Selling my car, getting interest from the continent, not sure if it's a scam.

metalgear2k2

Hi lads,

selling my car at the min

http://www.adverts.ie/266959/cars/1998-toyota-celica-ss111-yamaha-beams/

I got a phone call 2 weeks ago from a guy in Poland ringing on behalf of a friend of his who has average English, making enquires about my car, service details etc. Wanted to know if I would take the car to England to meet them there and they could drive it from there back to Poland. I said no and he said would I meet them at Dublin airport to do the same thing and I said I would, they will pre pay me for the fuel. He said he would send me an email so I could send him on more photos of the car and photos of the receipts for the work carried out etc and I said no problem and that’s how the call ended. I never got any email or contact after that.

Got an email today about it, from the friend with the poor English, turns out it’s a girl and her English is not that bad. Basically saying the same stuff about going to Dublin and asking for more photos and info on the car.

To me she seems genuine enough, I have no reason to doubt her at the moment and want to give her the benifit of the doubt but I just wanted to ask had anyone else had a similar experience or been contacted like that and went ahead with it. Just don’t want to get taken for a mug after all the stuff we hear about scams these days.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

Ash.J.Williams

metalgear2k2 wrote: »

Hi lads,

selling my car at the min

http://www.adverts.ie/266959/cars/1998-toyota-celica-ss111-yamaha-beams/

I got a phone call 2 weeks ago from a guy in Poland ringing on behalf of a friend of his who has average English, making enquires about my car, service details etc. Wanted to know if I would take the car to England to meet them there and they could drive it from there back to Poland. I said no and he said would I meet them at Dublin airport to do the same thing and I said I would, they will pre pay me for the fuel. He said he would send me an email so I could send him on more photos of the car and photos of the receipts for the work carried out etc and I said no problem and that’s how the call ended. I never got any email or contact after that.

Got an email today about it, from the friend with the poor English, turns out it’s a girl and her English is not that bad. Basically saying the same stuff about going to Dublin and asking for more photos and info on the car.

To me she seems genuine enough, I have no reason to doubt her at the moment and want to give her the benifit of the doubt but I just wanted to ask had anyone else had a similar experience or been contacted like that and went ahead with it. Just don’t want to get taken for a mug after all the stuff we hear about scams these days.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

dodgey

CamperMan

if they pay for the petrol up front and you meet them at dublin airport, and they pay CASH for the car, no worries, insist that you will only take cash, no cheques, etc.

I sold a car to a French bloke in a similar way, the deal went well, no hassles

metalgear2k2

Ya defo cash or possibly Paypal? Only ways I would take payment.

CamperMan

metalgear2k2 wrote: »

Ya defo cash or possibly Paypal? Only ways I would take payment.

dont let them pay with paypal.... if they do a chargeback, where do you go then??

Tell them to meet you in Cork, if they want the car that badly they'll go to Cork.

metalgear2k2

CamperMan wrote: »

dont let them pay with paypal.... if they do a chargeback, where do you go then??

Whats a chargeback? (whatever it is, paypal is out so, cash only)

CamperMan

metalgear2k2 wrote: »

Whats a chargeback? (whatever it is, paypal is out so, cash only)

somebody can pay you for goods with paypal, then once they have the goods, they can complain to paypal, saying "goods not as described" etc. paypal put a hold on your account until they investigate it, a whole lot of hassle

reiger

what if there come with a fist full of euros and it could be a scam herd of alot fake notes out that country.
i say tell them to get lost or else as some one else said tell them cork if they want the car they'll go to cork.

daRobot

Seems very unusual, it's RHD, and a very long way away from Poland (which with Germany being neighbours has access to a large used car market).

I'd echo what RJ says. Tell them to come to Cork.

