25 points extra for HL Maths in LC 2012

readystudypass

http://www.independent.ie/education/latest-news/students-to-get-25point-bonus--for-passing-honours-maths-2374762.html

BL1993

Does that mean if you get 6 A1s (all higher) in the LC in 2012 including an A1 in maths, you'll get 625 points? Or is 600 the cut off point?

garv123

BL1993 wrote: »

Does that mean if you get 6 A1s (all higher) in the LC in 2012 including an A1 in maths, you'll get 625 points? Or is 600 the cut off point?

presume it wont matter as none of the courses will go over 600 anyway.

jumpguy

Honestly can't believe it, and for a completely dumbed-down new maths course (Project Maths, the saviour of Irish numeracy :rolleyes: ).

I wonder if it'll apply to medicine...

i like pie

BL1993 wrote: »

Does that mean if you get 6 A1s (all higher) in the LC in 2012 including an A1 in maths, you'll get 625 points? Or is 600 the cut off point?

i was wondering this too, but 600 will probably still be the highest points you can get, the extra 25 points will only apply if you're going to a university.

Chuchoter

This has made my day. A D3 worth 70 points? Incredible!:D And I was aiming for a B2 for 80!

coffeelover

Why wasn't i told this before I dropped to pass ugh :mad:

fulhamfanincork

coffeelover wrote: »

Why wasn't i told this before I dropped to pass ugh :mad:

because it was just announced yesterday

coffeelover

because it was just announced yesterday

Oh I heard someone talking about it earlier..

Teutorix

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCK

Why not next year? ****ing cúnts.

Ciaramb92

Why, oh why can't they bring it in for us, LCs 2011..!

Would love it as I am aiming for the A1 in maths, 125 points would be amazing..!

Maybe_Memories

Um, what's the point in bringing in extra points for HL maths..?

randylonghorn

Teutorix wrote: »

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCK

Why not next year? ****ing cúnts.

Whatever year it came in, the previous year(s) would feel hard done by.

Agree with the reservations re: introducing this at the same time as Project Maths.

Maybe_Memories wrote: »

Um, what's the point in bringing in extra points for HL maths..?

To encourage more people to take HL Maths. Many people do drop down because they feel there are easier subjects to pick up points in; that bit of the thinking is valid.

Teutorix

If this goes ahead will UL be dropping their bonus points for HL math?

randylonghorn

Teutorix wrote: »

If this goes ahead will UL be dropping their bonus points for HL math?

Hard to know ... they may fall into line with the others for simplicity.

They may not though ... their scheme is there a while, they may just decide to stick with it. For those getting lower grades on HL, the new scheme would be better; for those scoring B1 or higher, the existing scheme is preferable.



("The following additional scores are awarded for grades A1 to C3 in the Higher Leaving Certificate paper in Mathematics: A1=40; A2=35; B1=30; B2=25; B3=20; C1=15; C2=10; C3=5." - UL website)

Teutorix

randylonghorn wrote: »

They may not though ... their scheme is there a while, they may just decide to stick with it. For those getting lower grades on HL, the new scheme would be better; for those scoring B1 or higher, the existing scheme is preferable.

So do you get 25 points instantly now just for passing HL math?

If UL are going to fall in line with that im glad its not next year, i could do with an extra 35/40 points

randylonghorn

Apparently ...

Someone is confident of their A!

soccymonster

What's the point?
It may influence a few people to do HL maths but it's in a way, giving people that have an aptitude in maths, extra points??

And giving extra points to those doing Project Maths, a dumbed down version of the course the current LC crop are doing, whyyyyy?

But then again, I'm just kinda pissed seeing as I had to drop to OL maths this year due to how hard I found the HL course and that I don't get to do Project Maths

i like pie

soccymonster wrote: »

What's the point?
It may influence a few people to do HL maths but it's in a way, giving people that have an aptitude in maths, extra points??

And giving extra points to those doing Project Maths, a dumbed down version of the course the current LC crop are doing, whyyyyy?

But then again, I'm just kinda pissed seeing as I had to drop to OL maths this year due to how hard I found the HL course and that I don't get to do Project Maths

yes it is very unfair on students who would struggle with even pass maths! i think it should only be applied to courses where maths is needed, such as financial mathematics and actuarial science.

eVeNtInE

This post has been deleted.

soccymonster

i like pie wrote: »

yes it is very unfair on students who would struggle with even pass maths! i think it should only be applied to courses where maths is needed, such as financial mathematics and actuarial science.

My thoughts exactly.
Some people have an aptitude for Maths.
Others, for languages etc.
Just because someone is good at maths, and aload of other people aren't doesn't mean that these people capable of maths should be given extra points.
What about the people talented at speaking French while a person doing HL maths may not be able to stick a sentence together?

