An independent Greater Dublin nation-state

Statehood

I think a long and overdue conversation is due, and that is about the serious proposal for the City of Dublin and its surrounding areas in county Dublin/ North Kildare/ North Wicklow/ Southeast Meath etc. to become its own nation-state (or even city-state).
Why am I suggesting this? Well for a number of reasons, but among them are

(1) the constant abuse hurled at Dublin since the time of independence whether in the deliberate destruction of Georgian/ Victorian Dublin;
(2) The enforcement of the Irish language as a precursor for most of the top jobs in the civil service – be they politicians, lawyers, teachers, clerks, or just about any government job – despite the fact that Irish was never the official language of Dublin and the surrounding area since it was founded by the Vikings and later became a Norman settlement.
(3) The fact that Dublin has a large population; a good port positioned for trading with Britain and Europe; a wealthy economy with it’s own banking and services sector, along with the thousands of business, large and small; great institutions whether they be courts/ universities/ banks / companies both domestic and transnational.
(4) An infrastructure, which despite the best effort of FF politicians to retard and hold back is relatively good – and funded in most part by the revenue raised in the Dublin area.
(5) Good quality agricultural land in county Dublin and the surrounding area. However, agriculture is not as central to economic activity as it used to be.
(6) The removal of Irish as a must to get into many jobs, and simply rely on English – the language of the everyday man – to get into any job that a person wants to without been rejected on the grounds of not been able to speak Irish. This is the case in other English speaking parts of the world such as Britain and the United States, were no language barriers exist to professions. This is discrimination, and economically counterproductive regardless of what most ardent Irish speaking enthusiasts might like to think otherwise.
(7) Most of the building and infrastructure works in Dublin are funded by the revenue raised here. This is contrary to the rest of country were expensive infrastructure is funded regardless of population density, and low revenue levels. The tab is usually picked up by somebody else, often taxpayers in Dublin. This runs contrary to the propaganda, particularly inherent in FF that the rest of the country funds Dublin and gets nothing in turn – which is a blatant lie.
(8) Planning corruption: while I am not suggesting that people in Dublin are not capable of been corrupt with regard to planning, the corruption endemic in FF and FG with regard to planning is astounding. The ties to developers and builders throughout the decades of the 20th and 21st centuries has destroyed much of the country – but Dublin in particular. What’s worse is that many people, whether in power or other parts of the country seem to care little about this.
(9) And many other reasons, I could list here.

I don’t care what anybody says, Dublin has been abused and insulted for too long. It has been damaged by incompetent politicians, and has had a system of government and language imposed on it which was in fact alien to it from its founding under the Vikings. Greater Dublin is more than capable of supporting itself, and would benefit enormously from doing so in terms of politics, economics, planning, standards of living, infrastructural funding and resources and mainly from the great sums of tax euros raised here going back into the upkeep of the place.

I also feel that not only does the rest of the country have little to offer Dublin whether economically, or in any other sense – but even seems to suggest that it is the hand that feeds, which is totally untruthful. Another reason I mention it is because of the dangerous anti-Dublin sentiment which has inflicted so much damage on Dublin and its people for so long. For instance, one need look no further than the arguments around decentralisation, and part of the reasoning behind it – and part of the arguments in favour of support given by rural FF and FG politicians and councillors. Fair enough let there be decentralisation, but let it be actual full decentralisation in that the area of Greater Dublin (which is perfectly capable of self-sufficiency with regard to the rest of this island) should be legally separated, and recognised as it’s own independent state by means of a treaty, and recognised by the EU, United States and elsewhere.

I am putting this argument forward not out of spite, I am not trying to put anybody outside of Greater Dublin down here – merely I would like to express my opinion, which I believe is more than valid, and an opinion which has secretly been given consideration by many people throughout the decades, but has never come up for serious debate.

