Irish not welcome home

caseyann

Returning Irish emigrants refused State support

“Irish nationals, some of whom left as recently as 18 months ago, are feeling totally abandoned by the State because of what appears to be an increasingly strict interpretation of the Habitual Residence Condition applied in safeguarding the social welfare system from abuse. This includes people returning to Ireland to care for sick or elderly loved ones, even though they are saving the State large sums of money by providing voluntary care.





http://www.advertiser.ie/mayo/article/29350


Considering the fact that the rate of returning Irish immigrants has remained broadly the same since 2005, it is of concern that the number of Irish nationals refused State support under the HRC has increased dramatically within the past two years.



I am all for safeguarding against Social welfare fraud,but sending a message to our own.That if you come home there is no point really shows a real lack of support to the Irish people.

Rabble Rabble

I think what is happening here is this.

They dont have stamps, which have run out.
So you get the other one ( not sure of the precise terminology) which is means tested, and any means at all and you are not eligible.

Carer's allowances are seperate.

OhNoYouDidn't

If they haven't paid their stamps, they aren't entitled to certain payments...

This is what cutbacks look like.

Rabble Rabble

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

If they haven't paid their stamps, they aren't entitled to certain payments...

This is what cutbacks look like.

NO it was always true.

BlaasForRafa

Rabble Rabble wrote: »

NO it was always true.

But it probably wasn't enforced strictly in the past.

Just like the bloody An Post are putting VAT on any parcels from Jersey/China/wherever now. That happened rarely enough before the recession but the government is scrabbling to save/clawback as much money as it can these days.

Penrose

We need to get Irish People back on board, so much talent has left the country because the government will not do anything about the current situation.

limklad

Rabble Rabble wrote: »

I think what is happening here is this.

They dont have stamps, They do not have Stamps!!

Sure they can buy them in the Post office. :rolleyes: Do I need to think of everything. :mad:

Rabble Rabble wrote: »

which have run out.

The Post office has run out of STAMPS :eek:. Call the National Emergency Hotline, the country will ground to a halt without our STAMPS!!

limklad

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

But it probably wasn't enforced strictly in the past.

Just like the bloody An Post are putting VAT on any parcels from Jersey/China/wherever now. That happened rarely enough before the recession but the government is scrabbling to save/clawback as much money as it can these days.

No The Post office do not put VAT on any Parcel, only VAT on Custom service charge on any Parcel outside the EU may be the EEA are also excluded.
They generally put on EU Custom TAX on any parcel coming in from outside the EU and charge Custom collection Service charge and TAX VAT that service charge.
They always have been collecting this Custom Tax but they have lower the Price threshold of Tax collection.

maccored

caseyann wrote: »

That if you come home there is no point really shows a real lack of support to the Irish people.

thats probably the message our loving government is trying to portray imo

Amhran Nua

Rabble Rabble wrote: »

and any means at all and you are not eligible.

If your means are less than around €200 or so a week, your means are deducted from your payments. If your means are more than that, you get nothing. If you're looking after someone who is disabled you are entitled to home carer's allowance and numerous other benefits.

Under no circumstances should an Irish citizen in Ireland be left without sufficient funds or means for accommodation, heat, and food.

If this is happening, as I've heard rumblings here and there that it is, you can appeal the community welfare officer's decision on a couple of levels. If that fails and people are being left on the streets, we have a complete failure of the system and are on the brink of something extremely nasty indeed. I don't think we're anywhere near that far gone though.

caseyann

maccored wrote: »

thats probably the message our loving government is trying to portray imo

To family of elders and the ill dont come back or we will leave you high and dry and stuff your sick and elderly.
Also perhaps those who are skilled and have alot to offer and will be in jobs in a few months after claiming small amount of jsa,and have got stamps but ran out because not in the country.


Is there a time frame if you left the country the if you didnt claim stamps they would become useless?

Liam Byrne

Hmmm.....there's a restriction on what you get based on where you've lived for the last 18 months, and they're clamping down on it so that no-one claims what they're not entitled to ?

Someone warn Ivor, quick!

Sponge Bob

Claim refugee status, that should tide you over. 8)

Revolution9

Too bloody right.
The Irish ruined Ireland.

KindOfIrish

In legal terms, there is no more of an Irish person. We are all EU nationals and treated equally. Doesn't matter Irish, Pole or French national you are.

