To pod or not to pod.

pudgeydev

Hi all,
Just wondering what your thoughts are on this..I’m training for DCM, 3rd marathon, but I want to run the whole lot of this rather than walking after 20-22miles. If I can go under 4hours it’ll be a good time for me.
I’ve been doing my LSR’s lately listening to interviews and podcasts, I’ve found this to be extremely helpful as I’ve been able to get lost in the stories and forget about the toughness of the run. Previously I’ve listened to music and found myself losing interest in the music and thinking about the mileage, the pace, how hard it all is and I find myself slowing down and struggling to complete LSR’s.
With DCM, I’m debating whether or not I should stick to my method of downloading a few podcasts and trying to run it all this way, or enjoy the crowds and hope that they will keep my evil mind from telling me I can’t do it and to slow down and take a little breather…
Any of you all in a similar situation or gone through it before?
Thanks!

Peckham

I predict that the bulk of the feedback you get here will be anti-pod, and I'm one of them.

One of the most enjoyable aspects of a marathon is the crowd interaction, particularly when you're struggling.

Plus - listening to an ipod during the race is dangerous, both to yourself and other runners, as you'll be unaware of what's going on around you (e.g. someone behind you, swerving for water station or whatever).

Krusty_Clown

Ah the 'ol iPod debate of 2010. I remember it well. You'll get a very mixed bag of responses, with probably a fairly equal distribution in favour and against the use of the iPod. At least if you're listening to podcasts you are more likely to hear sirens or instructions from the marshals. Listening to music can be quite hazardous (there have been a couple of fatalities in Australia in recent years related to runners getting hit by ambulances).

My own personal preference would be to train with podcasts/music, but leave the ipod and headphones at home on race day. My intention isn't to try and get through the race as quickly as possible with a minimum amount of distraction, but to run as quickly as possible and enjoy every moment that my hard work in training deserves.

Peckham

Peckham wrote: »

I predict that the bulk of the feedback you get here will be anti-pod,

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

You'll get a very mixed bag of responses, with probably a fairly equal distribution in favour and against the use of the iPod.

Well, let's see who's right on this one!

Krusty_Clown

Peckham wrote: »

Well, let's see who's right on this one!

Right, I'm bringing out the big guns. PMs sent to the music defenders..

donothoponpop

Peckham wrote: »

Well, let's see who's right on this one!

Peckham's right!

Any mass participation race I've been in has been blighted by headphone-wearing zombies, who are an obstruction to those around them. I've been pushed into an oncoming car (Limerick marathon) from an ipod'er who didn't hear me on his outside, and just veered across into my path:mad:

Very dangerous in congestion. Leave the ipod at home, and appreciate your surroundings, and what you're doing. The crowds in Dublin are amazing, and will give you a great lift during the final stages.

mloc123

ipods in a race I just do not understand.

pudgeydev

Thanks for the feedback lads.
I don’t get why people don’t understand ipods in a race.
It seems odd to me that the advice for marathon day regarding what you eat/drink beforehand, clothing, gels, water intake etc is “Do what you do in your LSR’s”, and this is accepted by everyone. Why is this different is for listening to ipods, where the majority of advice is “DON’T DO IT!”?
If I’ve done 16-18-20mile LSR’s with an ipod, doing 26 miles without one is completely different situation, isn’t it?
I understand the whole race situation where obviously you shouldn’t have it on in the first couple miles or where there’s a crowd around you.
I’m happy enough to chat to people but in those last few miles, if I could get lost in a conversation someone else is having on an ipod rather than thinking “Oh lord, there’s 4 miles left, 4 WHOLE MILES, you’ll never do it, never, may as well walk a little bit, just a little”!

tunney

music in races and training i think is a terrible idea.

If you are focusing on the music/podcasts you aren't paying attention to your form and will probably be running sloppily unless you are a natural runner. Less effeciency and more injuries.

donothoponpop

pudgeydev wrote: »

I don’t get why people don’t understand ipods in a race.
It seems odd to me that the advice for marathon day regarding what you eat/drink beforehand, clothing, gels, water intake etc is “Do what you do in your LSR’s”, and this is accepted by everyone. Why is this different is for listening to ipods, where the majority of advice is “DON’T DO IT!”?

I run my LSR's in a pretty remote area, and have frightened small animals with my post-Saturday night flatulence... I'll be a tad more composed surrounded by hundreds of others;) Ditto snot rockets, hacking up Galway Bay oysters, etc.

Seriously, ipod wearers are a danger to other runners in the race. Listen to what you want on your LSR's, but zoning out of your surroundings in a crowded race enviroment is selfish to those around you.

