Upcoming Autumn Internationals

borna7

What are the big selections and decisions that will be made in the upcoming internationals. For me the most fascinating areas are as follows

1/Front row

All the places seem up for grabs and can't say I'd put a fortune on who will be selected in the first match against South Africa. It seems tighthead is a straight choice between Buckley and Ross. Buckley was a plus in the summer so suppose deserves another go. The big decision I feel for Kidney is loosehead. With Healy not currently starting for Leinster will he stick with him or go for Court. Court has been in good form for Ulster and is the stronger scrummager and hope he gets a go. Hooker I feel depends on Flannery's fitness. If not it's Best or Cronin.

2/Seven

Feel now is the time to launch Sean O'Brien. Wallace isn't getting any younger and O'Brien if he's an option for the world cup needs the experience of these internations now.

3/Scrum half

This is an area of weakness. No idea who I would select now O'Leary is injured. Stringer, Boss and Redden none inspire confidence in me.

4/Inside Centre

The question of last few seasons remains. Wallace or D'Arcy. Personally prefer Wallace for his distribution skills and the fact he's been in good form for Ulster when the Irish management are not forcing him to play ten.

5/Second Row

With O'Connell out who is the partner for O'Callaghan. Just don't think MO'D is international class and really hope Deccie will consider Bob Casey at least for the bench. Toner, Tuohy and Donnacha Ryan are also in the frame. Tuohy been quiet for Ulster but given he got capped in the winter if he can put in a performance in Biarritz may get the call

6/Back Three

Bowe is a given provided they don't want to give him a go at outside centre. Then 2 from 3 of Fitzgerald, Earls and Kearney. This is a really tough call. Think Fitz should definately play as his all round skill set is superb. Then I'd probably take Kearney for the South Africa game as they do play a high bomb game

Podge_irl

borna7 wrote: »

1/Front row

All the places seem up for grabs and can't say I'd put a fortune on who will be selected in the first match against South Africa. It seems tighthead is a straight choice between Buckley and Ross. Buckley was a plus in the summer so suppose deserves another go. The big decision I feel for Kidney is loosehead. With Healy not currently starting for Leinster will he stick with him or go for Court. Court has been in good form for Ulster and is the stronger scrummager and hope he gets a go. Hooker I feel depends on Flannery's fitness. If not it's Best or Cronin.

I'd prefer Ross right now - Buckley would be some impact player. Not overly concerned which starts though as long as Buckley keeps up the improvement he showed in the scrums. Court is the better bet for loosehead as long as Healy isn't starting for Leinster, though his versatility may see him relegated to the bench again. I haven't seen Best play much this season, but I'm a big fan of Cronin.

borna7 wrote: »

2/Seven

Feel now is the time to launch Sean O'Brien. Wallace isn't getting any younger and O'Brien if he's an option for the world cup needs the experience of these internations now.

Definitely agree. SOB is some player. The improvement in his handling this season is great to see.

borna7 wrote: »

3/Scrum half

This is an area of weakness. No idea who I would select now O'Leary is injured. Stringer, Boss and Redden none inspire confidence in me.

**** it, I wouldn't have a clue who to select if TOL wasn't injured. He's playing awful rugby. There's a depressing selection available. Mixing Reddan and Boss seems to work to a degree for Leinster.

borna7 wrote: »

The question of last few seasons remains. Wallace or D'Arcy. Personally prefer Wallace for his distribution skills and the fact he's been in good form for Ulster when the Irish management are not forcing him to play ten.

Either/or. I imagine they'll share starts in the AIs. Would like to see what Wallace/Sexton could do though.

borna7 wrote: »

5/Second Row

With O'Connell out who is the partner for O'Callaghan. Just don't think MO'D is international class and really hope Deccie will consider Bob Casey at least for the bench. Toner, Tuohy and Donnacha Ryan are also in the frame. Tuohy been quiet for Ulster but given he got capped in the winter if he can put in a performance in Biarritz may get the call

If Cullen is fit he simply has to start.

borna7 wrote: »

6/Back Three

Bowe is a given provided they don't want to give him a go at outside centre. Then 2 from 3 of Fitzgerald, Earls and Kearney. This is a really tough call. Think Fitz should definately play as his all round skill set is superb. Then I'd probably take Kearney for the South Africa game as they do play a high bomb game

Hard to know. I can't see Earls not starting, but I'd still be happier with Fitz and Kearney there. It looks like a straight shootout between Fitz and Earls though, as I can't see anyone other than Kearney at 15 and Bowe at 14.

thomond2006

South Africa - 6th Nov
Samoa - 13th Nov
New Zealand - 20th Nov
Argentina - 28th Nov

I would like to see some rotation, not for rotations' sake but where there is genuine competition for places to give all the options a go. The All Blacks should be the only game IMO where we play all our first choice players. We have lots of players who deserve a chance to earn their stripes. The team to play Samoa should effectively be an Ireland A selection.

