Smaller and slower. Service from Drogheda to Dublin getting worse?

digitaldarragh

The 7:34 service, previously the 7:37 and even before that, the 7:42AM from Drogheda to Dublin is getting worse. But, I'd really like to know if there's something i'm missing. Does anyone know why?

The 7:34 is scheduled to get into Pierce at 8:37. It hasn't arrived at this time once.

For the past two days things have really gone down hill. It's now been an older train and it's getting in at 8:57AM.

It seems a little strange to me. I'm hoping it's just a temporary problem but it would be nice to know what this problem was and to hear some kind of assurance that it is only for a few days and it isn't another change to what has become a very unreliable service.

I was fortunate to get a seat this morning but even from Drogheda there were people standing.

foggy_lad

digitaldarragh wrote: »

The 7:34 service, previously the 7:37 and even before that, the 7:42AM from Drogheda to Dublin is getting worse. But, I'd really like to know if there's something i'm missing. Does anyone know why?

The 7:34 is scheduled to get into Pierce at 8:37. It hasn't arrived at this time once.

For the past two days things have really gone down hill. It's now been an older train and it's getting in at 8:57AM.

It seems a little strange to me. I'm hoping it's just a temporary problem but it would be nice to know what this problem was and to hear some kind of assurance that it is only for a few days and it isn't another change to what has become a very unreliable service.

I was fortunate to get a seat this morning but even from Drogheda there were people standing.

there is leaves on the lines which slow down the trains and maybe there was a breakdown of the regular train and they have to use a different one for a while until repairs are carried out?

can you get the bus? Drogheda is well served by fast comfortable busses to dublin.

Carawaystick

foggy_lad wrote: »

there is leaves on the lines which slow down the trains and maybe there was a breakdown of the regular train and they have to use a different one for a while until repairs are carried out?
.

Where are the leaves?

I get the train before this and it was a whole minute early yesterday so the leaves excuse is a load of rubbish.

foggy_lad

Carawaystick wrote: »

Where are the leaves?

I get the train before this and it was a whole minute early yesterday so the leaves excuse is a load of rubbish.

irish rail have been blaming leaves for countrywide delays today and all day yeaterday but they have not been telling their customers about this. info is on irish railway news instead.

Carawaystick

foggy_lad wrote: »

irish rail have been blaming leaves for countrywide delays today and all day yeaterday but they have not been telling their customers about this. info is on irish railway news instead.

How would the leaves not affect my train yet affect the train ten minutes later?
A little whirlwind or the usual guff from IÉ?

Rashers72

I agree.
Following yesterday's overcrowding and delays at Donabate, the same was repeated again this morning. The delays this morning were longer.
Yet again not a single apology from the driver, or any explanation of either the overcrowding or the time spent sitting outside Connolly.
I checked with Connolly information desk, and they advised they received numerous complaints about the overcrowding, and leaving passengers behind at Donabate. And yes, passengers were equally complaining about a complete breakdown in communication.
So this afternoon, I checked with the Northern Suburban office on this.
As we know, since the new Dunboyne line opened, Irish Rail have had to reduce capacity on all other commuter lines to supply the new line with trains.
Originally, the 07.12 Drogheda-Bray service was reduced to 6 carriages, but this led to severe overcrowding, so much so, that the commuter service 20 minutes later had to make additional stops to pick up passengers left behind (this is turn led to delays to this service).
So anyway, effective yesterday, the 'carriage reduction programme' has switched to the 07.10 Dundalk to Bray service. This will continue until further notice, or till enough people complain. I suggested that it might be an idea to put up a notice (especially in Donabate) to let passengers know, and therefore they could try get an earlier/later service. We'll see what happens....

AlekSmart

What about those laid up DART units in Fairview...?

Can any of the Rail Fans here advise if twould be possible to couple them to Northern Loine commuter stock and use their capacity...if not...why not....?

flyingsnail

AlekSmart wrote: »

What about those laid up DART units in Fairview...?

Can any of the Rail Fans here advise if twould be possible to couple them to Northern Loine commuter stock and use their capacity...if not...why not....?

I don't know about when they are coupled to railcars but when they are being hauled by a loco they are limited to 15mph.

