Has anyone tried to sell without an Auctioneer?

Freiheit

If so can anyone offer any advice? Do auctioneers really have a networks that are worth paying for or would I be as well of to go direct to the newspapers, daft.ie or myhome.ie?

Also as the property market is weak here could it be a good idea to advertise abroad? ..thinking of trying to advertise in Germany/Great Britain/USA.

crabfeet

Freiheit wrote: »

Also as the property market is weak here could it be a good idea to advertise abroad? ..thinking of trying to advertise in Germany/Great Britain/USA.

Unless your house is ultra special there is no desire among any foreigners to buy a piece of a weak market.
If you even think of foreign advertising, you need an auctioneer. Auctioneers do not have networks. They have experience and knowledge of the market. How much to ask for, what market segment to pitch at, how to handle potential troublemaker buyers, handle awkward solicitors and surveyors. A good auctioneer will get a good result. Most owmers make a mess of it. I know auctioneers who pay another auctioneer to sell their own houses. It is very difficult to be sufficiently detached when selling your own house.

D3PO

crabfeet wrote: »

Auctioneers do not have networks.

They have experience and knowledge of the market.

How much to ask for,

what market segment to pitch at,

how to handle potential troublemaker buyers,

handle awkward solicitors and surveyors.

A good auctioneer will get a good result.

Most owmers make a mess of it. .

what a load of manure.

what exactly is knowledge of the market ? Were in the age of technology its not hard to track the market yourself

what to ask for again very easy to track asking prices and work from there. its hardly rocket science.

what segment to pitch at. are you having a laugh ? Like EA's pitch to a segment. They put an ad on daft and myhome and in thier window. What pitching is involved in doing that ?

troublemaker buyers. They have no involvement at all once it gets handed over to the solicitors. If they were such experts at troublemaker buyers why do sale agreeds fall though ? Surely their experts and this would never happen :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Your either an EA or good friends with one. The fact is they are overglorified sales reps. Who honestly do nothing that the normal savvy, well informed person cannot do for themselves.

Dymo

If I was a buyer I'd prefer to buy from an Auctioneer than messing with a home owner who doesn't really know what their at and get insulted if you offer less than the stupid high price. I'm sure it wouldn't be that hard to sell by owner but I know friends who tried to deal with owners and they found it impossible. Also what type of auctioneer would get another auctioneer to sell their own property surely their the one who knows the facilities of the area and house.

Freiheit

I'm not at all convinced about Auctioneers. I see nothing that they can do that I couldn't do myself.

Even worse there appears to be a a clique between various property websites and auctioneers as most will not accept private sellers, the most obvious being MyHome.ie Shamefuly manufacturing business for auctioneers by forcing people to act through them. Mutual back scratching and screwing the rest of us.

No formal qualifications are required to act as an auctioneer.....a mirage of expertise.....I agree with D3PO

crabfeet

D3PO wrote: »

what a load of manure.

what exactly is knowledge of the market ? Were in the age of technology its not hard to track the market yourself

what to ask for again very easy to track asking prices and work from there. its hardly rocket science.

Asking prices may not be realistic. Owners often assume that their house has to be worth more than some other house for no good reason. What people are paying is a lot more important than what people are asking. Asking prices do not disclose the condition of the property either.

D3PO wrote: »

what segment to pitch at. are you having a laugh ? Like EA's pitch to a segment. They put an ad on daft and myhome and in thier window. What pitching is involved in doing that ?

Wording the ad. If you are targetting single buyers why talk about all the schools in the area? Try targetting investors in the current market and see where it gets you.

D3PO wrote: »

troublemaker buyers. They have no involvement at all once it gets handed over to the solicitors. If they were such experts at troublemaker buyers why do sale agreeds fall though ? Surely their experts and this would never happen :rolleyes::rolleyes:

A lot happens before it goes to solicitors. there are messer buyers who will work on an owner selling on his own and cause massive grief. EAs often have to get involved after.

D3PO wrote: »

Your either an EA or good friends with one. The fact is they are overglorified sales reps. Who honestly do nothing that the normal savvy, well informed person cannot do for themselves.

I am not an EA. I have done work for some. One who knows what they are doing is invaluable. There are a lot of poor EAs out there. they could seel during the boom and now can't hack it. the o/p is going DIY. It is obvious he has never negotiated a house sale. He thinks he will save money. Good luck to him.

Freiheit

Shane Ross last year and other years referred to Auctioneers as "A totally illegitimate profession"....I haven't decided definitely not to act through one but am seeking to ascertain what, if any benefit there would be. I am open to being convinced.........

Myhome.ie I feel are shameful, a blatant case of 'cliqueism'.

3DataModem

Freiheit wrote: »

Even worse there appears to be a a clique between various property websites and auctioneers as most will not accept private sellers, the most obvious being MyHome.ie Shamefuly manufacturing business for auctioneers by forcing people to act through them. Mutual back scratching and screwing the rest of us.

