Could The IMF Do A Better Job?

senordingdong

http://new.breakingnews.ie/ireland/imf-taking-control-would-cause-untold-social-harm-warns-economist-477127.html

An Irish economist has today warned about the stark changes the International Monetary Fund (IMF) would introduce to the State, should the body be charged with running the country's finances.

Ciaran Mac an Bhaird, a lecturer in business and management in DCU, sais that it is of the utmost importance that correct budgetary decisions are made immediately by the Government.

Mr Mac an Bhaird warned that we must make cuts to social welfare if necessary, or we risk losing sovereign control of the State.

"If we don't deal with this now, fast, you could be looking at the IMF and EU telling us what to do," he said.

"If we've got to make cuts to social welfare, we'll make them. If the EU or IMF come in, they will top-slice everything. They will cause untold social harm."

Does anybody else think that the IMF would do a better job of sorting the countries finances out?

I'm inclined to think that they would as they would have a better unbiased opinion on what to do.

And we can all agree that so long as Lenihan & Fianna Failure are in control of it, they won't be cutting the TDs over inflated salaries, or the 2.5 million euro they managed to rack up in expenses during the Dail summer break.

galwayrush

My kids could do a better job.

Blazer

Maybe at sorting the finances out but guaranteed the corporation tax would be the first to be increased..and that will do long term damage to the country..
France/Uk/Germany and all the top dogs in the EU would love nothing better than to raise Ireland's corporation tax.

senordingdong

Sc@recrow wrote: »

Maybe at sorting the finances out but guaranteed the corporation tax would be the first to be increased..and that will do long term damage to the country..
France/Uk/Germany and all the top dogs in the EU would love nothing better than to raise Ireland's corporation tax.

I've given it some thought and think that the corporation tax might not be as great a thing as we all think.

At the very least it's a double edged sword.

galwayrush

senordingdong wrote: »

I've given it some thought and think that the corporation tax might not be as great a thing as we all think.

At the very least it's a double edged sword.

It would be very bad regarding the thousands of mutinational jobs which are only here because of the low corporation tax.

senordingdong

galwayrush wrote: »

It would be very bad regarding the thousands of mutinational jobs which are only here because of the low corporation tax.

Yeah, but these companies setting up here because of a low tax rate, could just as ficcally(sp?) leave Ireland.
Look at Dell.
They didn't give a toss about skilled labour or good performance, just wanted the cheapest deal.

And as a result, countless jobs were lost after such a huge dependancy was invested in Dell.

MagicMarker

I'm surprised the journalist who wrote that can't spell ''says''.

But anyhoo, Paul the Octopus could do a better job!!

Pompey Magnus

If they would ditch the Croke Park agreement then I would welcome our new IMF overlords.

faceman

In a word, "no"

In 3 words, "no, probably not"

In 6 words, "that would be an ecumenical matter"

Berty

I dont know what a tracker mortgage is.

dizzydiesel

Allowing IMF to create the next budget would be suicide. Everything will get hit massively.

Higher Taxes
Lower child benefit
Lower dole
Corp tax hike
Property tax
Water tax

We'll all be killed!

Lando Griffin

The IMF are partically to blame for the mess we are in at present by giving the ok to the Government policies over the years.
If they (IMF) had done their job properly, then the Government wouldn't have implemented such policies.
They and the opposition never shouted stop and gave the go ahead to all this spending and everything.
Anyway, we will get over this little problem in a few years and with a few little reajustments here and a little tweek there this country will be the financial powerhouse it once was, and this time the FF government will be sure to learn from its mistakes and build an economy the likes of Japaneese.

orourkeda

I blame your oul one

The answer is that we put out to tender the running of the country....we get a few large company's, including the IMF to tender for the job they get a five year contract then its up for renewal.... then we vote for the one we like the best...provided they do an efficient cost effective job...we get rid of the political system altogether?.

virmilitaris

Lando Griffin wrote: »

The IMF are partically to blame for the mess we are in at present by giving the ok to the Government policies over the years.
If they (IMF) had done their job properly, then the Government wouldn't have implemented such policies.

The IMf are partially to blame for 'allowing' our elected eejits to make decisions ?

That's like saying people who walk home alone are partially to blame for getting mugged.

mikom

At this stage the EMF would do a better job.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waacof2saZw

Pookah

mikom wrote: »

At this stage the EMF would do a better job.

KLF would be better again.

They've money to burn, that crowd.

humanji

Considering Tom Cruise is a Scientologist, I don't want him anywhere near running this country.

bonerm

mariaalice wrote: »

The answer is that we put out to tender the running of the country....we get a few large company's, including the IMF to tender for the job they get a five year contract then its up for renewal.... then we vote for the one we like the best...provided they do an efficient cost effective job...we get rid of the political system altogether?.

Wasn't that Enda Kenny's exact mantra at the last election (or am I missing the joke entirely)? Turns out he lost the "contract" to another equally useless bunch of cowboys - only with better leaflets.

thebigbiffo

Lando Griffin wrote: »

The IMF are partically to blame for the mess we are in at present by giving the ok to the Government policies over the years.
If they (IMF) had done their job properly, then the Government wouldn't have implemented such policies.

now we're blaming the IMF...

no. the IMF never had/do not have control over individual countries financial affairs until they've 'folded'...something we have not done (yet).

the country would not be better off if the IMF came in. higher taxes, cuts in spending, public sector redundancies...oh wait...

seriously - no. you do not want the IMF to run this country

senordingdong

dizzydiesel wrote: »

Allowing IMF to create the next budget would be suicide. Everything will get hit massively.

Higher Taxes
Lower child benefit
Lower dole
Corp tax hike
Property tax
Water tax

We'll all be killed!

And aren't these all measures that FF are planning?

Furthermore...
(borrowed from Biggins who got from the Guardian)

... Ireland operates like a one-party state and the government is just the political wing of that elite comprising developers, bankers and newspaper owners, with a whole network of vested interests descending into almost every corner of the Irish state and economic life.

Of the €50bn of taxpayers money now committed to bail out the disastrous gamblers of the Irish banking system, nearly four-fifths of that sum is going into one bank, Anglo Irish. This bank has no high-street branches and so no claim to be part of the essential infrastructure of the country. And it is a bank which economic advisers have consistently told the government not to include in the blanket bank guarantee, because the scale and rottenness of its debt will surely bring the whole house of cards down.

So why is the government so interested in this bank? There is absolutely no transparency. No minutes of key meetings, or of the workings of the National Asset Management Agency (Nama), which is managing bank debts for the government, have seen the light of day. In fact it is in the Nama legislation that its workings can't be disclosed and that staff who speak about their work will be subject to criminal proceedings. Neither will key ministers answer questions about any personal investments in this bank. Could it be that the majority of investors in Anglo Irish are the same elite who also control the government? Cock-up or conspiracy?

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...-corrupt-elite

I don't think we can trust anyone in this country to fix it without putting themselves and their buddies first.

Sea Sharp

The IMF would do what needs to be done to balance the budget in the shortest amount of time possible. This approach would be beneficial for the country in the long run as it will avoid us having to borrow an additional 30 or 40 billion over the next 4 years so that we can wean ourselves off what we are currently used to with 4bn in cuts for each December budget.

Unfortunately for us, what needs to be done to balance the budget will screw a lot of people over and create mayhem so the government is too afraid to make the necessary changes but the IMF doesn't care. Containing riots is cheaper than spending money that we don't have to keep everybody happy.

homerjay2005

dizzydiesel wrote: »

Allowing IMF to create the next budget would be suicide. Everything will get hit massively.

Higher Taxes
Lower child benefit
Lower dole
Corp tax hike
Property tax
Water tax

We'll all be killed!

apart from higher taxes, the rest dont bother me. i would means test the dole and child benifit anyway for sure and cut it by up to 50% for those who are too lazy to get work.

should we get the IMF in? probably not, but if they did come in, at least they would slash public sector jobs to start with anyway and rid the country of the huge social budget that we have.

Adamisconfused

senordingdong wrote: »

I've given it some thought and think that the corporation tax might not be as great a thing as we all think.

At the very least it's a double edged sword.

It wouldn't do any harm to lower corporation tax further. Many multinational companies are barely holding on as it is. Several others have already left.
We always heard that they were here because of an educated, English speaking workforce, low costs (when many first arrived), low corporation tax and the ability to use Ireland as a gateway into Europe.
With the entry of Eastern European counties into the EU, any MNC can find educated as well as cheap labour in those states, all the while keeping their gateway into Europe thanks to these places now being in the EU. However, for example, Poland has a corporation rate of 19%. Even with that being the case, it is still more beneficial for these companies to set up there.


Obviously, they will always choose countries until they get a better deal here. They're basically vultures, but for the time being, we need them. The cost of doing business will finally decrease in Ireland. I imagine these companies will be able to find labour here for 40% less than they could five years ago. Land prices should have hit the floor already, but have been kept high by the likes of NAMA. Our population is still educated and English speaking. To raise corp tax now would be insane. I believe we can attract mroe investment, but at the very least, we should not increase costs so much that it becomes worthwhile for the current MNCs to move.

