1 teams, Sligo are now in Div. 2 and Roscommon are the exception to the rule!, being in Div. 4, along with Leitrim.

Only Dublin are in Division 1 but that doesn't mean alot as there isn't much between the top 2 Divisions and Meath, Laois and Kildare are there.

Tbh, I think there isn't as much between the provinces as people make out. Ulster is still the most competitive and Munster do have Limerick and Tipp and Waterford trying their best.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

Wow, I'm suprised that people actually think Connacht football is as strong as Leinster's. Right now we're miles behind them. No one from connacht has gotten past the QF in I dont know how long - 2006?? But I wouldn't be too worried. There's been plenty of connacht bashing threads over on Hogan Stand. Every thing comes around in circles and I'm sure we'll be back contesting for AI's sooner rather than later. In the mean-time I dont think there's much point defending the state of us. I dont even remember the last time a connacht player won an all-star.

Diabhal Beag

Leinster is stronger but Laois or Westmeath wouldn't win Connacht as OP said. The Meaths, Kildares and definitely Dublin would.

unknown13

wicklowwonder wrote: »

Is Connacht football in a better state then Leinster Football?

No, Dublin, Meath and Kildare would be too much for all the Connacht teams.

wicklowwonder wrote: »

Realistically if you take a team like Laois or Westmeath who wouldn't be exactly a heavyweight in Leinster (Kildare, Dublin and Meath - would be in my opinion but thats not the issue) would fancy beating all teams in Connacht. I think Connacht football is the weakest in the country full stop.

The problem with Laois is there consistency, they are a good side if they show up. The matches against Meath showed that. They were good in the first match but terrible in the second match. If a good Laois team showed up I would fancy their chances against any team in Connacht. Westmeath, no, they aren't a great side.

wicklowwonder

just to make this clear I don't want this to turn into a Connacht bashing thread.

Interesting thoughts so far. I do feel Connacht teams have it easier to win an provincial.

Also did some digging in the last 20 years in the Connacht club championship Galway and Mayo clubs have dominated with Roscommon winning two thats it no others. Leinster on the other hand have had winners from Wicklow, Dublin, Carlow, Laois, Kildare and Meath. I actually forgot the dominance Eire Og - Carlow had over Leinster in the 90s!

I think if a county like Wicklow or Carlow were to swap provinces with a sligo or roscommon they would be as successful. As club results have shown over the last 20 years these 2 counties have probably produced better club players than Sligo or roscommon but these players havent the chance on the Leinster County route because of big guns like Meath or Dublin etc. Taking it a step further in the old system a team like Mayo or Galway could be in an All Ireland Final by winning 3 games (Connacht Semi, Connacht Final, AI Semi) Very glad we are not back in those games. Leinster teams could win 3 games and only be in a Leinster Final.

Just a thought I had today which I wanted to share!

K-9

wicklowwonder wrote: »

just to make this clear I don't want this to turn into a Connacht bashing thread.

Interesting thoughts so far. I do feel Connacht teams have it easier to win an provincial.

Also did some digging in the last 20 years in the Connacht club championship Galway and Mayo clubs have dominated with Roscommon winning two thats it no others. Leinster on the other hand have had winners from Wicklow, Dublin, Carlow, Laois, Kildare and Meath. I actually forgot the dominance Eire Og - Carlow had over Leinster in the 90s!

I think if a county like Wicklow or Carlow were to swap provinces with a sligo or roscommon they would be as successful. As club results have shown over the last 20 years these 2 counties have probably produced better club players than Sligo or roscommon but these players havent the chance on the Leinster County route because of big guns like Meath or Dublin etc. Taking it a step further in the old system a team like Mayo or Galway could be in an All Ireland Final by winning 3 games (Connacht Semi, Connacht Final, AI Semi) Very glad we are not back in those games. Leinster teams could win 3 games and only be in a Leinster Final.

Just a thought I had today which I wanted to share!

Good points but with the back door, if a team is good enough they should be making a go of the Qualifiers, Fermanagh being a great example from Ulster. Fair enough, they have gone back again but they punched way above their weight for a few seasons.

Leinster counties haven't been that successful, even with the Qualifiers. Out of the 11 counties competing, 6 got to Quarter or Semi Finals. Not bad, but the rest are far off and of those 6, 3 arguably are in decline.

Offaly are the only one out of them that I remember getting to a Leinster final recently, though as you say, it is harder for weaker counties. Yet in Ulster, all 9 counties have got to Ulster Finals in the last decade and 7 have got Quarter Finals, so it is possible.

With Connacht, Roscommon and Sligo have won the title albeit Roscommon probably a bit lucky with the draw. I wrote Sligo off a few seasons ago and they are still there and Roscommon are on the rise.