Er... What? The big auctioneers set up myhome (Sherry Fitz, Gunne and Douglas Newman Good) to create a shared property advertising platform. This was a great idea and reasonably well done. They then flogged it to the Irish Times for 50 million squid at the height of the boom. Genius.

You call it cliquish? They are a business... If you desperately want to be on myhome then just find the cheapest auctioneer you can and get them to put it on myhome.

D3PO

crabfeet wrote: »

Asking prices may not be realistic. Owners often assume that their house has to be worth more than some other house for no good reason. What people are paying is a lot more important than what people are asking. Asking prices do not disclose the condition of the property either.

Wording the ad. If you are targetting single buyers why talk about all the schools in the area? Try targetting investors in the current market and see where it gets you.


A lot happens before it goes to solicitors. there are messer buyers who will work on an owner selling on his own and cause massive grief. EAs often have to get involved after.


I am not an EA. I have done work for some. One who knows what they are doing is invaluable. There are a lot of poor EAs out there. they could seel during the boom and now can't hack it. the o/p is going DIY. It is obvious he has never negotiated a house sale. He thinks he will save money. Good luck to him.

note i mentioned savvy individuals in my first post. Most sellers do not think their house is worth more. There is no accounting for idiots but if they use an EA they will insist on stupid prices anyway so the point is moot.

wording in the ad. Ah yes the amazing ]. NEW TO THE MARKET, PRICED TO SELL, EXCELLENT VALUE phrasiology crap they put up with. Again i revert to savvy. If you saw a similalr property with a good "pitch" its not very hard to plagurise it. Word cannot be intellectual property so this is perfectly legitimate.

theres not a lot that goes on before it goes to the solicitors its a very simple process.

You advertise to sell, somebody views. if they like the put in an offer. If your happy with the offer you tell them to drop a depoit over on acceptance of the offer. if you dont get the deposit you ignore their messing. if you get it you also get their solicitors details and you pass it onto your solicitor.

TA DA. If messing happens after this it would happen anyway. "messing" before cant happen unless somebody doesnt take a deposit and get solicitors details. Again I refer to being savvy.

EA's have no qualifications and are as expert as any joe bloggs. Fact is anybody can sell without them.

GerardKeating

Freiheit wrote: »

If so can anyone offer any advice? Do auctioneers really have a networks that are worth paying for or would I be as well of to go direct to the newspapers, daft.ie or myhome.ie?

Also as the property market is weak here could it be a good idea to advertise abroad? ..thinking of trying to advertise in Germany/Great Britain/USA.

Have you looked at the following sites

• Private Seller.
• 4salebyowner.
• sellityourself.

Ortiz

There's some harsh words here about EA's that are a little unjustified imo.

D3PO you make the common mistake of thinking that if you track asking prices you will be able to determine your value. Asking prices are not legitimate comparables, sale prices are. Who has more knowledge of what properties are selling for in the market that anyone else? EA's.

You also state that "EA's have no qualifications". Bit of a "manure" statement don't ya think? (to use your term!) There are honours level property degrees, IAVI qualifications, RICS qualifications, many auctioneers are qualified as chartered surveyors as well. Afaik every auctioneer office in Ireland has to have at least one member of staff with an IAVI qualification.

Once a property goes sale agreed the EA doesn't just sit back and twiddle his thumbs until the next property on his books sells (Ok some do). A good EA will speed up that process as much as they can and be the port of call for the buyer throughout this process. They are very much involved at this stage of the sale, just not as much as the solicitors.

What about the hours EA's put in? When solicitors, accountants etc. are clocking off at 5.30 EA's often work till 8 or 9 o clock Monday to Saturday. You might not respect the work they do but that doesn't mean they don't work hard doing it.

In the years leading into the boom every farmer and joe soap became an auctioneer. These idiots gave the profession a terrible name, and unfortunately there are still too many of these cowboys out there in the market, but there are genuine, hard working EA's out there that are only trying to make a living like anyone else.

Morgans

I know you set out to defend the profession but i think you are actually supporting D3PO argument. I got from it that it's the exceptional estate agent who will provide a service above and beyond what a savvy realistic and intelligent individual could do themselves.

Good luck to those who provide their services well and it is a shame that the good apples are being spoiled by the numerous rotten ones.

Friends trying to sell their house recently, three local estate agents came to have a look at their property, they were willing to go with the estage agent with the most realistic price, as they were eager to sell

1) doesnt do viewings or valuations outside 9 and 5
2) came to look at the house on a saturday, gave valuation, never followed up
3) very professional, gave valuation, got the business and the sale.

crabfeet

D3PO wrote: »

theres not a lot that goes on before it goes to the solicitors its a very simple process.

