Questions about God and Jesus...

r9ronaldo

i am by no stretch a great person...im bang average at best!but i do believe in the christian god(i prefer the word father)and i do pray to him,i ask for things,one is that he help me be more knowledgeable about these sort of things(atheist vs christian debate)sometimes i feel my prayers are answered and i have some information, sometimes i feel im a ****in gob****e who knows nothing and my stupid answers will be blown out of the water by smart intellectual thinking atheists!

but il give it a go sure....

so can some atheists please post there biggest questions/problems they have with christian god/jesus....and we can all see that i was right bout me not knowin nothing!!!

MagicMarker

Why don't you start by telling us why you specifically believe in a Christian god?

sonicthebadger*

MagicMarker wrote: »

Why don't you start by telling us why you specifically believe in a Christian god?

What he said.

Mark Hamill

r9ronaldo wrote: »

so can some atheists please post there biggest questions/problems they have with christian god/jesus....and we can all see that i was right bout me not knowin nothing!!!

Chances are, half of the questions/problems people will respond to you with, you wont be able to answer. This is not because you know nothing, but because there are so many different versions of what people believe about god and Jesus, that half of what people say to you just wont apply to your beliefs.

I think it would be better for you to elaborate a bit on your beliefs about god first and then people can say the problems they have with them.

sink

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Chances are, half of the questions/problems people will respond to you with, you wont be able to answer. This is not because you know nothing, but because there are so many different versions of what people believe about god and Jesus, that half of what people say to you just wont apply to your beliefs.

I think it would be better for you to elaborate a bit on your beliefs about god first and then people can say the problems they have with them.

That itself is probably a good starting point. One of the main reasons I myself am a atheist is that no one can satisfactorily answer the question 'what is god?'. That question is even more fundamental that the question of gods existence, and must be answered before that latter can be addressed.

Take two different descriptions of god and show me a means of determining which one to be correct or even more accurate.

Zombrex

r9ronaldo wrote: »

so can some atheists please post there biggest questions/problems they have with christian god/jesus....and we can all see that i was right bout me not knowin nothing!!!

This is by no means the biggest problem I have with the Christian god, but it is one at the core of the religion that no Christian has yet been able to give a satisfactory answer to.

How does Jesus' suffering and death (being part of God, and sent by the Father) pay for the injustice of Adam's (and humanities) disobedience?

If we assume for a minute the ancient system of debt that the Hebrew notions are based on then it would seem illogical that Jesus, either being God or at the very least sent by God, could equal out the debt of sin against God.

It would be like you burning down my house and me saying I forgive you but since justice must be served I'm going to beat myself/my son for a few hours.

If I beat myself then nothing is being paid to myself to replace the loss of my house.

If I beat my son then nothing is being paid to myself to replace the loss of my house since my son isn't even offering to take the beating on behalf of you (a silly notion in modern times but I guess one that works in Hewbrew times so if he was that might make sense).


Or to put it in a better context of the Old Tesatment which these rules are based on, it would me sinning against God and then instead of me killing a goat at the alter it would be be like God killing his own goat. How does that appease God, or his sense of justice?

Turtwig

r9ronaldo wrote: »

so can some atheists please post there biggest questions/problems they have with christian god/jesus....and we can all see that i was right bout me not knowin nothing!!!

The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.

Discuss

Zillah

r9ronaldo wrote: »

i do pray to him,i ask for things,one is that he help me be more knowledgeable about these sort of things(atheist vs christian debate)sometimes i feel my prayers are answered and i have some information

I think you'll find that reading books is a better way to educate yourself than praying.

so can some atheists please post there biggest questions/problems they have with christian god/jesus....and we can all see that i was right bout me not knowin nothing!!!

This is a very general question, but I suppose I could say that my position in a nutshell is that Christian beliefs are a load of convoluted nonsense with no evidence that have shown themselves to be devastatingly detrimental to both the happiness and well being of individuals and society at large. I'm sure Jesus was a nice guy and all but the story with the whole original sin, sacrifice by proxy, eternal salvation etc...it's all just a bit mad isn't it?