Gingy

wicklowwonder wrote: »

Interesting thoughts so far. I do feel Connacht teams have it easier to win an provincial.

Ah come on wicklowwonder, between Cromwell, Famine and emigration Connacht has had it tough over the years, we better give them something easy;)

rossie1977

wicklowwonder wrote: »

Also did some digging in the last 20 years in the Connacht club championship Galway and Mayo clubs have dominated with Roscommon winning two thats it no others. Leinster on the other hand have had winners from Wicklow, Dublin, Carlow, Laois, Kildare and Meath. I actually forgot the dominance Eire Og - Carlow had over Leinster in the 90s!

what relevance has that with anything, i noticed you narrowed it down to the last 20 years to suit your own argument :rolleyes: before that Clan na nGael of roscommon dominated the connaught club scene winning 6 titles in 7 years and yet during that time period 1982-88 roscommon won no senior connaught titles...................

I think if a county like Wicklow or Carlow were to swap provinces with a sligo or roscommon they would be as successful. As club results have shown over the last 20 years these 2 counties have probably produced better club players than Sligo or roscommon but these players havent the chance on the Leinster County route because of big guns like Meath or Dublin etc.

ok; lets start at the top, wicklow/carlow could be as successful as roscommon..........when nowadays?? can't argue, roscommon senior football has been in turmoil this past 7-8 years so being as successful as roscommon today is nothing to brag about

sligo haven't been that successful in connaught at all, 3 titles in their entire history isn't exactly successful

but lets get more to the point here, roscommon were an established division 1 team 7-8 years ago before it all hit off i never remember either wicklow or carlow in division 1 let alone topping that section

rpurfield

THFC wrote: »

Wow, I'm suprised that people actually think Connacht football is as strong as Leinster's. Right now we're miles behind them. No one from connacht has gotten past the QF in I dont know how long - 2006?? But I wouldn't be too worried. There's been plenty of connacht bashing threads over on Hogan Stand. Every thing comes around in circles and I'm sure we'll be back contesting for AI's sooner rather than later. In the mean-time I dont think there's much point defending the state of us. I dont even remember the last time a connacht player won an all-star.

the bit in bold is the bottom line really i think leinster was good this year because we fianlly beat dublin again and louth played some terrifc stuff beating kildare and in the leinster final.even the dublin wexford game and meath and laois were exciting so it felt more open.

Het-Field

The is no comparison. I believe this thread to be rooted in the last decade. I cannot argue that between 2005-2009 Leinster was the weakest province by far. The balance has been redressed, and Leinster are on the up. In fact, Leinster have drawn as close to Ulster as a province as makes no difference. Save for the frame of the goalpost, Kildare would have made it to the All Ireland final at the expense of Down. This would have meant that Leinster sides would have accounted for Down, Tyrone, Derry, Monaghan, Antrim, and Armagh, while the likes of Fermanagh and Dongal were knocked out by fellow Ulstermen. Aside from Down, Cavan were the only side to enjoy any success over Leinster opposition this term.

In spite of Down's run to the final, I would currently rate Ulster as the third strongest province, with Munster on top of the pile. Connaught is nowhere near Leinster's big boys.

K-9

Het-Field wrote: »

The is no comparison. I believe this thread to be rooted in the last decade. I cannot argue that between 2005-2009 Leinster was the weakest province by far. The balance has been redressed, and Leinster are on the up. In fact, Leinster have drawn as close to Ulster as a province as makes no difference. Save for the frame of the goalpost, Kildare would have made it to the All Ireland final at the expense of Down. This would have meant that Leinster sides would have accounted for Down, Tyrone, Derry, Monaghan, Antrim, and Armagh, while the likes of Fermanagh and Dongal were knocked out by fellow Ulstermen. Aside from Down, Cavan were the only side to enjoy any success over Leinster opposition this term.

In spite of Down's run to the final, I would currently rate Ulster as the third strongest province, with Munster on top of the pile. Connaught is nowhere near Leinster's big boys.

Ifs and maybes, somethings never change for Leinster counties.

The point is, while everybody was writing off Ulster after Tyrone lost and some before it, Down where only a kick of a ball away from winning an AI. Tends to be the same people writing Ulster off to.

I'd class Kildare as the best team in Leinster and they should be beating Antrim. They made hard work of it after a draw!

Derry beat Carlow means nothing, Cavan arguably the worst team in Ulster beat an up and coming Wicklow means something, Derry in disarray beat Westmeath but lost to Kildare which tells us something, Down beat Longford and Offaly, Monaghan losing to Kildare no surprise, Dublin beating Tyrone was a massive result but the time to catch them is in a Q/F.

So, even this season in Ulster Leinster match ups,

Ulster 6, Leinster 5.

All that is happened in Leinster is the 3 best teams have changed over the last few years, Ulster still is as competitive as ever.