You advertise to sell, somebody views. if they like the put in an offer. If your happy with the offer you tell them to drop a depoit over on acceptance of the offer. if you dont get the deposit you ignore their messing. if you get it you also get their solicitors details and you pass it onto your solicitor.

Obviously you have never been involved in the sale of a house. An enormous amount goes on before it goes to solicitors.A deal has to be brokered. There are surveyors crawling all over the place for one thing. Someone views. They have to be evaluated. They might make an offer. With a lot of work they might increase it. They will do a survey. They will try and use the survey to get the price down. There may be another round of negotiation. Only after all that are deposits taken and solicitors instructed. After that solicitors may need to be chased.

The problem is as a buyer i would tend to assume that you as the seller are not using an EA because you were dissatisfied with the valuation you got from an EA and were hoping to get a better price yourself.

If some how your were able to make clear the reason you were not using an EA was because you just wanted to save the fees and that you were very realistic about the price, as i buyer i might think differently...but over all i would be reluctant to get in touch with a seller who wasn't using an EA.

ellejay

crabfeet wrote: »

Obviously you have never been involved in the sale of a house. An enormous amount goes on before it goes to solicitors.A deal has to be brokered. There are surveyors crawling all over the place for one thing. Someone views. They have to be evaluated. They might make an offer. With a lot of work they might increase it. They will do a survey. They will try and use the survey to get the price down. There may be another round of negotiation. Only after all that are deposits taken and solicitors instructed. After that solicitors may need to be chased.

I've posted before on this subject and can tell you from my experience, I'd deal with a homeowner anyday.

The only criteria needed to sell a house at the moment is a realisitic asking price.
Doesn't matter who waits there impatiently tapping their foot while prospective buyers look around.

From a buyers point of view,
"A deal has to be brokered" - yep, buyer makes offer,vendour accepts or declines, cut out the EA and all moves much quicker.

"There are surveyors crawling all over the place for one thing" - this will occur regardless who shows the house, the owner or estate agent.

"Someone views." - yep, the likes of myself, who would personally prefer the home owner to show actually.

"They have to be evaluated" -I'm assuming you mean trying to weed out the tyre kickers from the really interested? again, not rocket science.

"They might make an offer. With a lot of work they might increase it." -Hilarious, I'm quite sure a homeowner can also mysteriously introduce another intererested third party that's only too delighted to raise the bid by about 20k.

"They will try and use the survey to get the price down." - only if there's something wrong. And of course, i'm quite sure the homeowner can say No.

"There may be another round of negotiation." - How bad?

"After that solicitors may need to be chased." - yes by the homeowner, that ends up doing the chasing anyway.

Save your money OP, sell it yourself.

In my opinion, every word that comes out of an estate agents mouth is a lie, when they're not actually speaking, they're just thinking of their next lie.

The Good Agent

Full disclosure: I am in the estate agency business, but please don't hold that against me.

The sole purpose of an estate agent, from the horse's mouth, is to introduce the buyer to the seller. If you want to sell your property yourself, you have to ask yourself "Can I replicate this function?"

So, how do buyers find out about your property? Property listing website like Daft and "For Sale" boards. Very few purchases originate from newspaper listing and estate agent's shop windows so I wouldn't worry about them. The online listing can easily be replicated, but the "For Sale" board may take a bit more work.... but not much.

Digital printers will produce a 24" x 32" board for you for less than €60. All you need is a board design (use free paint software like Paint.net to do this) and send it to them. Then go to Woodies and buy a wooden pole, stick the pole and the board together and Bob's your Uncle. Note: council's are cracking down on For Sale boards that are in breach of litter laws so check the rules of where you can place it before you post it.

Once people call for a viewing, spruce the place up and conduct the viewings. You know the property better than any estate agent would so sell its good points.

The legal stuff is handled by solicitors (even if you used an estate agent) so find one that someone has recommended and leave the paperwork to them. This should cost less than €1000 (excluding VAT & outlays) so don't pay much more.

One thing that you might want to spring for are professional photographs as they do make a difference. Go onto www.photographers.ie to find one in your area.

Seriously, selling your property yourself is dead easy, but it's not for everyone. If you want to save a good bit of money and don't mind a bit of leg work, do it yourself.

D3PO

Ortiz wrote: »

There's some harsh words here about EA's that are a little unjustified imo.

D3PO you make the common mistake of thinking that if you track asking prices you will be able to determine your value. Asking prices are not legitimate comparables, sale prices are. Who has more knowledge of what properties are selling for in the market that anyone else? EA's.

You also state that "EA's have no qualifications". Bit of a "manure" statement don't ya think? (to use your term!) There are honours level property degrees, IAVI qualifications, RICS qualifications, many auctioneers are qualified as chartered surveyors as well. Afaik every auctioneer office in Ireland has to have at least one member of staff with an IAVI qualification.