Amhran Nua

KindOfIrish wrote: »

In legal terms, there is no more of an Irish person. We are all EU nationals and treated equally. Doesn't matter Irish, Pole or French national you are.

Eh there certainly is a legal difference between an Irish citizen, an EU or EEA migrant, and a non EU/EEA immigrant, in terms of entitlements and what happens if you become destitute or homeless.

caseyann

KindOfIrish wrote: »

In legal terms, there is no more of an Irish person. We are all EU nationals and treated equally. Doesn't matter Irish, Pole or French national you are.

You may be an EU national i am Irish,And i can Guarantee you that every other nationality feels exactly the same about their own nationality.
We are EU nationals blah.

A Dub in Glasgo

KindOfIrish wrote: »

In legal terms, there is no more of an Irish person. We are all EU nationals and treated equally. Doesn't matter Irish, Pole or French national you are.

Why can't resident EU nationals (non UK) vote in general elections then?

OhNoYouDidn't

I'm unsure of what the OP is proposing really. That I can piss off to Spain for a couple of years and return to Ireland and hit the scratcher on top whack despite not having any PRSI in the kitty?

Shea O'Meara

Ideally you would return home with enough money to tide you over until you got a job, but the way the world is people may be on their uppers abroad and feel they may as well be at home with family and friends. Either way most would have previously worked and paid tax in Ireland, if not them their immediate family. I'm fine with somebody returning and signing on welfare. It's generally those people who send money home to help out from time to time. I don't believe anybody intentionally moves abroad for a number of years to return home cap in hand.
I do believe FFail, as they were in power the last time we saw this kind of economic disaster, love people leaving as it keeps employment numbers down, so I can see why they'd be bolting the door behind them.

jock101

Well, the Irish Freestate can keep its dodgy passports and nationality, because when I go, Im gone. I will become a citizen of my new country! A proper decent society! What does the OP statement say about this place when this so called country has no welcome for its sons and daughters!:rolleyes::mad:

caseyann

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

I'm unsure of what the OP is proposing really. That I can piss off to Spain for a couple of years and return to Ireland and hit the scratcher on top whack despite not having any PRSI in the kitty?

Ah sure our own arent welcome to come home to care for their sick family or elderly(who in all likely hood are the people who built this country) but other nationalities are allowed to bring their families in and claim for them,never a tax punt or euro ever paid lmao

This is the one tournament where I tell folks, this is not a sport.”

djpbarry

caseyann wrote: »

I am all for safeguarding against Social welfare fraud,but sending a message to our own.That if you come home there is no point really shows a real lack of support to the Irish people.

You think we should offer unconditional welfare support to anyone with an Irish passport? Bear in mind that, relative to the population of this country, there is quite a staggering number of Irish nationals out there.

Penrose wrote: »

We need to get Irish People back on board, so much talent has left the country...

Quite a large amount of non-Irish talent has also left the country in recent years.

djpbarry

caseyann wrote: »

Ah sure our own arent welcome to come home to care for their sick family or elderly(who in all likely hood are the people who built this country) but other nationalities are allowed to bring their families in and claim for them,never a tax punt or euro ever paid lmao

Yes, all the foreigners are coming over and (metaphorically) raping our sick grandparents. Please...

caseyann

djpbarry wrote: »

You think we should offer unconditional welfare support to anyone with an Irish passport? Bear in mind that, relative to the population of this country, there is quite a staggering number of Irish nationals out there.
Quite a large amount of non-Irish talent has also left the country in recent years.

God no i dont i am saying that the ones who come back have they stamps or worked previously are entitled to claim,if it is needed.Like for instance,people who have to come home to care for family members or wait what about people who paid taxes in other EU countries isnt that meant to be the same?
There actually should be jobs for those people when they come home,Hopefully most do.
But they certainly can hand it over to refugees who havent paid a red cent but not help their own.:rolleyes:

caseyann

djpbarry wrote: »

Yes, all the foreigners are coming over and (metaphorically) raping our sick grandparents. Please...

Grow up and get a cop on :rolleyes:

caseyann

Shea O'Meara wrote: »

Ideally you would return home with enough money to tide you over until you got a job, but the way the world is people may be on their uppers abroad and feel they may as well be at home with family and friends. Either way most would have previously worked and paid tax in Ireland, if not them their immediate family. I'm fine with somebody returning and signing on welfare. It's generally those people who send money home to help out from time to time. I don't believe anybody intentionally moves abroad for a number of years to return home cap in hand.
I do believe FFail, as they were in power the last time we saw this kind of economic disaster, love people leaving as it keeps employment numbers down, so I can see why they'd be bolting the door behind them.