My guess is that at the very last minute "something will happen" that leads to one of them not being able to take the flight, and they'll try some shipping and escrow scam. But I could be completely wrong.

bazz26

Sounds way too odd to me. Why would someone living in Poland go to the trouble of buying a RHD car from Ireland and then drive it back home unless it is something completely unique?

biko

As said: for a 1998 Toyota Celica it seems crazy to want to buy it from here.

Btw:

As probably most of you don't know, in Poland (and few other EU states) it's not permitted to register RHD (right hand drive) car.
EU commission made a complaint to Polish Government about it, as what they say, it's limiting the free transfer of goods between member states, so there's no reason for such limit.
Polish government replied stating that it's all about safety. As RHD cars in right hand traffic are not safe, especially while overtaking. They state, that such cars limit drivers view, and as so, can't be registered as it's too dangerous.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056051546

smash

Cash is king, if they're interested and do actually have cash then meet them in Ireland. If they have cash, go to the bank and check it and lodge it before you sign any papers.

Ash.J.Williams

And don't forget the change of ownership forms!

It can well be a legit thing given that yours is cheap compared to similar cars in mobile.de for example.

Some of the large engined cars are really cheap in Ireland. Lads in Poland are very handy and, in general, labour is cheap so modifying a RHD to a LHD using parts from e.g. a badly crashed car is not a biggie.

metalgear2k2

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

And don't forget the change of ownership forms!

How would I do the change of ownership if its leaving the country? Is it some other form or something?

CiniO

1. I don't think it's a scam. Just be carefull and don't do anything that would put you at risk. Just do what you agreed before (go to Dublin if prepaid for fuel) and accept only cash.

2. If you are unsure about notes (if they are not fake) go with the lad to the bank to lodge it. Or even go to currency exchange at the airport, pay them a fiver and ask them to check the notes.

3. Someone was saying why would Polish lads go to Ireland for a car? First of all used cars in Poland are more expensive then here. It's worth for Polish lads to go to Germany for a car, but it's still cheaper in Ireland. As you said it was Celica, I believe it's very difficult to get that one cheap on the Continent. In Ireland they are not worth that much, as tax and insurance is big, and labour is expensive (and it matters a lot for 12 years old car).

4. Guys might just be affraid to go to Cork, as they probably don't know Ireland to well. It's just much handier for them to meet you at the airport.

5. In Poland thay can't register RHD, but considering difference in price, it might be still worth to convert is to LHD, using parts from some crashed car.

6. Just make sure everything is set up, before you go. Make sure you get money for fuel before you go.

7. Inform the lads before (as they might not be aware) that they need to get insurance for the car, as you can't pass them your policy with the car (that's common practice in Poland) and there isn't anything like short time insurance in Ireland.
So just ask them how are they planning to arrange cover for the journey home? Maybe some UK insurers?

8. You have to pass them you VRC. There isn't any forms of change of ownership for export. You just pass them your VRC. Instead make sure you get some proof that you actually sold the car. Prepare (or ask them to prepare) a small written contract of sale, stating your names, addresses, car details (reg no, vin no, make, model) and just stating that you sold them a car for the amount of xxxx euros. All dated and signed by both parties. That's the only safe way to do it. While signing it, ask them to show you their ID or passport, so you know that details are real not fake.

opti76

bring a UV ight with ya and familiarise yourself with the security features of Euro notes.... lot of fake money finds its way into large bundles of cash

metalgear2k2

CiniO wrote: »

1. I don't think it's a scam. Just be carefull and don't do anything that would put you at risk. Just do what you agreed before (go to Dublin if prepaid for fuel) and accept only cash.

2. If you are unsure about notes (if they are not fake) go with the lad to the bank to lodge it. Or even go to currency exchange at the airport, pay them a fiver and ask them to check the notes.

3. Someone was saying why would Polish lads go to Ireland for a car? First of all used cars in Poland are more expensive then here. It's worth for Polish lads to go to Germany for a car, but it's still cheaper in Ireland. As you said it was Celica, I believe it's very difficult to get that one cheap on the Continent. In Ireland they are not worth that much, as tax and insurance is big, and labour is expensive (and it matters a lot for 12 years old car).

