im with FRUoddy,questions to myself

glicster

im with you pal......

i now keep my questions to myself also.
There once was a time here when everybody helped and respected each others thoughts/opinions....
if you were posting on information recieved or something that you were thinking that contradicted popular believe and you needed clarification, people would come on and say "sorry mate but thats not the case,this is how it works or IMO i think it works better this way or try this out and see how it works".
you could even ask another contradicting question on the back of those answers and still be greeted with a respectfull answer to your querys...
because everybody wanted to share their knowledge and help those who knew little.
sadly most of those fellows dont post here anymore which is a great loss as many of us like fixing our own stuff and have questions to ask and liked the input of the more experianced lads.

but alas, these days it seems like you get maybe 2 or 3 questions in and then the claws and daggers come out. people think your insulting their intelegance rather than trying to get an answer that makes sense to ones self.
why can one not ask questions without being made to feel like a complete tw@t?
posting a question in itself is showing respect for the people that will reply to you, why? because you know they may have the answer and more so they went to the bother of replying because they want to help.if they want to help why then does it turn into what andy g calls a 'handbag fight?'
then you end up saying something that you didnt want to because your after getting caught up in a tit for tat row,forgetting what question you asked and more interested in getting one over on the other poster who wants to get one over on you,it doesnt stop untill its locked,then theres no difinitave answer to the question asked but 2 slightly angry people who say to themselves,fcuk that boards kip its full of a$$holes.

c'mon lads lets stop the bitch fighting and show some respect for each other,some want answers some want to help,no one wants to belittle another or feel belittled so why are we doing it to ourselfs?? were ruining this forum with crap, and as a result people arent posting here anymore for fear someone is going to verbaly abuse them or make them feel like sh!t for not knowing some basic stuff. dont forget,WE ALL HAD TO START SOMEWHERE

i hope someone on here understands where im coming from and please,..... no backlash lads,ive said what i wanted to say

keep up the good vids oddy,there all we have to represent the irish airsoft scene here on boards

Inari

Being honest, there are times I don't bother replying...but it's not necessarily because I'd rather keep it to myself. Sometimes I think threads do not need my outlook, as it can be quite off topic. Other times, I believe there are people who can give more well rounded answers than I can.

Personally I speaking, I post a lot of question threads, and they are always answered with good, helpful and most of all, respectful answers.

I have noticed an increase in hostility...however I'd argue that its more to do with the OP's attitude as opposed to those answering the questions. If people percieve that they will be met with hostility, they become hostile themselves which causes a vicious cycle.

Just treat others as you'd like to be treated, and become the change you wish to see. If you want questions answered without hostility, then don't be hostile to others...because if you are, you're no better and contributing to the problem.

glicster

hi inari

i dont post because like you i think others can give a more rounded exprianced answer than i ever could,but i wait and wait and on most occasions its a long time b4 anyone answers where as b4 people would be straight in.
thats my point,cause of the way its gone not many are answering/offering advice.
but i see what your saying,some wont answer because their met with a confrontational reply.
why are we doing this,were all at fault,its not good

Inari

There is a definite lull in posting. Questions used to be answered before you'd hit submit lol.

I guess if everyone said "Someone better can answer" no one will actually reply, so it's probably better if people try and answer the questions, but also make it clear if you're not 100% certain, and suggest PM-ing certain people.

PS: Just wanted to give out to DeBurca & Puding for being the main guys who answer all my 'stupid' question threads

Witcher

The forum has taken a serious nosedive in regards to the quality of threads being made in the main and sub fora and a lot of the long term users have stopped posting so there are fewer experienced people to answer questions etc accurately. Personally there's only a handful of people left here whos opinion I would value on any topic and most are users that were here when I started off.

ED E

Airsoft(This forum) is still on my bookmarks bar but it gets clicked a lot less recently. Things got stale here and the tecnical side was ruined by people not using the search function.

Suppose that happens all over though.

OddysAirsoft

Let's start a Revolution !