I also do not intend this thread as a Dublin-vs-Country thread under any circumstance. It is intended for one argument, and one argument only – that is the idea of an independent state. It is also worth noting that it is only in recent history that the notion of all-island statehood, incorporating every single blade of glass within this island into one nation came into force. For most of the island’s history, it was split into hundreds of kingdoms depending on locality. Dublin was also founded as a Viking settlement, and up until the 1920s, did not speak Irish – nor did it demand that those living within its confines do so.

I realise that the thread is a bit deep, but please keep argument as logical and reasonable as possible. And on another note this is NOT about joining up with the UK or any other country as opposed to the Republic of Ireland, just in case anybody gets that notion – it is about a fully independent state of Dublin and its surrounding area. Nor am I suggesting cutting links with the rest of the country bar politics and statehood – I would still believe in co-operation and trade with them as much as we do now, as I would believe in freedom of movement between two such hypothetical states. Please keep that in mind. Thank you.

whatstherush

Hehe funny post.

So you have your SKAG city state, how long before you cuts part of the north side loose, cuase they don't contribute enough tax for your new utopia.

ILA

I believe this post is a seditious/treasonable document. Can someone from the Emergency Services forum arrest and charge this poster?

Offences Against the State Act 1939-1998

10.—(1) It shall not be lawful to set up in type, print, publish, send through the post, distribute, sell, or offer for sale any document—

( a ) which is or contains or includes an incriminating document, or

( b ) which is or contains or includes a treasonable document, or

( c ) which is or contains or includes a seditious document.

Offences Against the State Act 1939-1998

2.-in this Act-

the expression "treasonable document" includes a document which relates directly or indirectly to the commission of treason; the expression "seditious document" includes—

( a ) a document consisting of or containing matter calculated or tending to undermine the public order or the authority of the State, and

( b ) a document which alleges, implies, or suggests or is calculated to suggest that the government functioning under the Constitution is not the lawful government of the State or that there is in existence in the State any body or organisation not functioning under the Constitution which is entitled to be recognised as being the government of the country, and

( c ) a document which alleges, implies, or suggests or is calculated to suggest that the military forces maintained under the Constitution are not the lawful military forces of the State, or that there is in existence in the State a body or organisation not established and maintained by virtue of the Constitution which is entitled to be recognised as a military force, and

( d ) a document in which words, abbreviations, or symbols referable to a military body are used in referring to an unlawful organisation;

mikemac

Probably already there, so many posters from Bray, Ashbourne and Maynooth who commute to "town"

Einhard

That's ok then. We'll keep the Shannon, from which, if memory serves me correct, the Dubs envisage sourcing a large proportion of their water needs in the decades to come. Oh, and minus the 1.5 million inhabitants of your new micro state, there'll be more of the Corrib gas for the rest of us! Huzzah, everyone's a winner!

PeterIanStaker

Totally, loike, agree, roysh.

southsiderosie

What makes you think that Dubs would take any better care of the city?

First, Dublin has a terrible record of historical preservation. The Dublin City Council approved building their new offices on top of the original Viking settlement. If not for citizen intervention, the city would have torn down half of its classical Georgian buildings. Not to mention the wholesale destruction of historical O'Connell street.

I will not comment on the wisdom of building two tram lines that don't even meet.

And of course, the most obvious reason to think that putting Dubs in charge of themselves (or anything, for that matter) would automatically make life better for one and all: Bertie Ahern.

I'll stop there.

Statehood

Einhard wrote: »

That's ok then. We'll keep the Shannon, which if memory serves me correct, the Dubs envisage sourcing a large proportion of their water needs in the decades to come. Oh, and minus the 1.5 million inhabitants of your new micro state, there'll be more of the Corrib gas for the rest of us! Huzzah, everyone's a winner!

In term of overall economics, water supplies from the Shannon, nor the relatively small supply of gas in the corrib seabed counteract the amount of money which Dublin loses relative to the rest of the country in this state. The thousands of businesses, industries, banks etc in Dublin, along with the largest port for trade in the state are much more important economically, and for potential self-sufficiency than a water source supply problem. Water is not going to be a power-broker, nor substitute for gold – even with the piping infrastructure needed to get it from A to B. And i’m sorry to be blunt, but such a scheme would more than likely be funded by Dublin taxpayers regardless – so it doesn’t really make much of a difference.