4. Guys might just be affraid to go to Cork, as they probably don't know Ireland to well. It's just much handier for them to meet you at the airport.

5. In Poland thay can't register RHD, but considering difference in price, it might be still worth to convert is to LHD, using parts from some crashed car.

6. Just make sure everything is set up, before you go. Make sure you get money for fuel before you go.

7. Inform the lads before (as they might not be aware) that they need to get insurance for the car, as you can't pass them your policy with the car (that's common practice in Poland) and there isn't anything like short time insurance in Ireland.
So just ask them how are they planning to arrange cover for the journey home? Maybe some UK insurers?

8. You have to pass them you VRC. There isn't any forms of change of ownership for export. You just pass them your VRC. Instead make sure you get some proof that you actually sold the car. Prepare (or ask them to prepare) a small written contract of sale, stating your names, addresses, car details (reg no, vin no, make, model) and just stating that you sold them a car for the amount of xxxx euros. All dated and signed by both parties. That's the only safe way to do it. While signing it, ask them to show you their ID or passport, so you know that details are real not fake.

Thanks for all the info, I think it is legit as I found her on facebook with her email address and found a vid of her at a celica club poland meet so seems legit alright. Will have to do up some kind of contract like you said, and will make her aware of the insurance problem.

CiniO

metalgear2k2 wrote: »

Thanks for all the info, I think it is legit as I found her on facebook with her email address and found a vid of her at a celica club poland meet so seems legit alright. Will have to do up some kind of contract like you said, and will make her aware of the insurance problem.

Just something like that:
http://www.free-legal-document.com/car-sales-agreement.html
You can make it bit shorter, and cut some unneceserily parts, but anyway I wouldn't hand anyone my VRC without signing such thing. And handing VRC is a must because otherwise buyer won't be able to register car is his own country.

Seweryn

metalgear2k2 wrote: »

Thanks for all the info, I think it is legit as I found her on facebook with her email address and found a vid of her at a celica club poland meet so seems legit alright. Will have to do up some kind of contract like you said, and will make her aware of the insurance problem.

She will have to get the insurance in Poland, as there is no way to get temporary insurance in this case here in Ireland. And as mentioned before - you have to hand over the Vehicle Registration Certificate.

BostonB

You must be on drugs if you think someones going to come from Poland to buy a car here.

CiniO

BostonB wrote: »

You must be on drugs if you think someones going to come from Poland to buy a car here.

????
Why?

RustyNut

Be wary.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056051546&highlight=wrong+side

BostonB

CiniO wrote: »

????
Why?

Common sense.

Its like driving from Dublin to Dingle to see if the petrol is cheaper.

CiniO

BostonB wrote: »

Common sense.

Its like driving from Dublin to Dingle to see if the petrol is cheaper.

If it was 2x cheaper, and you were buying 1000 litres, you'd definitely go.

Besides, car that is for sale, is not just a usual fiesta or micra.
It's a car that might be difficult to find, especially in good condition, and well cared about.

I'm not saying it's definitely not a scam.
But I can't really see any reason why would it be. Besides seller is not really risking anything - maybe just half day of his time.

Polish people buy a lot of cars for export in UK, and even sometimes Ireland, as it's worth for them.

BostonB

After doing some googling, I see you're right and I'm wrong. It seems the 2nd car values in Poland are higher then UK and IRL (Germany is more expensive) and they convert cars right to left if its worth it.
At least thats what google says. So it may not be a scam. I stand corrected.

metalgear2k2

After speaking to her for most of last night on facebook chat I defo think that she is legit, she’s a very active member of Celica Club Poland which I had to join to find out (thank good for google translate!). Also as said earlier I found a vid of her in her current Celica at a track day on youtube, so I'm really thinking that she is legit and not trying to scam.