The thing is the people who are coming back to care for sick,and some of these people are only gone 18 months.So the likely hood is they tried to hit another country for jobs or they had jobs and contract finished.How come if they are say in EU their stamps dont carry home

OhNoYouDidn't

caseyann wrote: »

Ah sure our own arent welcome to come home to care for their sick family or elderly(who in all likely hood are the people who built this country) but other nationalities are allowed to bring their families in and claim for them,never a tax punt or euro ever paid lmao

This is the one tournament where I tell folks, this is not a sport.”

They are welcome home, they just have to be means tested for certain grants in the same way everyone else is.

You make it sound like they are getting turned away at Dublin Airport.

JustinDee

Rabble Rabble wrote: »

I think what is happening here is this . . .

People wanted stricter control over and assessment of social welfare benefits and have now got it.
Unless there are specific cases to exemplify, this article and the Minister's comments are just a pot-stirrer.

djpbarry

caseyann wrote: »

...what about people who paid taxes in other EU countries isnt that meant to be the same?

In a sense, yes. Social insurance credits are transferrable, but I believe the last contribution needs to be made in Ireland. This is to prevent people from packing in a job in another EU state and then coming straight to Ireland to sign on.

caseyann wrote: »

There actually should be jobs for those people when they come home...

There should be? I don’t know what you mean by that?

caseyann wrote: »

But they certainly can hand it over to refugees who havent paid a red cent...

Sure “they” do. A whopping €19 per week and a truck-load of stigma to boot. Wow. Gotta get me some of that action.

The amount of money spent on hosting asylum seekers (I presume that’s who you are referring to) in this country is a pittance compared to our welfare bill, so I don’t know what you’re trying to prove by introducing them into the discussion.

caseyann

djpbarry wrote: »

In a sense, yes. Social insurance credits are transferrable, but I believe the last contribution needs to be made in Ireland. This is to prevent people from packing in a job in another EU state and then coming straight to Ireland to sign on.
There should be? I don’t know what you mean by that?
Sure “they” do. A whopping €19 per week and a truck-load of stigma to boot. Wow. Gotta get me some of that action.

The amount of money spent on hosting asylum seekers (I presume that’s who you are referring to) in this country is a pittance compared to our welfare bill, so I don’t know what you’re trying to prove by introducing them into the discussion.

(To the bold)A place to live food clothing education,electricity heating water,and travel expenses and medical care.
There is no stigma attached to them,they do eventually get out of the nineteen euro and allowed to claim social welfare rent allowance etc.. while on appeal even if denied.
And refugees never paid a red cent here either when they are through the system and get paid.

I would gladly take 19 euro a week if they took the fecking bills and gave me free clothes and education and health care etc.. lol


Well how does that work out,is that not unfair? I dont believe they have that measure in Poland etc.. and they can actually leave their family at home and claim welfare for them there also while working here and if loss of job can claim in both countries.( I have heard this from Other nationalities) So open for correction.

If someone has paid tax here previously and or in EU counter parts,they should be entitled to claim JSA when they get off the plane yes.

OhNoYouDidn't

caseyann wrote: »

(To the bold)A place to live food clothing education,electricity heating water,and travel expenses and medical care.
There is no stigma attached to them,they do eventually get out of the nineteen euro and allowed to claim social welfare rent allowance etc.. while on appeal even if denied.
And refugees never paid a red cent here either when they are through the system and get paid.

And they are banned from living anywhere else and from working. Hardly ideal.

caseyann wrote: »

(I would gladly take 19 euro a week if they took the fecking bills and gave me free clothes and education and health care etc.. lol

So you would be happy to live in a camp and not be allowed even look for work for €19 p/w? Do me a favour.

caseyann wrote: »

(Well how does that work out,is that not unfair? I dont believe they have that measure in Poland etc.. and they can actually leave their family at home and claim welfare for them there also while working here and if loss of job can claim in both countries.( I have heard this from Other nationalities) So open for correction.

Did you hear that in the pub or from a taxi driver?

caseyann wrote: »

(If someone has paid tax here previously and or in EU counter parts,they should be entitled to claim JSA when they get off the plane yes.