Improbable

Malty_T wrote: »

The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.

Discuss

I love that quote. Best thing is that none of it is wrong and it's nice watching religious people fall over themselves trying to defend this "god".

LETHAL LADY

My thoughts exactly.

r9ronaldo

ok u guys are right perhaps i should say why i believe in christian god

there is no 1 thing its a few reasons of all equal importance

1.jesus-the story of jesus may sound silly with angels and immaculate conceptions and miracles and rising from the dead..but when you read the exact quotes that came from his mouth i realised this guy has knowledge!knowledge that can only come from a higher source..some of the parables and 1 liners jesus said i must admit give me goosebumps as they were so wise...iv never read any quotes from any other god or human being to be on the same level as thr quotes from jesus!


2. i can not for one second believe that once we die we go back into the same state of conscious nothingness that we were before we were born...like for the rest of eternity...ETERNITY u cant even get ur head around how long eternity is and to think once u die u go back into that state of no conscious no nothing....that would terrify me!

3,to think that all the close loved ones who i have lost and will losw weather it be a child,a father,a mother,a brother,a sister,a friend,a wife.....to think that once they die u will never ever EVER see them again...a young child who u lose to think that u will never ever EVER see them again i cannot believe that it is enough to drive a man insane to think like that!!!

so thats my main 3 reasons why i believe

MagicMarker

r9ronaldo wrote: »

1.jesus-the story of jesus may sound silly with angels and immaculate conceptions and miracles and rising from the dead..but when you read the exact quotes that came from his mouth i realised this guy has knowledge!knowledge that can only come from a higher source..some of the parables and 1 liners jesus said i must admit give me goosebumps as they were so wise...iv never read any quotes from any other god or human being to be on the same level as thr quotes from jesus!

Can you provide an example of something that Jesus said that NO other person could have said? There were many great philosophers long before Jesus ever existed, if he did in fact exist.

r9ronaldo wrote: »

2. i can not for one second believe that once we die we go back into the same state of conscious nothingness that we were before we were born...like for the rest of eternity...ETERNITY u cant even get ur head around how long eternity is and to think once u die u go back into that state of no conscious no nothing....that would terrify me!

The universe has been around for 14 billion years prior to your existence, it will continue on without you.

r9ronaldo wrote: »

3,to think that all the close loved ones who i have lost and will losw weather it be a child,a father,a mother,a brother,a sister,a friend,a wife.....to think that once they die u will never ever EVER see them again...a young child who u lose to think that u will never ever EVER see them again i cannot believe that it is enough to drive a man insane to think like that!!!

so thats my main 3 reasons why i believe

Do you think fear of the unknown is a good enough reason to believe in a god? Why don't you believe in the other gods?

Let's say you're right, and there is heaven, then surely there must be a hell?

So do you serve your god? Or are you a sinner? Which are you more afraid of, ceasing to exist or existing in eternal damnation?

DeVore

r9ronaldo wrote: »

ok u guys are right perhaps i should say why i believe in christian god

there is no 1 thing its a few reasons of all equal importance

1.jesus-the story of jesus may sound silly with angels and immaculate conceptions and miracles and rising from the dead..but when you read the exact quotes that came from his mouth i realised this guy has knowledge!knowledge that can only come from a higher source..some of the parables and 1 liners jesus said i must admit give me goosebumps as they were so wise...iv never read any quotes from any other god or human being to be on the same level as thr quotes from jesus!

Bill Hicks does the same for me.

2. i can not for one second believe that once we die we go back into the same state of conscious nothingness that we were before we were born...like for the rest of eternity...ETERNITY u cant even get ur head around how long eternity is and to think once u die u go back into that state of no conscious no nothing....that would terrify me!

What you can and cannot believe does not influence the nature of reality.

This is a fear reaction. You said it yourself, it terrifies you.