Once a property goes sale agreed the EA doesn't just sit back and twiddle his thumbs until the next property on his books sells (Ok some do). A good EA will speed up that process as much as they can and be the port of call for the buyer throughout this process. They are very much involved at this stage of the sale, just not as much as the solicitors.

What about the hours EA's put in? When solicitors, accountants etc. are clocking off at 5.30 EA's often work till 8 or 9 o clock Monday to Saturday. You might not respect the work they do but that doesn't mean they don't work hard doing it.

In the years leading into the boom every farmer and joe soap became an auctioneer. These idiots gave the profession a terrible name, and unfortunately there are still too many of these cowboys out there in the market, but there are genuine, hard working EA's out there that are only trying to make a living like anyone else.

sorry I should have rephrased. an EA doesnt have to have a qualification. A doctor cannot practice without being qualified but somebody can be an EA without one.

I havent made a common mistake visa vi asking prices and sales prices. If you have any cop on you can price your house using the market average. It doesnt take much once offers start to come in as to weather you will have to re adjust your expectations as to what it will sell at based on the number of viewsings generated or the offers your recieving.

You seem to believe theres some sort of complexity involved in the world of supply and demand. Its a pretty straight forward concept.

A good EA might speed up the process, but again its not through any complex skills they possess. Anybody can ring up and pressure their and the buyers solicitors into pushing things through. Theres nothing magic going on that makes this happen.

Im not saying there arent hard working EA's out there. Im saying 1 they are the exception and 2 even with their hard work the service they are supplying is nothing the savvy individual cannot do for themself whilst saving a significant cost in the sale of their property.

D3PO

crabfeet wrote: »

Obviously you have never been involved in the sale of a house.

An enormous amount goes on before it goes to solicitors.A deal has to be brokered.

There are surveyors crawling all over the place for one thing.

Someone views. They have to be evaluated. They might make an offer.

With a lot of work they might increase it.

They will do a survey.

They will try and use the survey to get the price down.
There may be another round of negotiation.

Only after all that are deposits taken and solicitors instructed. After that solicitors may need to be chased.

Someone views --> translation EA has an ad on daft, myhome or in their office or all 3 most likely. Somebody calls them and arranges a viewing. EA arranges a time and they turn up and show them around pointing out the great aspects of the house.

Wow well done they had to answer the phone and turn up at the property and show somebody around for 10 - 15 mins maybe, and if they are efficent they will schedule viewings consequtively if multiple interest is shown to be more time efficent.

with a lot of "work" they might increase it. In otherwords either the vendor turns down the offer, and the EA goes back saying no min accepted will be X or the EA makes up a phantom bidder to try and extort more money out of some unsuspecting mug.

then if the offer is accepted then a deposit is expected THEN not as you suggest after the survey.

If there are any negotiations after the survey, the seller is involved at all stages they ultimatly decide if they are willing to or how much they are willing to negotiate by. Now if somebody cannot negotiate for toffee then yes theres value in having an EA hired, but I refer to the normal savvy individual who should be able to do all of the above.

I cant believe people on here are actualy trying in to convince that what an EA does is specialist to the degree they should be able to charge the rates they do.

D3PO

The Good Agent wrote: »

Seriously, selling your property yourself is dead easy, but it's not for everyone. If you want to save a good bit of money and don't mind a bit of leg work, do it yourself.

Firstly fair play for the full disclosure. Ive quoted your final point which I think is spot on the money.

The only people that should need to use an EA are those who cannot or dont feel confident in negotiations. I would categorise these as the kind of peopel that fall for the pressure sell at the doorstep or get caught up with the charity workers in town etc.

Or those that are not confident enough to back themselves to go through the whole process.

There is definatly a market for EA's in respect of this but they should not be the major market player in home sales.

But how dose the op who is selling his/her house with out an EA over come the predigest ( rightly or wrongly ) the he/she is not using an EA because they think there house is worth more than an EA has valued it and there for could be a nightmare for a buyer to deal with?

I say this because its only in the recent past you see so many people trying to sell with out an EA.

the ostrich

Parents of best friend sold without EA, no problem at all. EA originally employed and instructed to pass on all offers but they found that he was not doing this.

They had it priced at 345k originally but did not get any interest, even though the same agent had many other identical properties for sale at around 375k or more.

They tested the EA when a "bogus" purchaser put in a cash offer of 275k. The offer was never relayed to them. They took it off the market and put it back privately on Daft, and sold 4 months later forn 280k.

D3PO

mariaalice wrote: »

But how dose the op who is selling his/her house with out an EA over come the predigest ( rightly or wrongly ) the he/she is not using an EA because they think there house is worth more than an EA has valued it and there for could be a nightmare for a buyer to deal with?