She told me that I was correct when I pointed out that she couldn’t register a RHD car over there but she then told me that she already had all the parts to convert it to LHD, there is a guy in the club who does it, has done 3 GT4's already and they had no problems.

While I think she is legit I will still keep my eyes open on this, I will use the contract suggested earlier and want to get the cash checked in a bank before I hand over the keys. She has moved up her schedule and is coming to Dublin this Friday, could anyone tell me if there is a bank in the airport? Is there anything else I should be thinking about?

swe_fi

metalgear2k2 wrote: »

After speaking to her for most of last night on facebook chat I defo think that she is legit, she’s a very active member of Celica Club Poland which I had to join to find out (thank good for google translate!). Also as said earlier I found a vid of her in her current Celica at a track day on youtube, so I'm really thinking that she is legit and not trying to scam.

She told me that I was correct when I pointed out that she couldn’t register a RHD car over there but she then told me that she already had all the parts to convert it to LHD, there is a guy in the club who does it, has done 3 GT4's already and they had no problems.

While I think she is legit I will still keep my eyes open on this, I will use the contract suggested earlier and want to get the cash checked in a bank before I hand over the keys. She has moved up her schedule and is coming to Dublin this Friday, could anyone tell me if there is a bank in the airport? Is there anything else I should be thinking about?

I was just gonna say, go in to the foreign exchange office (there are 2 of them) up in departures and ask them to check the notes, they'll do it for free if you are nice I'm sure.

metalgear2k2

I think I have to just give her the VRC.

swe_fi

metalgear2k2 wrote: »

I think I have to just give her the VRC.

Leagally maybe (i dont know) , but you can offer to post it

Write a recipt like this

On a blank A4 page
- Put the sellers name and address on the top right hand corner, and date it.
- On the opposite side of the page, the left, underneath, write the buyer's name and address.
- Beneath write in bold, receipt for purchase of car.
Give the details of the car:
* Model, make year and registration number / chassis no (possibly engine no), colour and any distinguishing features
- Write the amount in full that the car was sold for, and in figures. Plus the date.
- Write: full and final settlement - no reclaims, or returns. State The car is sold in the condition it is in (as seen), and the buyer accepts that.
- Then at the bottom write, buyer, seller, and dotted lines for you both to sign.

metalgear2k2

CiniO wrote: »

Just something like that:
http://www.free-legal-document.com/car-sales-agreement.html
You can make it bit shorter, and cut some unneceserily parts, but anyway I wouldn't hand anyone my VRC without signing such thing. And handing VRC is a must because otherwise buyer won't be able to register car is his own country.

Thanks I'm going to use the one suggested earlier as quoted above.

CiniO

swe_fi wrote: »

Leagally maybe (i dont know) , but you can offer to post it

Post it where? To Shannon or to her address in Poland?

Doesn't make sense in both cases.

The can't issue a new VRC in her name, as she's not resident in Ireland.

1. If she's not an idiot, she would never buy a car without VRC.
Without it, she's not legally allowed to drive a car anywhere abroad (outside Ireland - Vienna convention about internetional traffic, requires all drivers to carry VRC with them while in International traffic).

2. She wouldn't be able to register the car back home without it.

To be honest, a contract of sale (or agreement of sale) whichever you call it - is very common on the continent while selling cars. I'd say she will insist anyway for it, as Polish authorities might ask her to produce it either in addition to VRC while registering the car.

Seweryn

swe_fi wrote: »

Leagally maybe (i dont know) , but you can offer to post it ...

That is a nonsense. She can't drive that car back home without having the Registration Document (in case of being stopped for example), never mind registering it after on her name in Poland. The VRC must be given to the new (foreign) owner.

metalgear2k2

Thanks, i will defo be handing over the VRO

swe_fi

Seweryn/Cinio - I was wrong, I have edited my post even

rugbyman

samih wrote: »

It can well be a legit thing given that yours is cheap compared to similar cars in mobile.de for example.