3,to think that all the close loved ones who i have lost and will losw weather it be a child,a father,a mother,a brother,a sister,a friend,a wife.....to think that once they die u will never ever EVER see them again...a young child who u lose to think that u will never ever EVER see them again i cannot believe that it is enough to drive a man insane to think like that!!!

so thats my main 3 reasons why i believe

Again more fear. You believe in God because you cant summon the courage to face the truth.

You will die. That much you can be sure of.

Neither 2 nor 3 offer anything even remotely connected with God and are entirely built on wishful thinking out of fear of facing the truth.


I'm sorry to be harsh but its clearly true.


Oh, there's no Santa and Bambi's mother dies in the end.


DeV.

My name is URL

r9ronaldo wrote: »

3,to think that all the close loved ones who i have lost and will losw weather it be a child,a father,a mother,a brother,a sister,a friend,a wife.....to think that once they die u will never ever EVER see them again...a young child who u lose to think that u will never ever EVER see them again i cannot believe that it is enough to drive a man insane to think like that!!!

If your beliefs help you get through the day then don't allow the beliefs of others to encroach you of finding that comfort.

Improbable

My name is URL wrote: »

If your beliefs help you get through the day then don't allow the beliefs of others to encroach you of finding that comfort.

Just because someone wants to believe it doesn't make it any more true.

Zillah

r9ronaldo wrote: »

ok u guys are right perhaps i should say why i believe in christian god

there is no 1 thing its a few reasons of all equal importance

1.jesus-the story of jesus may sound silly with angels and immaculate conceptions and miracles and rising from the dead..but when you read the exact quotes that came from his mouth i realised this guy has knowledge!knowledge that can only come from a higher source..some of the parables and 1 liners jesus said i must admit give me goosebumps as they were so wise...iv never read any quotes from any other god or human being to be on the same level as thr quotes from jesus!


2. i can not for one second believe that once we die we go back into the same state of conscious nothingness that we were before we were born...like for the rest of eternity...ETERNITY u cant even get ur head around how long eternity is and to think once u die u go back into that state of no conscious no nothing....that would terrify me!

3,to think that all the close loved ones who i have lost and will losw weather it be a child,a father,a mother,a brother,a sister,a friend,a wife.....to think that once they die u will never ever EVER see them again...a young child who u lose to think that u will never ever EVER see them again i cannot believe that it is enough to drive a man insane to think like that!!!

so thats my main 3 reasons why i believe

The fact that you are afraid of something does not make that thing untrue. There have been plenty of women who (for example) thought the idea of their husband sexually abusing their own children was so horrific that it could not be true that turned out to be wrong. Absolutely horrendous things happen every day, and we are incredibly lucky to not have them happen to us. Everything that has ever happened on this planet paints a picture of a universe that knows no mercy or hate, it simply grinds forward eventually crushing everything beneath it. Any love, mercy, beauty or other things you think amazing about humanity that we have, came from us and are entirely dependent on our willingness to sustain them.

That is to say, in rather verbose terms, that your reasons 2 and 3 are not good reasons. They are excellent explanations for why you might refuse to reconsider your beliefs or to cling desperately to them despite all evidence to the contrary, but it says nothing about how likely you are to be right.

As for Jesus; yeah, he said some cool stuff. Lots of people have said cool stuff, in my opinion there are many hundreds of people who have said more interesting things and have had a more beneficial impact on society. There is nothing about the story of Jesus that leads a reasonable person to think he was the son of God.

mr fog light

DeVore wrote: »

Bill Hicks does the same for me.

Me too.

In his positive drug story gag Hicks says " all matter is merely energy condenced to a slow vibration we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively their's no such thing as death life is but a dream ......"
he then goes on to say how we kill the people who tell us this.

Reading certain words that are reported to be from Jesus i believe this is a message he was trying to convey and he was killed for doing so.:P

seamus

My name is URL wrote: »

If your beliefs help you get through the day then don't allow the beliefs of others to encroach you of finding that comfort.

Equally don't try to encroach onto the beliefs of others just because yours gives you comfort.

Dades

r9ronaldo, In case you're wondering I've spun your question off into it's own thread.