If the city did need to buy in water, it would not dent the economy as water is hardly a commodity along the lines of gold or oil – it is more like agricultural produce, which is bought and paid for by people now anyway, and which is relatively cheep in relation to price per quantity.

As for the corrib, there is a limited supply of gas there (perhaps a few years worth) - I really cannot see this, or water from the shannon jeopardising Dublin economically, given the tens of billions of euros raised in the region, along with the large commercial and industrial resources with relation it has to the rest of the country.

Statehood

whatstherush wrote: »

Hehe funny post.

So you have your SKAG city state, how long before you cuts part of the north side loose, cuase they don't contribute enough tax for your new utopia.

Hilarious, considering that i'm a northsider born and bred. I'm not even going to get into a SKAG debate here my friend.

Statehood

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

Totally, loike, agree, roysh.

I can assure you my friend that i'm the furthest thing from your caricature above here, what an immature post.

Statehood

ILA wrote: »

I believe this post is a seditious/treasonable document. Can someone from the Emergency Services forum arrest and charge this poster?

You are going overboard my friend, I would like to believe that you were of course joking. And two other things, explain to me

(1) How exactly is this post treasonous or threatening?, and

(2) Where did I say that the government is unlawful, I made no such claim. I merely stated that I believe Dublin deserves to be governed by it's own people and administration.

I also would not condone violence, so I think you are going over the top with this post (that, or your joking).

KeithAFC

Yep. I agree with the OP..

whatstherush

Statehood wrote: »

Hilarious, considering that i'm a northsider born and bred. I'm not even going to get into a SKAG debate here my friend.

But isn't that your argument, you're saying dublin should be an independent state cause its tax base subsidizes the rest of the country. So you have your dublin state, following your logic why should the southside subsidize the north's poorer area's or the souths poorer area's for that mater.

daithicarr

what happens to the vast number of dubliners from outside dublin, are they then foreginers? and their children? off all my dublin freinds, only 3 dont have any if not both non dublin parents.

the vikings did settle here , but the place wasnt empty. and there is plenty of evidence that irish was spoken in dublin and the areas that now constitute dublin, even if it was a very long time ago. not to mind the huge numbers of dubliners who come from or decend from people from more recently speaking irish.

if a certain part of ireland became dominant by non irish or a different language group, should they be allowed to become their own nation.

possibly one of the stupidest ideas i have ever heard.

Iwasfrozen

Statehood wrote: »

You are going overboard my friend, I would like to believe that you were of course joking. And two other things, explain to me

(1) How exactly is this post treasonous or threatening?, and

(2) Where did I say that the government is unlawful, I made no such claim. I merely stated that I believe Dublin deserves to be governed by it's own people and administration.

I also would not condone violence, so I think you are going over the top with this post (that, or your joking).

To be fair, calling for independence is treason.

Iwasfrozen

Actually guys, this may not be a bad idea. We could leave Dublin to pay back all the debt they created over the next ten years then reunify when their done.

Shea O'Meara

Statehood wrote: »

I think a long and overdue conversation is due, and that is about the serious proposal for the City of Dublin and its surrounding areas in county Dublin/ North Kildare/ North Wicklow/ Southeast Meath etc. to become its own nation-state (or even city-state).

You'll find although we Dubs have insisted ourselves into neighbouring counties, they have their own proud identity.

Are you familiar with 2000AD? It's a comic I read as a kid. In a post apocalyptic future the powers that be decide the county is ****ed and wall up the larger cites making them Megacities. This left the rest to fend for themselves, they had nothing to offer, so **** them was the atittude. A little over the top and nutty for an analogy but I believe your idea to be just so.