Some of the large engined cars are really cheap in Ireland. Lads in Poland are very handy and, in general, labour is cheap so modifying a RHD to a LHD using parts from e.g. a badly crashed car is not a biggie.

I have been meaning to come on here and ask a question for some time, and you mentioning of changing to LHD has prompted me.

i often work in Belgium and travel on motorways quite a lot. Not a day goes by but I dont see Uk reg and even some Irish reg damaged ,and not damaged cars heading Eastbound on trucks registered in the East. This does not mean they are going to the country of reg of the truck, but they may be.

Among them i have seen a 94 Cork reg mercedes.
is it really a feasible proposition to change over the steering, or are they going for parts. i felt that if they were for parts they could pack them in closer in containers, maybe even cut them up a bit.

Any ideas?

BostonB

A lot of cars are designed for left hand drive originally. Right hand drive is often designed afterwards. Which is why some cars are left hand drive only. As the right hand drive wasn't possible.

I expect if you are driving big distance in europe they might value older more robust, cars, that are similar to maintain. Old mercs and similar.

rugbyman

BOSTON

The merc was a bigger than usual one, mostly vectras, passats etc.
#
my nephew tells me changing over a Golf is easy. but you would need the donor bits from another car, steering rack,i think, pedals ,dashboard etc.

Rugbyman

KindOfIrish

Second hand cars are very expensive in Eastern Europe. To change RHD to LHD not a problem. It is a big business now to buy cars from UK and Ireland and sell it in Eastern Europe.

galwaytt

rugbyman wrote: »

....... i often work in Belgium and travel on motorways quite a lot. Not a day goes by but I dont see Uk reg and even some Irish reg damaged ,and not damaged cars heading Eastbound on trucks registered in the East. ....... Among them i have seen a 94 Cork reg mercedes.

..it wasn't a blue W124 estate, by any chance, was it ?? Curious .....


I wish someone in Poland would frickin' offer to buy my car.........I'd bloody deliver it, as well !

CiniO

galwaytt wrote: »

..it wasn't a blue W124 estate, by any chance, was it ?? Curious .....


I wish someone in Poland would frickin' offer to buy my car.........I'd bloody deliver it, as well !

What car is it?

rebel.ranter

samih wrote: »

It can well be a legit thing given that yours is cheap compared to similar cars in mobile.de for example.

Some of the large engined cars are really cheap in Ireland. Lads in Poland are very handy and, in general, labour is cheap so modifying a RHD to a LHD using parts from e.g. a badly crashed car is not a biggie.

There's a guy on BMW-Driver.net from Poland & he bought an 1999 M3 RHD while he was in Dublin, from the photographs (see link below) it looks like he has brought it home with him & converted it to LGD:
http://www.bmw-driver.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20392
So it is not beyond the realms of pissibility that someone from Poland would be interested in a performance car for sale here in Ireland.
Having said that I would thread carefully & make sure to check everything out.

metalgear2k2

Looks like its defo going ahead for friday, could anyone tell me where there might be a good car wash near the airport? Not an auto wash. thanks.

metalgear2k2

anyone?

metalgear2k2

She has already booked the ferry for the crossing so must be a donedeal in her eyes! she is looking for insurance for the trip back to poland, can anyone recommend where she could get it?

CiniO

metalgear2k2 wrote: »

She has already booked the ferry for the crossing so must be a donedeal in her eyes! she is looking for insurance for the trip back to poland, can anyone recommend where she could get it?

Only what I can think of is that:
http://www.pzu.pl/?nodeid=produkt_pzu_sa&group_id=40&category_id=29809&prod_id=1708

It's a polish insurance policy offered to owners of cars registered abroad.
My only concern is, if she can get it without showing them (in person) car documents (VRC). If it's impossible, then she can't get it until she's in Poland with the car. And it doesn't help. Tell her to call them and ask. Number is on the website.