I say this because its only in the recent past you see so many people trying to sell with out an EA.

not sure where the perception that buyers dont want to deal directly comes from ? Tha tmight be your opinion but Ive neevr seen any data to suggest this is the position most people take.

From my own perspective Id much rather deal with a private seller. Looks at the last post, this isnt the first time stories like this have been heard. At least dealing directly with a private seller you know theres no bullsh*t. You know there going to get the offer.

Why somebody would be put off by a private seller is beyond me. Surely a house sale comes down to 1 thing and 1 thing only. PRICE.

If a private seller overvalues then it wont sell, thats no different than if an EA overvalues it.

Likewise it a private seller takes a reasonable view on the value it will sell regardless of the employment of an EA or not.

the ostrich

You are dead right. Its down to price and nothing else. They sold because they were realistic about their expectations. They knew all along that with the asking price of just under 300k, they were going to generate alot of interest. This they did and got many enquires. One lead to a sale.

Sadly, the other vendors were and are still in denial, and guess what most are still unsold 24 months later.

Dymo

Its a chance you could take, the estate agent is working on a commission only basis if they sell they get paid if they don't they get nothing. Its up to you how much advertising you spend and how much time you have to put into the selling of the house.

Sadly, the other vendors were and are still in denial, and guess what most are still unsold 24 months later.

I'd say that's the problem with a lot of people, but an auctioneer I know was telling me that a person he met who bought their house in 2006 for €170,000 now wanted to sell, but because they spent a bit of money on the house that you wouldn't see they wanted at least €230,000 for it.He told them it was worth €170,000 -€180,000 maximum and left it to them. Its up on daft now for €240,000 with another auctioneer that's based in another town. I guess kept getting valuations until they were happy with one.

Maybe their house is the exception to the rule that it can go up by a 1/3 in a property drop or maybe they just haven't a clue.

D3PO

Dymo wrote: »

Its a chance you could take, the estate agent is working on a commission only basis if they sell they get paid if they don't they get nothing. Its up to you how much advertising you spend and how much time you have to put into the selling of the house.



I'd say that's the problem with a lot of people, but an auctioneer I know was telling me that a person he met who bought their house in 2006 for €170,000 now wanted to sell, but because they spent a bit of money on the house that you wouldn't see they wanted at least €230,000 for it.He told them it was worth €170,000 -€180,000 maximum and left it to them. Its up on daft now for €240,000 with another auctioneer that's based in another town. I guess kept getting valuations until they were happy with one.

Maybe their house is the exception to the rule that it can go up by a 1/3 in a property drop or maybe they just haven't a clue.

and thats exactly it. The second EA has taken on the property just to get it on its books, knowing it wont achieve the asking price, but with a view i will kepe it on get no bites suggest a reduction and eventualyl the vendor will drop it. Its disgusting and one of the reasons I dislike EA's

If they had any integrity they would have been saying the same as the first acutioneer. There also the reason a lot of sellers are still in denial because they pander to their fanciful notion just to get the property on the books with a view to eventually making cash off it.

Ortiz

D3PO wrote: »

and thats exactly it. The second EA has taken on the property just to get it on its books, knowing it wont achieve the asking price, but with a view i will kepe it on get no bites suggest a reduction and eventualyl the vendor will drop it. Its disgusting and one of the reasons I dislike EA's

I totally agree with this. So many EA's overvalue properties just to get them on their books, beat the other EA's to the property, with the view of chipping away at the price over time and eventually selling the property.

However I still think there's more to an EA than what you think. A lot of the big firms send their agents on photography courses for instance. I know that's not a major part of the selling process but with the amount of stock that is on the market at the moment bad photos could ruin your chances of getting a potential purchaser as they won't even click on your ad. Like I said I know it's not a major thing but if it puts a single potential purchaser off then it's an issue.

I agree with some of what ye're saying, but I think a good EA can make the process of moving home a far smoother process and it's a time when people can be under the most stress in their life.

You may think EA's have a simple job, but there are many EA's working their a$$es of at the moment in an extremely insecure working environment. You've obviously had bad experiences, and I'd be the first to say that there are indescribable idiots working in the profession, but you're definately painting them all with the same brush which isn't fair.

At the very least they're paying their income tax and not drawing money from the Government! That counts for something doesn't it??:D

D3PO

I am unfortunatly tarring them all with the same brush. I dont dispute there are some excellent agents out there, but even with that I still believe the price charged far outweights the work done.

Certainly it did during the boom. I guess its probably a shock to them that they actually have to work for the commission right now

crabfeet

The Good Agent wrote: »

Full disclosure: I am in the estate agency business, but please don't hold that against me.

This is no estate agent. This is a rehash of drivel already posted with a few bits thrown in. Selling or buying a house is the biggest financial transaction most people are involved with in their lives. It is highly stressful and fraught with difficulty. People who think that selling a house involves putting a few photos on the net, cleaning up their house and waiting for offers, after which the whole thing is handled by solicitors have a lot to learn.

wellboytoo

Maybe this thread should be titled " Has anyone tried to sell........"