Dublin is as unliked by the rest of the country as New York or Toronto, London, Paris are to their fellow countrymen. It's mostly harmless but posts like yours are divisive and just plain wrong.
We can no longer choose to seperate ourselves from inconvenient people, (poor/ill) or parts of the country (lots of jobless/no industry) we deem unworthy. It would be classest and self hating, being we are all Irish.
Within Dublin's own city walls, so to speak, we already see Inchicore and Coolock getting nowhere near the attention and upkeep of Dalkey and D.4. What makes Dublin so great we need keep it to ourselves and from the rest of the country? And if it is so great why do it at all? When do we start blocking off streets we don't like?
I can assure you some people on here would be very happy if Dublin got bricked up;)
In these days where as usual, for some reason, we begin to turn on each other rather than our political representatives, (see welfare recipients, Pubic sector workers etc.) this kind of thread is wrong, not that there would ever be a time when this is a good idea.
Also 'outsiders' own a lot of property and businesses in Dublin.

By the way if this whole thread was some joke, hands up, you got me.

Statehood

Shea O'Meara wrote: »

You'll find although we Dubs have insisted ourselves into neighbouring counties, they have their own proud identity.

Are you familiar with 2000AD? It's a comic I read as a kid. In a post apocalyptic future the powers that be decide the county is ****ed and wall up the larger cites making them Megacities. This left the rest to fend for themselves, they had nothing to offer, so **** them was the atittude. A little over the top and nutty for an analogy but I believe your idea to be just so.

Dublin is as unliked by the rest of the country as New York or Toronto, London, Paris are to their fellow countrymen. It's mostly harmless but posts like yours are divisive and just plain wrong.
We can no longer choose to seperate ourselves from inconvenient people, (poor/ill) or parts of the country (lots of jobless/no industry) we deem unworthy. It would be classest and self hating, being we are all Irish.
Within Dublin's own city walls, so to speak, we already see Inchicore and Coolock getting nowhere near the attention and upkeep of Dalkey and D.4. What makes Dublin so great we need keep it to ourselves and from the rest of the country? And if it is so great why do it at all? When do we start blocking off streets we don't like?
I can assure you some people on here would be very happy if Dublin got bricked up;)
In these days where as usual, for some reason, we begin to turn on each other rather than our political representatives, (see welfare recipients, Pubic sector workers etc.) this kind of thread is wrong, not that there would ever be a time when this is a good idea.
Also 'outsiders' own a lot of property and businesses in Dublin.

By the way if this whole thread was some joke, hands up, you got me.

I never said anything about bricking in city streets, that’s just crazy. I made sure to mention that I believed in continuing trade. As for those other cities, well I’m not too concerned with them to be honest as I live here in Dublin, and things that go on here affect me personally – I can’t say the same thing for the cities you mention.

There is nothing wrong with the concept of a city-state; in fact there are many of them in the world. Among them are Hong Kong and Singapore, and they seem to be doing just fine.

If we had a system on the American federal model which allows each state to run basically 90% of their own affairs then I would have no problem. If Dublin were simply part of a federal entity within Ireland, but had control over its own destiny, then maybe I’d be ok with that. But that’s not how Irish statehood or politics is structured; it is in effect a majoritarian vision implemented by ardent nationalists in the early 20th century to impose their vision on all living with the boundaries within Ireland.

Whereas the republican model in the United States, or other nations such as Switzerland allow for regional autonomy, the Irish system is a one-size-fits-all arrangement, and Dublin has zero control over many issues, and must accept that outside regions are allowed to interfere with it, both economically and politically.

But I cannot ever see a federal model been implemented in Ireland, the current skewed model will never be changed, along with all its downfalls. So under these circumstances I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask for a region, or even suggest that a region might be within its interests separating from the rest.

The Irish state, though republican by name is anything such and it’s as rigid and unsatisfactory as most political systems go.

As for your theme on the Northside/ Southside division, I despise the rigid class system in this country as much as I do the political system, but I am sure a compromise would be reached. Another factor to take into consideration is that with more revenue remaining in Dublin, the Northside would hypothetically be a beneficiary of this as the money would not be going elsewhere, and thus would be remaining within Dublin.

