The case against Metro North - is there one?

cavedave

LeinsterDub

cavedave "What probability do you think there is that autonomous vehicles will be regularly seen on Irish roads in 2020?"

0% more chance of Hydrogen cars

I'll take those odds. How much are you willing to bet?

History is full of examples of infrastructure projects being superceded by technology shortly after they were built and I am willing to bet that this is one

eminoz

Go ahead! just jump in for once (well, the work has been done), on the basis of "When you're on the Titanic you don't go steerage".

The northside has been totally neglected - all southsiders know about it is as a route to the airport. Idiots. So how about getting to the airport faster? Go on, you know you want to speed through asap?

I did think that the route was rubbish - it replicates existing bus corridors etc, BUT people just don't like getting wet. They Like arriving in an airport and going down to a train line. Don't know why getting dumped on by our weather, crossing roads and being landed in An Lar in the dark is a problem, but there you are - we're spoilt.
BTW, the swerve in the route to take in Drumcondra (hmmm, already on a train line) is dumb. The route could and should have been more western, a straight line taking in Sparkling, Phizzing Phibsborough - and linking happily with numerous bus routes and a very convenient existing disused train line (mightn't even have needed a separate line to grangegorman - why, oh why was this factor ignored and the swervy route chosen? (replies welcome, esp from anybody called B Ahern.)

jd

eminoz wrote: »

BTW, the swerve in the route to take in Drumcondra (hmmm, already on a train line) is dumb.

It means that passengers on then metro can change for the train- when the dart upgrade is completed it would mean one change for Bray/Greystones or Maynooth

eminoz

Right, but also possible at "old Broadstone line" interchange. Don't want to ignore Drumcondra, just spread transport around efficiently to as many deprived commuters as possible.

paulm17781

eminoz wrote: »

The northside has been totally neglected - all southsiders know about it is as a route to the airport. Idiots. So how about getting to the airport faster? Go on, you know you want to speed through asap?

I'm a southsider, I know far more than that. Let's not play the blame the neighbours game.

eminoz

Sorry, but good to know about exceptions to rule (and I say this as a south sider); Some of my best friends are ssiders too - and terrified when they come north of Liffey.
Some early objections were from people afraid their cars would be stolen on north side (though am considering it as possible new business opportunity - just to annoy them). Would love excellent hospital here but... the traffic?

Aard

eminoz wrote: »

BTW, the swerve in the route to take in Drumcondra (hmmm, already on a train line) is dumb.

You're right: it's already on a train line, making it a prime interchange point. That's how networks work. An overlap without an interchange is exactly the same as the two Luas lines that don't meet, which is always ridiculed. There is no other station in the north inner suburbs that could act as a substitute. Having this overlap is likely to add to passenger number more than routing the line through an area that isn't "already on a train line".

eminoz wrote: »

The route could and should have been more western, a straight line taking in Sparkling, Phizzing Phibsborough - and linking happily with numerous bus routes and a very convenient existing disused train line (mightn't even have needed a separate line to grangegorman - why, oh why was this factor ignored and the swervy route chosen? (replies welcome, esp from anybody called B Ahern.)

That Bertie Ahern is from Drumcondra and that the route takes in Drumcondra Station is a coincidence. Even the most anti-Bertie would agree that there is no better interchange point, and that an interchange is necessary. Suggesting otherwise is disingenuous.

I agree with you, however, about the old Broadstone alignment. In another thread, I suggested that the metro be forked, with one end following Metro North, and the other following Broadstone into Finglas. The current idea of the Luas using the alignment doesn't take the maximum advantage of it, but that's for another thread.

eminoz

Take your point on station - if a metro. My issue has been (and I did go to trouble of making submissions at time to RPA, etc) that the routes and types chosen seemed so inefficient (I’m paraphrasing). But you don’t get a reasoned or any response to views, so few really know why a Metro was chosen over other options in the first place or why the other options, allowing efficient interlinking of existing routes were not considered. I concede, though. Am even boring myself.
So as I mentioned earlier, perhaps it’s time to just get on with the Metro – let’s have something to anticipate? (Other than an iceberg).
(BTW, in post yesterday, sorry for confusing with reference to Mater –another though not unrelated topic.)

monument

eminoz wrote: »

BTW, the swerve in the route to take in Drumcondra (hmmm, already on a train line) is dumb. The route could and should have been more western, a straight line taking in Sparkling, Phizzing Phibsborough - and linking happily with numerous bus routes and a very convenient existing disused train line (mightn't even have needed a separate line to grangegorman - why, oh why was this factor ignored and the swervy route chosen? (replies welcome, esp from anybody called B Ahern.)