Beruthiel

r9ronaldo wrote: »

1.jesus-the story of jesus may sound silly with angels and immaculate conceptions and miracles and rising from the dead..but when you read the exact quotes that came from his mouth i realised this guy has knowledge!

Exact quotes?
Considering the bible was written 300 years after Jesus was alive, I'm questioning how anyone could have recorded an exact quote over such a time period.

iv never read any quotes from any other god or human being to be on the same level as thr quotes from jesus

Read more. Because there are some fantastic people out there who have had far more wonderful, logical and realistic things to say about life.

i can not for one second believe that once we die we go back into the same state of conscious nothingness that we were before we were born...like for the rest of eternity...ETERNITY u cant even get ur head around how long eternity is and to think once u die u go back into that state of no conscious no nothing....that would terrify me!

And yet, that is exactly what happens. You are nothing. You live for a nano second. You are nothing.
Now that may terrify you, but that doesn't change what happens. Embrace it and enjoy your few seconds in this Universe.

to think that all the close loved ones who i have lost and will losw weather it be a child,a father,a mother,a brother,a sister,a friend,a wife.....to think that once they die u will never ever EVER see them again...a young child who u lose to think that u will never ever EVER see them again i cannot believe that it is enough to drive a man insane to think like that!!!

Again with the fear.
Honestly, are you going to live the one life you have living in fear? Considering that when you die, you will no longer care about your above comments (due to you not existing), then all this fear has been for nothing.
Quit imaging what may or may not happen after you die and enjoy your life and your family now.
You cannot control what happens after you die. Better you take some control over yourself while you live.

sensibleken

Beruthiel wrote: »

Exact quotes?
Considering the bible was written 300 years after Jesus was alive, I'm questioning how anyone could have recorded an exact quote over such a time period.


.

Just to be a pedant. The new estament was compiled 300 years later by Constantine but the books (and others that were omited) were written in the 1st century AD, although none of the authors were eye witnesses, so could still all be b*llox

Beruthiel

sensibleken wrote: »

Just to be a pedant. The new estament was compiled 300 years later by Constantine but the books (and others that were omited) were written in the 1st century AD, although none of the authors were eye witnesses, so could still all be b*llox

Considering how something can be misquoted in this day and age, even if it was written a year later, I wouldn't believe quotes written by someone else.

sensibleken

Beruthiel wrote: »

Considering how something can be misquoted in this day and age, even if it was written a year later, I wouldn't believe quotes written by someone else.

True that. maybe it really was the cheesemakers and the greek that was blessed!

'No! I said im the son of Maude! You know, the lady who runs the laundrette!'

robindch

r9ronaldo wrote: »

my stupid answers will be blown out of the water by smart intellectual thinking atheists! [...] we can all see that i was right bout me not knowin nothing!!!

I realize that christianity instructs people to believe that they're condemned individuals, but I don't think there's any need to pin it to your chest to that degree :eek:

r9ronaldo wrote: »

biggest questions/problems they have with christian god/jesus....and

The fact that it's clearly nonsense?

Why would the creator of the universe manifest as a first-century itinerant Rabbi in Palestine so that he could get himself executed by Roman soldiers to that he (in his creator form) could seal a deal he made with himself to prevent all future inhabitants of earth from falling victim to a design-flaw implemented by the Rabbi and the other two-thirds of an invisible god?

This isn't just silly, it's bloody ludicrous.

achtungbarry

There many many reasons why the existance of an all powerful deity is unlikely in the extreme. In this case the Christian god and his son Jesus.

The one that I find most convincing is the following: Human beings have been inventing deities and religions for thousands of years, everything from worshipping the sun, Egyptian gods, Greek gods, Roman gods, Meso-American gods eth etc.

Most theists will deny the existance of all of these gods yet still believe that their one is somehow the "right one" and claim scriptural evidence and personal conviction and faith among other things to support their claim. This completely ignores the fact that all of the gods ever created by humans have had followers who believed with just as much assuredness and conviction as Christians, Muslims, Jews and others today believe in their chosen deity. Many of the the gods humans have believed in over the centuries even have various "scriptures" to confirm their existance.

