how safe are people's savings?

Backard_Pell

very simple question, I saw the same question raised before here on different threads, but not put as directly as this.... can the government tap into people's savings if it is forced to?
For example, if someone's life savings are in An Post savings bonds, is there any way that legislation could be passed, enabling the dept of Finance to take percentage of their savings to plug the national deficit?

The thought of this is very concerning, forgive me if this sounds ridiculous, but nothing would surprise me at this stage.

The_Honeybadger

Backard_Pell wrote: »

very simple question, I saw the same question raised before here on different threads, but not put as directly as this.... can the government tap into people's savings if it is forced to?
For example, if someone's life savings are in An Post savings bonds, is there any way that legislation could be passed, enabling the dept of Finance to take percentage of their savings to plug the national deficit?

The thought of this is very concerning, forgive me if this sounds ridiculous, but nothing would surprise me at this stage.

That is called theft, pure and simple. A tax or levy on savings is more likely.

MrDarcy

mickeyk wrote: »

That is called theft, pure and simple. A tax or levy on savings is more likely.

Not if it is legislated for and the OP has a genuine concern. The government currently has a 10 Euro a year tax on all ATM cards as far as I'm aware. What would be there to stop them from increasing that from 10 Euro to 100 Euro or 1000 Euro a year???

As the OP has said, nothing would surprise any of us at this stage, this government are like a family of cornered rats and could try anything at this stage.

Stinicker

Expropriation like this has happened in many countries and will happen in Ireland also. After the collapse of the USSR in 89/90 many of the CIS states (Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia etc.) expropriated their citizens savings and replaced them with worthless state bonds. They only got their money back mid decade 2005/2006 and got back the exact sum expropriated back in 1990 without any interest and they had lost a fortune in real terms both from lost interest and inflation sharply devaluing the value of their savings.

This will happen here and anybody with large sums of money should move it offshore asap if they have not done it already. Keep only what you can afford to lose in Ireland to be honest.

Backard_Pell

thanks for the reply, I thought as much.... expropriation might be the only option left for the government.
I wonder could someone please explain the easiest and most efficient way of moving money offshore for the ordinary man in the street, who may have his life savings in bonds or in a deposit account. This is something that most people have never done, and most people here would be afraid to do because they wouldn't know or fully trust the proceedure.
Thanks in advance

ei.sdraob

Backard_Pell wrote: »

thanks for the reply, I thought as much.... expropriation might be the only option left for the government.

I dont see them going down the expropriation route (they cant be that evil i hope)

BUT

I could see a bank run which would make alot of people realise quickly that the guarantees are not worth the paper they are written, in this scenarios you might endup being paid in IOUs (aka bonds)

so same end result from depositors point of view


the question at the end of the day is the wrong one to be asking
what you should be asking is:
"how much confidence is left in the banking system by the common Séamus and Máire "

without confidence and trust the banking system would be exposed for what it is...

so yeh keep an eye on confidence

kevteljeur

"Dearest sir,
My name is Patrick Murphy from Ireland. At one time I was a wealthy property developer, but now due to unforseen circumstance, all this have been taken from me. I am left with some of my wealth which I am attempting to move to a safe place and to avoid taxes and nationalisation of the banking system by EVIL FORCES. I believe you are a trustworthy man, GOD BLESS, and I wish to ask if you would assist in the transfer.

If it would be agreeable to you I wish to move 2.7 million EURO MONIES to your account for safe-keeping, after which I will move to my account. You may keep 10% OF THE TOTAL AMOUNT IN YOUR ACCOUNT FOR YOU TO DO WITH AS YOU WISH

(etc)"


(Somewhere in Lagos, a man rages: "Another Irish man looking to move his money around! Bloody scammers!")



k

BeeDI

Stinicker wrote: »

Expropriation like this has happened in many countries and will happen in Ireland also. After the collapse of the USSR in 89/90 many of the CIS states (Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia etc.) expropriated their citizens savings and replaced them with worthless state bonds. They only got their money back mid decade 2005/2006 and got back the exact sum expropriated back in 1990 without any interest and they had lost a fortune in real terms both from lost interest and inflation sharply devaluing the value of their savings.

This will happen here and anybody with large sums of money should move it offshore asap if they have not done it already. Keep only what you can afford to lose in Ireland to be honest.