UrbanSea

Lads I can't agree with ye about Kildare. I'd fancy Sligo,Mayo and Galway to beat Kildare.

Het-Field

K-9 wrote: »

Ifs and maybes, somethings never change for Leinster counties.

The point is, while everybody was writing off Ulster after Tyrone lost and some before it, Down where only a kick of a ball away from winning an AI. Tends to be the same people writing Ulster off to.

I'd class Kildare as the best team in Leinster and they should be beating Antrim. They made hard work of it after a draw!

Derry beat Carlow means nothing, Cavan arguably the worst team in Ulster beat an up and coming Wicklow means something, Derry in disarray beat Westmeath but lost to Kildare which tells us something, Down beat Longford and Offaly, Monaghan losing to Kildare no surprise, Dublin beating Tyrone was a massive result but the time to catch them is in a Q/F.

So, even this season in Ulster Leinster match ups,

Ulster 6, Leinster 5.

All that is happened in Leinster is the 3 best teams have changed over the last few years, Ulster still is as competitive as ever.

I agree that beating Carlow means nothing. Longford have and will always be a weak county in the province. Derry may be in disarray, but Westmeath are something else, when was the last time they won a league game ? Further, you cannot attribute the same weight to Derry beating Carlow, and Cavan beating Laois, as Dublin beating Tyrone and Armagh, and Kildare taking Derry and Monaghan.

Ulster is not to be written off. However, it is not nearly as strong as previous seasons. I would maintain that Dublin, Meath and Kildare would take out the majority of Ulster sides if given the chance in 2011

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

greetings wrote: »

Lads I can't agree with ye about Kildare. I'd fancy Sligo,Mayo and Galway to beat Kildare.

As a galwegian I think, and I believe we are the strongest team in connacht, that that is one of the most ridiculous posts I've ever read. I have been to all of Galway's home matches in the last 3 years and many of their away one's, and I can say without a doubt that we wouldn't come within an arse's roar of them. I think we have the potential to beat them, but if they met this summer there would only have been one winner. Kildare are just far too organised to lose to galway in our current state.

K-9

Het-Field wrote: »

I agree that beating Carlow means nothing. Longford have and will always be a weak county in the province. Derry may be in disarray, but Westmeath are something else, when was the last time they won a league game ? Further, you cannot attribute the same weight to Derry beating Carlow, and Cavan beating Laois, as Dublin beating Tyrone and Armagh, and Kildare taking Derry and Monaghan.

Ulster is not to be written off. However, it is not nearly as strong as previous seasons. I would maintain that Dublin, Meath and Kildare would take out the majority of Ulster sides if given the chance in 2011

Weighting is silly, true, equating an Armagh team in transition higher than Monaghan who have a proven pedigree!

It isn't as strong but saying it is third is very arguable. Dublin, Meath and Kildare should be beating the majority of Ulster teams, otherwise you'd have no point! Tyrone, Down, Armagh, Donegal, Monaghan and even Derry would fancy their chances against the majority of Leinster teams too.

League positions give a general guideline as to strength, particularly Division 1 and 2.

Only 2 Ulster teams are in Div. 3 and 4, 7 Leinster teams are, not counting Kilkenny. That's about as conclusive as you'll get I think.

UrbanSea

THFC wrote: »

As a galwegian I think, and I believe we are the strongest team in connacht, that that is one of the most ridiculous posts I've ever read. I have been to all of Galway's home matches in the last 3 years and many of their away one's, and I can say without a doubt that we wouldn't come within an arse's roar of them. I think we have the potential to beat them, but if they met this summer there would only have been one winner. Kildare are just far too organised to lose to galway in our current state.

Apologies,remove Galway from the list then. But Sligo and Mayo would then. No doubt,Kildare had a fantastic season,but when push comes to shove next year,a (hopefully)rejuvenated Mayo and Galway and Sligo would beat them in my opinion.

Diabhal Beag

THFC wrote: »

As a galwegian I think, and I believe we are the strongest team in connacht, that that is one of the most ridiculous posts I've ever read. I have been to all of Galway's home matches in the last 3 years and many of their away one's, and I can say without a doubt that we wouldn't come within an arse's roar of them. I think we have the potential to beat them, but if they met this summer there would only have been one winner. Kildare are just far too organised to lose to galway in our current state.

Ya but you have to remember that was possibly the worst Galway side in at least 10 years. I do believe that Dublin would have beaten would have beaten any Connacht side and Meath would definitely have beaten any Connacht side this year. Kildare finally showed their worth as the top example of an under-achieving side that improves with game-time. Granted Kildare had a good team but it took a long time for them to gel. Who's to say Sligo wouldn't have been a match for them with that amount of competitive games?