Just to hammer the point home, here is a list of some of the deities that human beings have believed in over the centuries. Each beliver was as sure as any modern believer that their god was real. The sheer scale of the list makes one thing very clear.

They can't all be right but........ well you know the rest.

Think about this: Why is your one "right" and all the ones below "wrong"?

(Apologies for taking up so much screen real estate and wearing out the scroller on your mouse.)

Abassi
......
[1352 gods deleted by moderator]

No prob, I wasn't sure whether to to actually put the full list in or not.Admittedly it takes up a ridiculous amount of screen. The fact that 1352 gods had to be deleted really hammers home the point even more. Here is alink to the list:

http://lukeprog.com/religion/gods.html
......
Zotz

sensibleken

^^ it The Dagda and The Morrigan :P

r9ronaldo

r9ronaldo wrote: »

iv never read any quotes from any other god or human being to be on the same level as thr quotes from jesus!

I'll be frank: this makes me more inclined to think that you're not widely read, rather than anything special about jesus' supposed quotes.

2. i can not for one second believe that once we die we go back into the same state of conscious nothingness that we were before we were born...like for the rest of eternity...ETERNITY u cant even get ur head around how long eternity is and to think once u die u go back into that state of no conscious no nothing....that would terrify me!

You didn't notice it before you were born and you wouldn't notice it afterwards either.
Not that I believe there's nothing anyway.

3,to think that all the close loved ones who i have lost and will losw weather it be a child,a father,a mother,a brother,a sister,a friend,a wife.....to think that once they die u will never ever EVER see them again...a young child who u lose to think that u will never ever EVER see them again i cannot believe that it is enough to drive a man insane to think like that!!!

so thats my main 3 reasons why i believe

That's 1 reason you believe in christianity and 2 reasons that you believe in a non-specific, non-necessarily-theistic afterlife.

robindch wrote: »

I realize that christianity instructs people to believe that they're condemned individuals, but I don't think there's any need to pin it to your chest to that degree .

"I'm so worthless I don't deserve his love and he only hurts me because he loves me and sometimes I make him so mad or disappointed"

The Rook

DeVore wrote: »

Oh, there's no Santa and Bambi's mother dies in the end.


DeV.

Bambi's mother dies at the start ....

I-Shot-Jr

The Rook wrote: »

Bambi's mother dies at the start ....

I was waiting for this.

Dades

The Rook wrote: »

Bambi's mother dies at the start ....

Maybe it's like "Gandhi"... where he dies at the start and the end. :pac:

Galvasean

r9ronaldo wrote: »

2. i can not for one second believe that once we die we go back into the same state of conscious nothingness that we were before we were born...like for the rest of eternity...ETERNITY u cant even get ur head around how long eternity is and to think once u die u go back into that state of no conscious no nothing....that would terrify me!

I think the other questions have been satisfcationately answered, so I'll pick up on a point I don't think has been addressed (apologies if someone else pointed it out and I simply missed it).
Your objection to eternity seems hypocritical. If the atheists are right you die, you cease to exist. It won't bother you in the slightest because you won't exist. As my grandfather used to say, "Do you remember where you were before you were born? Well that's exactly where you go when you die, so don't worry about it!"
I think most humans are just too egocentric to imagine a universe where they don't exist. That's why they invented the afterlife.

So, with atheism there is no eternity (at least not for the individual). However with Christianity there certainly is. Living forever in Heaven sounds great... but what do you do in 6 billion years time when you have grown bored? It is human nature to constantly want something more, something new. We can't help it.
There was actually an episode of The Twighlight Zone which featured this notion. A criminal who led a very bad life died and went to the afterlife. There he met his guardian angel who showed him the ropes. Everything was great. Loads of fun and games, fast cars, beautiful dames, you name it.
In time the criminal started to grow bored of all this fun. There was no challenge, no uncertainty. So he decided to look up his personal record and have a read. Looking through it he read about all the horrible things he did in life, so he asked his guardian angel why he was let into heaven and not sent to "the other place"?
"What do you mean?" replied the guardian angel, "This is the other place!"