We know absolutely, that the Irish banks are bust, and the country is bust. Therefore we can say, better keep our cash off shore.
Trouble is, there is quite a degree of uncertainty about much of Europes banks. Even some of the big German banks, may well be hiding underlying problems .......... rumored catastrophic exposure to Greece. It's officialy said that all of a sudden Greece has had a road to Damascus moment, and now reports it's fiscal situation truthfully! Not bloody likely! The Greeks have basically, called the German's bluff, and said, keep financing our way out of this hole, or we will force you to realize your banking systems exposure to our problems.
Devil you know, might well be as reliable as the devil you don't know.

Fat_Fingers

Backard_Pell wrote: »

I wonder could someone please explain the easiest and most efficient way of moving money offshore for the ordinary man in the street, who may have his life savings in bonds or in a deposit account.

contact Beverley Flynn , she has a vast experience in this field

Scofflaw

BeeDI wrote: »

We know absolutely, that the Irish banks are bust, and the country is bust. Therefore we can say, better keep our cash off shore.
Trouble is, there is quite a degree of uncertainty about much of Europes banks. Even some of the big German banks, may well be hiding underlying problems .......... rumored catastrophic exposure to Greece. It's officialy said that all of a sudden Greece has had a road to Damascus moment, and now reports it's fiscal situation truthfully! Not bloody likely! The Greeks have basically, called the German's bluff, and said, keep financing our way out of this hole, or we will force you to realize your banking systems exposure to our problems.
Devil you know, might well be as reliable as the devil you don't know.

German banks are quite famously exposed to Ireland, if it comes to it. The Germans are bailing out Hypo to the same sort of figure that we're bailing out Anglo, and that's because Hypo bought Defra, a German company based in Ireland with huge exposure to Irish property loans...which might explain why the Germans sometimes get a little testy about us also borrowing the money to bail out our own banks, which ultimately often comes from Fran and Hans' savings accounts.

As long as the EU is not disposed to let us go down the swannee, though, there's unlikely to be a wholesale collapse of Ireland's systems, and unless that happens, it's probably a better bet to keep your money slightly closer to home, since there's at least some comeback here, and if the brown stuff hits the fan all over, you'll probably find that national governments will look after their own citizens first.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Justin Collery

Scofflaw wrote: »

you'll probably find that national governments will look after their own citizens first.

stop, stop, your teasing us now, not in Ireland, own...citizens...first, bwaa ha ha ha

Backard_Pell

Backard_Pell wrote: »

I wonder could someone please explain the easiest and most efficient way of moving money offshore for the ordinary man in the street, who may have his life savings in bonds or in a deposit account. This is something that most people have never done, and most people here would be afraid to do because they wouldn't know or fully trust the proceedure.
Thanks in advance

bump....
any advice on this one?

Scofflaw

jcollery wrote: »

stop, stop, your teasing us now, not in Ireland, own...citizens...first, bwaa ha ha ha

What's disturbing is that it didn't actually cross my mind that that could be read as Ireland looking after Irish citizens - what I meant was that the other countries would probably look after their citizens...

cordially,
Scofflaw

Backard_Pell

looks as if very few, if any here have moved money offshore... I was thinking of 2 options, Canada or Northern Ireland

Justin Collery

Backard_Pell wrote: »

looks as if very few, if any here have moved money offshore... I was thinking of 2 options, Canada or Northern Ireland

I've done this. I set up an account in Germany in a German bank. It's not trivial. First off most European banks will not open an account for you unless you are resident in that country. Second, when you find a bank that will you will need a referral letter from your Irish bank to introduce you to the German bank, paper work, takes a while, not a big deal. Then to actually open the account you have lots and lots and lots of forms, in German, in triplicate. Sending the money to the account is pretty easy, an interpay form, takes about 2 days to get across.

These banks have no ATM machines in Ireland, no branches. If what you are protecting yourself against happens, i.e. the melt down of Irish banks, how will you get your cash? Drive to Germany? Going down this route is really for companies or those with spare cash.

A better option is to open an account with Rabo or Nationwide UK. They are covered by the Dutch and English deposit protection schemes and are geographically the two closest.