Also as soon as you left the dart area you would have no power for lights, heating, information displays ect... And that is assuming the controls would be interoperable. You would have to run around at each end adding to delays and staffing requirements.

Rud

AlekSmart wrote: »

What about those laid up DART units in Fairview...?

Can any of the Rail Fans here advise if twould be possible to couple them to Northern Loine commuter stock and use their capacity...if not...why not....?

There are a load of orange 201 locos rotting away in Inchicore and MK3s rotting away in Heuston,Waterford and Dundalk that could be used but will never be used again.I think a load of new 22ks are to be delivered anyways

KC61

The next tranche of 22K units are due to start arriving next spring, and will probably start entering service post-commissioning in autumn 2011.

foggy_lad

Why does it take so long to get them into service? If you buy expensive trains the least you should expect is they will be ready to run with very little checks etc.

KC61

foggy_lad wrote: »

Why does it take so long to get them into service? If you buy expensive trains the least you should expect is they will be ready to run with very little checks etc.

That is standard right across the railway industry and not specific in Ireland.

Every new train has to do 10,000 miles of testing before being put into service. We are talking about the safety of potentially 300 plus people here on every train journey and that cannot be diminished.

In fairness from reading your posts here, you would be the first person to criticise the railway company if each train had not been thoroughly tested before entering service.

The trains remain the property of the manufacturer until that commissioning process is completed.

schemingbohemia

KC61 wrote: »

That is standard right across the railway industry and not specific in Ireland.

Every new train has to do 10,000 miles of testing before being put into service. We are talking about the safety of potentially 300 plus people here on every train journey and that cannot be diminished.

In fairness from reading your posts here, you would be the first person to criticise the railway company if each train had not been thoroughly tested before entering service.

The trains remain the property of the manufacturer until that commissioning process is completed.

ye see KC61 these are facts and in foggy lad's world facts don't count, all that counts is perception and in particular his perception that Bus Eireann, Dublin Bus and Iarnród Éireann are all striving to make his public transport trips as difficult as possible, i mean the poor lad can't even get a pint of milk sometimes due to the pernicious behaviour of these public servants!

foggy_lad

KC61 wrote: »

That is standard right across the railway industry and not specific in Ireland.

Every new train has to do 10,000 miles of testing before being put into service. We are talking about the safety of potentially 300 plus people here on every train journey and that cannot be diminished.

In fairness from reading your posts here, you would be the first person to criticise the railway company if each train had not been thoroughly tested before entering service.

The trains remain the property of the manufacturer until that commissioning process is completed.

fair enough, passenger safety must come first at all times but should this testing have shown up problems like faulty smoke sensors in toilets coupling problems etc etc etc as experienced with trains already recieved from the far side of the world?

KC61

foggy_lad wrote: »

fair enough, passenger safety must come first at all times but should this testing have shown up problems like faulty smoke sensors in toilets coupling problems etc etc etc as experienced with trains already recieved from the far side of the world?

Have you ever come across a piece of equipment that has not encountered a technical fault at some stage??????

While preventive maintenance should take care of issues such as these, last time I checked we don't live in an entirely perfect world.

foggy_lad

stuff does break down occasionally but from what i have read here these trains had many faults from coupling faults to wiring faults and smoke sensors going off in the toilets which must cause great embarrassment to those in the toilets when it happens, so many faults with brand new equipment would/should usually lead to the equipment being returned to suppliers for refit/repair and future orders being cancelled.

as it stands irish rail are at a loss of several units because of faults and are losing passengers because of issues like the smoke sensors going off, and it seems they are not able to return the shoddy equiment because whoever wrote up the contracts did not do a great job of protecting their employers interests?

steamengine

Would it not be reasonable to assume that IR should have sufficient locos and Mark 3's on standby until such time as these new trains are fully operational. There have been numerous posts about all these early retired Mk 3 coaches being parked up in Waterford, Dublin docklands and Dundalk.