TFBubendorfer

pudgeydev wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback lads.
I don’t get why people don’t understand ipods in a race.
It seems odd to me that the advice for marathon day regarding what you eat/drink beforehand, clothing, gels, water intake etc is “Do what you do in your LSR’s”, and this is accepted by everyone. Why is this different is for listening to ipods, where the majority of advice is “DON’T DO IT!”?
If I’ve done 16-18-20mile LSR’s with an ipod, doing 26 miles without one is completely different situation, isn’t it?
I understand the whole race situation where obviously you shouldn’t have it on in the first couple miles or where there’s a crowd around you.
I’m happy enough to chat to people but in those last few miles, if I could get lost in a conversation someone else is having on an ipod rather than thinking “Oh lord, there’s 4 miles left, 4 WHOLE MILES, you’ll never do it, never, may as well walk a little bit, just a little”!

The difference is that in a race you have spectators at the road side urging you on and providing a massive lift, especially towards the end of the marathon when you need it the most. In training, that's unlikely to happen.

I ran my first marathon with an mp3 player and decided never again. I missed out on all the crowd interaction and the atmosphere.

BeepBeep67

pudgeydev wrote: »

I understand the whole race situation where obviously you shouldn’t have it on in the first couple miles or where there’s a crowd around you.

For me it's a no in a race situation for the safety reasons noted above and only occasionally in training normally easy mid-distance runs.

BTW -
266 runners finished DCM09 between 3:59 and 4:01 clock time, that's more than 2 runners every second - so that's pretty busy.

Rebelrunner

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

I ran my first marathon with an mp3 player and decided never again. I missed out on all the crowd interaction and the atmosphere.

Same here, nearly had myself convinced that I needed the Ipod to do well. Have ran last 2 marathons without the Ipod and now use armband ipod holder for gels.

martins.las

If you had music for pace-setting reasons then happy days and its a great aid but if you're serious about the race and your time, listening to a podcast or something to take your mind off the race is probably not the best idea as you'll need to keep focused. It's more a distraction for people running for the fun of it; albeit rather risky for health and safety.

RayCun

I wear an iPod in training, and I wore one to my first race, but not since then.

In training runs you're on your own. you could be bored - especially on a long LSR. You could be demotivated, when you're trying to keep a consistent pace, or run an extra mile. You might want to be distracted.

In a race, you're surrounded by people. There's lots to see and hear - and lots that it's important to hear, such as the person about to overtake you, or the idiot on a bike. You're not going to get bored. Your motivation shouldn't be a problem - you have a target right in front of you. If you need distraction there's plenty around, but you should be trying to focus more on your run.

Krusty_Clown

+1. Used one for my first marathon, have never used one in a race since, and have absolutely no regrets. I actually dropped it at mile 22 in that marathon, adding to my overall distress levels. I missed out on so much that day. It adds little, but takes away so much.

pudgeydev

Thanks for that, I suppose it's a crutch at the moment, that it's seen me through my LSR's so far and when I run without it I find the going tougher. I know it is great to have the crowd and it does help bring you along but I don't know do I fully accept that the crowd getting behind us will surpass any benefit I'd get from having the ipod.
To be honest if I do use it I won't use it the whole way through, just a couple of miles 22-24, the real tough ones.

liamo123

pudgeydev wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback lads.
I don’t get why people don’t understand ipods in a race.
It seems odd to me that the advice for marathon day regarding what you eat/drink beforehand, clothing, gels, water intake etc is “Do what you do in your LSR’s”, and this is accepted by everyone. Why is this different is for listening to ipods, where the majority of advice is “DON’T DO IT!”?
If I’ve done 16-18-20mile LSR’s with an ipod, doing 26 miles without one is completely different situation, isn’t it?
I understand the whole race situation where obviously you shouldn’t have it on in the first couple miles or where there’s a crowd around you.
I’m happy enough to chat to people but in those last few miles, if I could get lost in a conversation someone else is having on an ipod rather than thinking “Oh lord, there’s 4 miles left, 4 WHOLE MILES, you’ll never do it, never, may as well walk a little bit, just a little”!

Can I offer a compromise..Why not bring ur Ipod but dont turn it on until the last say 6 or 7 miles..It will then give u the boost u need and help with those last important miles..Also the crowds will not b as tightly packed as earlier..It works 4 me

nerraw1111

If you wear the ipod in the marathon, you'll miss out on the incredible experience of random people shouting encouragement at you every step of the way.

The crowd is a far better boost than any song. It really is quite heartening to have a random person look you in the eye and roar at you to keep going. It is awesome. Of course, you don't believe them when they say you're looking great and you're almost there!