Puding

I find myself posting less and less. boards is focused towards retailers and site and with a strong focus towards speedball style airsoft. Is this a bad thing? no, of course not it is just not what im looking for, and i would say it is similar with a lot of the long term more experience members on boards ( well from talking to a far few i know this is true ) this may be unpopular and cause the reactionary shouts of elitist, but tbh as I've said in other threads its my hobby and if im going to spend big money on it im going after the good stuff im interested in. Even thought i do not play in Ireland i still put a silly amount of time into trying to develop airsoft in Ireland thought my website and forums ( and normally i just get abuse, but hay you can try )

People need to have a reality check as to boards, they seem to see it as some utopia of airsoft in Ireland, it was a tool when there was nothing else out there, but airsoft in Ireland is very very small and there is not enough numbers to create a forums like you see in other country, your just not going to get that level of interest and quality. Just as players go to the uk to play milsim they also go to other forums for discussion on accurate replicas and impressions and high end technical talk, as tbh it is pointless having or even starting such topics on boards, again this may be seen as 'elities' but its the reality.

Onto the thread that seems to have triggered this thread,

Question was asked
Lots of answers to question explaining in depth the reasoning

I do not see the issue with this? yes some of the replys where strongly worded but so was the replys form the original poster. But the topic is an emotive one with a lot of misinformation and party politic broadcasts being put out there by some retailers, there was no middle ground for the posters on that topic the practice was just a bad one and there was a lot of combined knowledge explaining why it was such.

Just because you do not like the answer does not mean its not a valued answer.

I though the thread was good as it was advice from airsoft with no ulterior motives and bias towards a set answer, e.g how it should be

Shiva

I've always looked on forums and chatrooms as a virtual pub, and you can apply the same dynamics.

In a pub, if there's constant fighting, you'll stop going there.
In a pub, if the barman constantly interrupts your conversation and tells you to change the subject or stops you talking entirely because whatever you're currently talking about has been talked about before, you'll stop going there.
If theres one or two loudmouths who constantly talk over you, talk down to you, or generally attack what you're saying purely because they love drama.....well, you get the picture.

I thought we'd turned a corner a few weeks back and things were improving, but I can see things starting to backslide again. I'm sick to the back teeth of seeing conversations being shut down because they get heated, or they've been discussed before. So what ? Seriously...so ****ing what ? We're all big boys. As long as theres no abuse being thrown about, I have no problem with a discussion being heated. And neither should anyone else.

As Puding said....Oddy's thread was heated, and yes, it had been covered before. I dont particularly agree with Puding's stance, but I have nothing but respect for his experience, skill and opinions, and I'm interested in how he expresses them, and I wanted a chance to counter his arguments - But now I wont get it. I'm also quite sure there were quite a few people who hadn't seen that topic discussed. And now they wont. Its another case of locking threads for the sake of locking them.

A heated conversation doesn't have to be abusive, and if we're not going to be able to talk about stuff thats been discussed before, there wont be much left we can talk about.

The reason there's less "veterans" posting here is partly because the place is over-moderated. You dont see threads being shut down over on Arnie's just because an argument breaks out, and you dont see threads being closed because the topics have been discussed before.

The more I think about it, and referring back to my post about changing the charter, I'm starting to think the charter should be changed to simply read "No personal abuse or shilling - otherwise fire away and talk to your hearts content".

MagicIRL

I've stopped logging into boards in general. I came here to get into airsoft, and to be honest, this is one of the worst cyber communities I've ever been part off. Im not trying to say that each and everyone of you are bad people, there are some genuinely nice ladies and gents on this forum. However, The amount of fighting, bickering, downtalking and penis-measuring is beyond a joke. You feel almost scared to post a thread incase you get jumped by a mod, or worse yet a user.

It seems people enjoy a good cyber-fight on the forum. (For example; A Moderator jumps into a thread and hands out a ban or two. 5mins later you have gob****es coming onto that same thread and "thanking" the moderators ban post. People who were not even envolved in the thread at any stage. That is just baiting the banned.)