KC61

foggy_lad wrote: »

stuff does break down occasionally but from what i have read here these trains had many faults from coupling faults to wiring faults and smoke sensors going off in the toilets which must cause great embarrassment to those in the toilets when it happens, so many faults with brand new equipment would/should usually lead to the equipment being returned to suppliers for refit/repair and future orders being cancelled.

as it stands irish rail are at a loss of several units because of faults and are losing passengers because of issues like the smoke sensors going off, and it seems they are not able to return the shoddy equiment because whoever wrote up the contracts did not do a great job of protecting their employers interests?

Look, as with much of the stuff that you've posted here over the last few months, this post is just brim full of exaggeration.

Two units were not accepted by Irish Rail beacuse they were damaged in transit. One unit suffered damage due a derailment and is currently under repair.

All of the other 43 units are in service.

Yes, there were initial faults, but the vast majority of them are now fixed under warranty. There were faults with the Mark 3 stock as well, initially.

Trains like any other item of equipment may become defective. They are taken back to the traincare depot and fixed. Look at the number of train services that IE operates every day - over 140 Intercity services alone (excluding regional services from Limerick) - while there are problems from time to time, reading your posts you would swear that every train is defective.

I have to say that this constant barrage of nonsense is getting tiresome - all that I am reading is totally over the top comments about drivers, trains, buses every single day. No one is saying things are perfect - they obviously aren't, but they are a hell of a lot better than you think.

KC61

steamengine wrote: »

Would it not be reasonable to assume that IR should have sufficient locos and Mark 3's on standby until such time as these new trains are fully operational. There have been numerous posts about all these early retired Mk 3 coaches being parked up in Waterford, Dublin docklands and Dundalk.

I would not disagree - IE overstretched themselves last year and should have retained 3-4 sets as standby.

dowlingm

There have been rumblings of the return of 4 of the 10 8200 series DART carriages, however if they did it should be to bulk up DART services with extra carriages and reduce the number of Commuter stops within DART "territory". Without express tracks it will continue to make sense to make some stops for the diesels since they would have to wait behind another train anyway, but the fewest possible.

One of the biggest problems in increasing DART capacity appears to be that the DART terminus at Malahide is not ideal and extension over the Broadmeadow Viaduct to a better one up the line is not likely any time soon. However, tunnel spoil could allow reclaim of land west of the line (north of Bisset Strand) to form a Fairview-sized depot with 8-car length storage tracks and a turnback area, perhaps incorporating a loop track so a reversal/end change would not be required.

Obviously this infill would have to be conditional on any hydrodynamic impact on the viaduct itself, but it would also allow more DARTs to be stabled outside the centre of the city which would reduce deadheading and free up space for NIR trains to park during specials.

steamengine

Rashers72 wrote: »

I agree.
Following yesterday's overcrowding and delays at Donabate, the same was repeated again this morning. The delays this morning were longer.
Yet again not a single apology from the driver, or any explanation of either the overcrowding or the time spent sitting outside Connolly.
I checked with Connolly information desk, and they advised they received numerous complaints about the overcrowding, and leaving passengers behind at Donabate. And yes, passengers were equally complaining about a complete breakdown in communication.
So this afternoon, I checked with the Northern Suburban office on this.
As we know, since the new Dunboyne line opened, Irish Rail have had to reduce capacity on all other commuter lines to supply the new line with trains.
Originally, the 07.12 Drogheda-Bray service was reduced to 6 carriages, but this led to severe overcrowding, so much so, that the commuter service 20 minutes later had to make additional stops to pick up passengers left behind (this is turn led to delays to this service).
So anyway, effective yesterday, the 'carriage reduction programme' has switched to the 07.10 Dundalk to Bray service. This will continue until further notice, or till enough people complain. I suggested that it might be an idea to put up a notice (especially in Donabate) to let passengers know, and therefore they could try get an earlier/later service. We'll see what happens....

6 carriages on this service is ridiculous. I commuted on this line mid 90's and it was crazy enough then in the mornings from Donabate onwards with regard to overcrowding. 8 carriages at least are required if not 10.

dowlingm

8 is probably the legal max without selective doors. There might be some issues at Connolly with short platforms too perhaps?

That said, if Hansfield doesn't open soon and Broombridge doesn't lift loadings decently then pride should be swallowed and 4 x 29s removed to Northern Line with 2 x 26s sent the other way (see also this thread)

dcr22B

Reading all this makes me extremely thankful on a daily basis for the 33X!