They are entitled to JSA ffs. Read your own link

caseyann

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

And they are banned from living anywhere else and from working. Hardly ideal.



So you would be happy to live in a camp and not be allowed even look for work for €19 p/w? Do me a favour.




Did you hear that in the pub or from a taxi driver?



They are entitled to JSA ffs. Read your own link

Ah the life of sitting back and having no worries sounds ideal.Who in right mind works because they love their job,Very few and far between.

No i heard it from a few Polish people.

caseyann

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

They are entitled to JSA ffs. Read your own link

“Considering the fact that the rate of returning Irish immigrants has remained broadly the same since 2005, it is of concern that the number of Irish nationals refused State support under the HRC has increased dramatically within the past two years.

OhNoYouDidn't

caseyann wrote: »

“Considering the fact that the rate of returning Irish immigrants has remained broadly the same since 2005, it is of concern that the number of Irish nationals refused State support under the HRC has increased dramatically within the past two years.

HRC =/= JSA

OhNoYouDidn't

caseyann wrote: »

Ah the life of sitting back and having no worries sounds ideal.Who in right mind works because they love their job,Very few and far between.

No i heard it from a few Polish people.

Patronising waffle. You think they fled their homes for €19 a week in a camp and no right to work? Get real.

caseyann

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

HRC =/= JSA

Refused <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

caseyann

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Patronising waffle. You think they fled their homes for €19 a week in a camp and no right to work? Get real.

You dont even know a single one do you lol
It would be only patronizing if i was'nt been truthful about the comment,when in actual fact i was.

And back to thread reason.
Point anyway is obviously they are sending a message to people that if you wish to become a carer for your sick or elderly dont bother cause you wont get it if you come back.

OhNoYouDidn't

caseyann wrote: »

You dont even know a single one do you lol
It would be only patronizing if i was'nt been truthful about the comment,when in actual fact i was.

If you think asylum seekers have a "life of sitting back and having no worries" on €19 per week with no right to leave the camp they are in and even look for work, then we inhabit different planets.

Not that any of this is in any way shape or form relevent to people not automatically being entitled to social welfare payments.

OhNoYouDidn't

caseyann wrote: »

Point anyway is obviously they are sending a message to people that if you wish to become a carer for your sick or elderly dont bother cause you wont get it if you come back.

So we are agreed it has nothing to do with the JSA as you said earlier.

Are they treated any differently to Irish people who lived here? No. So what is your point?

djpbarry

caseyann wrote: »

There is no stigma attached to them...

No stigma attached to asylum seeking? Pull the other one.

caseyann wrote: »

...they do eventually get out of the nineteen euro...

If their application for asylum is successful.

caseyann wrote: »

...and allowed to claim social welfare rent allowance...

If they qualify through social insurance contributions, just like everyone else.

caseyann wrote: »

And refugees never paid a red cent here either when they are through the system and get paid.

I don’t have a clue what you’re saying here.

caseyann wrote: »

I would gladly take 19 euro a week if they took the fecking bills and gave me free clothes and education and health care etc.. lol

Off you go and apply for asylum somewhere so.

caseyann wrote: »

Well how does that work out,is that not unfair? I dont believe they have that measure in Poland etc.. and they can actually leave their family at home and claim welfare for them there also while working here and if loss of job can claim in both countries.

Honestly, I don’t have a notion what you’re trying to say here. Is this a response to something I posted? What “measure” are you referring to?

caseyann wrote: »

If someone has paid tax here previously and or in EU counter parts,they should be entitled to claim JSA when they get off the plane yes.

I think you will find that a large number of people in this country will disagree with you.

southsiderosie

caseyann wrote: »

Ah sure our own arent welcome to come home to care for their sick family or elderly(who in all likely hood are the people who built this country) but other nationalities are allowed to bring their families in and claim for them,never a tax punt or euro ever paid lmao

djpbarry wrote: »

You think we should offer unconditional welfare support to anyone with an Irish passport? Bear in mind that, relative to the population of this country, there is quite a staggering number of Irish nationals out there.

Caseyann, do you have any idea how many people living in the US, Australia, and New Zealand have dual citizenship? Access to welfare simply cannot be because of nationality, it has to be based on residency and actual work history. Otherwise, who is to say that an American whose grandfather was from Mayo couldn't just hop over and sign on?