Also do not forget the issue of the Irish language, thousands of people are kept back in life because of the ridiculous expectation that in many jobs, the workers should be able to speak this language – regardless of how illogical or counter productive it is economically. It’s also blatant discrimination, and is one of the conditions (or demands should I say) of living in Ireland – in large part thanks to De Valera’s antiquated comely maiden vision of Ireland, which still remains with regards to the Irish language- and shows no sign of ever dying down.

Ireland will never change, nor will it’s uniquely corrupt system of government – so I don’t really see the point of remaining in it. In fact Ireland is as an entity historically unfounded as most people identified with their own tribe or kingdom – and to be honest, psychologically and mentally, most people still do. Irish nationhood, and the notion that we every place in the island could all be placed into one nation is nothing more than the naively illogical vision of dreary eyed nationalists such as Pearse and De Valera.

Ok I’m going a little too far off course here, and I would hate it to become divisive on them lines, but you catch my drift – Dublin could benefit greatly from ruling itself. I don’t understand why that’s so hard to contemplate for many people here.

fly_agaric

southsiderosie wrote: »

I will not comment on the wisdom of building two tram lines that don't even meet.

Didn't this poor decision in a long line of them come from the reflexive "can't be seen to spend [edit: waste??:)] too many lids on the big schmoke" attitudes that most rural tds (who go on to wield power as ministers, or juniors) have when it comes to Dublin's infrastructure?

southsiderosie

Statehood wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with the concept of a city-state; in fact there are many of them in the world. Among them are Hong Kong and Singapore, and they seem to be doing just fine.

Interesting you mention this...

When I left Dublin, I went to Hong Kong for a month. I have never been to a more efficiently run large city in my life. Afterwards I moved to Bilbao. I have never been in a more efficiently run small city in my life. The key factor in both of these: good government.

Again, I will redirect you to my earlier response to your OP. Why do you think that Dublin would be run any better than it is now with Dubs in charge of it, given the history of the city's management and political leadership?

Statehood wrote: »

Ok I’m going a little too far off course here, and I would hate it to become divisive on them lines, but you catch my drift – Dublin could benefit greatly from ruling itself. I don’t understand why that’s so hard to contemplate for many people here.

Having lived in Dublin, I find it VERY hard to contemplate, actually.

southsiderosie

fly_agaric wrote: »

Didn't this poor decision in a long line of them come from the reflexive "can't be seen to spend [edit: waste??:)] too many lids on the big schmoke" attitudes that most rural tds (who go on to wield power as ministers, or juniors) have when it comes to Dublin's infrastructure?

Bertie Ahern was the Taoiseach AND from Dublin. Why would he not push this through for his home constituency? The fact that the Luas does not connect is nonsensical.

amen

id calling for dublin to be a seperate stare the surely all those who worked on the good friday agreement are also guilty of treason as at the time they proposed it the "repulic" claimed the 32 counties and they were working to undermine it?

Mr. Presentable

More than half of all tax in the State is generated in Dublin. There is no chance the rest of the country could survive without the revenue-generated handouts from the jackeens.

TheReverend

Crazy people on the internets, im shocked

mike65

If the Pale is revived, can English invaders be far behind?

silverstrand

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

More than half of all tax in the State is generated in Dublin. There is no chance the rest of the country could survive without the revenue-generated handouts from the jackeens.

The man is at least thinking outside the box not running round and round shouting i dont know what to do like everyone else seems to be.

On the issue though:

Would the pigs be running around dublin again as the price war might force Dublin back to inner city rural living where they had hens in the garden etc. Or would it be cheap imports and dodgy meat from the rain forest terrrorists group. I dont think the rest of the country wouldn't be that badly off but, Dublin sure would be paying for food.

Focalbhach

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Actually guys, this may not be a bad idea. We could leave Dublin to pay back all the debt they created over the next ten years then reunify when their done.

Ten years might be a bit optimistic!

As for the rest... well...

BehindTheScenes

Best thing I have heard all week. I'm fully in favour of it. Now remember that as AIB, BOI, Anglo, Irish Nationwide and all the other bad banks have their headquarters in Dublin, and your effectively creating a new state, don't forget to keep the bank debt in your new country.