Teutorix

soccymonster wrote: »

My thoughts exactly.
Some people have an aptitude for Maths.
Others, for languages etc.
Just because someone is good at maths, and aload of other people aren't doesn't mean that these people capable of maths should be given extra points.
What about the people talented at speaking French while a person doing HL maths may not be able to stick a sentence together?

I think the idea is to encourage people who would be able for HL math to do it. Loads of people drop it because it is too much work even though they could do it if they tried.

i like pie

also what about the schools who don't even offer the choice of doing higher level maths for the lc? why should these students be denied the opportunity of doing a subject that would gain them 25 extra leaving cert points?

fergalr

soccymonster wrote: »

My thoughts exactly.
Some people have an aptitude for Maths.
Others, for languages etc.
Just because someone is good at maths, and aload of other people aren't doesn't mean that these people capable of maths should be given extra points.
What about the people talented at speaking French while a person doing HL maths may not be able to stick a sentence together?

If some people have an aptitude for languages, they can get a maximum 300 or 400 points from languages, say by doing Irish, English, French and German.

For most university admissions, to matriculate, there are 3 compulsory language courses (Irish, English and a third language) and maths (there might be another requirement for some courses).

By the logic of your post, surely the existing system is more unfair on those without an aptitude for languages than the proposed system is for those without an aptitutde for maths?

Blink182rock

will IT's introduce this does anyone know ?

i like pie

Blink182rock wrote: »

will IT's introduce this does anyone know ?

maybe in a few years, but it just seems to be the universities that are going to try it first in 2012. another reason why the whole idea is unfair!

Blink182rock

i like pie wrote: »

maybe in a few years, but it just seems to be the universities that are going to try it first in 2012. another reason why the whole idea is unfair!

that's fair messed up ....

Teutorix

fergalr wrote: »

If some people have an aptitude for languages, they can get a maximum 300 or 400 points from languages, say by doing Irish, English, French and German.

For most university admissions, to matriculate, there are 3 compulsory language courses (Irish, English and a third language) and maths (there might be another requirement for some courses).

By the logic of your post, surely the existing system is more unfair on those without an aptitude for languages than the proposed system is for those without an aptitude for maths?

Totally agree with this, I am great at English but have a large amount of difficulty grasping foreign languages including irish (its foreign to me ) the bonus points for maths are a big help as my school dosent offer physics or applied maths so i have to do geography and business blegh :mad:

soccymonster

fergalr wrote: »

If some people have an aptitude for languages, they can get a maximum 300 or 400 points from languages, say by doing Irish, English, French and German.

For most university admissions, to matriculate, there are 3 compulsory language courses (Irish, English and a third language) and maths (there might be another requirement for some courses).

By the logic of your post, surely the existing system is more unfair on those without an aptitude for languages than the proposed system is for those without an aptitutde for maths?

You could put languages into different categories though. Like some people are great at English (their first language), others at grasping new foreign languages and some people can be good at Irish (mostly a memory game these days though).

And people that have an aptitude for maths (my friends who can get A's at a whimper yet I can't put 2 and 2 together at times!) get 25 points extra as they just have that mathematical brain.

I'm not saying that it's a bad idea because I'm not fully sure (if it proves successful then grand).
I'm just saying that they should really hold back the bonus points until they see how well Project Maths is received.
I haven't done it so I don't know what it's like but from what I've heard, 2012s LC'ers will find Project Maths abit more manageable. Incentive enough? Doesn't really look like it.

TimeToShine

Fúcking joke, now if I ever hear of someone getting over 500 points, the first question I'll ask is "Did you do HL maths?" if they say yes, I immediately label them a rétard , whilst congratulating the people who did ordinary level and got 500...I mean 70 points for a D3 is an absolute disgrace, anyone with half a brain could get that.

fergalr

soccymonster wrote: »

You could put languages into different categories though. Like some people are great at English (their first language), others at grasping new foreign languages and some people can be good at Irish (mostly a memory game these days though).

And people that have an aptitude for maths (my friends who can get A's at a whimper yet I can't put 2 and 2 together at times!) get 25 points extra as they just have that mathematical brain.

I'm not saying that it's a bad idea because I'm not fully sure (if it proves successful then grand).
I'm just saying that they should really hold back the bonus points until they see how well Project Maths is received.
I haven't done it so I don't know what it's like but from what I've heard, 2012s LC'ers will find Project Maths abit more manageable. Incentive enough? Doesn't really look like it.

The thing is, that dumbing down higher level maths (which 'making it more manageable' might mean), to make it more attractive, is not going to help people beyond the leaving cert. Maths is just more and more important for so many fields. Thats just the world we are living in.

People do respond to incentives; the extra 25 points is probably going to result in a lot of people going for high points courses (which will, of course, increase in points as a result) choosing to focus on maths.

Is it the best solution? No, and of course it has problems. But a lot of the problems are problems with the leaving cert as a whole, not with this change.