I personally feel its over moderated, simple things are put down as "Breaching the peace" when really opinion were being voiced or just generally defending yourself. Im not trying to flame the mod team - Im glad that boards.ie has such dedicated men and women. I would say that the lines between right and wrong are very clearcut on boards, and I disagree with how the threads and moderation is handled on the forum but then again, this is not a post on moderation.

In relation to questions, the whole attitude of "Someone else will answer" is just counter-productive. If you have any advice (Even saying that 9.6v on a batteryr efers to its voltage.) IM sure the OP would be glad to hear it. Sitting back and saying someone else will do it is just pure laziness. Youw ouldn't see a house burning and say "SOmeone else will phone the fire brigade" would you?

Puding

As Puding said....Oddy's thread was heated, and yes, it had been covered before. I dont particularly agree with Puding's stance, but I have nothing but respect for his experience, skill and opinions, and I'm interested in how he expresses them, and I wanted a chance to counter his arguments - But now I wont get it. I'm also quite sure there were quite a few people who hadn't seen that topic discussed. And now they wont. Its another case of locking threads for the sake of locking them.

have to agree, fair few people where my and there views may not necessarily match but tbh i find them some of the most rewarding relationships online and offline

Stercus Accidit

It seems everything has to be sugar coated to the extreme otherwise people get upset.

I know what thread this is about, and for the time and effort it took me to answer a question to help someone with my own experience and knowledge I was told that I didn't know my stuff, that X or Y guy who is da best (unnamed) disagrees so I'm wrong, and that some e-mail said something which was so misunderstood by its recipient that his interpretation of it was totally wrong, but disagreeing there again was insensitive and deserving of another battery of condescension.

I don't know what the OP wanted, but it certainly wasn't answers that didn't suit him and then he gets condescending and insulting when people bother to inform him.

How do people function in the outside world with this level of sensitivity, a contradictory opinion and the claws are out and you are told you don't know your stuff by people on the defensive over NOTHING.

If you don't want to hear answers don't ask questions, and certainly don't degrade the people who answer you, so I'm glad that the OP has taken the wise move to not ask questions if he is planning on getting upset when he is answered, and then insulting people he doesn't know, who know their stuff better than he does and actually bother to help.

Horse84

In before the lock......

Have to agree with most of the above esp puding and shiva, I find myself logging in less and less as well and when i do it's just to keep an eye on the adverts and just nosing around the pics of peoples gear and loadouts.

I don't bother looking in any of the other subfora really. What happened to those really good reviews people used to do of aegs and gbbs?? Answer: most of those people have stopped posting themselves.

One of the most active threads here at one time was the news thread now that's almost dead. I used to post there regularly, (most of them fairly useless posts i admit) but it got to the point there u couldn't put anything up there without someone jumping on your back saying that's old news or whatever, who the f**k cares like.

It's a shame really, boards did really help me alot at the start with people like puding and others answering noob questions, hopefully we can get back to something like that soon:)

J.D.R

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

I know what thread this is about, and for the time and effort it took me to answer a question to help someone with my own experience and knowledge I was told that I didn't know my stuff, that X or Y guy who is da best (unnamed) disagrees so I'm wrong, and that some e-mail said something which was so misunderstood by its recipient that his interpretation of it was totally wrong, but disagreeing there again was insensitive and deserving of another battery of condescension.

That's the one thing that gets to me. It seems to be a battle of the highest post count here, if someone disagrees with you with the 5,000,000,000 posts, they are considered right even if they are talking complete bull (not directing at the people hinted to, just saying)

Also, it is a big problem of people having tantrums on this forum. I truly hate it when someone is proven wrong, and then they post "This thread is completely (insert swear), I'm never posting on this again", as if that will add to the flow of the thread in any way. And, to top it off, when the thread does evolve, they decide that actually, they don't want to leave, and join back into the conversation like their 3 year old like strop never happened!!