But I can see your point that if you've spend the last 3 months using the ipod on long runs, running without is a daunting proposal.

From a fellow competitor point of view, ipod runners, on occassion, wreck my head. They step in front of you and are oblivious to their surroundings. Quite frustrating.

bart simpson

i train with a mp3 player but never race with one, when the going gets tough and i have to grit my teeth....music in my ears becomes a real distraction and gets annoying....actually i cant even ware an ipod during speedwork training

RoyMcC

+1 for the 'in training if you like, never in races' vote.

I was recording at the end of the Jersey Marathon yesterday and it was a total nuisance trying to get iPod wearers' attention, to display their number, for example. Almost had to rugby tackle them :mad: That will have applied more pertinently out on the course where they will have been oblivious to marshals' instructions, traffic etc.

Tipp man running

I'm another for the ipod for long runs in training but not for racing. It can be very boring doing long runs on the endless straights i use so its nice to listen to music. But on race day you have a fab atmosphere, great support and plenty to see so why miss out on all that.

pudgeydev

I'll bring along the ipod but won't use it til I feel I'm struggling and the crowd isn't doing it for me!People are very harsh on ipod users, i'll be considerate of other runners if i do use it, no veering!!

RoyMcC

pudgeydev wrote: »

I'll bring along the ipod but won't use it til I feel I'm struggling and the crowd isn't doing it for me!People are very harsh on ipod users, i'll be considerate of other runners if i do use it, no veering!!

Even if the race rules disallow it?

Condo131

I'm running Dublin this year - my 16th time in all, but only my second Dublin in 11 years. In the meantime, I've been at all the other Dublin's, either providing active support to club-members (and others), or helping out at feed stations.

My headphones observations:
1. A headphone wearer has CAUSED a mass fall (56 people) at the start of one Dublin.
2. Headphone wearers do not hear the calls/shouts of those around them in close areas (in particular the first mile or so, when everyone is "pumped up")
3. Headphone wearers cause mayhem at the feed stations - people make sudden movements in any direction and the headphone wearers just don't hear the calls.
4. Lots of headphone wearers have their names on their vests (to invite support) - it's a pure waste of time! They just do NOT hear the support calls! Every year, particularly in the last few miles, we've had big support groups and, when we see someone, no matter who they are, with their name on their vest, we shout their name. NONE of the headphone wearers seem to hear the calls at all , so now we don't bother with them.

On the last point. If headphone wearers cannot hear groups of 20+ calling their name, they are certainly going to have problems with other calls.

So, if you're thinking about running Dublin with your headphones, I'd recommend thinking again. You won't savour the atmosphere. Do yourself a favour, leave the 'phones at home and enjoy the buzz!

Barty

I was in a similar position this time last year, had done all my training with an ipod and felt I could not run without one. The day before DCM '09 I decided I would bring one with me but not turn it on unless I really felt I needed it. I was shocked to find that there were people lining the streets from the start to the finish. With no headphones in you can chat with other runners, be it only one or two words but I found it to be much more motivating that any song. I ended up getting rid of my ipod around the 22 mile mark. The last 4 miles to the finish line were 4 of the most enjoyable miles I did last year - never mind the pain, enjoy the buzz of the day and the random words of encouragement being shouted at you - if you're listening to music/podcasts you will miss all this.

tHE vAGGABOND

I have only recently started to run without music, at night, as its too dangerous! During weekend runs in the morning in phoenix park, Im all about my music

Im going to try the Simon 5 mile on Saturday with no music, as I dont want to hurt some poor kid at the start in their race at the start, as I heard its utter mayhem for the first mile or so

I just find it strange to adapt to longer runs without music, lonely is the wrong word, but I cant think of a better one right now.

TFBubendorfer

tHE vAGGABOND wrote: »

I just find it strange to adapt to longer runs without music, lonely is the wrong word, but I cant think of a better one right now.

peaceful?

RubyK

I always trained with my ipod, and had myself convinced that I wouldn't be able to manage a mile, let alone further without one. After signing up to the Dungarvan 10 last January, I found out music players were banned. I was in a panic, and was convinced I'd run a stinker without the distraction of music. On the day, I had one of the most enjoyable runs ever - a PB by 5 mins - and I've never used an ipod in a race since.

I think it's easy to get used to having it, and convincing yourself you really need it on race day. Whereas, the atmosphere and support from others is ten times more beneficial than any ipod (imo!) .

plodder

I used to use an iPod when training, but never for racing, for all the reasons above. I don't even train with one now and prefer to be a bit more in tune with my surroundings.