Having said all that, and disclosed I have already done this, it's really very very very very unlikely. Nobody in Greece has lost a cent in their bank account yet. The moment there is a sniff of depositors loosing money, either the EU steps in, or exchange controls go up over night, and thats step 1 of the break up of the Euro. If it did happen, and it can become a self fulfilling prophecy, my belief is that the Germans have too much to loose, both in terms of cold hard cash today, and also in future damage to their export sector, to let the Euro fail. It is possible, but right now you are looking at .01% possibility.

Having said that, you want your offshore accounts in place before the sh1t hits the fan, it will be to late once things start moving.

dan_d

I'm told Rabobank is a good one, however I've nothing to back that up but anecdotal tales.
They seem to be pretty easy to do business with too.

ardmacha

There is a bit of scaremongering here. The government is mainly in trouble because of a willingness to pay off Anglo bond holders. If push comes to shove they'll shaft them before depositors as they don't vote.

jimmycrackcorm

Stinicker wrote: »

This will happen here and anybody with large sums of money should move it offshore asap if they have not done it already. Keep only what you can afford to lose in Ireland to be honest.

I think people indulging in scaremongering should back up their statements with some hard facts. Comparing the CIS states activities is akin to saying that we'll be cutting off thieves hands as punishment because mountjoy is full and anyway some states such as Saudi Arabia have done this.

Backard_Pell

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I think people indulging in scaremongering should back up their statements with some hard facts. Comparing the CIS states activities is akin to saying that we'll be cutting off thieves hands as punishment because mountjoy is full and anyway some states such as Saudi Arabia have done this.

There are no hard facts, and the day there is will probably be too late... isn't it better that you are aware of any possible negative consequenses, now that there is time to act? Are you willing to sit there and wait... particularly given the track record of the government and banks to date. Sorry mate, too much at risk here

Stinicker

Backard_Pell wrote: »

bump....
any advice on this one?

You can deposit your savings to UBS in Switzerland and open a deposit account. You will need references also from an Irish Bank, this is easy enough. You will get less Interest with the money than in Ireland but you get security unlike here. Minimum deposit is about €15k to €20 depending on the Swiss Franc deposit rate, although your account will be denominated in Euro, you can choose several currencies.

Another option is Singapore, but most banks over there require you to be present. The best option for those with alot of money is to split it to a few places as this will limit your exposure in the event of a transcontinental global financial meltdown or another World War.

There is also DIRT and tax implications for people doing this, but I couldn't really give two fiddlers to be honest considering the shower of criminals in charge, because as far as I am concerned Ireland is a failed state no different to Somalia with no law and order and so long as no messes with me then the world is rosy; god help those who come after my few schillings and pence though.

Mr. Loverman

Backard_Pell wrote: »

I wonder could someone please explain the easiest and most efficient way of moving money offshore for the ordinary man in the street, who may have his life savings in bonds or in a deposit account.

Sure, I can explain what I did.

1. Go to http://www.keytradebank.com/en/banking (a profitable Belgian bank). Read the details to be sure you are happy with them. Note the interest isn't spectacularly high, but like me I assume you are more concerned with wealth protection rather than wealth generation.
2. Click the "Open an account" link on the right.
3. Fill in the details and print the form. You need to include a photocopy of your passport (both sides) and a bill or bank statement which proves your address.
4. Send the documents by post.
5. A few days later your account will be opened. They will send you three letters containing your username, etc.
6. Transfer your money into your Keytrade account.

This is what I have done and I have had no problems so far. Note I don't think the **** will hit the can until around Easter of next year, so you have time.

rumour

ardmacha wrote: »

There is a bit of scaremongering here. The government is mainly in trouble because of a willingness to pay off Anglo bond holders. If push comes to shove they'll shaft them before depositors as they don't vote.

:pac: Yea and those scaremongering people should go away and commit suicide, I think I heard somewhere before. Were all heading for voting another Bertie in the form of Eamon Gilmore. Knows what he's not going to do but hasn't a clue what he is going to do, all he has to do is promise it'll all be better.
By the time they're finished yoursavings will be needed for the greater social good.

Realistically though I think they'll float the idea in some form or another in the future (perhaps when the next bond auction exposes that we are at the mercy of loan sharks) then panic will set in, this in turn will trigger the run on the banks. Creating a whole new crisis that of course the political class will scuabble about and ultimately formulate the position supported by the Irish times that they're all tax dodgers. Permitting in the name of the state more extreme versions of wealth reapportioning.

If you have savings be prepared to give them up for your masters in the labour party.

cavedave

Professors Tyler Cowen
Why

does anyone keep his or her money, in any sizable amount, in an Irish bank when you can have a euro-denominated account in a German or English bank?

thebman

How safe are peoples savings?

As safe as houses!

/gets coat :P

Seriously the comments on the website in the post above mine explain why there is less of a reason to be worried than many see.

European banks are all intertwined at this stage and we will most likely all sink together if we do sink. The German's bank were lending to Greek and Irish banks and are overexposed to the point that it will have to get very bad for Germany and the rest of the so called economic sound countries to pull the plug.

ei.sdraob

thebman wrote: »

How safe are peoples savings?

As safe as houses!

/gets coat :P

Seriously the comments on the website in the post above mine explain why there is less of a reason to be worried than many see.

European banks are all intertwined at this stage and we will most likely all sink together if we do sink. The German's bank were lending to Greek and Irish banks and are overexposed to the point that it will have to get very bad for Germany and the rest of the so called economic sound countries to pull the plug.

Who says that Ireland/Greece etc get kicked out of euro? Germany could be the one to walk away ... just thinking out loud

thebman

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Who says that Ireland/Greece etc get kicked out of euro? Germany could be the one to walk away ... just thinking out loud

Yes but if Germany walks away the Euro will in all likelihood collapse in which case Germany has little chance of getting its money back either.

Like it or not (and the German's seem not to), we are better off working through much of this debt problem together rather than turning on each other.

Cool Mo D

Explain how we could get kicked out of the euro? It isn't actually possible.

It is possible for us to leave, but that's incredibly unlikely too.

If I were some posters here, I would stop worrying about deposits, which will be fine, and start thinking about the massive cost of bailing out the banks, cutting the deficit, and getting people back to work, which is an actual serious issue.

irishh_bob

Backard_Pell wrote: »

looks as if very few, if any here have moved money offshore... I was thinking of 2 options, Canada or Northern Ireland

you cant open a bank account in northern ireland unless your a resident of the uk

as for germany , my sister was over there for nearly a week and enquired in several banks about opening an account , same answer

if you cant open an account in either of those countries , i doubt you can in canada

i was provided with this line to an online belgian bank on askabout money

http://www.keytradebank.com/

cavedave

Cool Mo D many economics commentators think us leaving the euro is possible.

The only thing that is clear to me at this point is that if Ireland can't make it, they'll have to bail on the euro.

Megan McArdle

I would stop worrying about deposits, which will be fine, and start thinking about the massive cost of bailing out the banks, cutting the deficit, and getting people back to work, which is an actual serious issue.

There is no point worrying about something unless you can do something about it. The unlikely event of your savings being lost from Ireland leaving the euro you can do something about. Our government bailing out the banks you cannot.

Mr. Loverman

cavedave wrote: »

Our government bailing out the banks you cannot.

Well like me and many others you can emigrate...

On principle I don't want to contribute a cent towards the bank bailout.

newmug

What about starting a company in Switzerland? I heard something about being able to register all your assets in the company name, money, house, car etc. It would overcome a lot of problems seeing as they dont disclose tax info to other countries. Apparently even wills can be executed without worrying about capital gains etc. Did anyone else hear about this?

And to think only a few years ago, the baxtards were giving US money with the SSIA:eek:

thebman

I personally cannot see leaving the Euro as a possiblity. I think many Irish people see it as our only real connection to Europe other than a few signs on infrastructure projects.

I think foreign speculators don't see what the Euro represents to Ireland.

Or else I don't represent my fellow countrymen :P

Personally I'll take the pain to save the Euro but punish the parties that lead us down this road which was avoidable through sensible policies. We should be one of the sensible countries trying to help the clowns of Europe. I have a problem with my country being a clown run by Cowen :P

I'm also registered to vote in his constinuency BTW and live a few miles from him so I don't think people should quite give up on the people to push for change as I will not be giving that man a preference next time round regardless of a bypass for Tullamore ....

I'm not that cheap :P

ardmacha

you cant open a bank account in northern ireland unless your a resident of the uk

Nonsense. You simply need the usual proof of address. But a sterling account has currency risk and charges.

Leaving the Euro is not feasible and would cause more problems than it would solve. The State can default,but that doesn't mean leaving the Euro.

There is a great deal of scaremongering here, I very much doubt that the ECB is happy to have a run on banks in a Euro country and given that Ireland has made reasonable efforts to keep things in order.

Scofflaw

ardmacha wrote: »

Nonsense. You simply need the usual proof of address. But a sterling account has currency risk and charges.

Leaving the Euro is not feasible and would cause more problems than it would solve. The State can default,but that doesn't mean leaving the Euro.

There is a great deal of scaremongering here, I very much doubt that the ECB is happy to have a run on banks in a Euro country and given that Ireland has made reasonable efforts to keep things in order.

Indeed, at the moment, the government, far from dipping into anybody's bank account, is guaranteeing their savings in the case of any bank collapse - and obviously there would need to be some pretty extraordinary circumstances involved for the current government to turn the whole 180 degrees on the issue. A government that did reverse that policy and put its hands in the bank accounts of its citizens could kiss its re-election chances goodbye for a very long time indeed, as well as any chance of FDI.

It seems to me that the rather extreme circumstances which people have conjured up here imply a complete breakdown of Irish society, with a democratic government replaced by some form of arbitrary autocracy (a popular belief in certain quarters at all times). Under those circumstances, having your money in a foreign institution is probably a liability unless you're actually going to flee the country.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Justin Collery

Scofflaw wrote: »

It seems to me that the rather extreme circumstances which people have conjured up here imply a complete breakdown of Irish society

It seem to be entirely likely that we will end up between one of two places. A fully integrated, fiscal union with central taxation and debt raising powers. That is the logical conclusion of the current crises. It definitively solves the current problem and ensures it will never happen again. Currency union is a precursor to fiscal union which demands political union. I believe this is how Germany came to be.

If that does not happen it is entirely likely that the Euro could break up. Generally it's the sugar daddy that walks from the party, not the poor cousin. We may not be thrown out of the Euro, the Germans will get tired of it and leave. While I think this is unlikely, if fiscal union is politically unacceptable, it's the only other option.

Neither of these options imply the complete breakdown of Irish society, but one of them gives a company or individual an incentive for an insurance policy against a devalued punt nua.

irishh_bob

ardmacha wrote: »

Nonsense. You simply need the usual proof of address. But a sterling account has currency risk and charges.

Leaving the Euro is not feasible and would cause more problems than it would solve. The State can default,but that doesn't mean leaving the Euro.

There is a great deal of scaremongering here, I very much doubt that the ECB is happy to have a run on banks in a Euro country and given that Ireland has made reasonable efforts to keep things in order.

sorry , perhaps i dont know the secret handshake , i rang ulster bank , barclays and hsbc in the past week and was told by all three that you have to be a resident of the uk or northern ireland to open an account

ei.sdraob

irishh_bob wrote: »

sorry , perhaps i dont know the secret handshake , i rang ulster bank , barclays and hsbc in the past week and was told by all three that you have to be a resident of the uk or northern ireland to open an account

No you dont, you were ringing the wrong branches? you need to be looking at the "offshore" parts of these companies/


* Ulster Bank - just walk into a branch I did it few weeks back, unless you want to open in UK branch

* HSBC Offshore - meet the min deposit criteria and send required documentation, you get American Express debit card to access your money, accounts can be in several currencies, the web interface is quite good
* Barclays Wealth see here fairly similar to HSBC it seems
* Lloyds same as above

irishh_bob

jcollery wrote: »

I've done this. I set up an account in Germany in a German bank. It's not trivial. First off most European banks will not open an account for you unless you are resident in that country. Second, when you find a bank that will you will need a referral letter from your Irish bank to introduce you to the German bank, paper work, takes a while, not a big deal. Then to actually open the account you have lots and lots and lots of forms, in German, in triplicate. Sending the money to the account is pretty easy, an interpay form, takes about 2 days to get across.

These banks have no ATM machines in Ireland, no branches. If what you are protecting yourself against happens, i.e. the melt down of Irish banks, how will you get your cash? Drive to Germany? Going down this route is really for companies or those with spare cash.