D3PO

crabfeet wrote: »

This is no estate agent. This is a rehash of drivel already posted with a few bits thrown in. .

your dead right that post was drivel.

I know multiple people that have sold themselves. You have clearly never tried to sell yourself because your falling into the trap that EA's prey on, that its more difficult to sell a house than it actually is.

Freiheit

If I was to use an auctioneer what criteria would people here recommend when choosing one?.

As it turns out I had to resort to one for valuation and thus revenue purposes. I found a smaller auctioneer more personable and used him. A larger firm were machine like and cold as well as more expensive.

The larger firm of course claimed their greater expertise justified this greater charge. Have they greater expertise and if so if this more likely to translate into a more satisfactory sale? Or is the nation simply liquidated regardless?.

On what basis should I choose an individual auctioneer?.

Ronald Sherrif

If you are planning to buy another house, it can be a good idea to give the sale of your house to the Auctioneer you are buying from. the size of the firm has little enough to do with it. There are good and bad people in firms and there are good and bad sole practitioners. The main issue at the moment is agents who have experience in your market segment.

Freiheit

I found the larger firm excessively formal, whereas with the smaller firm I met a formal, maverick type charachter who spoke off the cuff a lot. I'm selling a commercial premises, hope to buy a house with the proceeds, hopefully.

Freiheit

What would the normal commission rate be? The smaller firm quoted me at 1.5%.

Also is it possible to register with more than one Auctioneer, whoever sells get's the commission?.

Ronald Sherrif

1.5% sounds low for a commercial premises. A lot depends on how easily the premises can be expected to sell. The greater the likelihood on an easy sale, the lower the commission. The biggest question is what experience the agents you are considering have in the sale of similar premises.

Freiheit

How would experience translate into a better result?.

Is there such a thing as an easy sale in todays calamitous climate?

Is it possible that a small firm could yield as good or better a result than a giant?. A lot of the websites are clearly common, such as daft.ie

On a side note I observe that the larger firms are seeking Celtic Tiger prices still. Ridiculous valuations. Their knoweldge of the market does not impress me.

Freiheit

Is there an Auctioneer rating site? Like for books or teachers?. If not perhaps one could be formed?.

Questions didn't appear welcome. They need to explain to me why they should be hired. Wasn't appreciated.

Chipboard

crabfeet wrote: »

They have experience and knowledge of the market. How much to ask for

You have got to be joking. Daft and MyHome contain literally thousands of houses which are grossly overpriced - the vast majority of which were listed by so called experienced auctioneers.

The truth is that auctioneering is one of the only occupations where you can lie to your clients and get away with it. This is a fact. Most professionals get held to account on only their spoken word, never mind what they put in writing. Auctioneers lie all the time and I have never yet heard of a buyer getting redress.

I have had an auctioneer from one of the national firms try to sell me a site which had a planning restriction (planning declined twice and decision stated that an application would only be accepted from a person who owns min 25 acres of land within 400 metres of the site). She thought I would hand her €80k and not find out until afterwards.

I have had an auctioneer try to sell me a house which he said (to me, in the brochure an on Daft) was 3,500 sq ft in size. The house turned out to be 2,650 sq ft in size. He was including the attic and adding on a bit for good measure too. This is still listed in this manner on Daft despite the fact that I asked him to correct it.

Just 3 weeks ago I viewed a house which was advertised as builders finish. The house had no second fix carpentry (internal doors, architrave, skirting, upstairs floors). It had no stairs (there was a temporary thing the builder threw together). The site wasn't levelled, there were no paths, no kerbing and no driveway. I clarified with the owner that they intended to bring it to builders finish and they told me that the auctioneer told them that what they had WAS builders finish. Horsesh1t. This is still listed in this manner on Daft.

I could go on about the multiple times I have been lied to by auctioneers but there's no value in that - everyone expects auctioneers to lie to buyers. Let me tell you about auctioneers lying to sellers.

A guy I knew some years ago (before the bust) told me how he got a very valuable house for a song - something like €1.5m under value. He deals in property alot and was always buying and selling. He was about to put another house on the market (I'm talking about expensives houses in the €6 - 10m range). He approached the auctioneer who was selling the house he wanted to buy (lets call it house A) and told him he would give him the sale of house B, on condition that he sell him house A for X amount. Of course the lying cheating auctioneer went to the vendor of house A and convinced him that he wouldn't get anymore than X amount and the offer was going to be withdrawn unless he agreed to sell quickly.