Otherwise maybe some temporary UK insurers. But as I looked through few, they require insured car to be registered in UK.

That's actually quite big problem for her.

metalgear2k2

Thanks I'll pass that on!

metalgear2k2

seems like she is having a bit of bother with the insurance, this is the last message I got from her:

"I do not know how to arrange this insurance. In Poland they say of you can not do that, I need to buy it in Ireland, as I will be in place. In Poland, insures a car in Ireland and England, the driver. Maybe like I'll be on site to redeem the security back to the Polish? I need insurance for myself and for Tom. Apparently, AXA can sell me this, if you could find out?"

I have rang AXA and they said that she would have to get in Poland. I asked what the situation would be if it was me going to Poland to buy a car and they said that they would change my policy over to any car I wanted to bring into the country temperally to get it here, then it would have to be registered here.
Anyone know if she could just do that with her Polish insurance?

CiniO

metalgear2k2 wrote: »

seems like she is having a bit of bother with the insurance, this is the last message I got from her:

"I do not know how to arrange this insurance. In Poland they say of you can not do that, I need to buy it in Ireland, as I will be in place. In Poland, insures a car in Ireland and England, the driver. Maybe like I'll be on site to redeem the security back to the Polish? I need insurance for myself and for Tom. Apparently, AXA can sell me this, if you could find out?"

I have rang AXA and they said that she would have to get in Poland. I asked what the situation would be if it was me going to Poland to buy a car and they said that they would change my policy over to any car I wanted to bring into the country temperally to get it here, then it would have to be registered here.
Anyone know if she could just do that with her Polish insurance?

No. She can't do it with Polish insurance, as there is no such thing as changing over a car covered by policy. Policy is attached to one vehicle for the whole policy period.

Only what she can do is to get a temporary insurance in Poland (I gave you link before)... Did she ring them? Did she ask if they need to see the car before insuring it? Maybe if she fax them a copy of VRC they will be able to provide cover....


EDIT:
I acutally got so much interested in topic that I rang them.
I was told what I actually expected. You can't get that insurance online or through the phone, but you can get it through one of the insurer local offices. She has to go there with VRC and vehicle sale aggrement/contract - the one I was talking about before (just as a proof that car is actually hers). Only problem is how is she going to go there (in Poland) as she will be in Ireland with a car she just bought.
I asked if it's possible to contact that local office through the phone and fax above documents so he said that it all depends on the local office, but it's possible they'll agree.
So she has to find some PZU local office and talk to them before to make sure.
Good luck.

Besides that shows how deadly needed is some Irish insurer who would provide temporary cover at least for foreigners.


EDIT2:
Other idea came to my mind.
Why don't she try to get one of those online quotes from an Irish insurer. She can give any Irish address (maybe she has some friend in Ireland, etc) and spread the cost over monthly payments and just pay the first instalment by credit card. That would insure her immedietely so she will be able to drive back home.
Then she can ring them, and cancel the policy, as every policy can be canceled at no extra cost in first 14 days. So she'll even get a refund.
Only trick here is that she's not resident in Ireland, and all Irish insurers require you to be resident.
But are they going to check it? Definitely not while obtaining policy. If there was some minor crash and minor claim - most likely not. In case of serious crash - most likely yes. But then she can just move to Ireland and state that she was resident ;P

Seweryn

CiniO wrote: »

Only what she can do is to get a temporary insurance in Poland (I gave you link before)... Did she ring them? Did she ask if they need to see the car before insuring it? Maybe if she fax them a copy of VRC they will be able to provide cover....

To arrange the tempporary cover (valid for one month) she needs the following:
- Car sale agreement in writing (she needs to prepare this) signed by the seller and by the buyer,
- Car registration number,
- VIN number of the car,
- possibly displacement capacity of the engine,
- Car make, model, etc.
Here is another company that she can arrange the insurace with:
http://www.uniqa.pl/uniqa_pl/

Good Luck.