Dades

^^ Just to be pedantic - although I'd imagine most atheists do not believe in an afterlife, some do in some vague nonreligious way I'm sure. It's not a given.

(Random thread here.)

Galvasean

Dades wrote: »

^^ Just to be pedantic - although I'd imagine most atheists do not believe in an afterlife, some do in some vague nonreligious way I'm sure. It's not a given.

(Random thread here.)

They're just egocentical.

Galvasean

Dades wrote: »

Maybe it's like "Gandhi"... where he dies at the start and the end. :pac:

Way to ruin the movie!!!! :mad:

Dades

Galvasean wrote: »

Way to ruin the movie!!!! :mad:

That's a joke....... right? :pac:

Galvasean

Dades wrote: »

That's a joke....... right? :pac:

You mean the boat sinks?!?!?

Warning, do not click here unless you have seen every movie ever, or have no intention to watch movies ever again.

mr fog light

The excert from Dawkins above by Malty T is a fair enough comment of the Christian God if you take the bible as a whole.But i believe that the op is claiming that the direct words of J.C have a certain ring of truth for him /her.I don't believe that these words would lose this quality for r9ronaldo,if he/she were to merely read more books.Richard Dawkins my not have seen what r9ronaldo saw in these words but i believe he did say something to the effect that J.C was a very forward thinking individual for his time.
For as long as i can remember i have always had a similiar reaction to that of the op, to certain words and phrases that were reported to come from J.C as opposesed to a lot of the other stuff that was writted in the bible. I would also have come accross other's whose words contain this same quality.
Here is some of what Eckhart Tolle had to say about J.C.

"Many misunderstandings and false believes about Christ will clear if you realise that there is no past or future in Christ.To say that christ was or will be is a contradiction in terms.Jesus was. He was a man who lived two thousand years ago and realised divine presence,his true nature. And so he said " before Abraham was I am".He did not say: "I already existed before Abraham was born".That would have meant he was still in within the dimension of time and form identity.The words I AM used in a sentence that starts in the past tense indicate a radical shift, a discontinuity in the temporal dimension.It is a Zen-like statement of great profundity.Jesus attempted to convey directly, not through discursive tought , the meaning of presence of self-realization.He had gone beyond the consciousness dimension goverened by time, into the realm of the timeless.The dimension of eternity had come into this world.Eternity , of course does not mean endless time, but no time. Thus , the man Jesus became Christ a vehicle for pure consciousness.And what is God's self-defination in the bible ? Did God say "i have always been and always will be?" Of course not . That would have given reality to past and future. God said:"I AM THAT I AM". No time here just presence.
If "Christ" were to return tomorrow in some externalized form , what could he or she possible say to you other than this: "I am the Truth.I am divine presence. I am eternal Life. I am within you. I am here. I am now .

Shenshen

r9ronaldo wrote: »

i am by no stretch a great person...im bang average at best!but i do believe in the christian god(i prefer the word father)and i do pray to him,i ask for things,one is that he help me be more knowledgeable about these sort of things(atheist vs christian debate)sometimes i feel my prayers are answered and i have some information, sometimes i feel im a ****in gob****e who knows nothing and my stupid answers will be blown out of the water by smart intellectual thinking atheists!

but il give it a go sure....

so can some atheists please post there biggest questions/problems they have with christian god/jesus....and we can all see that i was right bout me not knowin nothing!!!

In one word? Some of his followers.

In particular those who feel that the rules set out in their book shouldn't only apply to them, but to absolutely everybody they can possibly force to obey them.

jayzusb.christ

My tuppenceworth: If God loves us all, and is all-powerful, why did he choose only to give some of us faith in him and huge swathes of us different faiths or no faith at all? Isn't there enough room in paradise for us all, or does he just want some of us to burn forever? Free will is one thing, but when he gives us practically no evidence whatsoever pointing to his existence; as well as the influence of one's culture's conflicting religion; it's not really fair on those of us who are either logically-minded or born in non-Christian countries. Nor is it fair on the millions of people born before Yahweh-worshiping began.