Adamisconfused

The IMF will cut and slash every single social improvement we've made to this country in the last fifty years. Standards of education, healthcare and social welfare will decrease significantly just so we can service debts that otherwise we would have no choice but to default on.
You can bet your last Euro that they will insist on us paying back loans that our useless government took out in order to pay for their boys in the bank.

DubDani

dizzydiesel wrote: »

Allowing IMF to create the next budget would be suicide. Everything will get hit massively.

Higher Taxes
Lower child benefit
Lower dole
Corp tax hike
Property tax
Water tax

We'll all be killed!

That's exactly what has to be done, and it doesn't matter if by the IMF or whatever government in power.

Higher Taxes => More people have to be brought into the tax net. every single person has to contribute

Lower Child Benefit => slight cut for all, and then means tested

Lower Dole => Yes, for everyone that is unemployed for more then a year (just an example) to get rid of the deadwood that doesn't wanna work at all.

Corp Tax Hike => Difficult one, but in the long run I don't think we can keep it this low.

Property Tax => Will have to come if people want to keep their reasonable low (compared to other countries) Income taxes

Water Tax => IMO should have brought in ages ago, but not as a moneyspinner, but to ensure people make proper use of Water.

i_love_toast

The only reason I would like to see the IMF come into this country is to cut the fat out of this country. some thing that will NEVER be done under any political party this country has.

-166 TD's....BOOM...have 80!

Senate?....senate what?....gone!

- Top heavy management in the civil service. 6 managers doing a job 2 could easily do....get rid of them.

- dole.....cut it.

- single married mother allowance.....get rid of it.

- TD's expenses.

- Civil service executives on the 2million a year pay....freeze it!

- 2000 Qoangos (spelling ?)....absolute wastes of money!!!


serious though, these are all measures that the IMF will take to get there money back. Once all of the above it done and properly we will see a much better and smoother run country.

senordingdong

i_love_toast wrote: »

The only reason I would like to see the IMF come into this country is to cut the fat out of this country. some thing that will NEVER be done under any political party this country has.

-166 TD's....BOOM...have 80!

Senate?....senate what?....gone!

- Top heavy management in the civil service. 6 managers doing a job 2 could easily do....get rid of them.

- dole.....cut it.

- single married mother allowance.....get rid of it.

- TD's expenses.

- Civil service executives on the 2million a year pay....freeze it!

- 2000 Qoangos (spelling ?)....absolute wastes of money!!!


serious though, these are all measures that the IMF will take to get there money back. Once all of the above it done and properly we will see a much better and smoother run country.

Hit the nail on the head.

Bringing in the IMF would be a bit like going to a loan shark to clear your credit card debts, they will not care how painful the cuts are as long as they have their money back.

senordingdong

But everyone agress that the gvt. won't make the cuts where there is plenty of money to spare, but will isntead target public spending which is already in need of a huge overhaul.

We need to go back to the begining and start from scratch.

curlzy

i_love_toast wrote: »

The only reason I would like to see the IMF come into this country is to cut the fat out of this country. some thing that will NEVER be done under any political party this country has.

-166 TD's....BOOM...have 80! - AGREED, good idea

-Senate?....senate what?....gone! - AGREED, good idea

- Top heavy management in the civil service. 6 managers doing a job 2 could easily do....get rid of them. - AGREED, good idea

- dole.....cut it. - NOPE, the cost of living is still too high, when that drops then drop the dole

- single married mother allowance.....get rid of it. - Starving children?, em nope really bad idea.

- TD's expenses. - AGREED, good idea

- Civil service executives on the 2million a year pay....freeze it! - Highest paid civil service grade is €154,000, so this point is way off but 154,000 is way to high anyway and should be dropped.

- 2000 Qoangos (spelling ?)....absolute wastes of money!!! - AGREED, good idea

I think we should cut the fat from the fat people as it were and not from people already struggling. They should change the law so they can take the money from the people that f*cked us over in the first place, i.e. the bankers, property developers etc. As it is they've put their money in their spouses names or moved country, we should make them pay up. I'd like to think that's what the IMF would do but I doubt it.

senordingdong

senordingdong wrote: »

But everyone agress that the gvt. won't make the cuts where there is plenty of money to spare, but will isntead target public spending which is already in need of a huge overhaul.

We need to go back to the begining and start from scratch.

I totaly agree that the govt needs to cut waste (quangos & excessive salaries) and collect fair taxes (far too many loopholes), but the IMF are not interested in how the savings are made - they'll just want the money.

An additional higher rate of tax and cutting things like rent allowance which were set in the tiger days would make signifigant savings.