AlekSmart

Reading all this makes me extremely thankful on a daily basis for the 33X!

Reading it would,if I were a senior Dublin Bus manager,have me banging on the table of the NTA or whomever is in-charge and putting forward a case for enhanced 33X services

Carawaystick

AlekSmart wrote: »

Reading it would,if I were a senior Dublin Bus manager,have me banging on the table of the NTA or whomever is in-charge and putting forward a case for enhanced 33X services

Mrs Carawaystick drives to Rush & Lusk station and gets the 33X every morning, as it's faster than the train.

It's also cheaper at 1.85 each way.

AlekSmart

It's also cheaper at 1.85 each way.

Ah...Mrs Cstick is a Travel 90 Gal then !!! You GO Girl !!

foggy_lad

I'd love to be a travel90 user then Mr smart would appreciate my ingenuity:D

Seannew1

I emailed IE about this,they said that the reason the service has been so delayed is because of leaves on the track due to the atmospheric conditions during this time of yr and also because the train has to slow twice during the service,once just before Drogheda(that only started last monday i noticed) and also over the Laytown viaduct.

Also the reason the train is now a 6 carriage train is because their fleet manager has re-arranged the rolling stock at peak times,he obviously doesn't realise that the 7.10 dundalk/Bray service is probably one of the busiest trains in the morning on the northern commuter line.

donvito99

Are the new 22s going to serve commuter routes? I believe they are of 'Extra Urban' spec, whatever that means.

Captain Chaos

donvito99 wrote: »

Are the new 22s going to serve commuter routes? I believe they are of 'Extra Urban' spec, whatever that means.

They already are on the Maynooth line when a 29 is not free or they are short of stock.

The 22s are to take up more Commuter services out of Heuston, freeing up more 29 units to return to the Northern line and Maynooth Commuter services. There are still 29s serving on the Sligo line, 2-4 22 units will be need to free these up alone.

The 22s are close to intercity spec. I highly doubt we will see them on the Northern line, except if they is nothing else to cover. They can't even fill in for a failed Enterprise as they are not cleared to operate north of Dundalk.

A large order of new DART EMUs and Commuter spec DMUs was placed last year for delivery who knows when now due to the cut backs and delays of the electrification of the Maynooth and Drogheda lines and the tunnel from Docklands to Heuston.

donvito99

Captain Chaos wrote: »

They already are on the Maynooth line when a 29 is not free or they are short of stock.

The 22s are to take up more Commuter services out of Heuston, freeing up more 29 units to return to the Northern line and Maynooth Commuter services. There are still 29s serving on the Sligo line, 2-4 22 units will be need to free these up alone.

The 22s are close to intercity spec. I highly doubt we will see them on the Northern line, except if they is nothing else to cover. They can't even fill in for a failed Enterprise as they are not cleared to operate north of Dundalk.

A large order of new DART EMUs and Commuter spec DMUs was placed last year for delivery who knows when now due to the cut backs and delays of the electrification of the Maynooth and Drogheda lines and the tunnel from Docklands to Heuston.

So will the next set of 22s be the same spec, or will there be some Commuter layout on the trains ie. less seats etc. ?

Rashers72

Despite my attempts to avoid the dreaded 6 carriage service, they failed on Friday when it was switched to the earlier 7.10am From Drogheda to Bray. Overcrowding was not as bad (it was a Friday, so that helped).
Was 5 minutes late arriving, ran with the same delay to Connolly, but then was delayed another 5 minutes between Grand Canal Dock station and Lansdowne Road. No announcements. This service, and the 1 stuck straight behind it were the only 2 delayed towards Bray up to 9.30am.
We will see where it is deployed to tomorrow.....

Captain Chaos

donvito99 wrote: »

So will the next set of 22s be the same spec, or will there be some Commuter layout on the trains ie. less seats etc. ?

Same spec yes. A mix of 3 car and 6 car sets.

It's like when the top up batch of 29s were ordered, there was a rumor that they would be to a higher spec, more seats, noise insulation etc, but they were that same as the rest.