For example:

i like pie wrote: »

yes it is very unfair on students who would struggle with even pass maths! i think it should only be applied to courses where maths is needed, such as financial mathematics and actuarial science.

I mean, maybe French points should just apply to courses that involve foreign languages, or Irish points shouldn't apply to science courses, etc.

Its definitely a criticism of the leaving cert that your grades in irrelevant_subject_here influence admissions to your totally_unrelated_degree_course - but 25 extra points doesn't really change that, either way.

nommm

Why is it not coming in this year?:mad:

I can understand why the higher maths students get extra points because there is so much more work involved in the subject. It takes an hour to 2 hours to do my Maths homework every night and that if I'm getting all the sums straight away. The project Maths course is supposed to be a lot easier than this one though.

TimeToShine wrote: »

Fúcking joke, now if I ever hear of someone getting over 500 points, the first question I'll ask is "Did you do HL maths?" if they say yes, I immediately label them a rétard , whilst congratulating the people who did ordinary level and got 500...I mean 70 points for a D3 is an absolute disgrace, anyone with half a brain could get that.

What is this I don't even ...
I can understand people not thinking it's fair but this is something else altogether. Have you even seen the higher maths paper or comparing the higher and ordinary papers? There is a huge difference. I assure you a d3 student in higher maths will more than likely get an A in ordinary and vice versa or the ordinary student will do worse in Maths.

philip___

i think it's great that they're bringing it in..just cause I want extra points..but i doubt many more people will do higher..extra points wont change the fact that people simply aren't able to do Higher Levem maths, its nothing to do with it being too much effort!

jumpguy

Why is it 25 points extra no matter what grade you get? That's fairly retarded like. It's just throwing points at people. At that rate, HL maths will almost virtually be a requirement for anyone going for a very-high-point course so they can compete with the others.

fergalr

philip___ wrote: »

i think it's great that they're bringing it in..just cause I want extra points..but i doubt many more people will do higher..extra points wont change the fact that people simply aren't able to do Higher Levem maths, its nothing to do with it being too much effort!

I'd be willing to bet you are wrong about that; don't have any hard evidence, though, just some thoughts:

1) I don't think ability is the issue nearly as much as how the maths is taught
2) There will be knock on effects of this change - as the years pass, parents will want their kids to get those 25 extra points, and will put pressure on schools to have a good maths curriculum
3) I actually think there are a lot of people at the moment that are able to do higher level maths but are avoiding it (or taking it as their 7th subject) because its hard work for the points, and they are choosing tactically where to invest their effort - this will alter that balance.

Gentlemanne

TimeToShine wrote: »

Fúcking joke, now if I ever hear of someone getting over 500 points, the first question I'll ask is "Did you do HL maths?" if they say yes, I immediately label them a rétard , whilst congratulating the people who did ordinary level and got 500...I mean 70 points for a D3 is an absolute disgrace, anyone with half a brain could get that.

Someone is a ****ing retard for taking on a more challenging course to take advantage of extra points?

I'd say thats pretty smart.

coffeelover

I really think it's unfair. I dropped to HL maths and it makes me sooo guilty now to think i could get extra points. Even though I am terrible at maths. Just because some people are brilliant at maths it's not fair giving them extra points when some people (like me) arent able for it

TimeToShine

25 points is the difference between an A2 and an A1 in 2 subjects and the difference between a B1 and an A2 in another subject, I assure you it is a big deal...The worst thing is it's not even the old half-decent curriculum, it's the new project maths shít where they're cut out basically all the important stuff like Matrices and Vectors which you actually use in College, and anyway chances are most courses will see a ridiculous point surge as a result of this labelling it a waste of time.

Scuid Mhór

can't decide whether to be ashamed for the level of mathematics in this country or to be happy for my future.

whiteandlight

Re Project Maths-I'm working with it already (pilot school) and it should benefit all students in the long run as it is a more practical approach to maths with a massive emphasise on understanding rather than "learn this exactly as I show you" etc.
In relation to the comment: "new project maths shít where they're cut out basically all the important stuff like Matrices and Vectors which you actually use in College"
Just to point out that the colleges were heavily involved in designing the new course and a huge section on Probability and Statistics have been added to the curriculum which one might say is more broadly applicaple to students in all disciplines at 3rd level rather than vectors and matrices which are more pure mathematics. For example pretty much every student will study statistics from psychology to business!

In relation to the extra points I suppose my opinion is as per the colleges that this is a sticking plaster to a problem at 2nd level where Higher maths is not available to all students and is not always taught by teachers who are qualified/capable of it.

Maybe_Memories

Scuid Mhór wrote: »

can't decide whether to be ashamed for the level of mathematics in this country or to be happy for my future.