Meanwhile the rest of us will keep the Corrib Gas, peat, wind generated energy and water generated energy. We will though sell it to you at a reasonable price.

So when's this happening?

Stinicker

What about the rest of the country? I suppose we can all rot in bankruptcy. On the plus side Dublin might win the All-Dublin/All-Ireland or whatever it would be called.

Fentdog84

This proposal is absolutely idiotic, only a West brit could come up with this kind of patronising rubbish.. you obviously have no appreciation for Irish state & its history.Your arguments are so silly to think about the time you wasted coming up with those I pity the boring life you must lead..:rolleyes:

mike65

BehindTheScenes wrote: »

Best thing I have heard all week. I'm fully in favour of it. Now remember that as AIB, BOI, Anglo, Irish Nationwide and all the other bad banks have their headquarters in Dublin, and your effectively creating a new state, don't forget to keep the bank debt in your new country.

Meanwhile the rest of us will keep the Corrib Gas, peat, wind generated energy and water generated energy. We will though sell it to you at a reasonable price.

So when's this happening?

heh heh, has anyone done the sums for the value of toxic property thats within the Pale? Could be that this new state would fold immediately.

pablomakaveli

<snip>

DeVore

Can I have Galway?? I always liked Galway. I will be its king and rename it DeVille. Pints will flow freely in The Quays under my benevolent rule and Supermacs for aaaaall!!!

DeV.

mikemac

Statehood wrote: »

City of Dublin and its surrounding areas in county Dublin/ North Kildare/ North Wicklow/ Southeast Meath etc. to become its own nation-state (or even city-state).

Post this in the GAA forum and you won't make it out alive :eek:

fly_agaric

southsiderosie wrote: »

Bertie Ahern was the Taoiseach AND from Dublin. Why would he not push this through for his home constituency?

Berty never pushed anything through. He was mr conciliation. He even let Harney scupper his Bertiebowl stadium project!

Nehaxak

You do know this whole Culchie v Jackeen thing is only a bit of silly fun and slagging right ?

I'll go along with the OP's idea so long as in turn I get to swap my house in Dublin for a house and a little bit of land down in West Cork, preferably around Adrigole or the Sheeps Head Peninsula.

...but seriously though, what about those of us who want to speak Irish, or even just enjoy the language even if we're not fluent ? Will we be expelled from Dublin or not allowed practice the language at all ?

Can we not just build a wall around Dun Laoghaire and expel them from Ireland instead ?

murphaph

feelingstressed wrote: »

Post this in the GAA forum and you won't make it out alive :eek:

...which sums up a lot of what is wrong with the septic isle.

The OP has many valid points! Dublin has been held back from developing as a national capital should because it has always been political suicide amongst rural voters to be seen supporting spending in the capital. Quite frankly, many Irish people still view Dublin with suspicion as if the Lord fcuking Lieutenant still lived in the Park and the "province" was being run from Dublin Castle.

I disagree however with the OP that Dublin should cede from Ireland. Why should we have to cede? We are Irish too! We're Dubs, Irish Dubs. We are not less Irish because (many/most) of us don't speak Irish (I speak German, I wouldn't trade that ability for Irish in a million friggin years). What I do believe is that Ireland should become a federal republic with extensive tax raising and disbursement powers granted to the regions roughly corresponding to the old provinces excluding NI. Leinster would raise and spend its own taxes, Connaught its own and so on. There would be no social transfers between regions save for spending on national infrastructure (maybe!).

If people want to live in the cities and accept the more cramped conditions of city life, they should derive the benefits of that (cheaper provision of services due to pop density etc.) and if folks CHOOSE to live a rural life of idyll then they can pay for it.

The only good news I have for the OP is that Ireland is actually urbanising (at quite a fast rate, faster than internationally I belive) so the urban vote, even in rotten Ireland will become much more influential as time goes by (the constitution guarantees more seats where there are more people, though it favours rural Ireland as there is a 3 seat minimum).

