Britain to scrap Child benefits payments to middle class

KINGVictor

Apparently, the coalition government in the Uk are planning to means test the universal child benefit payments. This could potentially mean that families whose income are over a yet to be determined threshold will not recieve this payments any longer.( speculations are that it will be set at £50,000)

Source:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11462986

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1317328/TORY-CONFERENCE-Middle-class-families-face-losing-child-benefit.html



IMHO, I think it is long time coming and quite common sensical in light of the current economic circumstances, the opposition have called the proposed policy an assault on families, an assertion i find laughable considering the huge deficits the country faces.

I think the government in Ireland should introduce similar measures in the upcoming budget and to be honest they should have done so in last years budget- C'mmon what does a family earning over €100,000 with 2 children need CB payments for?

What do ye think?

Hotais

Well said. I completely agree... surely we're due a review here too???:)

squod

The UK gov also haven't spent half their GDP on a poxy bank. Let's start by cutting that first.

Min

I listened in disbelief to Drivetime on Radio 1 last year as Mary Wilson read out texts, one was from a woman whose family earned €100,000 and she said in her text she couldn't afford to take any cuts - think it was a public servant - her husband was a Garda.
Claimed they were finding it hard to make ends meet and they needed everything they got.....

orourkeda

Min wrote: »

I listened in disbelief to Drivetime on Radio 1 last year as Mary Wilson read out texts, one was from a woman whose family earned €100,000 and she said in her text she couldn't afford to take any cuts - think it was a public servant - her husband was a Garda.
Claimed they were finding it hard to make ends meet and they needed everything they got.....

This is the attitude that will eventually kill our country

wmpdd3

Child benefit in UK seems to be £87 a month:

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/life/benefits/benefits_for_families_and_children.htm#child_benefit

For the possible savings, it would more effort to means test every recipient. There was speculation in the press that Ireland might tax it instead as a more cost effective way to do it.

lynski

dont get the means testing thing tho, the gov have all the info on how much people earn from the income tax people, surely there should just be an automatic cut-off point? over 100K = no child benefit unless they can prove they need it. cut it and then let people look for it and prove why they cant survive on 100K.
it is the thing that keeps many of us ticking over and cutting it for everyone will mean so many more cut-off ESB, GAS, cutting back on everything.
Hope they can keep it

Dudess

Calling it an assault on families is like the argument that reintroducing third level fees is discrimination against middle-class/wealthy kids. But I don't see why you shouldn't have to pay for something you can afford.

Red Hand

Those that can't afford to have children will have the most.

KINGVictor

squod wrote: »

The UK gov also haven't spent half their GDP on a poxy bank. Let's start by cutting that first.

True,the government have made errors in their estimations when bailing banks and insuring investors in 2008 but I am talking about moving forward .

You have to understand that as of 2009, child benefit payments cost the excheqeur €2.5 billion which translates to about 12% of the total welfare payments.
If the government can fromulate and implement a means tested CB payment structure, that will result in practical savings that could alternatively be utilised for more pressing financial obligations then I see no issue here.

bryaner

A mate of mine knows a doctor who's wife keeps her children's allowance for shopping trips 3 times a year, something has got to give..

TheZohanS

Jeremiah 16:1 wrote: »

Those that can't afford to have children will have the most.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSROlfR7WTo

ninjasurfer1

KINGVictor wrote: »

You have to understand that as of 2009, child benefit payments cost the excheqeur €2.5 billion which translates to about 12% of the total welfare payments.

Does anyone know the % of this that goes abroad to kids of non nationals living here?

iPlop

Are they not scrapping that here?

Orange69

Dudess wrote: »

Calling it an assault on families is like the argument that reintroducing third level fees is discrimination against middle-class/wealthy kids. But I don't see why you shouldn't have to pay for something you can afford.

Do you see why you shouldn't have something you cant afford? :rolleyes:

All so called child benefits should be scrapped imo. It another factor in the continued degradation of society.

SugarHigh

TheZohan wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSROlfR7WTo

Whoever made that film has no understanding of evolution. Evolution does not favor the strongest, fastest or most intelligent.

As for the prediction that average intelligence will fall.
http://xkcd.com/603/

SugarHigh

ninjasurfer1 wrote: »

Does anyone know the % of this that goes abroad to kids of non nationals living here?

Child benefit is for the kids not the parents so what difference does it make where the parents are from?

KINGVictor

ninjasurfer1 wrote: »

Does anyone know the % of this that goes abroad to kids of non nationals living here?

Actually thats another interesting dimension, as far as I am aware under EU regulations, citizens of the union can get child benefits for children living outside the state as long as they are employed here and pay taxes. I will intuitively imagine that such payments will be a small fraction of the total payment.

Orange69

SugarHigh wrote: »

Evolution does not favor the strongest, fastest or most intelligent.