Be ashamed. I'm in my third week of Maths at Trinity, and already so many people are talking about changing course.
I even heard one guy saying "It's so different to school maths. I thought they'd just give us all the formulas like at school but here we need to understand everything."
Even most of the Theoretical Physics can't handle the Linear Algebra module.

Mathematics in this country is a disgrace. Bringing in an additionof 25 points for HL is just stupid. It wont make the subject easier or encourage people to do a maths related course in college. So what if they have a peice of paper saying they got a D3 at HL as opposed to an A1 at OL?


If they wanted people to be encouraged to do HL, they' broaden the Applied Maths course to things that aren't just Classical Mechanics. They'd bring in parts of Biology, Economics, Medicine, and more Physics.

Or just keep it the way it is and make it make more schools teach it.
They'll never dumb down the AM course.
They can't.

TimeToShine

Well whinging about Theoretical Physics is understandable...it is the hardest course in the country after all.

However, the rétard in your Maths course who actually said "oh em gee you need to understand it? im outta here" is a fúcking retard. What was he/she expecting? I regret not putting it down instead of Eng so I kinda have a reason to be bitter but retards like this do my nut in.

Maybe_Memories

Well most of the Theoretical Physics guys think the physics is easy and find all the maths modules really hard.
The TPs and Maths do all of the same modules maths modules except we do computation and stats.
Some people clearly shouldn't be doing either course. Myself and a few others are complaining about not being challenged enough.

If that's the result of normal maths, Project Maths will only make it worse, so 25 points extra wont help.

TimeToShine

Not being challenged enough...the final exams should sort that out :O they're supposed to be fúcking impossible, pick up marks from tutorials wherever ya can because you're going to need them.

Chuchoter

I have my problems with project maths, you could definitely class it as dumbing down. The extra points however, if only 16% of people are taking higher level maths when it is available basically everywhere, tells me it is the one of the hardest subjects and deserves more marks than HL geography. I am capable of getting a good B in HL maths but was debating whether or not to do it because it would take up so much extra time than another subject for the same points. That extra 25 points makes it worth my while to keep it at higher level, which was the aim of the extra points.

Paczini

I don't think that it is fair for people that are doing HL Maths in 2011 as the project maths is much easier. For 2011 we have to learn much more difficult stuff and what??? We are NOT getting extra points. It just isn't fair

randylonghorn

TimeToShine wrote: »

However, the rétard in your Maths course who actually said "oh em gee you need to understand it? im outta here" is a fúcking retard. What was he/she expecting? I regret not putting it down instead of Eng so I kinda have a reason to be bitter but retards like this do my nut in.

And people who feel the need to use the word retard 3 times in a post, and to circumvent the swear filter on a regular basis for no good reason that I can see do MY nut in!

You have had several on-thread warnings about your aggressive style of posting and general use of language.

Yellow card issued on this occasion, I must be getting soft in my old age!

Cop on, or take it somewhere else.

Maybe_Memories

Paczini wrote: »

I don't think that it is fair for people that are doing HL Maths in 2011 as the project maths is much easier. For 2011 we have to learn much more difficult stuff and what??? We are NOT getting extra points. It just isn't fair

Big deal. No one has ever gotten extra points before.

Paczini

Maybe_Memories wrote: »

Big deal. No one has ever gotten extra points before.

I don't agree with you as there were extra points before but they are introducing them again.

johnmcdnl

I cant' understand this hatred at the idea for extra marks for HL maths.. ok project maths is a dumbed down piss take compared to the old leaving cert that I did from what I can see but still - it's still HL maths..

Anyone who can do HL maths has a mind that understand and can think for itself is what I've found out from my experience - the HL maths class is the class with the cleverest brightest students - it's probably one of the only subjects where you can't just learn stuff off by heart and recite it in the exam - you have to understand and think for every question and that's why it deserves more recognition - because it's not a memory game

I could probably have gone and gotten an A in 10 lanuages or whatever number of lanuages there are if I went and sat down and learned everything by heart - but does that make me clever - nope - just shows I have a good memory which tbh isn't a whole lot of good for most college courses - after all would you want your local GP to be the guy that got his exams because he was an absoulte genius at short time memorising or the guy who understood everything he was taught and therefore remembered all the stuff into his old age... I know what I'd prefer

Maths just always seems to bring the cleverest people to the forefront - true some people may have more of a talent for art or french or whatever other subject you want to mention - but maths is the only subject that really pushes the student to think analytically and this is one of the major things that most major companies want their employees to be good at so therefore rewarding students for attempting and passing HL maths is a brilliant idea in my eyes and unfortunately it wasn't an option when I did the leaving not that I would have needed the points as it turned out...

But upon saying all this - the Project Maths seems to be an ultra dumbed down maths course that really does need to be tightened up a lot and made more difficult more like the old course...

It'll be very interesting to see how this turns out anyways and I'll be keeping a eye on it anyways