Jehuty42

Captain Chaos wrote: »

The 22s are to take up more Commuter services out of Heuston, freeing up more 29 units to return to the Northern line and Maynooth Commuter services.

Your info is out of date. There are no 29k units operating out of Heuston, all the Kildare/Newbridge/Portlaise Commuter services have been 22k operated since the last timetable. All 29ks are on the Connolly side of the network and only operate Maynooth/Drogheda/DSE services. The new 22ks are to replace 29ks on the longer Commuter routes to Longford and Dundalk, as I understand it. There will be a surplus of 29ks.

dowlingm

Captain Chaos wrote: »

A large order of new DART EMUs and Commuter spec DMUs was placed last year

Source? I recall there may have been an expression of interest seeking for the EMUs but that was based on a 2015 Interconnector which isn't going to happen.

Jehuty42

He's wrong, that never happened. There will need to be an EMU order fairly soon for the interconnector, though.

Posher

Rashers72 wrote: »

Despite my attempts to avoid the dreaded 6 carriage service, they failed on Friday when it was switched to the earlier 7.10am From Drogheda to Bray. Overcrowding was not as bad (it was a Friday, so that helped).
Was 5 minutes late arriving, ran with the same delay to Connolly, but then was delayed another 5 minutes between Grand Canal Dock station and Lansdowne Road. No announcements. This service, and the 1 stuck straight behind it were the only 2 delayed towards Bray up to 9.30am.
We will see where it is deployed to tomorrow.....

It was an 8 carriage train this morning and there were seats available to Rush and Lusk on my carriage. I wonder where the passengers have gone? A different train or bus option?

KC61

Captain Chaos wrote: »

They already are on the Maynooth line when a 29 is not free or they are short of stock.

The 22s are to take up more Commuter services out of Heuston, freeing up more 29 units to return to the Northern line and Maynooth Commuter services. There are still 29s serving on the Sligo line, 2-4 22 units will be need to free these up alone.

The 22s are close to intercity spec. I highly doubt we will see them on the Northern line, except if they is nothing else to cover. They can't even fill in for a failed Enterprise as they are not cleared to operate north of Dundalk.

A large order of new DART EMUs and Commuter spec DMUs was placed last year for delivery who knows when now due to the cut backs and delays of the electrification of the Maynooth and Drogheda lines and the tunnel from Docklands to Heuston.

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Same spec yes. A mix of 3 car and 6 car sets.

It's like when the top up batch of 29s were ordered, there was a rumor that they would be to a higher spec, more seats, noise insulation etc, but they were that same as the rest.

The amount of errors in these posts is crazy.

There are 17 3 car 22k sets on order (and also the 2 replacements for the sets damaged in transit). There are no 6-car sets on order. They are the exact same spec as the existing 3-car sets.

They are destined for Intercity use and use on longer distance commuter services, e.g. Longford, Dundalk, Wexford, Portlaoise etc. Whether additional services will operate on the Kildare route will be dependent on demand. Some of these sets may displace 2700s on the WRC. They will also facilitate the remaining 29k links on Sligo to be converted to 22k operation.

These sets will displace the 29k sets currently operating to Longford and Dundalk services for use elsewhere.

There is no other rolling stock on order currently.

Captain Chaos

All my info I got from the IRN forums over the past few months/years.

I never heard about 22s going over to Dundalk links before.

And about the 22 top up order, I read that some 3 cars sets were to be changed for 6 car sets on top of the 2x 3 car sets to replace 22 sets 9 and 10.

I can't find the link for the tender that IE put out last year for that big EMU and DMU order, rumors on IRN were that Tokyo Car/Mitsu were the front runners for it.

Part of the DMU order I believe were to replace the 26's as they will be coming up on 20 years old when the new units are due but I suspect they will get a refurb like the LHBs had.

But as I said above with the interconnector delayed/cancelled as funding budget dictates at the years end, the DMU part of the tender will be cut back or canceled.

KC61

Captain Chaos wrote: »

All my info I got from the IRN forums over the past few months/years.

I never heard about 22s going over to Dundalk links before.

And about the 22 top up order, I read that some 3 cars sets were to be changed for 6 car sets on top of the 2x 3 car sets to replace 22 sets 9 and 10.