A better option is to open an account with Rabo or Nationwide UK. They are covered by the Dutch and English deposit protection schemes and are geographically the two closest.

Having said all that, and disclosed I have already done this, it's really very very very very unlikely. Nobody in Greece has lost a cent in their bank account yet. The moment there is a sniff of depositors loosing money, either the EU steps in, or exchange controls go up over night, and thats step 1 of the break up of the Euro. If it did happen, and it can become a self fulfilling prophecy, my belief is that the Germans have too much to loose, both in terms of cold hard cash today, and also in future damage to their export sector, to let the Euro fail. It is possible, but right now you are looking at .01% possibility.

Having said that, you want your offshore accounts in place before the sh1t hits the fan, it will be to late once things start moving.

an account with rabbo ireland is not at all the same as having an account with rabbo in the netherlands , were ireland to exit the euro in the morning , having ones money in rabbo would not save you , i rang rabbo a week ago and enquired as to whether i could fly over to amsterdam and open an account with rabbo over there , NO , you have to be a dutch citizen

irishh_bob

ei.sdraob wrote: »

No you dont, you were ringing the wrong branches? you need to be looking at the "offshore" parts of these companies/


* Ulster Bank - just walk into a branch I did it few weeks back, unless you want to open in UK branch

* HSBC Offshore - meet the min deposit criteria and send required documentation, you get American Express debit card to access your money, accounts can be in several currencies, the web interface is quite good
* Barclays Wealth see here fairly similar to HSBC it seems
* Lloyds same as above

since were discussing money here , when i speak of northern ireland , i regard it as part of the uk , therefore when i say i wish to open a bank account in ulster bank in newry , that means i want to open a bank account in the uk , i was told i cannot do this by two different ulster bank branches in northern ireland in the past week

ps , hsbc comes across as one of those kayman island type deals , im not interested in tax evasion

BeeDI

irishh_bob wrote: »

sorry , perhaps i dont know the secret handshake , i rang ulster bank , barclays and hsbc in the past week and was told by all three that you have to be a resident of the uk or northern ireland to open an account

Thing is, the whole global bank system, is so interconnected, and dependent on each other, that putting money in say a UK bank, or as someone on here has done a Belgian bank, is nothing more than chancing your arm.
Speaking about Belgium ............. possibly one of the potentially most unstable plitical entities in the Euro zone!!! Check it out. It is a very fractious country, with deep distrust between the Flemish and Walloon entities there.
Have a read of the following verse, and think of it as a ditty about the Euro banks

Dem bones, dem bones, dem dry bones,
Dem bones, dem bones, dem dry bones,
Dem bones, dem bones, dem dry bones,
Now shake dem skeleton bones!

The toe bone's connected to the foot bone,
The foot bone's connected to the ankle bone,
The ankle bone's connected to the leg bone,
Now shake dem skeleton bones!

The leg bone's connected to the knee bone,
The knee bone's connected to the thigh bone,
The thigh bone's connected to the hip bone,
Now shake dem skeleton bones!

Dem bones, dem bones, dem dry bones,
Dem bones, dem bones, dem dry bones,
Dem bones, dem bones, dem dry bones,
Now shake dem skeleton bones!

The hip bone's connected to the back bone
The back bone's connected to the neck bone,
The neck bone's connected to the head bone,
Now shake dem skeleton bones!

The finger bone's connected to the hand bone,
The hand bone's connected to the arm bone,
The arm bone's connected to the shoulder bone,
Now shake dem skeleton bones!

Dem bones, dem bones gonna walk around
Dem bones, dem bones, gonna walk around
Dem bones, dem bones, gonna walk around
Now shake dem skeleton bones!

irishconvert

Forget about banks, buy gold, it is going up 20% a year for the past 5 years or so and is forecast to double in price. And for God's sake buy real physical gold you can keep in your house, not a certificate for some gold in a vault somewhere which probably doesn't exist.

Justin Collery

irishh_bob wrote: »

an account with rabbo ireland is not at all the same as having an account with rabbo in the netherlands , were ireland to exit the euro in the morning , having ones money in rabbo would not save you , i rang rabbo a week ago and enquired as to whether i could fly over to amsterdam and open an account with rabbo over there , NO , you have to be a dutch citizen

I tried Rabbo in Amsterdam first too, I have friends who live in the 'Dam, but no dice, got the same response as you.