I don't want the likes of BOD playing all the games as they did last year which I thought was pointless.

Front Row
I think Court and Buckley are looking good to be first choice props with Healy and Ross as reserves. I want Ross to get one start (not including Samoa). Hayes should not be in the squad.
Fla will be first choice if fit with Best and Cronin as backup.

Second Row
DOC and Cullen to be first choice if Cullen is match fit. Casey IMO is too old to invest in now. Toner and Tuohy to be their backup but Tuohy needs more games with Ulster.

Back Row
Ferris and Heaslip are a shoe in if fit with Wallace and SOB to fight it out for the seven jersey. Like the Ross situation I think SOB should get one start, either at 6 or 7. Jennings to be involved at some stage too. I can see Kidney looking at Leamy even though he hasn't been that great.

Scrum Half
The worrying position. Reddan is probably first choice with Strings on the bench.

Fly Half
Sexton as first choice with ROG as backup. Wouldn't mind Keatley starting against Samoa.

Centres
D'Arcy and Wallace should be a horses for courses call at 12. BOD obviously at 13 but Earls should get a game there (again not including Samoa). McFadden to be capped vs Samoa.

Wing
Fitzgerald, Bowe and Earls there I suppose. Oh please Deccie cap Carr ffs.

Fullback
Kearney, Murphy and Duffy in that order.

So my first choice team would be:

Court
Flannery
Buckley
DOC
Cullen
Ferris
Wallace
Heaslip
Reddan
Sexton
Fitzgerald
D'Arcy
BOD
Bowe
Kearney

Best
Healy
Ross (If 23 man squad)
Toner
SOB
Stringer
ROG
Murphy

Podge_irl

thomond2006 wrote: »

Court
Flannery
Buckley
DOC
Cullen
Ferris
Wallace
Heaslip
Reddan
Sexton
Fitzgerald
D'Arcy
BOD
Bowe
Kearney

Healy
Ross (If 23 man squad)
Toner
SOB
Stringer
ROG
Murphy

Earls? Ahead of Murphy on the bench maybe. Hard to see him out of the 22 altogether.

Morf

Wouldn't Best be considered first choice hooker considering Flannery hasn't played and he's the strongest scrummaging hooker in a relatively weak front row in that regard?

JustinDee

thomond2006 wrote: »

Fly Half
Sexton as first choice with ROG as backup. Wouldn't mind Keatley starting against Samoa

I'm fairly positive that ROG will start against the Springboks. He's playing well at the moment. Sexton will be the run-on.
Then I'd say Sexton to bring in a new element vs Noo Zulland.

Horses for courses.

thomond2006

JustinDee wrote: »

I'm fairly positive that ROG will start against the Springboks. He's playing well at the moment. Sexton will be the run-on.
Then I'd say Sexton to bring in a new element vs Noo Zulland.

Horses for courses.

Just to be clear, what I posted were my opinions, not what I think will happen.

I agree that ROG will start against the Springboks. I have a feeling that Kidney will always plump for ROG in a 50/50 call. The problem with that is Sexton is likely to be given a start against Samoa instead of giving a third fly-half a game.

Hippo

thomond2006 wrote: »

I agree that ROG will start against the Springboks. I have a feeling that Kidney will always plump for ROG in a 50/50 call. The problem with that is Sexton is likely to be given a start against Samoa instead of giving a third fly-half a game.

If, and it's a big if, Sexton is able to take his place kicks then I think it's nowhere near a 50/50 call and that he must start against SA.

...although I'm aware of where this could take the thread

outwest

Hippo wrote: »

If, and it's a big if, Sexton is able to take his place kicks then I think it's nowhere near a 50/50 call and that he must start against SA.

...although I'm aware of where this could take the thread

in my opinion, wallace will start at 12 with sexton 10.

although if sexton still aint taking kicks he shouldnt be considered.

JustinDee

Hippo wrote: »

If, and it's a big if, Sexton is able to take his place kicks then I think it's nowhere near a 50/50 call and that he must start against SA.

...although I'm aware of where this could take the thread

ROG to start vs Bokke whether Sexton fully fit or not. Thats what I'd select anyway.

Podge_irl

JustinDee wrote: »

Horses for courses.

There is no course where ROG is the better fly half at the moment.

The only reason I can see for ROG starting would be if Sexton's injury hasn't cleared up sufficiently to allow him to kick.