I don't realy think it's the mods fault for the closing of the threads, but a case of someone will take offence to something and start moaning. It happens on nearly every "Heated" thread discussion on here. Something that starts of with a bit of gusto just turns into 2 people arguing each others points just for the sake of it, which is no help to anyone.

Stercus Accidit

J.D.R wrote: »

That's the one thing that gets to me. It seems to be a battle of the highest post count here, if someone disagrees with you with the 5,000,000,000 posts, they are considered right even if they are talking complete bull (not directing at the people hinted to, just saying)

I don't think post count comes into it, there are plenty of forums on boards where you rack them up unintentionally, people just assume it means something when it doesn't. I just wish I could disagree and have a discussion without it descending to petty levels where your very credibility is questioned, regardless of what you have to say, once that sh*t starts there is no way it can end well.

Saying that though if the thread had stayed open at least we wouldn't be in this thread, and there would be some chance that people would reach a point of understanding, as such it was locked too early in my opinion.

Shiva

J.D.R wrote: »

I don't realy think it's the mods fault for the closing of the threads, but a case of someone will take offence to something and start moaning. It happens on nearly every "Heated" thread discussion on here. Something that starts of with a bit of gusto just turns into 2 people arguing each others points just for the sake of it, which is no help to anyone.

Yeah, but the flipside of that is that its no harm either.
If its allowed follow its course without being locked, it'll either evolve into a discussion thats worth participating in, or it'll die on its own. Why lock it ?

I honestly think locking a thread serves absolutely no purpose at all. The only thing a moderator should be doing (in my opinion) is banning people for personal abuse or deleting posts that are shills. Everything else will run its course naturally. People have the option to ignore posters, or not post on a thread if they lose interest in it. The signal to noise ratio may increase if threads are allowed run unchecked, but again....so what ?

gerrowadat

It ain't even about post count, it's about your status among the shower of pimply-faced sleeve-chewers that seem to grow a 9-inch e-penis because they know a mod.

Objective moderating went out the window a few months ago here -- I just skim the news and OT threads every so often. Answering a question is likely to get you abused or contradicted so I don't bother.

It's been mentioned a few times before, but I don't think there's enough interest in another 'general' airsoft forum. Shane's got milsimdublin.net, and there's a general area on forum.bandofhawks.com that people are free to use, but I think the community that was around boards a while back has just stopped interacting, as opposed to finding somewhere else, which is a shame.

Shiva

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

It seems everything has to be sugar coated to the extreme otherwise people get upset.

<snip>

If you don't want to hear answers don't ask questions, and certainly don't degrade the people who answer you, so I'm glad that the OP has taken the wise move to not ask questions if he is planning on getting upset when he is answered, and then insulting people he doesn't know, who know their stuff better than he does and actually bother to help.

I've met both of you in real life, and I have absolutely no doubt that thread would have resulted in a meeting of minds, and finished with you both accepting the others point of view, because you're both reasonable people. But because it was locked, you both will now regard each other with, if not outright hostility, at least with a certain reservation, whenever each of you sees a post from the other, and may not respond because of that. And thats the forum's loss, caused by locking a thread for no good reason.

I'm sorry if I keep harping on about this, but its the truth. Its not the personalities of the posters thats causing a decline in this forum, its the over-moderation thats not letting these differing personalities discuss their differences and come to a mutual agreement or understanding.

This community is the sum of its users. Moderation should be rarely invoked, and only in extreme cases.

Shiva

Here's an experiment....

I can see this thread being locked sometime in the next 24 hours with a stock "If you've a problem, take it to feedback or helpdesk."

Here's a challenge to the moderators.....leave it alone and see what happens. If theres any personal abuse, by all means ban or sanction the abuser, but otherwise leave it alone, no matter where it goes.

I guarantee you'll get one of two things happening -

a) It'll die out on its own due to lack of interest

or

b) A free-wheeling discussion will evolve, and a lot of valid opinions and thoughts will be expressed, and maybe, just maybe, the airsoft forum will be the better for it.

