Israel gets one right!

Cookie_Monster

RedXIV wrote: »

or the "fact" that if you sailed west from Spain, you'd hit India
.

but you will... you can sail right through the canal and get to india

MagicMarker

RedXIV wrote: »

People for countless years believed the "fact" that the earth was flat, or the "fact" that if you sailed west from Spain, you'd hit India or even as recent as the "fact" that smoking was harmless

"Facts" should be constantly under scrutiny as if our experience on this planet has thought us anything, is that we have made alot of mistakes in the past.

The Myth of the Flat Earth

No reputable scientist believed the Earth was flat. The greeks determined that the Earth was round a couple of thousand years ago.

curlzy

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

Everything about the Middle East **** storm is about religion.

True that! But I also think racism and greed play a big part in the Israel/Palestine mess.

I read this (I'm not quoting directly but this is the gist) from a Palestian poster on another forum recently:
"It's like someone coming into your house and declaring that the sittingroom is theirs. Then they invite all their friends and relatives to join them, then they take over the kitchen and the hall, then the upstairs bedroom and so on until the only place you have is the boxroom, then they come in and take parts of that, then they make it so that you need to bring ID when you want to use the bathroom."

I mean wow, that really sums it up doesn't it?

sensibleken

RedXIV wrote: »

People for countless years believed the "fact" that the earth was flat, or the "fact" that if you sailed west from Spain, you'd hit India or even as recent as the "fact" that smoking was harmless

"Facts" should be constantly under scrutiny as if our experience on this planet has thought us anything, is that we have made alot of mistakes in the past.

This one comes up a lot. No, people didn't think the world was flat, if anyone did it wasnt a majority view.

And scientific facts are constantly scrutinised. If a new piece of information comes to light and doesnt fit the established view of things then a new theory is put forward. Almost every paper published and peer reviewed tests theories, assumptions and facts.

It becomes a problem when someone in a position of power and influence denies all available and over whelming evidence and instead goes for some arcane creation myth outlined in a religious book and backed up by nothing.

pickarooney

A guy gets fired for encouraging students to think critically and not accept everything at face value - the very kind of thinking that brought about the theory of evolution - and this is a good thing?

I shall call upon my descendants who have evolved a palm covering their faces to express my feelings on this.

seamus

pickarooney wrote: »

A guy gets fired for encouraging students to think critically and not accept everything at face value - the very kind of thinking that brought about the theory of evolution - and this is a good thing?

Actually he was proposing that every theory on a particular subject has equal value, which is clearly not the case and is counterproductive when it comes to critical thinking because you waste time examining unfeasible concepts.

RedXIV

MagicMarker wrote: »

The Myth of the Flat Earth

No reputable scientist believed the Earth was flat. The greeks determined that the Earth was round a couple of thousand years ago.

Tell that to them

They still debate the issue.

sensibleken wrote: »

This one comes up a lot. No, people didn't think the world was flat, if anyone did it wasnt a majority view.

And scientific facts are constantly scrutinised. If a new piece of information comes to light and doesnt fit the established view of things then a new theory is put forward. Almost every paper published and peer reviewed tests theories, assumptions and facts.

It becomes a problem when someone in a position of power and influence denies all available and over whelming evidence and instead goes for some arcane creation myth outlined in a religious book and backed up by nothing.

Well this is point I was originially making. He's been kicked out for saying that he would actually research the idea of evolution before he accepted it. And he's being reprimanded for it. Surely as a scientist he should be allowed to try and debunk the theory as it will only make it stronger or provide new evidence

Wibbs

seamus wrote: »

Actually he was proposing that every theory on a particular subject has equal value, which is clearly not the case and is counterproductive when it comes to critical thinking because you waste time examining unfeasible concepts.

I would disagree. Unfeasible concepts have often, nay regularly have led to feasible ones. In order to critically think one has to be exposed to all theories. Thoughts and concepts should be unrestricted, otherwise we end up in stasis. Like pickarooney suggests it was the unfeasible nature of previous theories when exposed to evidence that gave us evolution. Any tweaking of the mechanism of evolution will come from someone pushing questions of its feasibility.

Einhard

RedXIV wrote: »

Tell that to them

Jesus, I actually think they're serious.

karma_

Wibbs wrote: »

I would disagree. Unfeasible concepts have often, nay regularly have led to feasible ones. In order to critically think one has to be exposed to all theories. Thoughts and concepts should be unrestricted, otherwise we end up in stasis. Like pickarooney suggests it was the unfeasible nature of previous theories when exposed to evidence that gave us evolution. Any tweaking of the mechanism of evolution will come from someone pushing questions of its feasibility.

Possibly, but I really fail to see how creationism should be in any way, an acceptable theory to be considered alongside evolution. Creationism is anathema to evolution.

sensibleken

RedXIV wrote: »

Tell that to them

They still debate the issue.