Or is it Satan who invents heathen religions and atheism? If so, what happened to the 'all-powerful' bit? If God isn't strong enough to stop one rebellious miscreant from damning huge portions of the people he loves to eternal punishment, then you could hardly call him omnipotent.

If Jesus died to save us and cleanse of our sins, why do people still kill, rape and steal? Even just sticking within the field of the religion he inspired himself, why didn't he just say whether the wine and bread was transubstantiated or not? Would have saved an awful lot of hassle and a lot of violent deaths. One thing he was right on the button about though:

"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household." (Matthew 10:34)

housetypeb

[1352 gods deleted by moderator]


Maybe we should all pray to MODERATOR, He shall allow no gods before him:)

smokingman

And you open the door and you step inside
We're inside our hearts
Now imagine your pain as a white ball of healing light
That's right, your pain
The pain itself is a white ball of healing light
I don't think so

This is your life, good to the last drop
Doesn't get any better than this
This is your life and it's ending one minute at a time

This isn't a seminar, this isn't a weekend retreat
Where you are now you can't even imagine what the bottom will be like
Only after disaster can we be resurrected
It's only after you've lost everything that you're free to do anything
Nothing is static, everything is appaling, everything is falling apart

This is your life, this is your life, this is your life, this is your life
Doesn't get any better than this
This is your life, this is your life, this is your life, this is your life
And it and it's ending one-minute at a time

You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake
You are the same decaying organic matter as everything else
We are all part of the same compost heap
We are the all singing, all dancing, crap of the world

You are not your bank account
You are not the clothes you wear
You are not the contents of your wallet
You are not your bowel cancer
You are not your grande latte
You are not the car you drive
You are not your ****ing khaki's

You have to give up, you have to give up
You have to realize that someday you will die
Until you know that, you are useless

I say let me never be complete
I say may I never be content
I say deliver me from Swedish furniture
I say deliver me from clever arts
I say deliver me from clear skin and perfect teeth
I say you have to give up
I say evolve, and let the chips fall where they may

This is your life, this is your life, this is your life, this is your life
Doesn't get any better than this
This is your life, this is your life, this is your life, this is your life
And it and it's ending one-minute at a time

You have to give up, you have to give up
I want you to hit me as hard as you can
I want you to hit me as hard as you can

Welcome to Atheist Club
If this is your first night, you have to live your life for every second from here on in and enjoy it in the here and now!

krudler

1.jesus-the story of jesus may sound silly with angels and immaculate conceptions and miracles and rising from the dead..but when you read the exact quotes that came from his mouth i realised this guy has knowledge!knowledge that can only come from a higher source..some of the parables and 1 liners jesus said i must admit give me goosebumps as they were so wise...iv never read any quotes from any other god or human being to be on the same level as thr quotes from jesus!

"exact quotes"? according to who? since the bible was written years afterwards. Unless there was someone following him around with a notebook taking down what he said then those exact quotes are just 2nd hand information told to someone decades later.

"blessed are the cheesemakers" indeed.

2. i can not for one second believe that once we die we go back into the same state of conscious nothingness that we were before we were born...like for the rest of eternity...ETERNITY u cant even get ur head around how long eternity is and to think once u die u go back into that state of no conscious no nothing....that would terrify me!

Why? you dont know what it was like before you were born, does that terrify you as much? I prefer the thought of nothingness to having to live my life according to the rules of some genocidal asshole deity.

Dades

mr fog light wrote: »

Here is some of what Eckhart Tolle had to say about J.C.

"... And so he said " before Abraham was I am".He did not say: "I already existed before Abraham was born".That would have meant he was still in within the dimension of time and form identity.The words I AM used in a sentence that starts in the past tense indicate a radical shift, a discontinuity in the temporal dimension...

This is the problem right here. Just look at the lengths gone to here to analyse the specific, individual words of Jesus - when there is no way of knowing whether what he said was similar to that, or even if he said it at all.