BrokenMan

Another one for the wear it in training but not in racing camp. Although I woudl usually only wear it for the longer training runs whne I am on my own, if I am running with others then no way.
even at that some morning if I am out early on the quiet county roads I will leave it at home, It can be a real peaceful experience just you, with the only sound your breathing and the sound of your feet hitting the road.

Micilin Muc

Running to music upsets my rhythm, especially in terms of breathing. I much prefer to concentrate on my form.

TFBubendorfer

I think it's quite telling that we had quite a few runners saying they used an mp3 player/ipod for their first marathon and never since.

On the other hand there was not one single runner who claimed to have run their first marathon without music and subsequently changed their mind for the next one.

Cartman78

Surprised there aren't more pro-MP3 posts -- these types of threads are normally 50-50.

Maybe people are finally getting the message that being in a music trance in a mass participation sporting event ain't that clever?

pudgeydev

RoyMcC wrote: »

Even if the race rules disallow it?

Ipod's aren't banned for DCM as far as I'm aware.

From my point of view, to wear an ipod at the start of a race where there are crowds and people are vying for position is just rude and dangerous.
But i'm talking about putting on an ipod 20miles into a marathon, on a dual carriageway/area where there's plenty of room, when you're finding it tough and you want to change your mindset from concentrating on how tough things are to something different, and if an ipod helps then it helps.

The whole ipod usage in general thing is a different conversation, i'm asking if someone always uses an ipod for 18 weeks training and on race day you don't have that any more, surely that's a huge difference?

RayCun

pudgeydev wrote: »

i'm asking if someone always uses an ipod for 18 weeks training and on race day you don't have that any more, surely that's a huge difference?

Although your preparation for race day should try to mimic it physically - same clothes, same food, getting up at the same time - mentally it's a whole other thing. The buzz you get from walking to the start line, seeing all the other runners converge with you, standing around beforehand waiting for the gun, the sensation of running in a crowd... it's all very different from a training run. I haven't run a marathon before but even in a much smaller race, of just a few hundred people, running a race feels very different from a training run.
(this is one reason why it's a good idea to get some race experience in before the marathon, but it's too late now...)

If you really feel you're going to need the ipod, then bring it. But don't wear it from the start, keep it in your pocket. And then if at some point in the race you think you really need to drown out the rest of the world with some music, only then put it on.

Peckham

pudgeydev wrote: »

Ipod's aren't banned for DCM as far as I'm aware.

Correct, they're not banned....but they should be.

pudgeydev wrote: »

From my point of view, to wear an ipod at the start of a race where there are crowds and people are vying for position is just rude and dangerous.
But i'm talking about putting on an ipod 20miles into a marathon, on a dual carriageway/area where there's plenty of room, when you're finding it tough and you want to change your mindset from concentrating on how tough things are to something different, and if an ipod helps then it helps.

At 20 miles there are crowds and people vying for position, so this argument doesn't stack up. For example, the stretch from 21 to 22 miles, along the N11 dual-carriageway is actually run on the hard shoulder whilst the road remains open to traffic moving at 80kph. From what I recall this is about 10 foot wide, and can get quite congested in the middle of the field. Factor into this two sharp turns on the UCD flyover (with a couple of kerbs for good measure).

At the 25 mile point just before the course swings onto Westland Row, there is a stretch where the crowds are on the road, and you may have less than 6 foot of road to work with when you and those around you are dying on your feet.

There are points in the race where an ipod is less dangerous, but it's never safe.

pudgeydev wrote: »

The whole ipod usage in general thing is a different conversation, i'm asking if someone always uses an ipod for 18 weeks training and on race day you don't have that any more, surely that's a huge difference?

I use it for some training sessions, particularly long runs. However, what you don't have on training sessions is hundreds of people lining the road, and that's what makes a huge difference in the marathon.


You may feel like some of us here are having a go at you for wearing an iPod due to personal taste, but my main argument is simply that it's very dangerous, and in my opinion should be banned in all races.

pudgeydev

To me some of the responses have been over the top, you’d swear the second someone puts on an Ipod they start veering wildly around the road taking out runners like bowling pins. I do agree with some of the points mentioned, wearing an ipod at the start/end of a race etc but it's a different topic that I deliberately didn’t want to get into in this thread.

What I wanted to see from this is other people’s experiences, who have been using an ipod for their 18 weeks training, and who find it helpful for their long runs. Do you think/have you experienced, that the crowds and the fact that it’s a major event etc will mean that you won’t need your ipod or have you struggled without it considering that you’ve used it over all your training?

donothoponpop

<mod- Op this is going nowhere. You asked for opinions, you got them, its too bad if you don't like the opinions you've heard. Thread locked>