And then when I'm proven right, and I will be, apply that to the entire forum.

Sod'o swords

Doc had a very large well put together post which i'm not even going to dare to recreate, but basically it was saying how you can't give criticism on this forum.

If you say boo to a person about something suddenly you're trolling, flaming and 'If you don't like it then don't post'. It's a discussion board, if i think your idea won't work, has been done before or is plan silly i can tell you, such is the nature of a forum.

Same goes for sites, videos, sniper groups and what ever else is floating around, it's all a big bundle of false praise. You can't improve if everyone's saying your the best every five seconds.

Also what Pudding said, as always, I have to agree with. The forum is leaning more towards speedsoft, which by no means i'm complaining about, but that's just not what i'm interested in, as have many of the other posters here who have been around since/near the start. So I've lost interest in the forum over time. The only thing i check now is the military photo thread really.

Witcher

I'd love to see an end to people making threads for the sake of making threads. In the past 3/4 months the amount of threads with ridiculous topics has overtaken the amount of interesting and useful ones by far. Also people who justify their views as " Well my friend said/knows/thinks" when ideas are criticised which they can't handle and lose the plot.

As Dex put it perfectly there's an "intellectual famine" on this forum recently, we can all laugh at the odd stupid thread but when it becomes the bread and butter of a forum it's gone too far.

Also there are issues with Adverts which really need addressing as it's probably got worse there since the last thread in which it was discussed. There are users posting there daily who have 98% of their posts and threads there just making (Wanted) ads etc. I dread looking there anymore and very often the good gear for sale can be found on page 4-5 as it's pushed down.

Inari

I don't believe this forum is over moderated, nor do I believe that the moderators are biased. I am on boards frequently...I work at home, and I take frequent 5 minute breaks, where I'll check boards and my emails. There is a lack of interesting threads being posted, no argument there. But, the boards Airsoft community is so factioned, that it's ridiculous.

I'm not saying people are elitist...just good old fashioned passive-aggressive. What happens is personal issues get brought to the table, and rather than being civil about it, it becomes a pissing contest.

If you want conversation and debates to flourish, you have to swallow the ego, and try to help it along. Posting "this forum is shít" serves no purpose, except to spread negativity. Constructive = Good. Destructive and defamatory = bad.

In my opinion, people resort to ad hominem fallacy - insulting people to validate their point, rather than sticking to the facts. Everything goes great, until they can't resist getting that snide little gripe in...then it explodes, the moderators do their job before 'back-up' arrives, but at the expense of discussion.

You want good, informative discussion? So do I. But it is like gardening...you must nurture it...abstain from attacks, and instead try your hand at clean debating, because if you can't defend your point of view without resorting to attacks, perhaps your point of view requires more thought.

There used to be a lot more Reviews, technical discussions, adverts etc...I've not bothered with reviews because I want to do a lot of work on what I have, but hey, I'll do my best, and hopefully there will be some discussion.

I'll close this post with a positive - there are a lot of genuinely nice and helpful people on this forum. It is not nearly as bad as people make it out to be...but because of the lack of posting as of late, it is more prevalent.

fayer

Blay wrote: »

I'd love to see an end to people making threads for the sake of making threads. In the past 3/4 months the amount of threads with ridiculous topics has overtaken the amount of interesting and useful ones by far. Also people who justify their views as " Well my friend said/knows/thinks" when ideas are criticised which they can't handle and lose the plot.

Nail & head in regards to the forum for me, place has gone to the looney bin.

Blay wrote: »

As Dex put it perfectly there's an "intellectual famine" on this forum recently, we can all laugh at the odd stupid thread but when it becomes the bread and butter of a forum it's gone too far.

Some of the complete BS threads that start, and are actually allowed continue is stunning. Nothing against the up and coming generation, but the age demographic of posters has dropped seriously around here.