From the point of view of incompetence, look up 10 properties on Daft for instance and view the interior photographs. Cluttered kitchens, worktops covered in kitchen utensils, delph, appliances, stacks of books and newspapers. Hideous pink paint straight from 1978 in the bathroom. A cat or a dog lying on the couch (equals p1ss soaked carpet). No attempt to present a good product. I have even seen photos on daft showing jocks drying on the radiator in the kitchen. Lovely to be thinking of that when your putting your tea towel on it later. And the quality of the photos is hideous in most cases.

We have viewed numerous houses over the past couple of years and the amount of times we have been told that the house is being sold because of a divorce is unbelievable. Knowing this and then seeing the photos of the happy families on the mantlepiece and in the hall and the kids toys in the bedrooms is very off-putting. It makes you feel like your buying something that is tainted. Would a so called expert not know that they should de-personalise the house and keep their mouth shut about the divorce. If I was the seller of that house I would be raging that 1) my privacy wasn't respected and 2) a possible sale was jeopardised.

Use an auctioneer if you want but don't listen to a word they say, whether you are a buyer or seller. In my opinion if your not capable of doing a better job than 97% of the auctioneers in this country you have issues.

As someone else said, the only thing selling now is price. No amount of lying or cheating is going to clinch the deal because its a buyers market.

Rant over.

crabfeet

There are good and bad agents.
Asking prices are agreed with the owner. It is most likely that owners are demanding that properties be marketed at excessive prices rather than agents trying to achieve prices which have no relation with reality.
I have been involved in selling property for other people but i wouldn't attempt to sell my own.
The o/p is considering selling a commercial premises himself. commercial is more complicated than residential. Commercial buyers are less likely to use the internet to source premises and will want information on rateable valuation, fire certs, three phase power, planning permission, zoning etc.
I have seen people ruined in commercioal deals which went wrong.
Getting agreement from potential purchasers is easy. Keeping things together until the cheque is handed over may not be. Some deals move smoothly and others area nightmare.

Freiheit

I have given the sale to the small but personable auctioneer mentioned. I'll hope for the best and see how it goes. The commission rate is quite low . No price will be quoted, the price will be what people are prepared to pay. If there isn't anyone biting in a month or six weeks would it be reasonable to involve a second, better connected auctioneer?.

D3PO

Freiheit wrote: »

I . No price will be quoted, the price will be what people are prepared to pay..

not a good idea. and i would think an EA worth their salt would have told you this. So not a good start by your new EA

POA or Price on application is a deterrant that prevents people from viewing.

Having no price will drive away potential buyers. You need to have an asking price but you need ti to be realistic in todays market.

Freiheit

I didn't want to limit myself by quoting a price, oh well it can always be added later.

ravendude

Freiheit wrote: »

I didn't want to limit myself by quoting a price, oh well it can always be added later.

I agree with the poster above, not a good idea. Yeah, it can always be added later, but the longer your house is visibly sitting around, the harder it is to sell. The first 3 months are the most important. Most buyers would be keeping a close eye on the market over a time and will be aware that a house has been on the market for a while, and begin to wonder what's wrong with it aside from price. They also won't be as prepared to pay as much for it if they are aware its been on the market for a while. You want to shift it as soon as possible, there's plenty of other houses out there remember.

crabfeet

The o/p is selling a commercial premises. Such premises are usually valued by well known criteria. The only chance of a high price is if a local business badly wants the particular premsise and is prepared to pay a premium. In the current market that is unlikley.
The o/ps attitude is precisely the reason buyers do not like dealing with private sellers. He cannot make up his mind. No business person will make fiorst offer. A price will have to be quoted. The quoted price can be at the upper range of valuation or slightly above. Any commercial buyer who has money left at this time is no fool. A hard bargain will be driven and the o/p needs to ensure that he attracts and holds a purchaser and gets the full value of the premises out of them.

Freiheit

Look I don't claim a monopoly on knowledge. It just did strike me, still does that a lot of what the auctioneer does, I could do myself.

I have resorted to an Auctioneer as the revenue insisted that an Auctioneer had to value my property. Also a number of websites, most obviously daft.ie are monopolised by auctioneers. None of it strikes me as rocket science. Many of the properties on such and advertised by giants of the industry appear hugely overpriced,insanely in some cases. Not exactly a great demonstration of their expertise.

However through my dealings with the revenue I have developed a good relationship with this minnow auctioneer. As there is only a charge if, big if, a sale is made, I'm prepared to give him a chance.

The Ad hasn't been designed yet but hopefully by the weekend.

Yes I'm hoping that tradition might arouse interested parties in the area. I've no illusions that it will be easy in todays climate. I hope for the best but am aware that the worst could happen. Hopefully not though.

liger

I have to say, dealing with an EA a couple of weeks ago to view a property, the rubbish they came out with can be awful.

They couldn't show the house when i wanted because they were having a sales meeting in the office, then they waited untill i got to the house to inform me they had an offer on the house, 210k for asking 230k. They claimed the owner turned down an offer of 240k couple of months ago but the higest the house was listed was 249k. Told them it was too expensive.