You have to bring in the whole unfair qualifier/provincial winner debate when it comes to losing their first match.

BTW Sligo were the best team in Connacht, Mayo will improve from last year. Galway need to get rid of some of the ****e players before we improve.

rossie1977

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

BTW Sligo were the best team in Connacht

last year?? if we are talking about last year then no there were not, they never lead in the connaught final and were losing by 7 points at one stage in the first half, they were the best team in connaught in 2007 no doubt but not last year

saywhatyousee

rossie1977 wrote: »

last year?? if we are talking about last year then no there were not, they never lead in the connaught final and were losing by 7 points at one stage in the first half, they were the best team in connaught in 2007 no doubt but not last year

sligo got the first score of the game!!
i think sligo punch well above there weight
gaelic football is not popular in sligo
only an select area of south sligo
ballymote to tubbercurry
on any given day i honestly think sligo could beat any team in the country

Diabhal Beag

rossie1977 wrote: »

last year?? if we are talking about last year then no there were not, they never lead in the connaught final and were losing by 7 points at one stage in the first half, they were the best team in connaught in 2007 no doubt but not last year

So they beat Galway and Mayo and aren't the best team in Connacht? They had one bad game against Roscommon. Roscommon were up for it and on another wouldn't have won. Let's be realistic here Rossie.

gaelic football is not popular in sligo
only an select area of south sligo

Yes because Sligo are renowned for their hurling :pac: Is there any bigger sport with the exception of soccer?

saywhatyousee

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

So they beat Galway and Mayo and aren't the best team in Connacht? They had one bad game against Roscommon. Roscommon were up for it and on another wouldn't have won. Let's be realistic here Rossie.


Yes because Sligo are renowned for their hurling :pac: Is there any bigger sport with the exception of soccer?

no thats the point completly soccer dominated

Diabhal Beag

So everybody is a Sligo Rovers fan?

theoneeyedman

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

So they beat Galway and Mayo and aren't the best team in Connacht? They had one bad game against Roscommon. Roscommon were up for it and on another wouldn't have won. Let's be realistic here Rossie.


Yes because Sligo are renowned for their hurling :pac: Is there any bigger sport with the exception of soccer?

And one bad game v Down too when they conceded what....22 points or something? This means they had 'bad games' in 2 of their 4 (5 including a replay when they only had one "bad half") .....teams are defined by championship performances and Sligo sh1t on the eggs this year when they had any expectation on them, only performed when they were underdogs v Galway and mayo

Diabhal Beag

theoneeyedman wrote: »

And one bad game v Down too when they conceded what....22 points or something? This means they had 'bad games' in 2 of their 4 (5 including a replay when they only had one "bad half") .....teams are defined by championship performances and Sligo sh1t on the eggs this year when they had any expectation on them, only performed when they were underdogs v Galway and mayo

But they were the best team in the Provincial Championships in Connacht. Roscommon had an easy route to the final. Sligo beat the top 2. Had one bad match against Roscommon. They lost to All-Ireland finalists whereas Galway lost to Wexford.

Don't get me wrong, Roscommon had a great year. They played a respectable match against Cork. When they start beating Galway and Mayo in one year I will proclaim them the best Connacht side of that year.

saywhatyousee

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

So everybody is a Sligo Rovers fan?

most young people would stop playing gealic football at about 14
the reason for this is that underage soccer games are on a saturday
and then they would play junior soccer on a sunday
thats why i gave up playing and the same with the majorty of the team
and then you would have summerhilll games during the week

saywhatyousee

theoneeyedman wrote: »

And one bad game v Down too when they conceded what....22 points or something? This means they had 'bad games' in 2 of their 4 (5 including a replay when they only had one "bad half") .....teams are defined by championship performances and Sligo sh1t on the eggs this year when they had any expectation on them, only performed when they were underdogs v Galway and mayo

roscommon caught sligo on the hop that day
where roscommon the better team on the day? yes they where
are roscommon a better team than sligo overall?no i think a lot of neutrals would agree with me

rossie1977

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

But they were the best team in the Provincial Championships in Connacht. Roscommon had an easy route to the final. Sligo beat the top 2. Had one bad match against Roscommon. They lost to All-Ireland finalists whereas Galway lost to Wexford.

Don't get me wrong, Roscommon had a great year. They played a respectable match against Cork. When they start beating Galway and Mayo in one year I will proclaim them the best Connacht side of that year.

lol you have to be kidding, you can only beat what is put in front of you and roscommon did that, they beat sligo where mayo and galway could not, they won the cup, sligo did not

roscommon beat galway and mayo in 2001, i didn't hear any galway fans like yourself proclaiming roscommon best side in connaught that year

roscommon also beat sligo in this years under 21 connaught final and roscommons club champions st bridgets just beat the sligo club champions by 17 points today