People read into words what they want to see, or what makes sense to them, in the same way the original writers (tens or hundreds of years after he allegedly died) would have decided what they thought Jesus might have said.

krudler

You know what bugs me about religion? its cut off point.
Think about it, if a guy arrived down off a mountain with two bits rock with some guidelines chiseled into them these days, he'd be passed off as a lunatic, same as anyone who "sees" angels, can heal the sick (supposedly)or get visions from god.
So why was all this acceptable to write a book about because it happened a few thousand years ago? The bible is like wikipedia, full of inaccuracies, nobody really knows who wrote specific parts but if it sounds accurate people tend to agree with it, but the edit function has been permanently disabled, no new entries available.

jayzusb.christ

krudler wrote: »

You know what bugs me about religion? its cut off point.
Think about it, if a guy arrived down off a mountain with two bits rock with some guidelines chiseled into them these days, he'd be passed off as a lunatic, same as anyone who "sees" angels, can heal the sick (supposedly)or get visions from god.
So why was all this acceptable to write a book about because it happened a few thousand years ago?

Moses: The Koresh who got lucky.

Or possibly didn't exist.

Patrickof

Dades wrote: »

This is the problem right here. Just look at the lengths gone to here to analyse the specific, individual words of Jesus - when there is no way of knowing whether what he said was similar to that, or even if he said it at all.

People read into words what they want to see, or what makes sense to them, in the same way the original writers (tens or hundreds of years after he allegedly died) would have decided what they thought Jesus might have said.

Precisely, remember that the english words we read are a translation from earlier texts, and some of those themselves could be translations from even earlier versions.

"I am that I am" could just be a translation by someone with bad grammar!

One would need to study and comment on the original Hebrew or Greek to make a statement that Eckhart Tolle did.

If Jesus existed, didn't he speak Aramaic? So even v1.0 of the gospel stories was a translation (greek or hebrew)

strobe

mr fog light wrote: »

Here is some of what Eckhart Tolle had to say about J.C.

"Many misunderstandings and false believes about Christ will clear if you realise that there is no past or future in Christ.To say that christ was or will be is a contradiction in terms.Jesus was. He was a man who lived two thousand years ago and realised divine presence,his true nature. And so he said " before Abraham was I am".He did not say: "I already existed before Abraham was born".That would have meant he was still in within the dimension of time and form identity.The words I AM used in a sentence that starts in the past tense indicate a radical shift, a discontinuity in the temporal dimension.It is a Zen-like statement of great profundity.Jesus attempted to convey directly, not through discursive tought , the meaning of presence of self-realization.He had gone beyond the consciousness dimension goverened by time, into the realm of the timeless.The dimension of eternity had come into this world.Eternity , of course does not mean endless time, but no time. Thus , the man Jesus became Christ a vehicle for pure consciousness.And what is God's self-defination in the bible ? Did God say "i have always been and always will be?" Of course not . That would have given reality to past and future. God said:"I AM THAT I AM". No time here just presence.
If "Christ" were to return tomorrow in some externalized form , what could he or she possible say to you other than this: "I am the Truth.I am divine presence. I am eternal Life. I am within you. I am here. I am now .

Was Tolle a Gnostic?

Edit: Also, just for the record. The phrase "I Am" is used frequently in that way throughout the old testament, thousands of years before J.C showed up. So he wasn't really original there.

jayzusb.christ

He's still alive. not sure what you'd call him

robindch

housetypeb wrote: »

robindch wrote:

[1352 gods deleted by moderator]

Maybe we should all pray to MODERATOR, He shall allow no gods before him:)

Down on yer knees folks!

Improbable

I don't understand how you can attempt to separate god and jesus since they're supposedly the same entity. And to believe that jesus is the son of god, you have to believe in the god of the old testament do you not? So even if you follow the teachings of jesus, you cannot deny that this bad god exists. So how do you defend him? Not to mention the fact that hell didn't even exist in the old testament. It wasn't until jesus meek and mild showed up that people had to believe that you were going to be damned for eternity in hellfire. He's really no better.

Dades

robindch wrote: »

Down on yer knees folks!

Were mods, not clergy! :pac: