.22 Semi Auto Tactical

GreatGayHunter

Anybody have a .22 Semi Auto Tactical, OR changed the Stock on RUGER 10/22, any problem getting a cert. ect??

AR Conversion Kit for a 10/22 with Handguard and Butt Stock




Mossberg Tactical 22


Colt M4 Ops 22 caliber


SMITH & WESSON’S M&P15-22 Rifle


Ruger SR-22

http://www.ruger.com/products/sr22/index.html

G.G.H.

juice1304

i would'nt bother sure it would be restricted, pistol grip and a telescopic stock.
i can't think of a reason to give the chief for needing it when a stock 10/22 dose the same.
although i'd love an ar.:D

tac foley

juice1304 wrote: »

i would'nt bother sure it would be restricted, pistol grip and a telescopic stock.
i can't think of a reason to give the chief for needing it when a stock 10/22 dose the same.
although i'd love an ar.:D

THE one to get is the brand-new Walther-Umarex Heckler & Koch 416 rimfire. The Colt repro has had a really bad recent press, well-deserved if the many posts on it are true. But the H&K seems to have them all beat into a cocked hat.

Have a look at it on Youtube and make up your own minds.

Sadly, I doubt you'll ever see any of then in the RoI, but you never know! The real villains don't use rimfire copies, do they?

tac

gunhappy_ie

juice1304 wrote: »

i would'nt bother sure it would be restricted, pistol grip and a telescopic stock.
i can't think of a reason to give the chief for needing it when a stock 10/22 dose the same.
although i'd love an ar.:D

juice1304 wrote: »

i would'nt bother sure it would be restricted, pistol grip and a telescopic stock.

Actually its not restricted because of teh stock and pistol grip. The rifle is classed as restricted solely because of its mag capacity. however if buying through a competant dealer (if available) lower cap mags can be sorced or the origional mag can be pinned.

gunhappy_ie

tac foley wrote: »

THE one to get is the brand-new Walther-Umarex Heckler & Koch 416 rimfire. The Colt repro has had a really bad recent press, well-deserved if the many posts on it are true. But the H&K seems to have them all beat into a cocked hat.

Have a look at it on Youtube and make up your own minds.

Sadly, I doubt you'll ever see any of then in the RoI, but you never know! The real villains don't use rimfire copies, do they?

tac

Brimmer .22s have been around in ireland for some time now. ive heard varing stories about them but the biggest problem is that firing pins broke... guess why :P:P:P

As for any other type of AR clone in .22 they are readily available in euope so they can be gotten here but its a matter of a customer either ordering it on or a dealer taking a change and buying "something different" in the hope that it will sell.

tac foley

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

Brimmer .22s have been around in ireland for some time now. ive heard varing stories about them but the biggest problem is that firing pins broke... guess why :P:P:P

As for any other type of AR clone in .22 they are readily available in euope so they can be gotten here but its a matter of a customer either ordering it on or a dealer taking a change and buying "something different" in the hope that it will sell.

That's great so.

How many of you here have got one?

tac

gunhappy_ie

tac foley wrote: »

That's great so.

How many of you here have got one?

tac

Unfortunatly not every firearms owner in Ireland is persent on this forum.

However I know of 4 such rifles in the hands of licenced holders as non resticted rifles.

I actually converted 1 to M4 spec for a guy.

tac foley

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

Unfortunatly not every firearms owner in Ireland is persent on this forum.

However I know of 4 such rifles in the hands of licenced holders as non resticted rifles.

I actually converted 1 to M4 spec for a guy.

Thank you, I'm well aware that not every firearms owner in Ireland is present on the forum - my question was aimed at those who were. I'd like to see the job you made on the M-4 look-alike, if you have any images.

TIA

tac

Grizzly 45

Wouldnt say many,proably because they are [1]pretty new on the market in Europe and the US,and TBH,Ireland is in a backwater for most things especially when it comes to firearms.[2] proably expensive to what they are to import [3] people are proably scared off anything that looks like it is not conventional,so therefore it mustnt be easy to liscense,or will be classified as an assault rifle by our superior knowledgeable ballistics experts,for whom everything is tactical and deadly....:rolleyes:[4] Hence not many gun dealers stocking them ,if at all.