Most of Phibsborough is covered by the Matter site.

It's about a 5/6mins walk from Phibsborough Shopping Centre to the Matter -- from most of the rest of Phibsborough, it's about 10mins.

The shopping centre area and Mountjoy are the most likely areas to see redevelopment in the future and most of that is about 5mins or closer to the Matter stop.

The Grangegorman (BXD) Luas also serves areas such as Cabbra and ends just south of Finglas with a view to extending it at some stage.

waxon-waxoff

I have used Dublin airport twice this year, taking the Aircoach both times. Two of these bus journeys were at peak times but there was no major delay. Dublin Bus airport service uses the port tunnel so that should run smoothly also. Dublin airport is much more convenient to the city than many other cities and takes about 30 minutes to reach O' Connell St. My point; there is no problem getting into the city centre using existing methods so there is no need for a metro.

With falling passenger numbers the trains will run half empty and so the taxpayer will have to subsidise it. This project is based on out of date statistics just like terminal two. Planners were wrong about demand for housing and they are wrong about this also. The Government seem to ignore common sense and trust every word from their bought-in advisers who are eager to secure more state contracts.

Aard

THE METRO IS NOT JUST A SHUTTLE BETWEEN THE AIRPORT AND CITY CENTRE!


Sorry about the caps, but it needs to be said. There is also north Dublin city, and Swords. The airport is just a part of the whole.

saeglopur

waxon-waxoff wrote: »

I have used Dublin airport twice this year, taking the Aircoach both times. Two of these bus journeys were at peak times but there was no major delay. Dublin Bus airport service uses the port tunnel so that should run smoothly also. Dublin airport is much more convenient to the city than many other cities and takes about 30 minutes to reach O' Connell St. My point; there is no problem getting into the city centre using existing methods so there is no need for a metro.

With falling passenger numbers the trains will run half empty and so the taxpayer will have to subsidise it. This project is based on out of date statistics just like terminal two. Planners were wrong about demand for housing and they are wrong about this also. The Government seem to ignore common sense and trust every word from their bought-in advisers who are eager to secure more state contracts.

Only premium shuttle services use the port tunnel. The 2 Dublin bus public transport routes that service the airport (16a and 41) take considerably longer than 30 minutes from the city centre and do not use the port tunnel.

I dont think that 2 journeys on the aircoach this year allows you to dismiss the whole project and all the benefits it would bring to areas along the entire route.

Pete_Cavan

waxon-waxoff wrote: »

I have used Dublin airport twice this year, taking the Aircoach both times. Two of these bus journeys were at peak times but there was no major delay. Dublin Bus airport service uses the port tunnel so that should run smoothly also. Dublin airport is much more convenient to the city than many other cities and takes about 30 minutes to reach O' Connell St. My point; there is no problem getting into the city centre using existing methods so there is no need for a metro.

With falling passenger numbers the trains will run half empty and so the taxpayer will have to subsidise it. This project is based on out of date statistics just like terminal two. Planners were wrong about demand for housing and they are wrong about this also. The Government seem to ignore common sense and trust every word from their bought-in advisers who are eager to secure more state contracts.

You are forgetting that the airport and city centre are not the only stops on the metro route. There are also hospitals, universities, shopping destinations, residential communities, potential development areas, interchanges with other rail lines, as well as the airport and city centre.

donvito99

I for one cannot wait until its operational.

I'd say alot of opponents to the project at the moment will be somewhat pleased when this is built and our economy is back on its feet.

Lets use Metro North and DU as a motivation. I'm sick and tired of moaning and groaning and little being done. I'm not going to sit on my laurels anymore.

It's time we do something that won't be decided on whether we can afford it now but on its benefits 100 years in the future.

zootroid

donvito99 wrote: »

I for one cannot wait until its operational.

I'd say alot of opponents to the project at the moment will be somewhat pleased when this is built and our economy is back on its feet.

Lets use Metro North and DU as a motivation. I'm sick and tired of moaning and groaning and little being done. I'm not going to sit on my laurels anymore.

It's time we do something that won't be decided on whether we can afford it now but on its benefits 100 years in the future.

+1

I live in Ranelagh, so won't be using either, but can see both would be of huge benefit to Dublin.

Dublin is a nightmare to get around, the more public transport infrastructure we have the better.

runway16

donvito99 wrote: »

I for one cannot wait until its operational.

I'd say alot of opponents to the project at the moment will be somewhat pleased when this is built and our economy is back on its feet.

Lets use Metro North and DU as a motivation. I'm sick and tired of moaning and groaning and little being done. I'm not going to sit on my laurels anymore.

It's time we do something that won't be decided on whether we can afford it now but on its benefits 100 years in the future.

Wellk said buddy. Sadly though, I think we can now kiss goodbye to the project. Although planning permission has been granted, govt are now longfingering the project til end 2011 for a decision. Why? Because they know they wont be there, and are leaving it to someone else to kill the project.

Sometimes I hate this ****ing country and its population of (many) idiots, which is governed by cretins. Sorry for the rant.....

Brian CivilEng

zootroid wrote: »

+1

I live in Ranelagh, so won't be using either, but can see both would be of huge benefit to Dublin.

Dublin is a nightmare to get around, the more public transport infrastructure we have the better.

Why wont you be using either by living in Ranelagh? If you need to go to the airport, a quick jaunt on the Luas the Stephen's Green then you have the Metro to the rest of the way. Want to go to Cork, Luas to the Green, DART to Heuston and off you go. This is the point of a network, you don't have to live on the new line being constructed to benefit.

Personally I think that the DART Underground will be the most useful as I live in Raheny an it would mean one train would bring me the whole way to the Bull and Castle pub.

senordingdong

abitofacomedian wrote: »

Why wont you be using either by living in Ranelagh? If you need to go to the airport, a quick jaunt on the Luas the Stephen's Green then you have the Metro to the rest of the way. Want to go to Cork, Luas to the Green, DART to Heuston and off you go. This is the point of a network, you don't have to live on the new line being constructed to benefit.

Personally I think that the DART Underground will be the most useful as I live in Raheny an it would mean one train would bring me the whole way to the Bull and Castle pub.

In fairness though, how long would that take you?

strathspey

The Scots are building a tram from Edinburgh Airport to the city centre. Why Can't the Luas be extended out to the airport instead. It would save a fortune.

Telchak

strathspey wrote: »

The Scots are building a tram from Edinburgh Airport to the city centre. Why Can't the Luas be extended out to the airport instead. It would save a fortune.

The general argument against that is that any on street route through the north city would be too slow and winding to attract passengers.

monument

strathspey wrote: »

The Scots are building a tram from Edinburgh Airport to the city centre. Why Can't the Luas be extended out to the airport instead. It would save a fortune.

It could be done, but the displacement of traffic and the small bit of distruction needed would cause uproar which would make the current media outcry against Metro North look like a tear drop falling into the Irish Sea.

For all those who say bus lanes are already there -- they are disjointed as hell, with large sections missing in the most congested areas.

Related to this, I'm in the process of mapping the current bus lanes on the route -- showing where they are, where sections large and small are missing and showing were there's problems (not wide enough for bus to pass a cyclists so bus kept at cyclist's speed what every that is etc). Will post in a new thread when I get around it finishing it.

runway16

strathspey wrote: »

The Scots are building a tram from Edinburgh Airport to the city centre. Why Can't the Luas be extended out to the airport instead. It would save a fortune.

How many times does this need to be repeated??

Metro North isnt just an airport rail link. The airport is only one stop out of 17.

Transportuser09

All though it could be done the existing trams used on the Luas probably wouldn't be that suitable considering the lack of luggage space, etc... Presumably the metro rolling stock would be slightly larger than the Luas stock and have this taken into account during the design process. However, as the Scots have shown a tram can still be used, but bigger rolling stock seems more suited.

runway16

Transportuser09 wrote: »

All though it could be done the existing trams used on the Luas probably wouldn't be that suitable considering the lack of luggage space, etc... Presumably the metro rolling stock would be slightly larger than the Luas stock and have this taken into account during the design process. However, as the Scots have shown a tram can still be used, but bigger rolling stock seems more suited.

Its also been done with Trams in Porto and Newcastle. Quite honestly I couldnt give a damn how its done, once it is done and is fast enough. The later point probably rules out an on-street solution though.

But the point still stands - MN isnt an airport rail link. Its a commuter corridor with the airport on its route.

Telchak

runway16 wrote: »

Its also been done with Trams in Porto...

Porto is closer to the Metro North than Luas isn't it? In fact, the Porto Metro has been used in many pictures for Metro North that are intended to show what it will look like (:

runway16

Telchak wrote: »

Porto is closer to the Metro North than Luas isn't it? In fact, the Porto Metro has been used in many pictures for Metro North that are intended to show what it will look like (:

In that case, I stand corrected. I've not been to Porto myself, and had always heard Porto's system referred to as a tram.

Brian CivilEng

senordingdong wrote: »

In fairness though, how long would that take you?

You are right, probably still too long, forget the infrastructure they should just move the Bull and Castle to Raheny for my benefit

I believe that if both Metro North and the DART Underground are built it will lead to a whole change on how people view journeys in the city. The usual way of thinking is that you use public transport as a teen/student, it takes too long / is unreliable and you yearn for your first car. Once you have the car you completely forget about the pt. If the public transport is reliable people will not rush into buying a car. There's nothing wrong with having or owning a car, it's being forced to use I that I have a problem with. I try to use the DART or bus as much as possible, I hate when driving is the only option. Means I cant pop into the Bull and Castle.

Transportuser09

abitofacomedian wrote: »

I believe that if both Metro North and the DART Underground are built it will lead to a whole change on how people view journeys in the city. The usual way of thinking is that you use public transport as a teen/student, it takes too long / is unreliable and you yearn for your first car. Once you have the car you completely forget about the pt. If the public transport is reliable people will not rush into buying a car.

Good point. Obviously it will only work in the areas served by the routes but it's a good start. I maintain we will always need bus routes, but if MN helps improve commuter flows from the north end of the city then I'm all for it.

markpb

Transportuser09 wrote: »

Good point. Obviously it will only work in the areas served by the routes but it's a good start.

If both projects were built, an awful lot of Dublin would be served by rail. Terenure, etc are the big remaining gap. There should be no reason for DB to continue running arterial bus routes anywhere near the train lines so they could be redeployed to serve under-served areas and as feeder buses.

Transportuser09

markpb wrote: »

If both projects were built, an awful lot of Dublin would be served by rail. Terenure, etc are the big remaining gap. There should be no reason for DB to continue running arterial bus routes anywhere near the train lines so they could be redeployed to serve under-served areas and as feeder buses.

Indeed there should be no need to run bus routes serving the same route as the new rail lines. However, I would still advocate having them run to/from areas a good distance between rail lines and the city centre. People prefer to have a direct route in to work rather than have to get a bus to one location and change to a train to continue their journey. However I completely agree it would be a waste to have a bus serving all the metro locations into the city centre. As you said the resources used to run such a route would be better deployed elsewhere.

senordingdong

abitofacomedian wrote: »

You are right, probably still too long, forget the infrastructure they should just move the Bull and Castle to Raheny for my benefit

I believe that if both Metro North and the DART Underground are built it will lead to a whole change on how people view journeys in the city. The usual way of thinking is that you use public transport as a teen/student, it takes too long / is unreliable and you yearn for your first car. Once you have the car you completely forget about the pt. If the public transport is reliable people will not rush into buying a car. There's nothing wrong with having or owning a car, it's being forced to use I that I have a problem with. I try to use the DART or bus as much as possible, I hate when driving is the only option. Means I cant pop into the Bull and Castle.

Exactly.
I had to get from Raheny to Broombridge one day and the route was to get the Dart to Connoly and change over to the Loongford train to get to Broombridge.
I was waiting 15 minutes on the Dart, then it took about 20mins to get to Connoly (going at a snails pace and then taking an overly long time changing drivers at Clontarf).
Then I had to wait about 30mins for the Longford train (which granted, was quite quick once it arrived)
So the whole thing took one & a half/two hours, which is far too long imo.

My point here is that we already have a rail network, and I.E. and the Dept. of Transport will swear blind that it's great, does what it says on the tin and is as good as any other major cities rail network.

I have a feeling that our new rail network will be just the same, except underground.

Also, to ad to your point about the cars...since cars, motor tax, insurance & petrol are so damned expensive in this country, I think it's silly that the govt. tries to tell people to leave their cars at home and use a sub-standard PT system. After paying so much for a car and its running costs, I would trying to get the most out of it.

schemingbohemia

senordingdong wrote: »

Exactly.
I had to get from Raheny to Broombridge one day and the route was to get the Dart to Connoly and change over to the Loongford train to get to Broombridge.
I was waiting 15 minutes on the Dart, then it took about 20mins to get to Connoly (going at a snails pace and then taking an overly long time changing drivers at Clontarf).
Then I had to wait about 30mins for the Longford train (which granted, was quite quick once it arrived)
So the whole thing took one & a half/two hours, which is far too long imo.

Did you check the timetable before you left your home?

From the Irish Rail website it would seem you were very unlucky as most journeys during the day should take between 30 and 50 minutes for this trip.

whydoibother?

We can't afford it at the moment. When we're teetering so close to the edge and talking about 6bn cuts this year, to propose spending 2bn on something we don't need urgently (and I know people will argue different defns. of need) is silly. Lets pump that money into reducing the deficit ideally, or at least stimulating growth through some kind of sensible initiative and then a few years down the line when things are back on track, by all means... I love trains.

markpb

whydoibother? wrote: »

We can't afford it at the moment. When we're teetering so close to the edge and talking about 6bn cuts this year, to propose spending 2bn on something we don't need urgently (and I know people will argue different defns. of need) is silly.

We won't be paying the full construction price of the Metro right now. We won't even be paying it next year or in 2012. We pay a relatively small amount for some preparation work and then the winning consortia will pay the construction price.

In 5-7 years when it's ready for operation, we start paying them back but over 25 years so we'll pay a relatively small amount each year.

Cancelling this metro will save us about 160m but not the 5bn or 2bn that most people believe. It won't have any effect on our current terrible situation.

senordingdong

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Did you check the timetable before you left your home?

From the Irish Rail website it would seem you were very unlucky as most journeys during the day should take between 30 and 50 minutes for this trip.

Sure did, but their timetables are never accurate.

L1011

whydoibother? wrote: »

We can't afford it at the moment.

We won't be paying for it 'at the moment' either.

LeinsterDub

whydoibother? wrote: »

Lets pump that money into reducing the deficit ideally, or at least stimulating growth through some kind of sensible initiative and then a few years down the line when things are back on track, by all means... I love trains.

How about a project with a cost benefit of 2:1 , will create 4,000 construction jobs and thousand of other construction jobs indirectly. Would that qualify as stimulating growth?

dynamick

They aren't going to cancel the project in the budget when the saving would be just 75m for 2011 out of a planned 5,500m capital budget. Even if they lop another 1bn off the capital budget there's hardly anything to be saved by killing the project.

senordingdong

Well if Cowen thinks it's a good idea then it must be a disaster waiting to happen.

runway16

senordingdong wrote: »

Well if Cowen thinks it's a good idea then it must be a disaster waiting to happen.