Well this is point I was originially making. He's been kicked out for saying that he would actually research the idea of evolution before he accepted it. And he's being reprimanded for it. Surely as a scientist he should be allowed to try and debunk the theory as it will only make it stronger or provide new evidence

Thats not the whole story. He said he dismisses evolution because it leaves god out. That shows both bias and an unsuitability for a job as a government scientist

http://sensuouscurmudgeon.wordpress.com/2010/02/26/creationism-in-israel-the-fury-increases/

If someone comes up with credible evidence that evolution is wrong it will ruffle feathers but will become accepted. Its happened before (see bohr vs einstein).

But he is clearly dismissing it in favour of a completely lunatic idea that has no proof

vibe666

i think it's more to do with him thinking that creationism deserves any more serious study than anything else.

yet again it comes down to people not understanding the basics of what a scientific "theory" or a "law" actually is and comparing scientific theory to some drunken bloke down a pub having a "theory" about where his pint went.

a "theory" in science isn't just an idea, it's an explanation of known phenomena, which in this case is evolution. as far as mainstream science is concerned, after 150 years of studying testing & re-testing the available data, biological evolution is just about as much of a fact as its possible to get.

the "theory" of evolution as a whole is currently the best explanation we have of how evolution works.

i read somewhere that there are currently over 200,000 peer reviewed articles on the subject of evolution. that's 200,000 articles written by respected scientists based on their observations, experiments and studies that have been submitted to other respected scientists who have re-observed, re-experimented and re-studied the data and found it to be accurate.

based on that, the guy in Israel is an assclown who has no place being in charge of anything science related anywhere.

RedXIV

sensibleken wrote: »

Thats not the whole story. He said he dismisses evolution because it leaves god out. That shows both bias and an unsuitability for a job as a government scientist

http://sensuouscurmudgeon.wordpress.com/2010/02/26/creationism-in-israel-the-fury-increases/

If someone comes up with credible evidence that evolution is wrong it will ruffle feathers but will become accepted. Its happened before (see bohr vs einstein).

But he is clearly dismissing it in favour of a completely lunatic idea that has no proof

Ah my bad. I misread that

speedboatchase

What has his nationality got to do with anything? Latent anti-semitism?

Calibos

I think the Israeli guy should have been put in a sack and beaten with a big stick

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIaV8swc-fo

This BS about 'Teaching the Controversy' which is basically what this Israeli guy was proposing always reminds me of the, 'In the interests of balance' monologue from Dara O'Brians standup routine.

Sure you can teach the controversy between competing Hypothesis like say String Theory and Dark Matter theory but there is no controversy between Evolutionary theory which has more proof behind it than pretty much any other theory in science and the 'competing' theory of, "And holy god created man out of the dust and woman from his rib........"

sensibleken

speedboatchase wrote: »

What has his nationality got to do with anything? Latent anti-semitism?

No...just no.

RichieC

The bible doesnt have a chapter dedicated to the holes in the theory like otoos does.

It's not biologists who are cock sure yet its a main complaint against them by the religious right.

its the old rovian strategy of "attack their strengts"

44leto

There was a series on BBC4 the last few weeks called Jerusalem. The city is 5000 years old it is the holy site of 3 faiths. From its onset to present the present it has being in wars and suffered genocide after genocide.

I have come to the conclusion it is an unholy kip which needs to be abandoned then nuked. Its the one place on Earth were everybody is wrong.

Israel are just following the tradition of that region.

brimal

A bit odd that his nationality has to be mentioned.

Nice try OP, praising Israel for this decision, but not quiet praising. Have two get a dig in somewhere don't you.

And BTW, Israel has done more proportionally for science and the tech industry than most countries in the world, so this 'for once well done Israel' is complete nonsense.

Nodin

brimal wrote: »

A bit odd that his nationality has to be mentioned.

Nice try OP, praising Israel for this decision, but not quiet praising. Have two get a dig in somewhere don't you.

And BTW, Israel has done more proportionally for science and the tech industry than most countries in the world, so this 'for once well done Israel' is complete nonsense.

The contributions of Germany and Germans is similarily vast. Let us therefore never mention anything bad about them ever again.

WoollyRedHat

seamus wrote: »

What he effectively said was that we should examine evolutionary theory scientifically, but also compare it to unicorns for good measure.

Hey, you got a problem with unicorns?

44leto

There is a chance he is right about CO2, it only absorbs 8% of black body radiation and it only can absorb a certain amount of the total BBR and then it doesn't matter how much more you put into the atmosphere it can't absorb anymore heat.

BUT the Earth is warming so something has changed.

As for us evolving from monkeys, we didn't both them and us evolved from another primate and we don't know what that was yet.

44leto

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

Hey, you got a problem with unicorns?

I do, posers, that is why I killed the last one.