ROG is playing well at the moment, but Sexton simply brings so much more to the team that I can't see any reason not to start him.

rockman15

given his performance last weekend i think bob casey has to start. its a toss up between him and cullen. neither are exactlly spring chickens and with leo only getting his first real game of the season this coming weekend, casey should be included. for me there are no other VIABLE alternatives for an international match against SA and NZ. for the others id be suprised if deccie didnt experiment.

i know nothing about the front row so im staying out of it.

the sexton/ o'gara debate is going to divide irish rugby fans for 2 more years. personally (oh god here it goes) i think ROG should be given the SA game. Sexton did the game this time last year and did very well i think we would all agree. But NZ are different challenege altogether and I think Sexton needs to prove he can step up to the biggest challenge mentally and physically, in rugby at the moment. Based on the tri-nations performance of the kiwis they will target the 10 channel off lineouts with nonu. We cant leak here anymore. Even last weekend London Irish picked out ROG as a weak link in defense and caused the inside centre to come across draggiing the line. Against NZ that is suicidal as currently, they are the best wide finishers in the world (French come close mind you). As previously discussed all over this forum, they each offer distinct and contrasting attacking options, but we cant win a game if we leak points.

The other problem that this links to is the 9 selection. Sexton has test experience with Reddan and Boss. These connections grow on a weekly basis. Id be worried about ROG and these two. Case to bring back Stringer if ROG starts. As an individual 9 Stringer is a great impact player for fast ball and those sniping runs. Boss and Reddan dont do either of those things as well.

JustinDee

Podge_irl wrote: »

There is no course where ROG is the better fly half at the moment.

The only reason I can see for ROG starting would be if Sexton's injury hasn't cleared up sufficiently to allow him to kick.

ROG is playing well at the moment, but Sexton simply brings so much more to the team that I can't see any reason not to start him.

Without this going into the usual bileous ROG v Sexton bilge, I'd start ROG because he's well used to playing against the Boks, is in form, is kicking well from hand.
Sexton, if it was me, would start against New Zealand because they've never played him, is in form with ball in hand, is three weeks later so should be recovered for kicking.
Just squad Management with all factors considered: Win Nov test in question, develop further the competition for places in the Six Nations and in turn squad for RWC.
It all leads to the RWC.

Luckycharm

If sexton kicking is fine this w/end - I see absoluetly no reason why ROG would start against the BOKs or NZ. The munster backline has been blunt this year as he offer no threat - not to mention his defensive weaknesses. The difference in the Leisnter backline since Sexton has been back has been huge- he made an immediate impact against Munster.

Jamie Hagan the prop at Connacht is someone to watch would not be surprised to see him involved in one of the games.

LeeroyJones

I've been going through the names that potentially will make our 30 man squad in the World Cup and there are quite a few, more than I imagined who are pretty much set in stone to be at the World Cup barring injuries etc...
Surely Kidney must pick the AI squad with the WC in mind

Loose Head
Horan
Healy

Hooker
Flannery
Best
Cronin 90% there, unlikely IMO Varley/Fogarty will dislodge him

Tight Head
Buckley
Versatile Court or on form Mike Ross(should he prove his recent form is a step up in quality as opposed to a purple patch)


2nd Row
POC
DOC
Cullen and Ryan my favourites to get the other slots ahead of Casey, MOD, Tuohy & EOD as Cullen has proven himself at all levels really and Kidney picks him! Ryan has a great shout for his verstility in the back 5.

Back Row
Ferris
Heaslip
Wallace
IMO the most interesting battle for 2 World Cup shirts-SOB, Jennings, Leamy Henry, Muldoon (written in no particular order), you could even throw Ronan and McLaughlin in with a shout too

Scrum Halves
TOL
Reddan
Boss -v- Stringer for 3rd scrum half slot

Out Halves
Sexton
ROG

Centres
BOD
D'arcy
Wallace
Earls
Would love McFadden to get in there but limited gametime it would be hard to see him get in there

Back 3
Fitzgerald
Bowe
Kearney
G Murphy
Another interesting one IMO, Johne Murphy-v-Trimble-v-Duffy-v-Carr

padser

Good thread

borna7 wrote: »

1/Front row

I think we now have 4 viable prop options, Buckley & Ross, Healy & Court with potentially Horan and Hagan to come into the reckoning.

We also have 2 good hookers in Fla / Best.

Personally I would like to see our front row rotated as a unit on 50 / 60 mins with Buckley and Healy never playing together in same scrum.

First choice to start for me would be Healy, Ross and Fla (although I pick Ross over Buckley for the reason above of keeping Healy and Buckley apart).

It's terrible from an Irish perspective to see Healy not getting first choice rugby at Leinster and (even as a Leinster fan) I think in a WC year IRFU should step in to ensure he gets good game in critical games (he needs the experience)

borna7 wrote: »

2/Seven

With Wally not getting picked ahead of Ronan (who I don't really rate as an international, same with Jennings) the space seems wide open for O'Brien - although I have been impressed by Leamy and the rule changes might make him a more viable 7 than previously.

Especially if Leamy gets a run of unbroken games (he has been out for quite a while over last 2 yrs) I think we have 2 good options at 7 which should leave us with a genuinely world class backrow of JH, SF, SOB / DL - with a great bench as well.

borna7 wrote: »

3/Scrum half

You know in some of our decisions (like backrow, back three, even outhalf) I think we are in the envious position of 'no bad options'. We might not agree with Decie, but we get great players onto the pitch.