Yesterday the same EA put a house in the same area on the market, 50k cheaper. Did they ring and say, hey you viewed a house in area x a couple of weeks ago, we now have another property in that area for sale, would you be interested in viewing it?? Nope, i rang them and guess what, there are no viewing this weekend because its a long weekend!!!!!!

Why people need to pay these guys 2% of a sale for this type of service is beyond me. And the first house is still for sale!!!!!

Ortiz

liger wrote: »

I have to say, dealing with an EA a couple of weeks ago to view a property, the rubbish they came out with can be awful.

They couldn't show the house when i wanted because they were having a sales meeting in the office, then they waited untill i got to the house to inform me they had an offer on the house, 210k for asking 230k. They claimed the owner turned down an offer of 240k couple of months ago but the higest the house was listed was 249k. Told them it was too expensive.

Yesterday the same EA put a house in the same area on the market, 50k cheaper. Did they ring and say, hey you viewed a house in area x a couple of weeks ago, we now have another property in that area for sale, would you be interested in viewing it?? Nope, i rang them and guess what, there are no viewing this weekend because its a long weekend!!!!!!

Why people need to pay these guys 2% of a sale for this type of service is beyond me. And the first house is still for sale!!!!!

None of that seems that bad Liger, i've heard far worse stories. Vendors can be extremely unrealistic and maybe it's true that those offers were turned down. The EA can't accept an offer and any EA in the country is hardly that arsed about the price they get for a property as long as they sell it. Obviously the higher the better but with the way the market is I really doubt they're playing those sort of games with you just to get a better price.

The fact that they put the other house on at that price could mean a couple of things:

1 - It's not as good a house as the one you looked at
2 - The vendors are simply more realistic, or need a quick sale

The fact that they didn't ring you is poor quality service for sure, i'll give you that.

I think it would be fair to say that all auctioneers work weekends when they have to (maybe i'm wrong). It's a long weekend this weekend and they could have all sorts of personal plans for it. Are they meant to drop everything cos you wanna view a house?? Believe it or not EA's are entitled to their holidays too.

This is a classic case of you simply thinking the worst of every incident simply because of the reputation of EA's. From what you've posted above it seems extremely plausible that the EA has done absolutely nothing wrong bar not informing you of the new property that came on the market, so I wouldn't get so worked up

Kosseegan

Auctioneers do not necessarily keep records of who has been viewing houses and ringing them back. Anybody who is seriously looking for a house in a particular area is going to become aware of one coming on the market very quickly. Very few will work on bank holiday weekends. A lot of owners do not want viewings and a lot of potential viewers are away.The o/p is concerned about hiring an agent to sell. Like in so many areas reputation is everything.

liger

Ortiz wrote: »

It's a long weekend this weekend and they could have all sorts of personal plans for it. Are they meant to drop everything cos you wanna view a house?? Believe it or not EA's are entitled to their holidays too.

If they are running a business i'd expect them to have some staff working, yes. Barmen, bus drivers, nurses and doctors and most of the retail sector all work long weekends and only monday is a holiday not saturday which is one of their normal working days.

They moan that the market is dead and people arent buying, well if they arent prepared to stick in a bit of effort they wont get results. Also i know from having these guys into my old place that they tell people, oh we have a list of buyers looking in the surrounding area that we can contact about your property.

Ortiz

liger wrote: »

If they are running a business i'd expect them to have some staff working, yes. Barmen, bus drivers, nurses and doctors and most of the retail sector all work long weekends and only monday is a holiday not saturday which is one of their normal working days.

They moan that the market is dead and people arent buying, well if they arent prepared to stick in a bit of effort they wont get results. Also i know from having these guys into my old place that they tell people, oh we have a list of buyers looking in the surrounding area that we can contact about your property.

Barmen, bus driver, nurses, doctors and most of the retail sector - nearly all of them will take a day or two off during the week if they work weekends. EA's work Monday to Sat every week so I think you should excuse them if they take a long weekend off. What about solicitors, accountants etc.? Should they work weekends for you too?

You say they should have some staff working. Well with the downturn in the economy a lot of branches, even the biggest ones, only have a couple of staff - if even. So lets say the agent that shows the property you want to view has booked a weekend away with his or her family - What would you expect of them then?? Of course they might just be taking this week off work with no real reason but I wouldn't begrudge them that either considering they work most weekends in the year as well as Mon - Fri and evenings.

A lot of EA's really do keep lists of buyers and a lot of EA's bullsh!t that they do - I don't think there's much to discuss on that side of things, it just sums up the profession to me - there are some good EA's and some absolute cowboys

davo10

If you are considering selling without an estate agents, make sure you get your spelling right in the newspaper ad, watch this it's hilarious!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxMHBv86JSY