Should also add,that the S&W model is having some sort of difficulty with export from the USA,as well.So it wont be showing up much over here.

It wasn't me!

They're restricted by virtue of the fact that they resemble assault rifles. (I know this is the stupidest criterion in the whole bloody SI, but anyone who tries to argue they don't fit it is going to find themselves in a bucket of trouble)

Grizzly 45

Didnt realise they had select fire then!:D
BTW after perusing the Garda guidelines,[which as the Gardai themselves say are "only guidelines";):rolleyes:].They would be restricted if they have over ten shots,not because of their features which according to the guidelines make them more dangerous and less accurate.:rolleyes::rolleyes:.
No problem there,then So a 30.06 Garand is then less dangerous than an AR15 because of its looks???:rolleyes::rolleyes:.Ya gotta wonder where these people got their training,if at all.

tac foley

It wasn't me! wrote: »

They're restricted by virtue of the fact that they resemble assault rifles. (I know this is the stupidest criterion in the whole bloody SI, but anyone who tries to argue they don't fit it is going to find themselves in a bucket of trouble)

That's a great pity - they are, as I'm certain you appreciate, great fun and designed to use up all the planet's spare .22 stuff in a very short space of time. One of our sunday morning club members has the GSG-5 and easily gets through between 500 and a 1000 in a couple of hours...especially with 'helpers'.... ;=)

The SIG522 is the latest to be common here - not seen any of the others yet but I'm looking to get the H&K model if the price is right.

tac

tac foley

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Didnt realise they had select fire then!:D

They DO.

You can select semi-auto, or none. ;=)

tac

gunhappy_ie

tac foley wrote: »

Thank you, I'm well aware that not every firearms owner in Ireland is present on the forum - my question was aimed at those who were. I'd like to see the job you made on the M-4 look-alike, if you have any images.

TIA

tac

Sorry.. i thought the question was directed at me .. :P:P:P:P tis gettin late.

unfortunatly i dont have pics and it was about 5 years ago. simple do... cut and recrown the barrel... there is no gas tube length to worry about.

A barrel sleeve had to be made up so that the front site would fit back on and that the barrel would have the same diameter to the muzzle flash. the sleve was tight enough to be beat (:P) on nd not work loose.... rifle reassembled with new handguards (airsoft i think) after refinish.

gunhappy_ie

It wasn't me! wrote: »

They're restricted by virtue of the fact that they resemble assault rifles. (I know this is the stupidest criterion in the whole bloody SI, but anyone who tries to argue they don't fit it is going to find themselves in a bucket of trouble)

restricted list defines an assault rifle as a rifle being able to function in SA and FA

Or rifles that resemble such rifles...

These .22s dont have that look or capability so as long as there mags hold a max of 10... alls well .. its non restricted

It wasn't me!

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

restricted list defines an assault rifle as a rifle being able to function in SA and FA

Or rifles that resemble such rifles...

These .22s dont have that look or capability so as long as there mags hold a max of 10... alls well .. its non restricted

Rifles like the ones in the OP? Yeah, they look like assault rifles. It's as simple as that. You can argue about different sizes or weights and other small details, but simply put, you'd get crucified in any court in the country if you tried to argue that it didn't really resemble an assault rifle on those grounds.

Tackleberrywho

Very handy for "certain" jobs

bunny shooter

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

..............These .22s dont have that look ... alls well .. its non restricted

:eek: You have got to be joking

tac foley

I hafta say that the OP's original choice look very, uh, black. Checking with my FEO this morning [a VERY friendly and helpful gentleman he is too] has shown that there has not been even one recorded criminal use of ANY firearm that looks like this, no matter if it be rimfire or centre-fire [yes we DO have centre-fire stuff that looks like this - see note at the end of this drivel] since records began here in UK.

My pal Dave has half a dozen of the centre-fire rifles of similar appearance, in different calibres of course - all tricked out to look absolutely ludicrous, with the four 'Ls' - lights, lamps, levels and lasers, as well as bipods, monopods and optical and non-optical sights, back-to-back magazines, muzzle-brakes on some, moderators on others - a total hoot to shoot, as well.

And that, gentlemen, is what it's all about, isn't it?

It's good to know that your have the rimfire stuff, even though they are restricted in ways I find hard to comprehend.