Not so at scrumhalf, we have one scrumhalf as bad as the next.

I think I would put Stringer on the bench, as he offers something different (although not excited about him and O'Gara being on at the same time from a defensive point of view) and a fit TOL would just about make it, with TOL out I am genuinely indifferent as to whether its Redden or Boss. Honestly, there are equally good reasons not to pick either of them!

borna7 wrote: »

4/Inside Centre

I'm a little controversial on this one, but I would give serious consideration to moving BOD to inside centre. Mainly because I don't think he is the same attacking force at 13 he was even two years ago, partly because I think that would let us put Bowe / Earls at 13 which would effectively let us get one of Fitz / Earls / Carr / Kearney onto the pitch instead of Darcy / Wallace which I think would be a net gain.

If BOD stays at 13, I agree that Darcy / Wallace should be horses for courses, although unfortunately the loser can not be in the 22

borna7 wrote: »

5/Second Row

Cullen fit has to be third choice behind DOC and POC. There would be some argument that he would be first choice ahead of DOC but for me DOC / POC to start with Cullen on the bench.

I think these 3 locks are miles (about 100 to be precise) ahead of any other second rows we have.

I think Casey should have been given time last year, I still think he may offer enough to be brought in. Put it this way, if we had 4 Locks in our WC squad, at the moment I would put Casey as clear 4th choice.

Obviously I watch Leinster more than other teams and Toner is really putting his hand up, but he is miles away from international level still, as is Ryan, MOD etc.

borna7 wrote: »

6/Back Three

Defintely an area with no bad options. 5 people (Bowe, Earls, Kearney, Fitz, Carr) assuming BOD is at 13.

Personally I think Fitz needs to play at full back ahead of Kearney - the new rules interpretation means full backs are constantly running back at defenders, for us that should be Fitz rather than Kearney. However Fitz needs time at FB for Leinster.

Bowe is a no brainer on one wing (or I think to replace BOD at centre is BOD is at 12).

Personally I think Carr is the stand out candidate for the other wing. Again the rule changes are helping him, he needs to be given 2 games in the AI, Samoa and one other. Ireland have no other player with this kind of pace and finishing ability.

In my ideal back line its

11 Earls
12 BOD
13 Bowe
14 Carr
15 Fitz

Replacement: Kearney

borna7 wrote: »

7/(added in) Outhalf

For me it's a reasonably easy choice to pick Sexton - but I may have blue tinted glasses on.

O Gara does offer more at tactical kicking - and honestly if its 79 mins gone and a 40 yard penalty with Ireland 2 points down, I would rather its O'Gara taking it. Overall though, Sexton for me.

JustinDee

padser wrote: »

In my ideal back line its

11 Earls
12 BOD
13 Bowe
14 Carr
15 Fitz

Replacement: Kearney

Don't have time for whole team but will do the outside backs for now.

11. Fitzgerald
12. d'Arcy
13. O'Driscoll
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

Replacements: Wallace, G.Murphy.

Sunset V

JustinDee wrote: »

Don't have time for whole team but will do the outside backs for now.

11. Fitzgerald
12. d'Arcy
13. O'Driscoll
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

Replacements: Wallace, G.Murphy.

I would go for something slightly different but the same at the same time I guess:

15: Kearney
14: Bowe
13: BOD
12: Wallace
11: Trimble
10: Sexton
9: Boss / Reddan

Replacements: Fitzgerald, Earls

I like Trimble's style.

little173

Sunset V wrote: »

I would go for something slightly different but the same at the same time I guess:

15: Kearney
14: Bowe
13: BOD
12: Wallace
11: Trimble
10: Sexton
9: Boss / Reddan

Replacements: Fitzgerald, Earls

I like Trimble's style.

Kearney
Bowe
BOD
Darce
Earls
Sexton
Reddan

I accept points about about Kearney, his runnign game needs to improve, esp with new laws, but his error count is still so low that I would rather him for the big games. I believe Earls will prob be the long term 13 and shades Fitz for the other wing spot.

Darce strength at making yards and go forward is so invaluable that he cant be left out imo.

Riskymove

I really cannot believe how many people are not selecting Fitzgerald!! yez are insane!!

My views on teams for the big games - samoa & argies could be different

Loose Head
Healy

Horan on bench

Hooker
Flannery

Best on bench

Tight Head
Buckley

Mike Ross - on bench - needs to step up now

2nd Row
DOC
Cullen if fit

Ryan on bench


Back Row
Ferris
Heaslip
Wallace - rotation with SOB

Bench SOB, Jennings, Leamy, Henry

Muldoon's chance has gone when he got injured - now too many ahead of him

Scrum Halves
Reddan

Boss on bench

I'd like to see stringer but unlikely imo

Out Halves
Sexton if he can kick, otherwise ROG

bench - ROG

Centres
BOD -the usual problem, do we really need to see him in AIs?

D'arcy the likely partner

bench - Earls he gives more options across the back, athough not fully back to form, than wallace although wallace may have to be in to cover kicking duties


Back 3
Fitzgerald
Bowe
Kearney

I'd like to see J Murphy on the bench, he has impressed me thus far

rockman15

padser wrote: »

Good thread




Obviously I watch Leinster more than other teams and Toner is really putting his hand up, but he is miles away from international level still, as is Ryan, MOD etc.

Toner is terrible at the breakdown. His body form at rucks is awful, big arch in his back, legs locked out...he has never tackled low....simply too tall for playing against teams that dominate us at the breakdown already. only strength is the lineout. stick him up against matfield and see how victor likes that!

AbusesToilets

Any opinions on trying D'arcy at 13 for one of the lesser tests, perhaps with Wallace inside him? With the prospect of BOD struggling with injuries this reason, i think that this could be the best alternative to BOD/D'Arcy axis. Read on here before that people feel D'Arcy could make an excellent 13. Just a thought. Also I would love to see a back 3 of Bowe, Fitzgerald and Carr.

thebaz

great to see SOB back to top form, following a slow start after injury - DOC seams to be struggling for form IMO - not the player he was - i think he needs a long rest prior to WC.
Darcy is coming back to form , but the midfield partner for O'Driscoll is a challenge - i'd love to see Luke give it a go , or Bowe

danthefan

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Any opinions on trying D'arcy at 13 for one of the lesser tests, perhaps with Wallace inside him? With the prospect of BOD struggling with injuries this reason, i think that this could be the best alternative to BOD/D'Arcy axis. Read on here before that people feel D'Arcy could make an excellent 13. Just a thought. Also I would love to see a back 3 of Bowe, Fitzgerald and Carr.

Hasn't worked in recent seasons when he has actually played there. If it wasn't for BOD he would have gone on to be an excellent 13 but he's a 12 now and that's that as far as I'm concerned.

CatFromHue

i'd be happy for him (darcy) to fill in at 13 for a game at least.

if we have a first choice 10, 12, 13 of sexton/o gara, darcy/wallace, and bod with wallace covering 10 and 12 it makes sense to have darcy able to cover 12 and 13.

there is an argument for duffy and earls at 13, well duffy only cos thats where the irish management seem to want to play him but id say he is much happier at 15.

earls is a funny player though, how many games has he played at 13 does anyone know?

i cant remember the last time darcy played 13 but its certainly where he made his initial name for himself on the international scene and to some degree even the leinster scene.

i dont think the experiment of playing luke fitz at 12 was a success and doesnt need to be tried again. im much happier with him on the wing battling it out with trimble or earls.

danthefan

CatFromHue wrote: »

i dont think the experiment of playing luke fitz at 12 was a success and doesnt need to be tried again. im much happier with him on the wing battling it out with trimble or earls.

That's that so.

P_1

Right I see these 4 matches as the ideal chance to bed in the squad for the World Cup and also to build for the future. With that in mind, I think 2 distinct panels should be considered, one for the NZ/SA matches and one for the Argies/Samoa match.

NZ/SA

Front Row:
Healy, Court
Best, Cronin, Flannery
Buckley, Ross

Second Row:
O'Callaghan, Cullen, Casey

Back Row:
Ferris, Muldoon
Wallace, O'Brien, Jennings
Heaslip, Leamy

Half Backs:
Boss, Reddan, Stringer
Sexton, O'Gara

Centers:
O'Driscoll, D'Arcy, Earls, Wallace

Back Three:
Fitzgerald, Bowe, Trimble
Kearney, Duffy, Murphy


Argies/Samoa

Front Row:
Horan, Young
Varley, Brady
Hagan, Andress

Second Row:
Toner, Ryan, O'Donoghue, Caudwell

Back Row:
Henry, Ryan, Ruddock
Falloon, O'Connor, Ronan
Coughlan, McCommish

Half Backs:
Murphy, Williams
Keatley, Humphries, O'Connor

Centers:
McFadden, Downey, Cave, Matthews, Murphy

Back Three:
Carr, Conway, Whitten,
Smith

PhatPiggins

Did you really mean to include McCommish?

P_1

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Did you really mean to include McCommish?

Well he is doing well for Connacht, also was pretty much running out of names at that point

thomond2006

pithater1 wrote: »

Argies/Samoa

Half Backs:
Murphy, Williams
Keatley, Humphries, O'Connor

Duncan Williams to get a cap against Argentina/Samoa?

You may as well hand out caps if you buy 10 crisp packets!

I just can't agree with caps being handed out like you suggest, you've mentioned lots of players who wouldn't make a decent Ireland A panel. It certainly won't turn out that way. I'd expect no more than 30 players to see gametime in the autumn.

PhatPiggins

thomond2006 wrote: »

Duncan Williams to get a cap against Argentina/Samoa?

You may as well hand out caps if you buy 10 crisp packets!

I just can't agree with caps being handed out like you suggest, you've mentioned lots of players who wouldn't make a decent Ireland A panel. It certainly won't turn out that way. I'd expect no more than 30 players to see gametime in the autumn.

I actually kind off agree with him. Why not try out as many players as possible. What else are the AI's for? You'll find out quickly enough if a player is good enough and worth persisting with. Look at how many new caps the SH teams hand out in the AI's and the summer tests. It'll never happen though.

profitius

Theres plenty of players mentioned there who are not up to international standard. Ronan, MOD, Henry, Varley, Ed O'Donohue and Horan is looking a shadow of his former self. No point giving out caps to players who have not much to add to the squad.

PhatPiggins

profitius wrote: »

Theres plenty of players mentioned there who are not up to international standard. Ronan, MOD, Henry, Varley, Ed O'Donohue and Horan is looking a shadow of his former self. No point giving out caps to players who have not much to add to the squad.

I wasn't agreeing with his list just supporting the notion that we should cap as many promising players as possible in what are essentially friendlies.

Henry/Varley/O Donohue are easily good enough or will be in the near future.

P_1

I agree I may have been guilty of just listing an inventory of all Ireland's available players there

profitius wrote: »

Theres plenty of players mentioned there who are not up to international standard. Ronan, MOD, Henry, Varley, Ed O'Donohue and Horan is looking a shadow of his former self. No point giving out caps to players who have not much to add to the squad.

Quoting my previous post, with an eye towards the future, the bolded players are those who should get some gametime in the AI's, certainly against Samoa and possibly against Argentina.

pithater1 wrote: »

Right I see these 4 matches as the ideal chance to bed in the squad for the World Cup and also to build for the future. With that in mind, I think 2 distinct panels should be considered, one for the NZ/SA matches and one for the Argies/Samoa match.

NZ/SA

Front Row:
Healy, Court
Best, Cronin, Flannery
Buckley, Ross

Second Row:
O'Callaghan, Cullen, Casey

Back Row:
Ferris, Muldoon
Wallace, O'Brien, Jennings
Heaslip, Leamy

Half Backs:
Boss, Reddan, Stringer
Sexton, O'Gara

Centers:
O'Driscoll, D'Arcy, Earls, Wallace

Back Three:
Fitzgerald, Bowe, Trimble
Kearney, Duffy, Murphy


Argies/Samoa

Front Row:
Horan, Young
Varley, Brady
Hagan, Andress

Second Row:
Toner, Ryan, O'Donoghue, Caudwell

Back Row:
Henry, Ryan, Ruddock
Falloon, O'Connor, Ronan
Coughlan, McCommish

Half Backs:
Murphy, Williams
Keatley, Humphries, O'Connor

Centers:
McFadden, Downey, Cave, Matthews, Murphy

Back Three:
Carr, Conway, Whitten,
Smith

Podge_irl

pithater1 wrote: »

Right I see these 4 matches as the ideal chance to bed in the squad for the World Cup and also to build for the future. With that in mind, I think 2 distinct panels should be considered, one for the NZ/SA matches and one for the Argies/Samoa match.

The RWC is a 30 man squad and I expect to see Kidney use something similar for these 4 matches. He won't be handing out caps for fun.

JustinDee

Squad for Guinness Series will be announced next Tuesday (19th) around lunchtime.

twinytwo

Riskymove wrote: »

I really cannot believe how many people are not selecting Fitzgerald!! yez are insane!!

My views on teams for the big games - samoa & argies could be different

Loose Head
Healy

Horan on bench

Hooker
Flannery

Best on bench

Tight Head
Buckley

Mike Ross - on bench - needs to step up now

2nd Row
DOC
Cullen if fit

Ryan on bench


Back Row
Ferris
Heaslip
Wallace - rotation with SOB

Bench SOB, Jennings, Leamy, Henry

Muldoon's chance has gone when he got injured - now too many ahead of him

Scrum Halves
Reddan

Boss on bench

I'd like to see stringer but unlikely imo

Out Halves
Sexton if he can kick, otherwise ROG

bench - ROG

Centres
BOD -the usual problem, do we really need to see him in AIs?

D'arcy the likely partner

bench - Earls he gives more options across the back, athough not fully back to form, than wallace although wallace may have to be in to cover kicking duties


Back 3
Fitzgerald
Bowe
Kearney

I'd like to see J Murphy on the bench, he has impressed me thus far

No we dont.. its not worth risking him on the AI's when we are going to need him for the WC. But then i wouldnt play many of the older/experienced guys. Let the younger guys play, get some experience etc so we can see whats what before the wc

stephen_n

These matches should be used for a little bit of experimentation and not just in the sense of the names on the team sheet. I would like to see Ferris tried at second row in one of the matches as we are producing a lot of 6's at the moment but no second rows are really demanding selection outside of the established ones. Also would like to see Bod stepping in at 12 with either Bowe or earls outside him. Don't think any of this will happen but I think that is what these matches should be used for in the build up to a world cup!

padser

PhatPiggins wrote: »

I actually kind off agree with him. Why not try out as many players as possible. What else are the AI's for? You'll find out quickly enough if a player is good enough and worth persisting with. Look at how many new caps the SH teams hand out in the AI's and the summer tests. It'll never happen though.

There are three distinct reasons not to give out shed loads of caps

1) In order to make capping a player a useful exercise they need to play in what is at least 80% a senior Irish team. That means for example you could try maybe 2 to 3 new players in the starting XV and another 2 on the bench. If you play 8 or 9 new caps in a game against Samoa, what you essentially get is an Irish A side playing the equivalent of Irish A opposition. So you don't really learn whether the new caps can actually play in a full Irish team

2) Really you need a player to play in at least 2 or 3 internationals to really get an idea of where they are at. Especially if you believe point 1, you can't look properly at more than 3 or 4 'new' players

3) There are at least 24 (Ross, Buckley, Best, Flannery, Healy, Court, DOC, Cullen, SOB, Leamy, Ferris, Heaslip, D Wallace, O Gara, Sexton, Redden, Boss, Darcy, BOD, P Wallace, Earls, Fitz, Kearney, Bowe) frontline players that need gametime (I have tried to only pick the most uncontroversial, I'v left quite a few out). Just giving all these guys time in a relatively settled team uses up most of the spots we have over the four games.

JustinDee

stephen_n wrote: »

I would like to see Ferris tried at second row in one of the matches as we are producing a lot of 6's at the moment but no second rows are really demanding selection outside of the established ones

Strange selection and reasoning.
You won't see him in at lock. He's one of the best backrowers in the game. Thats where you play him. At his best position.

little173

Without going over old ground here, we just dont have the big pool of players to be experimenting to a huge extent in these AI. And I am always very suspicious of looking to the WC too much, our player base is not like other major nations where we can have 2 top quality players for each position.
I digress a little but look at the Out halves England have for instance, Wilkinson, Flood, Lamb, Geraty, Hodgson, Cipriani, Walder, Vesty, etc etc. My point is that we need to manage our small player base and build a winning side that is the only way we can possibly win a WC.

So for SA and NZ we simply have to go all out to win, nothing else, best XV. For Argentina, almost that but only just under and maybe a marginal slection call. So that leaves Samoa, well you can try a few fellas for that but there is no experimenting during 6N so that is kind of their only chance.

profitius

little173 wrote: »

Without going over old ground here, we just dont have the big pool of players to be experimenting to a huge extent in these AI. And I am always very suspicious of looking to the WC too much, our player base is not like other major nations where we can have 2 top quality players for each position.
I digress a little but look at the Out halves England have for instance, Wilkinson, Flood, Lamb, Geraty, Hodgson, Cipriani, Walder, Vesty, etc etc. My point is that we need to manage our small player base and build a winning side that is the only way we can possibly win a WC.

So for SA and NZ we simply have to go all out to win, nothing else, best XV. For Argentina, almost that but only just under and maybe a marginal slection call. So that leaves Samoa, well you can try a few fellas for that but there is no experimenting during 6N so that is kind of their only chance.

I agree but we still have to find out are some players capable of playing international rugby. I'd take a chance on players who are unproven at the top level but have plenty of potential. Hagan, Keatley and Carr for example.

There should also be some rotating of the team and squad. What EOS done was madness and idiotic and went against the theory that he is a good coach.

bamboozle

i think we'll see Kidney trying out conbinations in the backrow between Muldoon & Ferris, Heaslip & Leamy, SOB, Jennings & Wallace.

As long as Hayes is no where near the squad it'll be a good starting point for me. I've also got a feeling in my bones that flannery's body is past it and hooker is between Best and Cronin.

Scrum half, Reddan and Boss.
Back 3 - Kearney, Fitz, Bowe the incumbents
Earls, trimble, G. Murphy, Carr the pretenders

hope to see Carr get a much deserved cap this november.

LeeroyJones

We don't have brilliant depth, but we do have a substantial amount. If you call the following the 1st XV

1.Healy
2.Flannery
3.Buckley
4.DOC
5.POC
6.Ferris
7.Wallace
8.Heaslip

9.Reddan
10.Sexton
11.Fitz
12.D'arcy
13.BOD
14.Bowe
15.Kearney

our 2nd XV aint bad at all

1.Horan
2.Best
3.Court
4.Cullen
5.Casey
6.SOB
7.Jennings
8.Henry

9.TOL
10.ROG
11.Trimble
12.Wallace
13.Earls
14.Carr
15.G Murphy

Not many 2nd XVs can boast the individual honours that those lads have. And also, that's leaving out the likes of Duffy, Ryan, Cronin, McFadden, Muldoon, Stringer, Leamy & McLaughlin etc

I really don't think we should be venturing outside these names at all as suggested in some posts. We have a good strong pool of 40ish and that's what should be concentrated on

outwest

sawp the 15 and in the 2nd team, swap court for healy and ross in

thomond2006

JustinDee wrote: »

Squad for Guinness Series will be announced next Tuesday (19th) around lunchtime.