Anyway, enjoy the forum, contributing is just not worth the hassle any more.

Inari

fayer wrote: »

Anyway, enjoy the forum, contributing is just not worth the hassle any more.

If it's worth complaining about, it's worth fixing. If you care enough to comment on it, then it's not much of a stretch to attempt to do something about it. All it takes is a small effort from everyone...simple things such as not getting personal, trying to help others, not getting snippy just because a topic has been posted before.

gerrowadat

Inari wrote: »

If it's worth complaining about, it's worth fixing. If you care enough to comment on it, then it's not much of a stretch to attempt to do something about it. All it takes is a small effort from everyone...simple things such as not getting personal, trying to help others, not getting snippy just because a topic has been posted before.

I've opsted a few feedback threads about the moderation on here, one had something done about it (the Master stpped up and put his hand up, and got serious kudos from me anyway).

The other's just been ignored, as far as I've seen. Ah well.

andy_g

In fairness its the poster of a forum that make a forum after all it is your forum as well as mine as a user not as a mod.

So in laymans terms you get from the forum what you choose to put in and not what you choose to take out.
When users decide they have had enough thats their call.

Also if you dont like threads/posts theres a report feature it helps in the smooth running of the forum after that all we can do is leave it to you guys.

MerryDespot

I have to say that recently I've been asking myself what has become of the 'old' regular posters who initially helped me out when I started skirmishing ... and then I see that they've all posted on here about the issues everyone seems to be having with the airsoft forum recently! That in itself is a bad sign.

And it's not just on boards - I've had it said to me a fair few times at sites or when in a store talking to retailers that boards (or at least the airsoft portion of it) has, for want of a better description, gone to pot.

And I'm not having a dig at people playing a particular sort of game - be it milsim, speedball or somewhere in between. I couldn't care less how people want to play. This used to be a place where you could come on and ask a question and then see what happened without one of two things happening:

a. getting a discussion shut down because it was getting contentious ... or
b. it turning into handbags.

Now, I'll accept there's a fine line between the two - but even if it's fine it's still possible to see it and I'm sure a bit of sense can prevail.

Feck it - I remember how I used to get PMs pointing me in the direction of kit suppliers (for vests and tac gear) from experienced players when I posted wanted ads - that was the level of helpfulness that I experienced initially on here. And that's gone. This used to be the incentive for me to help people out when they PM'd me - payback for advice given to me when I started. But I have to admit that the more this forum goes into decline the less I'm inclined to be interact. After all, what's the point - you'll probably just be flamed out of it by some plonker who wants to cause a meaningless row.

Lets start a list shall we, of users who've been decent to me since I started, and who seldom post or who are gone:

Gerrowadat - kindly assisted me at a skirmish when I was having trouble adjusting the npas on a rifle and also pointed me in the direction of kit. Seldom posts - don't blame him either.

Masada - gone as far as I can tell - he always had the good grace to respond to PMs I sent him asking for advice on tech stuff or answering to threads. Sorely missed.

McShape - another user who helped me out with advice - haven't seen Tim post in ages.

Doc - he's annoying, I'll grant you that, but always amusing. He's also someone who has something to say and whose views, even if I rarely share them, are well considered and worthy of the argument - again rarely posting up here anymore.
... those are just the immediate ones who spring to mind.

There are plenty of others who I meet at sites who admit that they can't be arsed coming on here anymore. I just think that's a shame.

MerryDespot

andy_g wrote: »

I
So in laymans terms you get from the forum what you choose to put in and not what you choose to take out.

That Andy is the problem ... people used to put quite a bit into this forum as it was a community that they all thought they had a share in. One which allowed debate and a bit of banter off topic wandering from time to time - as Tony said above akin to pub blather.
That's gone.

I'm not saying that it's a mod issue entirely, but it's part of it. If users feel that they're being given grief for petty issues then they're not going to bother coming on here, and it'll be a poorer place for it, if it's not already.