I was in Hamburg this weekend (went to see this really) and you can really sense their proud city state tradition. Hamburg is to this day a Bundesland in its own right (only 3 city states in Germany these days, Hamburg, Bremen and Berlin). The Hamburgers have built themselves a fine and beautiful city, complete with excellent public transport etc.

Dublin should NOT be without an underground system at this point in time and it is a national disgrace that it is.

daithicarr

divide the country up more and add more levels of bureaucracy, plain idiotic.
Ireland doesnt need a federal system it would just add to chaos OUR public services are already. Ireland needs to get over its parochial approach, our bloody politicians are elected more on local issues than national ones, this dublin vs ... or cork vs .. etc is utterly ridiculous in a small nation such as ours.

murphaph

daithicarr wrote: »

divide the country up more and add more levels of bureaucracy, plain idiotic.
Ireland doesnt need a federal system it would just add to chaos OUR public services are already. Ireland needs to get over its parochial approach, our bloody politicians are elected more on local issues than national ones, this dublin vs ... or cork vs .. etc is utterly ridiculous in a small nation such as ours.

Clearly I would envisage a reduction in overall staff numbers and bureaucracy by eliminating the tiny county councils, of which Ireland has far too many as it is. I gurantee you if we moved to regional assemblies instead of silly little counties which bear no resemblance to modern living patterns, we sould see far better planning etc. No more tit for tat between Waterford and Kilkenny, between Limerick and Clare (or heck, between Limerick and Limerick!).

daithicarr

i agree larger more efficent local councils repalcing the county/city council systems would be better. dublin could have one over all council to look after its afairs, but a different nation ? rubbish.

murphaph

daithicarr wrote: »

i agree larger more efficent local councils repalcing the county/city council systems would be better. dublin could have one over all council to look after its afairs, but a different nation ? rubbish.

I think I made it quite clear that I was against Dublin ceding from the state. A federal republic of Ireland would include Dublin.

Fratton Fred

This could easily apply to London, Paris, Frankfurt, new York, LA, ........

jackbenimble

Dublin and it's surrounding counties have every right to break with the rest of The ROI if their people favour it and it might be to their advantage to do so in many ways.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

baztard

Whats all this talk of north Kildare being included! We may house a few economic refugees from our nearest trading partner, but culturaly we're situated as much "down da kuntry" as anyone west of us.

johnnyskeleton

Ireland is too small as it is, breaking it up further would be a disaster.

mikemac

The messing that is going on with Clare Co Council, Limerick city and then Limerick Co Council needs to be sorted. Borders may have to be redrawn.
Pretty ridiculous at this stage and it's been happening for years

When a Waterford city councillor proposed including areas in Kilkenny, a Kilkenny councillor compared them to Nazi's doing a landgrab, that was in 2005.

And you'd probably have an easier time merging North and South Korea then North and South Tipperary. :eek:

Something to be looked at anyway.
And I don't mean spending hundreds of thousands to commission a report that will be stuck on a shelf somewhere.

deise go deo

Statehood wrote: »

(2) The enforcement of the Irish language as a precursor for most of the top jobs in the civil service – be they politicians, lawyers, teachers, clerks, or just about any government job – despite the fact that Irish was never the official language of Dublin and the surrounding area since it was founded by the Vikings and later became a Norman settlement.

So what would you do with people in Dublin who speak Irish, and wish for it to remain as our National language?

BehindTheScenes

deise go deo wrote: »

So what would you do with people in Dublin who speak Irish, and wish for it to remain as our National language?

Well as an 'outsider' they would more than likely be ethnically cleansed or expelled to the other part of Ireland.

What would we call it and who is getting rid of who exactly?

Imagine you could have Éire (for the rest of the country) and Dublinireland for this new state full of cripplingly bad debt.

BehindTheScenes

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Ireland is too small as it is, breaking it up further would be a disaster.

I don't know Johnny I think we should get in a Nobel prize winner to make an assessment before we jump to any conclusions. :pac:

evercloserunion

Thread belongs in AH.