Thanks for letting us know.

CatFromHue

stephen_n wrote: »

I would like to see Ferris tried at second row in one of the matches as we are producing a lot of 6's at the moment but no second rows are really demanding selection outside of the established ones. QUOTE]

i just noticed that ryan jones is starting at second row for the ospreys against london irish

i do agree there should be a little bit of experimentation but just that, a little bit.

remember we are playing new zealand, who we've never beaten and the last time we played they put 60 odd on us, argentina which has become a bit of a grudge match and will be far from easy, south africa who while they have had a bad season are still relatively handy.

if we put out a team with 5/6 new caps against any of these teams we will prob get beaten badly.

we are a year out from the world cup so its time to start thinking about who is actually going. to keep me from doing some study i dug out the team sheet for england v new zealand in the autumn international of 2002 and englands team sheet for the final of teh world cup in 2003.

england v new zealand 2002
Jason Robinson; James Simpson-Daniel, Will Greenwood, Mike Tindall, Ben Cohen; Jonny Wilkinson, Matt Dawson; Lawrence Dallaglio, Richard Hill, Lewis Moody, Danny Grewcock, Martin Johnson (captain), Phil Vickery, Steve Thompson, Trevor Woodman.

enagland v australia 2003
J Lewsey, J Robinson, W Greenwood, M Tindall, B Cohen; J Wilkinson, M Dawson; T Woodman, S Thompson, P Vickery; M Johnson; (capt), B Kay; Richard Hill, N Back, L Dallaglio

thats 1 change in the backs and 2 in the forwards.

in my opinion we should be aiming to build up some momentuum get a settled side and go for it. confidence is a huge factor in winning.

after this weekend we'll see a bit more about how certain players are coming along i.e. mike ross, buckley, donnacha ryan, in particular

jolley123

1.Front Row

Don't really think Court has a chance of getting in ahead of Healy, the only reason Healy doesn't start for Leinster is 1. Van der Merwe is a wrecking ball in the scrum and 2 His broken play skills have a real impact when the game breaks down so it makes sense for him to come on fresh late in the game. I think Hagan should be given some gametime but yeh either ross or buckley.

2. Second row

Cullen will be in i'm pretty sure if he's not MOD i guess.

3. Back row

SOB will get solid game time at 6 because of Ferris' injury. Can you imagine a back row of Ferris, SOB and Heaslip....i can only hope.

4. scrum-half

Out of Boss/Reddan/stringer i would want reddan on, with maybe the introduction of Boss as the game wears on. When Leinster did it against Racing it seemed to work really well.

5. Inside centre

Much prefer Darce over Wallace but Wallace and Sexton are supposed to be a great combination.

6.Back 3

11. Fitz 14.Bowe 15.Kearney......it's the best option, but i would like to see a game where Earls goes 11 and Fitz goes 15 or even a straight swap of Kearney and Fitz although i don't think Kearney has the pace.

twinytwo

jolley123 wrote: »

1.Front Row

Don't really think Court has a chance of getting in ahead of Healy, the only reason Healy doesn't start for Leinster is 1. Van der Merwe is a wrecking ball in the scrum and 2 His broken play skills have a real impact when the game breaks down so it makes sense for him to come on fresh late in the game. I think Hagan should be given some gametime but yeh either ross or buckley.

2. Second row

Cullen will be in i'm pretty sure if he's not MOD i guess.

3. Back row

SOB will get solid game time at 6 because of Ferris' injury. Can you imagine a back row of Ferris, SOB and Heaslip....i can only hope.

4. scrum-half

Out of Boss/Reddan/stringer i would want reddan on, with maybe the introduction of Boss as the game wears on. When Leinster did it against Racing it seemed to work really well.

5. Inside centre

Much prefer Darce over Wallace but Wallace and Sexton are supposed to be a great combination.

6.Back 3

11. Fitz 14.Bowe 15.Kearney......it's the best option, but i would like to see a game where Earls goes 11 and Fitz goes 15 or even a straight swap of Kearney and Fitz although i don't think Kearney has the pace.

A back 3 of earls, bowe and fitz would be awesome

antogz1979

twinytwo wrote: »

A back 3 of earls, bowe and fitz would be awesome

That is the way forward and the sooner the better. Kearney's days in an Irish jersey looked numbered

irishbucsfan

antogz1979 wrote: »

That is the way forward and the sooner the better. Kearney's days in an Irish jersey looked numbered

Thats crazy talk. Kearney has been one of Leinster's best player's this season and is still regarded as one of the best full backs in the world. If anything, the way forward is Earls at 13.