If they were working within the EU, they may be entitled to benefits in their previous country of residence.

No non-resident can just hop over and claim for their family; there are residency and work requirements. Asylum seekers cannot claim benefits and they cannot work, so there is no place for them in this thread.

Honestly, this just seems like ****-stirring to me.

caseyann

The inconsistent enforcement of an 'habitual residency' requirement -- originally designed to stop welfare tourism from eastern Europe -- is causing enormous hardship.

The problem is so bad that some Irish citizens are ending up on the streets as a result, the Dail's Committee on Social Protection was told.


The number of Irish citizens being turned down as habitual residents -- a condition for social welfare entitlements -- has doubled in the past two years, with 1,723 rejected between 2008 and 2009, and a total of 3,261 in all since the measure was introduced in 2004, Crosscare said.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/over-3000-returning-irish-refused-dole-2397877.html

And it gets worse.:mad:

caseyann

southsiderosie wrote: »

Caseyann, do you have any idea how many people living in the US, Australia, and New Zealand have dual citizenship? Access to welfare simply cannot be because of nationality, it has to be based on residency and actual work history. Otherwise, who is to say that an American whose grandfather was from Mayo couldn't just hop over and sign on?

If they were working within the EU, they may be entitled to benefits in their previous country of residence.

No non-resident can just hop over and claim for their family; there are residency and work requirements. Asylum seekers cannot claim benefits and they cannot work, so there is no place for them in this thread.

Honestly, this just seems like ****-stirring to me.

If someone Irish wants to come home they should be able and given that right to claim before anyone else tbh

southsiderosie

caseyann wrote: »

If someone Irish wants to come home they should be able and given that right to claim before anyone else tbh

SO my mother who was born and raised in the US but entitled to Irish citizenship through her grandfather should be able to come over and claim the dole even though she has never worked in Ireland, or anywhere else in the EU for that matter? And she should take precedence over a Pole who has been working in Ireland since 2004, has paid taxes, and settled there with his family?

That's insane.

southsiderosie

caseyann wrote: »

The inconsistent enforcement of an 'habitual residency' requirement -- originally designed to stop welfare tourism from eastern Europe -- is causing enormous hardship.

The problem is so bad that some Irish citizens are ending up on the streets as a result, the Dail's Committee on Social Protection was told.


The number of Irish citizens being turned down as habitual residents -- a condition for social welfare entitlements -- has doubled in the past two years, with 1,723 rejected between 2008 and 2009, and a total of 3,261 in all since the measure was introduced in 2004, Crosscare said.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/over-3000-returning-irish-refused-dole-2397877.html

And it gets worse.:mad:

The woman in that article worked in the US for SEVENTEEN YEARS. Why should she be entitled to Irish benefits? Not to mention the fact that she can collect US unemployment. That article is absurd.

caseyann

southsiderosie wrote: »

SO my mother who was born and raised in the US but entitled to Irish citizenship through her grandfather should be able to come over and claim the dole even though she has never worked in Ireland, or anywhere else in the EU for that matter? And she should take precedence over a Pole who has been working in Ireland since 2004, has paid taxes, and settled there with his family?

That's insane.

No its not insane,they can claim to the amount they paid in tax but then enough is enough as i said unless they own property here(no work no stay).And yes because your mothers family blood and guts for this country

NewHillel

caseyann wrote: »

Grow up and get a cop on :rolleyes:

Pot, kettle...

southsiderosie

caseyann wrote: »

No its not insane,they can claim to the amount they paid in tax but then enough is enough as i said unless they own property here(no work no stay).And yes because your mothers family blood and guts for this country

My mother has never done **** for Ireland except go on two overpriced holidays there. The people who should be entitled to benefits are the people who have WORKED in Ireland. And that applies to immigrants who have settled there AND natives.

caseyann

southsiderosie wrote: »

The woman in that article worked in the US for SEVENTEEN YEARS. Why should she be entitled to Irish benefits? Not to mention the fact that she can collect US unemployment. That article is absurd.

And her family built this country and paid taxes all their lives and built this country.

caseyann

southsiderosie wrote: »

My mother has never done **** for Ireland except go on two overpriced holidays there. The people who should be entitled to benefits are the people who have WORKED in Ireland. And that applies to immigrants who have settled there AND natives.

Will never agree with you so just leave it at that