I can't find the link for the tender that IE put out last year for that big EMU and DMU order, rumors on IRN were that Tokyo Car/Mitsu were the front runners for it.

Part of the DMU order I believe were to replace the 26's as they will be coming up on 20 years old when the new units are due but I suspect they will get a refurb like the LHBs had.

No 6 car sets are on order - they are all 3 car.

The tender for EMU stock was advertised in 2006 but was not awarded.
http://www.etenders.gov.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=MAY058559

Captain Chaos

KC61 wrote: »

The tender for EMU stock was advertised in 2006 but was not awarded.
http://www.etenders.gov.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=MAY058559

The tender I saw posted on a while back IRN was more recent and was for a mix of DMUs and EMUs. I can't rember exactly when but it was around the time the 22s were in testing if I recall correctly, (I know that doesn't really narrow it down as they were in testing for a while given the amount of them.) Which going by my above posts means very little.

KC61

Captain Chaos wrote: »

The tender I saw posted on a while back IRN was more recent and was for a mix of DMUs and EMUs. I can't rember exactly when but it was around the time the 22s were in testing if I recall correctly, (I know that doesn't really narrow it down as they were in testing for a while given the amount of them.) Which going by my above posts means very little.

Having trawled the etenders website, this is that tender from 2007.
http://www.etenders.gov.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=JUL088610

Again it was not awarded.

dowlingm

If the EMUs are purchased, that probably means 22 Dundalk-Connolly, 22 Rosslare-Connolly, 22 Portlaoise-Heuston, 29 Mullingar/Navan-Connolly. I suspect we will then see the 28s go to Cork and the 26s retired.

Only supposition, mind...

Rashers72

Posher wrote: »

It was an 8 carriage train this morning and there were seats available to Rush and Lusk on my carriage. I wonder where the passengers have gone? A different train or bus option?

I could not afford to be late again this week, after all the delays last week, so I got this service, and yes it was an 8 carriage. However, the Dundalk to Bray service operated as 6 carriages, yet again leaving passengers behind at Donabate. At least the driver apologised for 'severe overcrowding', or so I'm told.

Transportuser09

Until works begins in earnest on the interconnector there is probably little point in ordering further EMU sets, it's quite possible these units would be completed far quicker than the new line/OHLE extensions are completed. If they had been ordered in 2007 they would probably be here by now, only to sit around for years.

steamengine

Rashers72 wrote: »

I could not afford to be late again this week, after all the delays last week, so I got this service, and yes it was an 8 carriage. However, the Dundalk to Bray service operated as 6 carriages, yet again leaving passengers behind at Donabate. At least the driver apologised for 'severe overcrowding', or so I'm told.

There seems to be a trend towards 6 car operations, looking at for example the new InterCity 22000's. Maybe some of my knowledgable poster colleagues here could please explain the various DMU car configurations to myself and others here.

Which DMU's can be expanded to an 8 car configuration (or more) ????

Transportuser09

steamengine wrote: »

Which DMU's can be expanded to an 8 car configuration (or more) ????

The 2600, 2700 and 2800 classes come in basic 2-car sets, so can be made into eight car formations, as can 29000s, which come in 4-car sets. So far only 2600 and 2800 are permitted to operate mixed with each other, as was the case on the Northern and Rosslare services up until relatively recently.

steamengine

Transportuser09 wrote: »

The 2600, 2700 and 2800 classes come in basic 2-car sets, so can be made into eight car formations, as can 29000s, which come in 4-car sets. So far only 2600 and 2800 are permitted to operate mixed with each other, as was the case on the Northern and Rosslare services up until relatively recently.

Thanks for the info - much appreciated T09 !!!

Cookie_Monster

don't forget the 2750's which allows workings of 1, 3, 5 etc along with 2700s

shamwari

Announcement made in the station earlier that the 7:10 from Dundalk will be reverting to 8 carriages long. I wonder if they are gonna swap that 6piece set with the 8piece used on the 07:00 departure

flyingsnail

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

don't forget the 2650's which allows workings of 1, 3, 5 etc along with 2600 etc

I didn't think there was 2650s just two 2750s