If the Euro were to break up, the first step is exchange controls, essentially a bar stopping large amounts of cash, say greater than €50k leaving the country without authorisation. This would be required to stop capital flight. This would quickly be followed by conversion to the new currency and then a slow lifting of exchange controls.

In this scenario it is the Irish central bank that imposes the controls. Rabo is not governed by the Irish central bank so it would seem to me to be out of control of the Irish authorities and so an effective hedge. I'm open to correction, had I not gone down the road I went, I would have opened an account in Rabo / Nationwide UK etc.

BeeDI

irishconvert wrote: »

Forget about banks, buy gold, it is going up 20% a year for the past 5 years or so and is forecast to double in price. And for God's sake buy real physical gold you can keep in your house, not a certificate for some gold in a vault somewhere which probably doesn't exist.

Something that apprectiates at the rate of 20% per annum, for 5 consecutive years, and is still rising, is possibly / very probably, a bubble about to burst:eek:
The rise of gold, is a consequence of fear about the total financial system. If the thing implodes, using hard gold as a way of buying bread, could be a bit awkward:cool:

irishconvert

BeeDI wrote: »

Something that apprectiates at the rate of 20% per annum, for 5 consecutive years, and is still rising, is possibly / very probably, a bubble about to burst:eek:
The rise of gold, is a consequence of fear about the total financial system. If the thing implodes, using hard gold as a way of buying bread, could be a bit awkward:cool:

No doubt it is a bubble but it is not ready to pop yet. You will know it's time to sell when you hop into a taxi and the driver tells you about the gold he bought. Until then it is a good bet. Look at all the ads for people looking to buy your gold jewellery. When you see ads trying to sell you gold, and the media is hyping it, then it's time to get out.

irishh_bob

irishconvert wrote: »

Forget about banks, buy gold, it is going up 20% a year for the past 5 years or so and is forecast to double in price. And for God's sake buy real physical gold you can keep in your house, not a certificate for some gold in a vault somewhere which probably doesn't exist.

one big problem with gold , its tied to the dollar , even gold were three thousand dollars an ounce this time next year , someone in dublin who bought at on thousand euro an ounce six months ago may see no real gains , the dollar is on a continous slide against the euro and that is not likely to change anytime soon

irishconvert

irishh_bob wrote: »

one big problem with gold , its tied to the dollar , even gold were three thousand dollars an ounce this time next year , someone in dublin who bought at on thousand euro an ounce six months ago may see no real gains , the dollar is on a continous slide against the euro and that is not likely to change anytime soon

What do you mean? Gold is not linked to the dollar at all. The dollar is fiat currency, backed by nothing, that is why they can just keep printing more and more of it.

Mister men

Hard to believe folks still have their hard earned cash in the Banks here. Anyone in the loop has got their money out long ago.

irishh_bob

irishconvert wrote: »

What do you mean? Gold is not linked to the dollar at all. The dollar is fiat currency, backed by nothing, that is why they can just keep printing more and more of it.

sorry , meant its valued in dollars , gold is a good insurance if things really go pear shaped but its not a huge winner for someone who works in euro

username123

Mister men wrote: »

Hard to believe folks still have their hard earned cash in the Banks here. Anyone in the loop has got their money out long ago.

In what loop?

tonedef

irishconvert wrote: »

Forget about banks, buy gold, it is going up 20% a year for the past 5 years or so and is forecast to double in price. And for God's sake buy real physical gold you can keep in your house, not a certificate for some gold in a vault somewhere which probably doesn't exist.

I have thought about the option of buying gold recently but couldn't find a source of information that I felt comfortable with.

Do you have any info you can share on your experience?
Are there many golf brokers (that's probably not the correct term) in Dublin/Ireland?

Cheers

ei.sdraob

irishh_bob wrote: »

ps , hsbc comes across as one of those kayman island type deals , im not interested in tax evasion

its anything but that, just because they have "offshore" in their name :rolleyes: these accounts are very useful for people working internationally

any interest you earn in your account they declare to Revenue as per EU Savings directive