For what WE get up to - have a look at -

http://www.bradleyarms.com/ [another Irishman, BTW]

http://www.southern-gun.co.uk/ [not an Irishman]

tac

GreatGayHunter

Sorted So....If I get a 10/22 for €100-€150 and order the below:

Nordic Components AR22 Stock Kit complete with Nordic Components Hand Guard, 6-Position Adjustable Butt Stock, Trigger Guard Gap Filler, and AR Hand Grip. All hardware included to convert your Ruger 10/22 into an AR-style rifle. Mid-length or rifle-length hand guard available. No modifications necessary - bolts right on!

and a few etrxa parts from
http://www.bradleyarms.com/ [another Irishman, BTW]

I could have a sweet ride.

Next ?? do I need to apply for an export license for the Nordic Components, as has been suggested by another UK Supplier??

Then after all that, I'll be shunned on the Range as been a weekend Rambo / Goth with an Assault Rifle……Bla,Bla,Bla
Wait a minute!!!!! It’s a RIFLE range the last time I checked……
What to do, what to do,
So Mr http://www.bradleyarms.com/ [another Irishman, BTW], can we sort some thing out??

G.G.H.

Sparks

Er, GGH, if you do that you'll technically be going from an unrestricted firearm to a restricted one, so you'd need to change your licence accordingly. It's a stupid law, but unfortunately it's the second word there that you have to worry about

gunhappy_ie

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Rifles like the ones in the OP? Yeah, they look like assault rifles. It's as simple as that. You can argue about different sizes or weights and other small details, but simply put, you'd get crucified in any court in the country if you tried to argue that it didn't really resemble an assault rifle on those grounds.

You cant get cursified in a court if you know what your talkina about. There is no neew for a firearm like this to go to court in the first place but IF in the event one was to find themselves in that situation you make your case with the FACTS:

1.You describe the definition of an "assault rifle" clearly stating the obvious that the .22 being purchared does not have the FA capability.

2. If yout applyin as a non restricted firearm that the mag has been plugged to 10 max.

3. Not only is the rifle externally different internally its a complete galaxy away from what an "assault rifle" would look like.

What would happen if a shooter couldnt use a straighter stock on his 10/22 with a 5 round mag because of eg arthritis ... Are you saying that the rifle is restricted ???

Sorry but its not !

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Very handy for "certain" jobs

Yep tricked out 10/22s or semi auto .22s are great fun....

Yes people I said fun ... we are allowed to have fun as long as its responsible !

That tac would be resiticted unless you had the magazing plugged.

bunny shooter wrote: »

:eek: You have got to be joking

Nope.. Im serious....


Thats my opininon as an Armourer !

GreatGayHunter wrote: »

Sorted So....If I get a 10/22 for €100-€150 and order the below:

Nordic Components AR22 Stock Kit complete with Nordic Components Hand Guard, 6-Position Adjustable Butt Stock, Trigger Guard Gap Filler, and AR Hand Grip. All hardware included to convert your Ruger 10/22 into an AR-style rifle. Mid-length or rifle-length hand guard available. No modifications necessary - bolts right on!

and a few etrxa parts from
http://www.bradleyarms.com/ [another Irishman, BTW]

I could have a sweet ride.

Next ?? do I need to apply for an export license for the Nordic Components, as has been suggested by another UK Supplier??

Then after all that, I'll be shunned on the Range as been a weekend Rambo / Goth with an Assault Rifle……Bla,Bla,Bla
Wait a minute!!!!! It’s a RIFLE range the last time I checked……
What to do, what to do,
So Mr http://www.bradleyarms.com/ [another Irishman, BTW], can we sort some thing out??

G.G.H.

Er .... you lost me on that 1 but if its registered as a non restricted rifle so long as its not a high cap mag or a bullpup shock you put on ... you can put a picatinny mounted microwave if you like !

It wasn't me!

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

You cant get cursified in a court if you know what your talkina about. There is no neew for a firearm like this to go to court in the first place but IF in the event one was to find themselves in that situation you make your case with the FACTS:

1.You describe the definition of an "assault rifle" clearly stating the obvious that the .22 being purchared does not have the FA capability.

2. If yout applyin as a non restricted firearm that the mag has been plugged to 10 max.

3. Not only is the rifle externally different internally its a complete galaxy away from what an "assault rifle" would look like.

What would happen if a shooter couldnt use a straighter stock on his 10/22 with a 5 round mag because of eg arthritis ... Are you saying that the rifle is restricted ???

1. It still resembles it.

2. Irrelevant if in the opinion of the court it resembles an assault rifle.

3. Want to bet the court is going to see the distinction?

And to the last part, yes, it is, but that would be a reason to license the restricted firearm, as you've proven that an unrestricted firearm is not a suitable firearm for the individual and their purpose. Look, those tactical looking .22 semis are restricted, make no bones about it. If you want clarification, go down to your chief super (who is of course the arbiter in your case), hand them a copy of the legislation with that section highlighted and show them the rifle and ask them whether in their opinion it's unrestricted.

Tackleberrywho

Since i do not have the 10/22 anymore it's a non issue.

I had 3 x25 round mags, a speed loader and endless supplies of cci stingers at the time.

But accurate range was poor. ~1" at 50 yards was the norm.

Just wondering would this be restricted, as it looks pretty, not military
Sorry pic to big to show

http://www.jimsgunsupply.com/DuraCoat/dc/DuraCoat_PINK_AR_SIGHT_OVERCROP_030808.jpg

firefly08

These .22s dont have that look

its a complete galaxy away from what an "assault rifle" would look like.

I'm curious to know what an "assault rifle" looks like in your opinion - can you post a pic or a link?

gunhappy_ie

It wasn't me! wrote: »

1. It still resembles it.

2. Irrelevant if in the opinion of the court it resembles an assault rifle.

3. Want to bet the court is going to see the distinction?

And to the last part, yes, it is, but that would be a reason to license the restricted firearm, as you've proven that an unrestricted firearm is not a suitable firearm for the individual and their purpose. Look, those tactical looking .22 semis are restricted, make no bones about it. If you want clarification, go down to your chief super (who is of course the arbiter in your case), hand them a copy of the legislation with that section highlighted and show them the rifle and ask them whether in their opinion it's unrestricted.

In the interest of fairnesss to the OP and to keep the thread on topic I will respond with a pm. Should however any1 feel the want to continue the off topic then be all means start a new post.

Sparks

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Just wondering would this be restricted, as it looks pretty, not military

It'd be restricted allright, it's a semiauto centerfire according to the website...

Grizzly 45

Just wondering would this be restricted, as it looks pretty, not military
Sorry pic to big to show

http://www.jimsgunsupply.com/DuraCoat/dc/DuraCoat_PINK_AR_SIGHT_OVERCROP_030808.jpg

:eek::eek:GAHHHH! My EYES,My Eyes!! They Burn!!The pain! The pain!!

Go away and put a Health Warning on that would you???:D

cavan shooter

I recently purchased a 10/22 deluxe, which is great fun, a hoot to shoot, a dinger on wabbits and has less recdoil than a shotgun but similiar groupings:rolleyes:. Any tricking i've done is internal, oh I did by a holo sight for it (I dont know why it was an impulse buy:o).

I actually wouldnt be into the mean black looking wanna buy an m4 but....IMO its like trying to get a 1995 1.1 Ford fiesta to look and sound like a subaru.:D

Love the 10/22 rifle for what it is.....

bunny shooter

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

You cant get cursified in a court if you know what your talkina about.

You obviously don't have much experience of any legal systems so

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

Thats my opininon as an Armourer !

Some poor lad gets caught with a tricked out AR 15 looking 10/22 and ends up in court. Gardai say the rifle is restricted and he has an unrestricted licence. Lads defence.............my armourer says it OK despite what you legal eagles think

I can see a judge being really impressed with that answer

gunhappy I think the piece you need to focus on is the reference to the resemblence of a rifle to an assault rifle part of the description. That's loose enough to cover everything from the "I don't like the look of that" Garda response to the actual .22 clones & copies of actual full bore "assault rifles". It's like being arrested by the Gardai for a "breech of the peace". If they can get ya for nothing else they'll get ya on that.

Grizzly 45

bunny shooter wrote: »

You obviously don't have much experience of any legal systems so

In fairness BS he does! I wouldnt have used him otherwise.;):D

gunhappy I think the piece you need to focus on is the reference to the resemblence of a rifle to an assault rifle part of the description. That's loose enough to cover everything from the "I don't like the look of that" Garda response to the actual .22 clones & copies of actual full bore "assault rifles". It's like being arrested by the Gardai for a "breech of the peace". If they can get ya for nothing else they'll get ya on that

Trouble is..What DOES an actual "assault rifle " look like?????;)
This is too general a term.Its like saying a "tractor" in the famous Revenue Vs converted Toyota Hi lux in the 1980s.
We all know what a tractor looks like in common everyday parlance ,a mucky yoke on a farm with two big wheels and two smaller ones in the front.BUT the law hasnt got a defination of it being of that description.
So a farmer converted a hilux with balloon tyres,mounted a boom sprayer permantly on the back bed and used it for a low pressure ground sprayer.Reason he wanted this was as an his fields were miles apart it was a quicker and more efficent way of spraying multiple fields of wheat,and because he was proably poor too:rolleyes:.Sure enough Revenue got hold of it and charged him with using green diesel in a non agricultural vechicle.However it was sucessfully argued that as there is NO clear defination of what an agricultural tractor is in law,the case was found for the defence.Pointing out als that it had been converted permantly,was a two seater vechicle,and would nowadays be taxed as a "plant vechicle"

So unless there is a clear defination as to what an "assault rifle" looks like in Irish law,this is very wide open again.The Garda guidelines and whatnot go on about "features" and mag capacity.But they DO NOT define EXACTLY what it is.
TBH the easiest out of this is, stick a thumbhole stock on it,no defination of those under Irish law as to their exact dimensions,or what they are.;),and for high cap, buy a bunch of ten rounders and a roll of duct tape.

Also as some new accurate bolt action rifles have folding stocks and are more accurate according to the gist of the Garda guidelines.They should also be restricted,as no doubt they are super accurate and more therefore deadly in a more compact package.Not to mind they have pistol grips too.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

bunny shooter

From my personal experience (it was a civil matter) talking sense and telling the truth just isn't enough Glad his expertise done the trick for ya but was it the deciding factor?

Grizzly I agree that the law is written arseways but there's a reason for that If it was straight forward we'd know what we could/could not have. This way the Gardai get to interpret it whatever way they want. If a shooter takes a case against a refusal he will pay the price to get clarification even better in their eyes if he gets nailed and they can revoke his licence/s. If the Gardai don't get the desired outcome they get the law changed :eek:

Grizzly 45

bunny shooter wrote: »

From my personal experience (it was a civil matter) talking sense and telling the truth just isn't enough Glad his expertise done the trick for ya but was it the deciding factor?

Well, from MY experiance of being in court,telling the truth is just fine!As that way you can NEVER be caught out.If you embellish,warp or whatever,your evidence you WILL be caught.
Why do you think it has been mentioned about Insp Brooks interrgation methods in the courts here???He was /is trying to catch people out in the box about their firearms.
Dont ever know did he...We never got that far.:rolleyes:

Grizzly I agree that the law is written arseways but there's a reason for that If it was straight forward we'd know what we could/could not have. This way the Gardai get to interpret it whatever way they want. If a shooter takes a case against a refusal he will pay the price to get clarification even better in their eyes if he gets nailed and they can revoke his licence/s.

you know its funny.EVERY country in the EU or the US can draw up EXACTLY what is permissible or not for their citzens to own in firearms and weaponary,and describe EXACTLY what firearm is allowed or not.In plain understandable legalese of their respective lingo
Bar here!!:mad::mad:.Why is that exactly??

FACT is,Tell the truth,there is nothing they can do.If you are not willing to fight a corrupt power to keep your gun or whatever,then dont come crying to us.Somtimes everyone has to draw a line in the sand and say enough!

If the Gardai don't get the desired outcome they get the law changed :eek:

If you have a symapthetic anti gun justice minister that is.And the Gardai are finding that the LAW APPLIES TO THEM AS MUCH AS IT DOES TO US .Especially the firearms acts!

bunny shooter

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Well, from MY experiance of being in court,telling the truth is just fine!As that way you can NEVER be caught out.If you embellish,warp or whatever,your evidence you WILL be caught.
Why do you think it has been mentioned about Insp Brooks interrgation methods in the courts here???He was /is trying to catch people out in the box about their firearms.
Dont ever know did he...We never got that far.:rolleyes:

The truth is grand once the law doesn't allow for someones opinion to be deciding factor. I prefer black & white law, grey just costs too much

I don't understand what your reference to Insp. Brooks is about.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

you know its funny.EVERY country in the EU or the US can draw up EXACTLY what is permissible or not for their citzens to own in firearms and weaponary,and describe EXACTLY what firearm is allowed or not.In plain understandable legalese of their respective lingo
Bar here!!:mad::mad:.Why is that exactly??

If you read my previous post I explain my opinion on why they have vague laws

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

.......If you are not willing to fight a corrupt power to keep your gun or whatever,then dont come crying to us.Somtimes everyone has to draw a line in the sand and say enough!

I didn't fight my moderator refusal which I assume is what you're referring to. I didn't because my wife didn't want me to. And for peace & harmony at home I refrained from taking a case. She is afraid there will be reprisals against her and me from the Gardai, simple as that ! So your noble idea of standing up to the 'oppressors' in my case was stopped in it's tracks by the fear of reprisals from those who are supposed to be in the position of protecting me and my rights. Nice country we live in, isn't it !

And I haven't "come crying" to you or anyone else. I simply reported it. Same as you did with your victory over the 'oppressors'

And believe me I have my proverbial sabre drawn and am about to draw that proverbial line in the proverbial sand too

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

If you have a symapthetic anti gun justice minister that is.And the Gardai are finding that the LAW APPLIES TO THEM AS MUCH AS IT DOES TO US .Especially the firearms acts!

And if anyone thinks for one minute that his replacement will reverse anything he has done ye will be disappointed

CJhaughey

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

EVERY country in the EU or the US can draw up EXACTLY what is permissible or not for their citzens to own in firearms and weaponary,and describe EXACTLY what firearm is allowed or not.In plain understandable legalese of their respective lingo
Bar here!!:mad::mad:.Why is that exactly??

Its the same disease that has kept reloading from being a *mainstream* shooting activity. The fear that if something goes wrong someone somewhere will be blamed. (although not accountable)

tac foley

bunny shooter wrote: »

... She is afraid there will be reprisals against her and me from the Gardai, simple as that !

Of all the numerous unpleasant things I have read on this site over the last year or so, that comment has to be the most appalling statement imaginable.

For a law-abiding citizen to declare that she is afraid of the national police force is NOT something we expect to hear about in Western Europe.

I'm stunned.

tac

sfakiaman

tac foley wrote: »

Of all the numerous unpleasant things I have read on this site over the last year or so, that comment has to be the most appalling statement imaginable.

For a law-abiding citizen to declare that she is afraid of the national police force is NOT something we expect to hear about in Western Europe.

I'm stunned.

tac

Welcome to the real world. Your career in the military has probably shielded you from some of the realities of civilian life. I mean no disrespect in saying that but I've been on both sides of that equation.

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

So unless there is a clear defination as to what an "assault rifle" looks like in Irish law,this is very wide open again.

From the Restricted List SI:

“assault rifles” means—
(a) rifles capable of functioning as semi-automatic firearms and as automatic
firearms,
(b) firearms that resemble such rifles;

In other words, it's completely down to the PTB, whether that be in the form of a Garda Superintendent, Garda Chief Superintendent, or the District Court Judge. Pick any select-fire rifle out there with a fully automatic mode available on it, and if your rifle looks like any of those, then for the purposes of the Act, it's an assault rifle.

It's stupid, but it's the law... for now, at least. Better to change it than to butt heads against it.

Sparks

bunny shooter wrote: »

And if anyone thinks for one minute that his replacement will reverse anything he has done ye will be disappointed

Why?
He's reversed things his predecessors did, as well as things he did, which would have been even more harmful to our sports if they'd gone ahead. Not to mention that his predecessors all changed things their predecessors had done as well.

Sparks

CJhaughey wrote: »

Its the same disease that has kept reloading from being a *mainstream* shooting activity.

So far.
There's a pilot project going ahead with 30 or so shooters in the Midlands, they have all the facilities built and ready to go, and it's hard to see the PTB not rolling out reloading after a successful pilot project like that. And after that comes black powder shooting. And after that comes whatever's next, and bit by bit, the job gets done.
It's not fast; it's not sexy; it's not shouty; and no-one gets to play the hero; but it sticks when you do it this way.

Sparks

tac foley wrote: »

For a law-abiding citizen to declare that she is afraid of the national police force is NOT something we expect to hear about in Western Europe.

No offence intended tac, but many innocent Irish people in the UK during the 1980s and early 1990s were far more afraid of the UK police and with good reason. And it's not even limited to Ireland and the UK - being afraid of unprofessional or even unethical and illegal conduct by a national police force is something that every western state out there can say their citizens suffer from, from America to Ireland to the UK to continental european countries.

dCorbus

many innocent Irish people in the UK during the 1980s and early 1990s were far more afraid of the UK police and with good reason

Major +1

And it's not even limited to Ireland and the UK

Ever been stopped by the BGS when you've forgotten to put your Aufenthaltserlaubnis in your backarse pocket?:eek::eek:
Now, that's a butt-clenching moment to make one very fearful of a national police force!!!!

And then there's always what happened to the McBrearty Family in Donegal to make one VERY fearful of what can and does go wrong when someone in a position of power / authority decides to make ones life a tad more difficult.

afraid of the national police force is NOT something we expect to hear about in Western Europe

You're correct: It's not something we expect to hear about in Western Europe, but unfortunately there have been cases to indicate that the Reality is on occasion not as neat and tidy as our Expectations.

Grizzly 45

[

QUOTE=bunny shooter;68379367]The truth is grand once the law doesn't allow for someones opinion to be deciding factor. I prefer black & white law, grey just costs too much

It is opinion not LAW.And if opinion was a deciding factor in law we would be still burning witches at the stake outside the four courts.:p
Opinion is there to suggest merits or demerits of a paticular problem,be it law or otherwise.

I don't understand what your reference to Insp. Brooks is about.

The fact that when you are in the Witness box,he goesover the same points again,again and again,goes off on a different tangent and ten mins later comes back to the point you have explained ten times before.It is a standard interrogation police trick.If you are porkie pie ing,you have to have the details dead pat all the time .Any slight deviance and they use it as a lever into the chink of your armour of the story. Crude but effective,

If you read my previous post I explain my opinion on why they have vague laws

I did,and I dont agree with it,and thats why there many challanges to it as well.

I didn't fight my moderator refusal which I assume is what you're referring to. I didn't because my wife didn't want me to. And for peace & harmony at home I refrained from taking a case. She is afraid there will be reprisals against her and me from the Gardai, simple as that ! So your noble idea of standing up to the 'oppressors' in my case was stopped in it's tracks by the fear of reprisals from those who are supposed to be in the position of protecting me and my rights. Nice country we live in, isn't it !

Indeed,she is very right.That was my mums opinion too,until she discoverd she was refused her liscenses after 25 years.Suddenly a 70 year old woman was suddenly a
danger to the public,and "other" reasons:mad::mad::mad:. VERY BAD move on their part..For somone who grew up in a real police state ,namely Berlin in the 3rd Reich,she is well aware of what a police state is like and can do,and always has lived of dont attract trouble to yourself.This was the final straw for her.
Yeah,I know that there is the chance of "reprisals" But the more public it becomes the better.I know for a fact.I've been targeted because of my more outspoken critiques of the Gardai/DOJ here on Boards.ie.I know it affected a dealership application and me joining a club in the Limerick reigion because of it.It was also no doubt why my mothers applications were refused as well.But if you dont stand up and say this is happening
it will continue.Give a bully an inch he will take a mile.

And I haven't "come crying" to you or anyone else. I simply reported it. Same as you did with your victory over the 'oppressors'
[/QUOTE]

Bunny ,NONE of my previous posts were aimed at you personally...I was speaking in the broadest terms possible.Please dont takeit as a personal comment on your caseso apologies for any misunderstanding..

And believe me I have my proverbial sabre drawn and am about to draw that proverbial line in the proverbial sand too

Good stuff....:)

And if anyone thinks for one minute that his replacement will reverse anything he has done ye will be disappointed

As Sparks pointed out,there is always a good possibility of that happening,butI would tend to agrre with youon this ,not so much as he will say"Ah sorry there lads,all a big mistake.No bother assault rifles and handguns for all."But rather keep moving it back down to the bottom of the IN tray on his desk when it reaches the bottom of the pile so some other poor sod can deal with it when his arse is behind the desk. Thats the reason this whole sorry mess came up IMO in the frirst place,as no one wanted to face up to the fact that Irish citizens property was in Govt hands,quasi illegaly since 1972,and the main reason for holding onto it was long gone,and no one wanted to bell that cat and give the stuff back out.Also because your main "colleuge" in the DOJ happens to be the Garda Cheif comissioner,and he "advises" you on whats happening out there.So if he" advises " you that this would be a bad political move on your part as there will be massacres aplenty within ten mins of the stuff being given back..And youknow sweet FA about guns...Who are you to argue??
Ergo we have a police officer controlling a minister,thus we have a police controlled state.

rrpc

bunny shooter wrote: »

Grizzly I agree that the law is written arseways but there's a reason for that If it was straight forward we'd know what we could/could not have. This way the Gardai get to interpret it whatever way they want. If a shooter takes a case against a refusal he will pay the price to get clarification even better in their eyes if he gets nailed and they can revoke his licence/s. If the Gardai don't get the desired outcome they get the law changed :eek:

Seriously bunny, that's not the way law is written. It gets drafted with a particular goal in mind, gets re-drafted a number of times and goes to the AGs office. Invariably it comes back to the drafters with so much red pen on it that it has to be almost started again. This goes on for an interminable length of time until eventually it gets sorted. By that time, if whoever originally drafted it had been out of the loop until they saw the finished article, they'd never recognise it.

If you don't believe this, get the draft of the ranges SI off the NASRPC or NTSA websites and save it on your computer. Keep it in cold storage until the final SI is published and compare the two.

I guarantee (without any prior knowledge) that they will be like chalk and cheese.

Grizzly 45

Sparks wrote: »

No offence intended tac, but many innocent Irish people in the UK during the 1980s and early 1990s were far more afraid of the UK police and with good reason.

AND it is STILL Alive and WELL in the UK to THIS VERY DAY!!
Forget all this stuff about "peace process" suff and other such.We are alll still very much"Paddy the IRA Man" off to no good in the UK.:mad::mad:.
It is now much worse under the UK prevention of terrorism act 2008.You can now literally "disapper" in the system under that act without recourse to legal council or them even informing your next of kin that you are dertained!!!.Wouldnt set foot in the UK ever again if I was Irish!!!:eek:
This is coming BTW from a friend and colleuge who I would trust implicity 100% who just very recently had the misfortune of ending up being grilled by the UK counter terrorism police and detained for three days incognito.
You wouldnt belive it untill you heard it.!!!!!:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

bunny shooter

Grizzly, no hassle, we're all the same band of tinkers so to speak

In a previous job I did interview (interrogation) courses :P Been on the recieving end in a civil court too. Like ya say if your telling the truth they can't catch you out

Tac, regarding the wife's fear of reprisal, whether it's true or not her fear is real.

GreatGayHunter

Couldn't help myself........

Tack Driver class of 101.

G.G.H.

gunhappy_ie

GreatGayHunter wrote: »

Couldn't help myself........

Tack Driver class of 101.

G.G.H.

Nice .. I see youve got a eye for designer gear :P:P:P

GreatGayHunter

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

Nice .. I see youve got a eye for designer gear :P:P:P

Concerned about the stock, was looking for Magpul PRS big money for .22

Dear Santa....... 2015 maybe:rolleyes:

G.G.H

gunhappy_ie

GreatGayHunter wrote: »

Concerned about the stock, was looking for Magpul PRS big money for .22

Dear Santa....... 2015 maybe:rolleyes:

G.G.H

not at all... :P all the parts will swap over when you come over to the dark side and get a semi auto .223

GreatGayHunter

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

not at all... :P all the parts will swap over when you come over to the dark side and get a semi auto .223

You mean....... I can Play with the Big Boys...... Dear Mr. BushMaster.....( In Camo)....

G.G.H.