School homework has 'no real benefit'

Nevyn

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1008/education.html

School homework has 'no real benefit'
Friday, 8 October 2010 15:58

There is little evidence to suggest that school homework in its current form has any real benefit, according to a primary school principals' group.

In a submission paper to the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Curriculum Reform, The Irish Primary Principals Network says the role of homework in the education system 'requires serious research and analysis.'

IPPN says that principals and teachers have serious concerns about the impact of homework.

The Network has highlighted nine areas of concern in its submission paper to the committee.

It says 'effective teaching in the classroom, which differentiates both children's learning styles and learning abilities far outweighs any value of homework.'

'Homework can often be the source of a huge amount of stress between parents and children,' says IPPN Director Sean Cottrell.

Pointing to the fact that quality time can be scarce among families on weekday evenings, Mr Cottrell said it this time can often be spoiled by homework.

The majority of stress and strife around school in this house over the last 6 years has been homework. Not that it's too hard but the resistance to doing it has lead to rows and tears. I do think that it can be good in terms of letting parents know what the kids are doing and how they are doing but there has to be a better way.

LittleBook

effective teaching in the classroom, which differentiates both children's learning styles and learning abilities far outweighs any value of homework

I always suspected homework was more about covering work they haven't the time/will to deal with during the school day, rather than reinforcing/revising what's already been learned.

I wonder what is the actual point of homework?

metrovelvet

Thaedydal wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1008/education.html



The majority of stress and strife around school in this house over the last 6 years has been homework. Not that it's too hard but the resistance to doing it has lead to rows and tears. I do think that it can be good in terms of letting parents know what the kids are doing and how they are doing but there has to be a better way.

Hmnn. I dont know. I think homework reinforced for me a lot of what I learned during the day. Repetition and all that.

Saying that... I can see how resistence is a big problem. There is a solution but I know it would never be applied here.

In my school if you didnt do it you stayed after school and did it. Also, not doing your homework affected your over all mark, which would affect your admittance into third level or even graduating or WORSE still, SUMMER SCHOOL!

If I were in Ireland I wouldnt be motivated to do homework either.

Nevyn

I have found it undermined my kids confidence rather then reinforcing learning.

Ayla

I'm thinking back to when I had math homework (in the States). This was the only time I actually had to work the problems out by myself, so it showed me how much (or - normally - how little) of the concepts I had grasped during class that day.

Hate it, yes, of course I did. But I think it's essential in the traditional school model.

This is part of the reason why my hubby & I will be homeschooling ours.

Chuchoter

Homework does nothing but get in the way, especially at second level. I mean I'm amazing at French, but at JC I was constantly getting ridiculously easy verb drills that took forever to write out but meant I couldn't go study maths (which I was terrible at)

Nevyn

I think assignments are necessary at second level but the majority of exercises set for primary school aren't needed. I do think that there should be homework club/study hall in schools at the end of the school day.

metrovelvet

I would say the entirety of the first four years of my primary education were a complete waste of time. Except for penmanship. That was the only thing I learned in school. I learned how to read and basic maths before I started school. I was bored stiff and played hookie at 5. Drove my mother demented.

Nevyn

metrovelvet wrote: »

I would say the entirety of the first four years of my primary education were a complete waste of time. Except for penmanship. That was the only thing I learned in school. I learned how to read and basic maths before I started school. I was bored stiff and played hookie at 5. Drove my mother demented.

I disagree.
When my eldest started primary at the new parents meeting the principal read out a piece on what children learn in the first few years.

They learn to listen,
they learn to share,
they learn to look out for each other,
they learn to wait their turn,
they get a chance to use their manners
They learn to take off their own coat,
they learn to ask permission
they learn that they can not fight or hit
they learn to mind their bags
they learn to sit and complete tasks
they learn to ask questions

There are so many 'lessons' which are not on the circulum which are absorbed in those first two years.

destinybabe

I reckon the school day uses up enough time in a childs life especially in primary school, they deserve to have a good quality of life to be enabled to relax, play and be kids when they get home at the end of their day.:)

astra2000

I believe a moderate amount of homework does help reinforce what has been done in school that day. It also has the benefit of alerting parents to areas where the child may have difficulties. When a child is in a large class room it can be harder for the teacher to see the extent of a problem, a parent will notice immediately if there is a problem if they are helping their child with homework each evening.
I do think there should be a time limit however, some kids could finish their homework in 20 min and the same hw could take a different child twice the time.

caseyann

destinybabe wrote: »

I reckon the school day uses up enough time in a childs life especially in primary school, they deserve to have a good quality of life to be enabled to relax, play and be kids when they get home at the end of their day.:)

I half agree with this,its a dilemma as those who do not do well in school need the extra time on work,and if they dont feel they have to have it in for next day they may not bother trying at all.Then again we go through life from kids working on homework and then on to college more homework and then on to work and not hanging around playing dumb games and having a laugh as an innocent.
There is some places that this actually is done,i cant remember where now,but i remember a study done and the kids showed higher enthusiasm for school and more positive.
I do agree with the parents child stress for homework,especially subjects parents havent studied as kids themselves.
I think more essays should be given and projects.
There does not seem to be enough of that anymore.

metrovelvet

caseyann wrote: »

I half agree with this,its a dilemma as those who do not do well in school need the extra time on work,and if they dont feel they have to have it in for next day they may not bother trying at all.Then again we go through life from kids working on homework and then on to college more homework and then on to work and not hanging around playing dumb games and having a laugh as an innocent.
There is some places that this actually is done,i cant remember where now,but i remember a study done and the kids showed higher enthusiasm for school and more positive.
I do agree with the parents child stress for homework,especially subjects parents havent studied as kids themselves.
I think more essays should be given and projects.
There does not seem to be enough of that anymore.

Maybe its the content of the homework that is not of any benefit?

We used to get things like practise your penmanship, and read and memorise your multiplication tables but we would also get stupid take home projects like book reports and build the Egyptian pyramids and the Great Wall of China [which are costly and time consuming.]

metrovelvet

Thaedydal wrote: »

I disagree.
When my eldest started primary at the new parents meeting the principal read out a piece on what children learn in the first few years.

They learn to listen,
they learn to share,
they learn to look out for each other,
they learn to wait their turn,
they get a chance to use their manners
They learn to take off their own coat,
they learn to ask permission
they learn that they can not fight or hit
they learn to mind their bags
they learn to sit and complete tasks
they learn to ask questions

There are so many 'lessons' which are not on the circulum which are absorbed in those first two years.

My three year old can do most of those things.

This is not to say primary school essentially has to be a waste. But I think they waste a lot of time. Their minds are like sponges, that is the time to pack in the learning. The system doesnt take advantage of it.

destinybabe

My daughter has just started junior infants this year she's had relatively easy pieces of homework so far such as bring in an item which begin with certain letters,create a "me" box all about herself but her real homework reading and writing starts next week to be honest I'm dreading it.I've always believed in the power of child centred play and letting her lead her own learning she really has learned so much and it's all fun to her instead of a chore...which homework becomes

destinybabe

Thaedydal wrote: »

I disagree.
When my eldest started primary at the new parents meeting the principal read out a piece on what children learn in the first few years.

They learn to listen,
they learn to share,
they learn to look out for each other,
they learn to wait their turn,
they get a chance to use their manners
They learn to take off their own coat,
they learn to ask permission
they learn that they can not fight or hit
they learn to mind their bags
they learn to sit and complete tasks
they learn to ask questions

There are so many 'lessons' which are not on the circulum which are absorbed in those first two years.

This is all really important to a childs social & moral development and although my daughter has already mastered all these, the social aspect of mixing with other kids etc is one of the main reasons I decided not to homeschool-I do think once their day has been spent at school though that their home time should be their own because family time and being allowed be a kid (rather than growing up so fast) should be of vital importance.

Woddle

My eldest is in 1st class and has only this year started to get homework, she loves it and I love it. I get to sit down with her for 30 minutes and bond. I get a real understanding of her progress, I know she has a good maths brain but I also know she needs to spend more time on spellings. Granted it's early days and maybe she is still in the honeymoon period.
Also with most kids playing more and more on games consoles surely homework is a better option.

belongtojazz

OK my daughter is a lot older than those mentioned earlier (she's 13 and in 3rd year) but I have had to have a meeting with her school already about the amount of Homework she's had. She was doing on average 4 to 5 hours EVERY single night.

We have just moved back from the UK where the norm for her was about an hour. Now I understand that the system here overall is better but the poor girl wasn't having the chance to have a life. She does a lot of dancing which is the real love of her life and she was worrying about everything.

I now have an agreement with the school that she will do 20 minutes per subject up to 6 subjects per night. Since then she has been much happier, concentrating better and a much less stressed.

So my recommendation is if you think what they are doing is too much speak to the school, in my experience they've been brilliant and we couldn't ask for better support

Truley

From my own experience, (no kids but currently childminding) homework causes far more stress than it is worth. Alot of it seems to be an excuse to cover work that hasn't been done or has only been vaugely covered in class. It also causes alot of undue stress for children who don't have attentive parents who can sit with them and help, (Ok I know that's not the schools fault but still.) 'My' kid is eight and I find that having been in school for six hours she is usually exhausted by the time she gets home and it's time to do homework, I think it's too much.

Waldorf schools don't start proper homework until 5th or even 6th class. Until then pupils might get something to read or a few spellings but that's all. Academically children from these schools usually fare very well.

planetX

Woddle wrote: »

My eldest is in 1st class and has only this year started to get homework, she loves it and I love it. I get to sit down with her for 30 minutes and bond. I get a real understanding of her progress, I know she has a good maths brain but I also know she needs to spend more time on spellings. Granted it's early days and maybe she is still in the honeymoon period.
Also with most kids playing more and more on games consoles surely homework is a better option.

me too. Mine's in 3rd class, and I love doing homework with him. Granted he finds his homework no problem and has it done in 15 min max. The only problem we have is with the Irish homework - because it's a workbook there is nothing for him (and me) to use as a reference, which is ridiculous... I have to google words to find what they mean. I wish they'd use textbooks and copies and get rid of workbooks. I'd like to see more projects and less repetition - it's very boring for some kids.

caseyann

planetX wrote: »

me too. Mine's in 3rd class, and I love doing homework with him. Granted he finds his homework no problem and has it done in 15 min max. The only problem we have is with the Irish homework - because it's a workbook there is nothing for him (and me) to use as a reference, which is ridiculous... I have to google words to find what they mean. I wish they'd use textbooks and copies and get rid of workbooks. I'd like to see more projects and less repetition - it's very boring for some kids.

Some of the greatest books ever you should try locate for this exact problem also the new scrabble in Irish
There is a book which i am pretty sure you can still get.I can not remember the name of it right now.I will find it and post it for you.I am sure you had in school aswell.
spraoi nollaig,i cant find a picture but pretty sure thats it and still can get them.Turns Irish into an activity and fun for kids

Here is some more http://www.litriocht.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=4616

Deliverance

Thaedydal wrote: »

I have found it undermined my kids confidence rather then reinforcing learning.

I agree with this. A lot of homework is unesseccary in the early stages. It can undermine confidence in some individuals due to it's 'have to do it' nature.

A redesign of the system would do no harm. Learning should be about fun and not pressure. I teach my own child the fun stuff, I teach her about what she can achieve through fun stuff.

At the end of the day learning is actually fun. It is a natural process. If pressure is applied then the smart kids will avoid it like the plague.

#15

metrovelvet wrote: »

My three year old can do most of those things.

Most parents say this.

metrovelvet

#15 wrote: »

Most parents say this.

They are probably right. Pedagogy needs to be looked at again.

Nevyn

#15 wrote: »

Most parents say this.

Yup and there is a big difference between a 4 year old doing it with a parent personally supervising them and them doing it when in a class room of 25 to 30 with only the Teacher.

Nevyn

metrovelvet wrote: »

They are probably right. Pedagogy needs to be looked at again.

Pedagogy: The strategies of instruction, or a style of instruction used by teachers.


Well if we look around at how much the world has changed and then look at school, 100 years ago we had kids sitting in rows with the teacher at the top of the class, and it's the same to day.

There was a wonderful TEDtalk about child driven learning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk60sYrU2RU

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-10663353

Using computers to teach children with no teachers
By Jonathan Fildes Technology reporter, BBC News, Oxford

A 10-year experiment that started with Indian slum children being given access to computers has produced a new concept for education, a conference has heard.

Professor Sugata Mitra first introduced children in a Delhi slum to computers in 1999.

He has watched the children teach themselves - and others - how to use the machines and gather information.

Follow up experiments suggest children around the world can learn complex tasks quickly with little supervision.

"I think we have stumbled across a self-organising system with learning as an emergent behaviour," he told the TED Global (Technology, Entertainment and Design) conference.
Learning curve

Professor Mitra's work began when he was working for a software company and decided to embed a computer in the wall of his office in Delhi that was facing a slum.

"The children barely went to school, they didn't know any English, they had never seen a computer before and they didn't know what the internet was."

To his surprise, the children quickly figured out how to use the computers and access the internet.

"I repeated the experiment across India and noticed that children will learn to do what they want to learn to do."
Hole-in-the-wall computer station, HiWel The experiment has been repeated in many more places with very similar results

He saw children teaching each other how to use the computer and picking up new skills.

One group in Rajasthan, he said, learnt how to record and play music on the computer within four hours of it arriving in their village.

"At the end of it we concluded that groups of children can learn to use computers on their own irrespective of who or where they are," he said.

His experiments then become more ambitious and more global.

In Cambodia, for example, he left a simple maths game for children to play with.

"No child would play with it inside the classroom. If you leave it on the pavement and all the adults go away then they will show off to one another about what they can do," said Prof Mitra, who now works at Newcastle University in the UK.

He has continued his work in India.
Stress test

"I wanted to test the limits of this system," he said. "I set myself an impossible target: can Tamil speaking 12-year-olds in south India teach themselves biotechnology in English on their own?"

The researcher gathered 26 children and gave them computers preloaded with information in English.

"I told them: 'there is some very difficult stuff on this computer, I won't be surprised if you don't understand anything'."

Two months later, he returned.
Children with OLPC laptops, AFP/Getty Many initiatives aim to put computers in the hands of children

Initially the children said they had not learnt anything, despite the fact that they used the computers everyday.

"Then a 12-year-old girl raised her hand and said 'apart from the fact that improper replication of the DNA contributes to genetic disease - we've understood nothing else'."

Further experiment showed that having a person - known as "the granny figure" - stand behind the children and encourage them raised standards even higher.

Returning to the UK, he fine-tuned his method even further.

He gave groups of four children a computer each and set them a series of GCSE questions.

The groups were allowed to exchange information and swap members.

"The best group solved everything in 20 minutes, the worst in 45 minutes."

To prove that the children were learning, and not just skimming information off the web, he returned two months later and set the same questions. Crucially, this time the children had to answer them on their own with no computer aids.

"The average score when I did it with computers was 76%. When I did it without computers, the average score was 76% - they had near photographic recall."

Professor Mitra has now formalised the lessons from his experiments and has come up with a new concept for schools called SOLE (Self Organised Learning Environments).

These spaces consist of a computer with a bench big enough to let four children sit around the screen.

"It doesn't work if you give them each a computer individually," he said.

For his experiments he has also created a "granny cloud" - 200 volunteer grandmothers who can be called upon to video chat with the kids and provide encouragement.

He has tested the spaces in the UK and Italy, with similar results, and now believes it should be tested more widely.

"We could change everything," he said.

cbyrd

i always knew my homework was a waste of time:D
In my daughters school the homework time sheet is like this
junior senior infants 10 -15 mins
1st 2nd 15-20 mins
3rd and 4th 20 - 30 mins
5th and 6th 30 -45 mins
If they don't finish they're homework in this time they leave the rest. We have a space at the bottom of the homework sheet to sign and time and there are no questions asked. The school wants quality homework not quantity, this was make clear to us on day one.

Just on the subject of computers, i just found out that my eldest, who will be starting secondary next year, will be getting a laptop and not books in first year! yay!! €100 at the start of each year and it will be hers to own after 3rd year. we got to have a go on it at the open night fully interactive with the teacher, she can't wait to get there!!

Nevyn

Unfortunatly if the homework is not completed in my kids primary school then they loose a merit, which goes towards the end of term certs and medals.

iguana

metrovelvet wrote: »

Maybe its the content of the homework that is not of any benefit?

We used to get things like practise your penmanship, and read and memorise your multiplication tables but we would also get stupid take home projects like book reports and build the Egyptian pyramids and the Great Wall of China [which are costly and time consuming.]

I actually think that encouraging children to do sort of "free-form" projects has more benefit than having them endlessly fill out workbooks and answer set questions. I used to gobble up history and science books as a child. My favourite subjects were all historical periods and astronomy. I was just starting to see how interlinked seemingly diverse subjects were at the point when the homework started being piled on and I found teachers just weren't interested in going in any way off-curriculum. (Around 4th class.)

It's such a missed opportunity that children aren't shown how different subjects interact an allowed to truly explore that. Looking back we were doing geometry in maths at the same time as we were doing medieval and renaissance architecture. While our history teachers were telling us to marvel at the amazing ability of cathedral builders our math teachers were teaching us math without showing us what use that math is put to in the real world. Why we couldn't be shown how geometry was put to use in building I'll never know? It would have made our education much richer and we could have been given projects like "designing" a building on paper in a gothic style using math to show how the structure would be supported and art, history and religion to show the artistic look.

metrovelvet

iguana wrote: »

I actually think that encouraging children to do sort of "free-form" projects has more benefit than having them endlessly fill out workbooks and answer set questions. I used to gobble up history and science books as a child. My favourite subjects were all historical periods and astronomy. I was just starting to see how interlinked seemingly diverse subjects were at the point when the homework started being piled on and I found teachers just weren't interested in going in any way off-curriculum. (Around 4th class.)

It's such a missed opportunity that children aren't shown how different subjects interact an allowed to truly explore that. Looking back we were doing geometry in maths at the same time as we were doing medieval and renaissance architecture. While our history teachers were telling us to marvel at the amazing ability of cathedral builders our math teachers were teaching us math without showing us what use that math is put to in the real world. Why we couldn't be shown how geometry was put to use in building I'll never know? It would have made our education much richer and we could have been given projects like "designing" a building on paper in a gothic style using math to show how the structure would be supported and art, history and religion to show the artistic look.

I think this is an absolutely fantastic idea - to try to integrate the subjects. So that we can see art, science, math and history working all together.

Why divorce math from art and building? No reason for it. I was very good at math but could not see any purpose behind it. It was only years later as an adult that I could see math was the language for art and science, that without math I would not have a house to live in, that without art, there would be no design for science [like, computers or your tv or even your toaster]. Or that without science, how could artist use pigments or materials?

I think they need to look more at how different people learn. Some learn well from books, others with their hands and their sense. Others independentaly and others within groups.

I found history and awful bore as a child. The names. The dates. But when it came to learning about their lifestyles and experimenting with how people lived, it came alive, like making home made candles like the colonials did before elecricity was discovered.

We need creative and energetic teaching. The only limit to our children's potential is our energy.

cats.life

i dont mind the home work for half hour when they get home, but when it goes over an hour and half thats stupid, few times last term when my lad was in 6th he got heaps of it to do ( a new teacher startefor 6th class) the child was crying doing it cos he was afraid of teacher , so i chatted to the nose wipe (teacher) and told him to calm it with the work at home, now im usualy calm and hold back on things but not that day, i let fly . my lad is very good at the homework and finised what he got, so this is out of order by this new teacher coming from another school shouting at the lads and girls who were excellent at their school work, after that they were told if they dont get the work done in the 45mins , the parent is to write a note . yes home is good but not over half hour or an hour for 2ndery school. im told that teacher is nice this year.

Fittle

For me (my child is in 3rd class), homework causes so much stress and worry, that I have already had to speak to the teacher a few times.

I enjoy the fact that homework lets me see how he's doing in school, so I get him to wait until I get in from work before he does it. However, at 6pm we are both tired and the last thing we want to down to do homework. Anyway, the stress begins when he realises he has forgotten a book, or a copy....they leave their books in school and only bring home the relevant books for homework. So far, after 6wks back, I'd say there were two days when he brought home the right books. It's 2.15 before the teacher writes the homework down for them so they've to write it in their journal and get all the relevant books in their schoolbags, within 15 minutes.

So then he gets upset when he realises he has the wrong book/workbook/copy because he'll be in trouble the next day....there have been tears in our house most evenings....

I actually dread that hour every evening now and would be all for the recommendation that the idea of homework is reviewed....

implausible

cats.life wrote: »

i dont mind the home work for half hour when they get home, but when it goes over an hour and half thats stupid, few times last term when my lad was in 6th he got heaps of it to do ( a new teacher startefor 6th class) the child was crying doing it cos he was afraid of teacher , so i chatted to the nose wipe (teacher) and told him to calm it with the work at home, now im usualy calm and hold back on things but not that day, i let fly . my lad is very good at the homework and finised what he got, so this is out of order by this new teacher coming from another school shouting at the lads and girls who were excellent at their school work, after that they were told if they dont get the work done in the 45mins , the parent is to write a note . yes home is good but not over half hour or an hour for 2ndery school. im told that teacher is nice this year.

I feel sorry for your child. If you have no respect for teachers, how on earth do you expect your child to have some? Calling a professional a "nose wipe" is bang out of order, as is marching into a school and "letting fly" at someone whose job it is to educate your child! What kind of lesson is that to teach your child? :eek: If you have an issue, there are adult ways to deal with it.

And, for the record, in sixth class, the teacher is preparing your child for the huge amount of work expected of him in secondary school. I don't think an hour and a half is unreasonable.

cats.life

deemark wrote: »

I feel sorry for your child. If you have no respect for teachers, how on earth do you expect your child to have some? Calling a professional a "nose wipe" is bang out of order, as is marching into a school and "letting fly" at someone whose job it is to educate your child! What kind of lesson is that to teach your child? :eek: If you have an issue, there are adult ways to deal with it.

And, for the record, in sixth class, the teacher is preparing your child for the huge amount of work expected of him in secondary school. I don't think an hour and a half is unreasonable.

read private message ive sent you.

planetX

I wish they'd do 'show and tell' here - now I know it's straight out of American tv, but it's looks like such fun. I have so many things in mind to send in for my son's show and tell.... if he had any:(
And I would LOVE to help him build a pyramid for homework, or a volcano, or something. We just fill in the blanks in workbooks zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

planetX

Fittle wrote: »

For me (my child is in 3rd class), homework causes so much stress and worry, that I have already had to speak to the teacher a few times.

I enjoy the fact that homework lets me see how he's doing in school, so I get him to wait until I get in from work before he does it. However, at 6pm we are both tired and the last thing we want to down to do homework. Anyway, the stress begins when he realises he has forgotten a book, or a copy....they leave their books in school and only bring home the relevant books for homework. So far, after 6wks back, I'd say there were two days when he brought home the right books. It's 2.15 before the teacher writes the homework down for them so they've to write it in their journal and get all the relevant books in their schoolbags, within 15 minutes.

So then he gets upset when he realises he has the wrong book/workbook/copy because he'll be in trouble the next day....there have been tears in our house most evenings....

I actually dread that hour every evening now and would be all for the recommendation that the idea of homework is reviewed....

+1 about the forgotten books, we have that nearly every night too.

cats.life

Fittle wrote: »

For me (my child is in 3rd class), homework causes so much stress and worry, that I have already had to speak to the teacher a few times.

I enjoy the fact that homework lets me see how he's doing in school, so I get him to wait until I get in from work before he does it. However, at 6pm we are both tired and the last thing we want to down to do homework. Anyway, the stress begins when he realises he has forgotten a book, or a copy....they leave their books in school and only bring home the relevant books for homework. So far, after 6wks back, I'd say there were two days when he brought home the right books. It's 2.15 before the teacher writes the homework down for them so they've to write it in their journal and get all the relevant books in their schoolbags, within 15 minutes.

So then he gets upset when he realises he has the wrong book/workbook/copy because he'll be in trouble the next day....there have been tears in our house most evenings....

I actually dread that hour every evening now and would be all for the recommendation that the idea of homework is reviewed....

suggestion tomake sure he dont forget any books or copys , i look through my lads bag in the car and if he has forgotten anything i just nip in to school to get it from his school box . teacher dont mind me doing it, it mght not work if you have him collected by bus etc.

Oracle

metrovelvet wrote: »

I would say the entirety of the first four years of my primary education were a complete waste of time. Except for penmanship. That was the only thing I learned in school. I learned how to read and basic maths before I started school. I was bored stiff and played hookie at 5. Drove my mother demented.

Completely agree. I learned much more at home, and my mother taught me to read. I disliked school and was constantly bored. The relentless routine, petty regulation and constant supervision was very oppressive. As for the long list of things school does for you, I have another list. This is what children learn in the first few years at school:

They learn to sit still and be passive.
They learn to be the same as everyone else.
They learn if they are different they will be bullied.
They learn to take orders and listen to instructions.
They learn to live by rules and regulation.
They learn to listen for a bell, to watch the clock and obey the teacher.
They learn to please the teacher.
They learn everything of value is outside of them.
They learn they must fit in, and that fitting in means being the same as everyone else- doing the same thing, thinking the same thoughts, saying the same things and asking permission for everything.
They learn they can ask certain questions.
They learn not to question.
They learn how to be completely bored.
They learn how to be dumb.

Fittle

cats.life wrote: »

suggestion tomake sure he dont forget any books or copys , i look through my lads bag in the car and if he has forgotten anything i just nip in to school to get it from his school box . teacher dont mind me doing it, it mght not work if you have him collected by bus etc.

Not do-able in my situation unfortunately. I work f/t and have a minder collect him...it's not something I could ask her to do, as she collects another child after mine and is under pressure of time.

the simple solution, or the simplest I could think of was to ask teacher to write it on the board earlier than 2.15....but it's not something she can do she tells me...

Grawns

My Mother was a national teacher for years and when I used to complain about it ( homework) she would explain that it was some parents who demanded the homework, not the teachers at all. Now this makes sense as teachers do not want to be correcting the stuff in their own time.

I wonder what would happen if you told the teacher, the head, whover, that your child wouldn't be doing homework as you didn't believe in it's educational value and the school day was long enough for a child. Let's say up to 10 or 11 years and it's a given that you are happy with your child's ability and progress. That would be my ideal plan for my child.

metrovelvet

planetX wrote: »

I wish they'd do 'show and tell' here - now I know it's straight out of American tv, but it's looks like such fun. I have so many things in mind to send in for my son's show and tell.... if he had any:(
And I would LOVE to help him build a pyramid for homework, or a volcano, or something. We just fill in the blanks in workbooks zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

We had show and tell. I think its great. We get lots more practise at public speaking and presenting. Probably why we appear more confident.

I remember bringing in my volcano before it became fashionable and a clock that used marbles.

My mother despaired over the take home projects because it cost her more money. It meant buying more supplies, like modelling clay and plexiglass. ALso she had a small baby [my brother] so was busy and hugely resented these projects, having come from the IRish education system she thought they were stupid.

Oracle

Actually building things, or doing anything remotely useful, wouldn't be boring enough.

thebullkf

Thaedydal wrote: »

I disagree.
When my eldest started primary at the new parents meeting the principal read out a piece on what children learn in the first few years.

They learn to listen,
they learn to share,
they learn to look out for each other,
they learn to wait their turn,
they get a chance to use their manners
They learn to take off their own coat,
they learn to ask permission
they learn that they can not fight or hit
they learn to mind their bags
they learn to sit and complete tasks
they learn to ask questions

There are so many 'lessons' which are not on the circulum which are absorbed in those first two years.

isn't that what pre-school is for??
maybe thats the difference i see with certain kids in our school.
some seem much ..i dunno-relaxed/used to it more than others.

i definitely think homework is essential for children.

thebullkf

Thaedydal wrote: »

Pedagogy: The strategies of instruction, or a style of instruction used by teachers.


Well if we look around at how much the world has changed and then look at school, 100 years ago we had kids sitting in rows with the teacher at the top of the class, and it's the same to day.

There was a wonderful TEDtalk about child driven learning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk60sYrU2RU

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-10663353

incredible.

thebullkf

Oracle wrote: »

Completely agree. I learned much more at home, and my mother taught me to read. I disliked school and was constantly bored. The relentless routine, petty regulation and constant supervision was very oppressive. As for the long list of things school does for you, I have another list. This is what children learn in the first few years at school:

They learn to sit still and be passive.
They learn to be the same as everyone else.
They learn if they are different they will be bullied.
They learn to take orders and listen to instructions.
They learn to live by rules and regulation.
They learn to listen for a bell, to watch the clock and obey the teacher.
They learn to please the teacher.
They learn everything of value is outside of them.
They learn they must fit in, and that fitting in means being the same as everyone else- doing the same thing, thinking the same thoughts, saying the same things and asking permission for everything.
They learn they can ask certain questions.
They learn not to question.
They learn how to be completely bored.
They learn how to be dumb.

^^ = wow..

i disagreewith most of it.

noteveryone can homeschool.not every school suits every child.
to say school teaches you to be dumb,well thats dumb.

goat2

school home work has real benefits,it give parents a chance to see how advanced their offsprings are at school,i sat every evening giving each of my children half an hour of my time, i am glad i did, i helped lay the cornerstone of what they are today, one of them was bad at reading, spelling and paying attention, another was slow at maths, another was lazy, and the other could not put the books away, through that time i gave them i do know it helped, it is very hard on teachers looking after, teaching, keeping them quiet and sitting at the age of four, five and six, 25 to 30 in numbersHOME WORK HAS BIG BENEFITS

Orizio

destinybabe wrote: »

I reckon the school day uses up enough time in a childs life especially in primary school, they deserve to have a good quality of life to be enabled to relax, play and be kids when they get home at the end of their day.:)

Unfortunately, 'relaxing' for most children nowadays means vegetating in front of the TV for hours. I'm inclined to think Math and reading are more worthwhile activities, no matter how much the parents and children complain.

A far greater tragedy is the amount of time wasted on indoctrinating our young children in superstition and superficial spirituality.

Oracle

thebullkf wrote: »

.... to say school teaches you to be dumb .....

Yes, thats what I'm saying, in school, children learn to be dumb. In fact, it's worse than that, the school system is deliberately designed, to create dumbness.

Fittle

Orizio wrote: »

Unfortunately, 'relaxing' for most children nowadays means vegetating in front of the TV for hours. I'm inclined to think Math and reading are more worthwhile activities, no matter how much the parents and children complain.

A far greater tragedy is the amount of time wasted on indoctrinating our young children in superstition and superficial spirituality.

Could you expand on that a little?

Superstition? I don't spend any amount of time indoctrinating my young child in superstition as far as I'm aware...
And superficial spirituality is what exactly

EWJim

As a mature student I have found the importance of homework/ study.
To keep up with my studies I have to spend at least 3 hours a night studying and doing homework to keep up.

Having Kids in secondary school doing this prepares them for Collage.

As for the above point I also believe that more time should be give to Practical things like Learning Touch Typing, Entrepreneurship ect,and such.


In Conclusion Home work is a Vital part of the education Presses, as it will prepare students for there future, Plus as said before it dose let parents know how your child is doing

opinion guy

I think homework has a real and definite benefit, but the key thing is the form of that homework. I think the other important thing is parental involvement with the homwork.

What am I blathering on about. In school I found my homework in Maths for example to be very useful I hated doing it (thou I liked Maths), but I definitely benefited from it. But then again my mum was a math teacher herself and was super involved. Lets take Irish on the other hand - as soon as I entered secondary school my homework every day without fail was to learn off an a4 essay every night from a book of essay and be able to write it in the morning. This would have taken me hours had I done it and meant I was doing out. So even as a 12 year old I just said f**k that I'm not doing that. And I didn't. Everyday we spent ten mins of Irish class writing out said essay, whici I of course cheated on and got caught all the time. And my Irish never progressed beyond my primary school level.

So I think the point is that homework is a good thing if its usefully constructed to practice some key points and make you apply your knowledge and push your ability. If it is pointless busywork then its just a complete waste of both home time and class time in correcting it. I also think parental involvement in homework is a good thing. But there are 2 problems with that - not all parents have the time to get involved and not all parents are able to do the homework themselves.

Finally when it comes to languages I feel conventional teaching wasn't very good for me. It turns out much later on in my career I write as a part of my job - that has done far more than my English than homework ever seemed to do - in terms of expressing myself I mean. Grammar is unavoidable but I think I'd learned whatever grammar I know in primary school. Somehow the course in secondary school didn't train my ability to express myself through words, which is just as important, if not more so, than knowing your Shakespere etc.