Well, clearly thats exactly the sort of rationale and logical thinking we should be applying to developing our transport system..:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

zootroid

senordingdong wrote: »

Well if Cowen thinks it's a good idea then it must be a disaster waiting to happen.

Brilliant reasoning :rolleyes:

monument

Beyond Cowen and the comments from Ruairí Quinn*, there's other signs that Metro North is far from off the agenda...

Nov 1:

Also at the conference, Minister for Transport Noel Dempsey said Dublin’s Metro North project remains in the Government’s capital programme. “I am confident that it is in the programme. I have to be careful, it is a budgetary matter at the end of the day.” - Irish Times

Nov 13

“There is an absolute necessity for a project like Metro North. I don’t see how a construction job like Metro North with 4,000 jobs directly and 3,000 indirectly are any different to ones that will be provided by roads,” [said Dempsey] -- Irish Times and Irish Indo

* yes, Quinn is in opposition, but it's harder to proceed without support from outside the government

lods

Enclosed please find 2 files to help you realise the disaster cost to the nation if Metro North goes ahead .Basically the Fianna Fail Government never had the money to build MetroNorth railproject.The whole project is dependent on Government backed property speculation using compulsory purchase orders to buy and sell property to developers.This is evident in the report comissioned by the RPA see the confidential file Dublin_Metro_Project_OBC_Nov_2002_Part_II_Appendices.pdf (application/pdf) 6,532K.Notice all the blanked out figures and numbers again evidence of the manipulation and hiding of important financial information by this Fianna fail government who have ruined the nation's finances.This report shows the Metro North project for what it is, a property speculative developer driven project involving Fianna Fail, ,developers , local authorities, and banks all acting out the property bubble boom that has distroyed this Nation's future.
The recent Cherrywood"Ghost line" rail luas line project ( with not one parking site for users) is owed hundreds of millions of Euros by bankrupt and Namaized developers.
Enclosed also is the Metro North Book of references,see file MetroNorth_Books of Reference.zip (application/zip) 3,415K that gives all the property that has to be CPO'd in the Metro North project even before a sod is turned.This Government cannot afford Metro North, it cannot afford the Dart UnderGround rail line from Heuston to the Point, this Government has broken the Country by their actions.The Government will not have money to pay themselves next year, that is how bad the situation is.
Right now,The Goverment cannot even borrow money , please consider and act and do the right thing for once ....... cancel and finish and end Metro North and the CIE dart Underground project, so that Ireland will save at least 10 billion euros,
yours sincerely

Damian O'Regan
http://cid-8ad9de768f0cbeb5.office.live.com/browse.aspx/metro%20north

Zebra3

The recent Cherrywood"Ghost line" rail luas line project ( with not one parking site for users) is owed hundreds of millions of Euros by bankrupt and Namaized developers.

Didn't the extension cost about €300M with half coming from developer levies and therefore it is impossible that there are "hundreds of millions of euros" owed?

it cannot afford the Dart UnderGround rail line from Heuston to the Point,

To the Point? Really? :rolleyes:

Damian O'Regan

Get your facts right you moron. :mad:

DWCommuter

Zebra3 wrote: »

Didn't the extension cost about €300M with half coming from developer levies and therefore it is impossible that there are "hundreds of millions of euros" owed?

Thats not necessarily true either. Perhaps a question about it should be asked in Dail Eireann or an FOI request. It would indeed be interesting to know if the developer money was ever paid, Citywest extension included.

donvito99

lods wrote: »