Not directly. But indirectly, and very much so.

Dudess

Dudess wrote: »

Calling it an assault on families is like the argument that reintroducing third level fees is discrimination against middle-class/wealthy kids. But I don't see why you shouldn't have to pay for something you can afford.

But the whole idea is that they can't afford it, isn't it?

I know that if I had a sudden urge to go to third level education right now, I wouldn't be able to afford it.


Lots of people have kids intentionally to milk the system. There are plenty of ways to avoid having children. If people choose to have kids then that's a decision they're making and they should deal with the consequences of such.

Whilst I'm aware that many people attend third level just because they can, I don't think it's a fair comparison. At all.

RMD

Min wrote: »

I listened in disbelief to Drivetime on Radio 1 last year as Mary Wilson read out texts, one was from a woman whose family earned €100,000 and she said in her text she couldn't afford to take any cuts - think it was a public servant - her husband was a Garda.
Claimed they were finding it hard to make ends meet and they needed everything they got.....

I'm all up for scrapping off these types of subsidies for those who don't need them but do remember just because someone earns a 5 figure wage doesn't mean their getting by comfortably in the recession as well. They've more than likely got mortgages and other expenses to match it.

SugarHigh

Orange69 wrote: »

Not directly. But indirectly, and very much so.

Bacteria isn't very strong, not fast and has zero intelligence but is the most successful life form on earth.

Evolution never favors one specific trait it always favors adaptability.

SugarHigh

RMD wrote: »

I'm all up for scrapping off these types of subsidies for those who don't need them but do remember just because someone earns a 5 figure wage doesn't mean their getting by comfortably in the recession as well. They've more than likely got mortgages and other expenses to match it.

So?

Just because they are managing to easily spend all their money does not mean they need more.

D-Generate

A disastrous proposal and very short-sighted. Europe is experiencing population decline and the problems associated with it already. I am in favour of abolishing child benefits to a large degree and replacing it with a tax incentive. This is the model that is being adopted in France and it is has slowed its rapid fall in population growth and has seen slight rises since it was introduced in 2005.

i_love_toast

why is it the middle class that government here and abroad always seem to target for cuts??

however the op said the cut off point would be £100,000 which in my opinion would not be upper class no?that is a massive wage at the end of the day!

WindSock

Population decline is not such a bad thing.

Orange69

SugarHigh wrote: »

Bacteria isn't very strong, not fast and has zero intelligence but is the most successful life form on earth.

Evolution never favors one specific trait it always favors adaptability.

After a statement like that, its clear you don't really understand evolution. Cant be bothered arguing with you. Do some reading.

KINGVictor

wmpdd3 wrote: »

Child benefit in UK seems to be £87 a month:

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/life/benefits/benefits_for_families_and_children.htm#child_benefit

For the possible savings, it would more effort to means test every recipient. There was speculation in the press that Ireland might tax it instead as a more cost effective way to do it.

Taxing CB benefits will admittedly the easiest option but it is also a very lazy option and would be quite inequitable. So for example if we consider example of two families:

Family 1:

Total earnings- €25,000 (after tax)
Number of Children- 3

Family 2:
Total Earnings- €80,000 (after tax)
Number of children- 3


lets assume that the government decides to introduce an aggregate tax of 5% on CB payments. Both families will under the current rates, will recieve €5844 annually which bring their respective incomes to

Family1 -€30,844

Family 2-€ 85,844

After the CB taxes are introduced their incomes ( considering just CB payments) will be:

Family 1- €30,555 ( approx)
Family 2- €85,518 (approx)

alternatively if the government scrapped CB payments for instance (families with 2 or less children earning over €70,000), it will result in a more reasonable CB payment framework.

D-Generate

WindSock wrote: »

Population decline is not such a bad thing.

Tell that to Japan. Economy is in a spiral since the 80s because the population is too old and not enough youth are coming through to pay taxes for the elderly.

SugarHigh

Orange69 wrote: »

After a statement like that, its clear you don't really understand evolution. Cant be bothered arguing with you. Do some reading.

Survival of the fittest usually makes one think of the biggest, strongest, or smartest individuals being the winners, but in a biological sense, evolutionary fitness refers to the ability to survive and reproduce in a particular environment. Popular interpretations of "survival of the fittest" typically ignore the importance of both reproduction and cooperation. To survive but not pass on one's genes to the next generation is to be biologically unfit. And many organisms are the "fittest" because they cooperate with other organisms, rather than competing with them.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/faq/cat01.html

brianthebard

Deleted User wrote: »

Lots of people have kids intentionally to milk the system. There are plenty of ways to avoid having children. If people choose to have kids then that's a decision they're making and they should deal with the consequences of such.

Define lots plz. A percentage of the whole would be great.