Enclosed please find 2 files to help you realise the disaster cost to the nation if Metro North goes ahead .Basically the Fianna Fail Government never had the money to build MetroNorth railproject.The whole project is dependent on Government backed property speculation using compulsory purchase orders to buy and sell property to developers.This is evident in the report comissioned by the RPA see the confidential file Dublin_Metro_Project_OBC_Nov_2002_Part_II_Appendices.pdf (application/pdf) 6,532K.Notice all the blanked out figures and numbers again evidence of the manipulation and hiding of important financial information by this Fianna fail government who have ruined the nation's finances.This report shows the Metro North project for what it is, a property speculative developer driven project involving Fianna Fail, ,developers , local authorities, and banks all acting out the property bubble boom that has distroyed this Nation's future.
The recent Cherrywood"Ghost line" rail luas line project ( with not one parking site for users) is owed hundreds of millions of Euros by bankrupt and Namaized developers.
Enclosed also is the Metro North Book of references,see file MetroNorth_Books of Reference.zip (application/zip) 3,415K that gives all the property that has to be CPO'd in the Metro North project even before a sod is turned.This Government cannot afford Metro North, it cannot afford the Dart UnderGround rail line from Heuston to the Point, this Government has broken the Country by their actions.The Government will not have money to pay themselves next year, that is how bad the situation is.
Right now,The Goverment cannot even borrow money , please consider and act and do the right thing for once ....... cancel and finish and end Metro North and the CIE dart Underground project, so that Ireland will save at least 10 billion euros,
yours sincerely

Damian O'Regan
http://cid-8ad9de768f0cbeb5.office.live.com/browse.aspx/metro%20north

I refuse to read this on the grounds that it is impossible to read.

Please give a damn about your posts, 'cause I certainly won't.

lods

donvito99 wrote: »

I refuse to read this on the grounds that it is impossible to read.

Please give a damn about your posts, 'cause I certainly won't.

I posted it , the way it was written ,take it up with the author:rolleyes:
. As you can see by the title , it's an e mail going around .

dynamick

lods wrote: »

...The recent Cherrywood"Ghost line" rail luas line project ( with not one parking site for users) is owed hundreds of millions of Euros by bankrupt and Namaized developers......Damian O'Regan

Funny that the same Damian took the trouble to write to the Irish Times in August to tell them that

Damo wrote:

The recent extension to the Luas light rail line at Cherrywood (Home News, May 6th) is very good value for money

DWCommuter doubts the cost of the Cherrywood extension...

DWCommuter wrote: »

Thats not necessarily true either. Perhaps a question about it should be asked in Dail Eireann or an FOI request. It would indeed be interesting to know if the developer money was ever paid, Citywest extension included.

The government say it came in at 293m and that the budget was 324m. Link

Developer contributions were set at about 100K per acre for residential land and more than twice that for commercial land. The levies can be collected for the next 18 years for any development that takes place in a 1300 acre region of undeveloped land around the luas line from 2003 onwards.

To get back on topic, similar schemes have been collecting money from developers along the proposed route of metro north since last year and will continue to so do until 2039. They aim is to recoup 800m in development levies during that time.

DWCommuter

dynamick wrote: »

Funny that the same Damian took the trouble to write to the Irish Times in August to tell them that

DWCommuter doubts the cost of the Cherrywood extension...
The government say it came in at 293m and that the budget was 324m. Link

Developer contributions were set at about 100K per acre for residential land and more than twice that for commercial land. The levies can be collected for the next 18 years for any development that takes place in a 1300 acre region of undeveloped land around the luas line from 2003 onwards.

To get back on topic, similar schemes have been collecting money from developers along the proposed route of metro north since last year and will continue to so do until 2039. They aim is to recoup 800m in development levies during that time.

I didn't doubt the cost of it. I merely pointed out that it would be interesting to know how much in levies was actually collected.

dynamick

Fair enough.

38.6m invoiced and 22.4m collected. 18 years of scheme to run and 127m to collect Some of the 16m owing will probably be bad debts. The levy rate inflates by 5% per year

Year Amount Invoiced* Amount Received
2003      €49,500.00     €57,405.00
2004   €1,003,799.65    €334,176.53
2005  €12,844,561.11  €1,370,178.61
2006  €12,813,573.57 €10,271,275.90
2007   €3,462,383.12  €4,182,373.72
2008   €4,618,876.11  €3,036,467.02
2009   €2,604,429.74  €2,823,252.06
2010   €1,157,309.62    €371,114.78
[B]Total €38,554,432.92 €22,446,243.62[/B]

http://www.dlrcoco.ie/Meetings/2010/CountyCouncil/Oct10.htm