I'm not having a go at you Andy - we've met more than a few times and you should know me enough to know that I'm pretty level headed and neutral in all this. But the airsoft forum has died a death. It used to be a pretty lively place ... these days the only thing I check on here is the adverts section and occasionally questions. Everything else has died on it's feet.

gerrowadat

andy_g wrote: »

In fairness its the poster of a forum that make a forum after all it is your forum as well as mine as a user not as a mod.

So in laymans terms you get from the forum what you choose to put in and not what you choose to take out.
When users decide they have had enough thats their call.

"It's all your fault for being bold boys. If you don't like it, feck off".

So you're saying boards is like this because airsofters are getting stupider? Cheers for that.

This is the problem right here. It's not our forum Andy, and it hasn't been for months. If it were our forum, we'd be able to have a discussion without fear of the thread being locked because one person decides to report it, or a post someone put a lot of work in being snipped or deleted because a mod doesn't think it's up to some invisible standard.

The sheer number of times people have gone "In before the lock" in the last while should be a wake-up call. It's not a community forum, it's a ****ing kingsize portion of madness mcnuggets.

Keep fooling yourself all you want, man. I hope you're happy when all you do is delete stupid threads all day because the quality posters have scarpered, and you're left holding the ball nobody wants.

RIP Boards. You were useful while you lasted.

Shiva

andy_g wrote: »

When users decide they have had enough thats their call.

Is that not a bit of a cop out though ? Especially as, from what I can see, and according to the people I talk to, the people opting out are doing so because of over-moderation.

... after that all we can do is leave it to you guys.

Thats the problem though Andy.....you're not leaving it to us. Moderators are deciding what should and should not be discussed.
And the ould "But there were a few reports about the thread" just doesnt cut it.
In fact its a lot of crap. There'll always be one or two people who find offense at the slightest thing, and will report a post....I dont see why everyone else should pander to their whims ?

I'm not having a go at you either Andy....I think sometimes you get the brunt of the abuse because you were the last mod on board, but its not that way at all. You just happened to come along when things reached a head - you, to my mind, just seem to be following along with whats gone before you, and you cant and shouldn't be blamed for that.

But this malarky of locking threads for what appears to be little or no reason has got to stop - its killing the forum. I honestly, genuinely, seriously dont give a flying fiddlers arse if 1 or 1 million people report a thread or a post (and I admit, I've reported posts in the past, so I'm as guilty as anyone else) - if they dont like a threads content, they can choose not to read it. They shouldn't be dictating that it be closed.

Unless there's personal abuse, or outright shilling going on, there is no excuse for locking a thread. And even with abusive posts or shilling, action can be taken against the poster without locking the thread. Thread locking should be the very last resort - it does more harm than good.

To be fair...its not just in the Airsoft forum this happens - its all over Boards. But it needs to stop. And no, I wont be taking it to feedback 'cos I dont give a damn about the other fora on Boards - I care about this one.

In the four or so years since I became active on boards again, I've always maintained the view that the servers belong to Boards.ie, and they can do as they wish, and the moderators they appoint can do as they wish. But over the past year or so as Boards.ie has knowingly and deliberately positioned and marketed itself as a community driven website for the free exchange of ideas, I've gradually come to the conclusion that they need to walk the walk as well as talking the talk.

Shanewalsh

This is an interesting topic, i have been a member of boards a few years now mostly in Photograhy and and I.T forums but i decided to leave as i was getting way to much abuse from posters/mods. It wasn't so much the abuse but the fact that my opinion/my work was ridiculed or not up to standard by a fair few people on here.

It frustrated me and i left! only since i started airsoft i felt ok i will give this another chance and maybe the airsoft forum is that more relaxed. At first i knew nothing about airsoft i asked a few questions and i got a few negative responses ones that were just smart remarks and not answers at all.

After a while i found Boards/Airsoft forum to be a great resource for all my needs and was happy with the advice i found, i think about airsoft daily and if i feel it would be worth sharing for fun or for a discussion i will post it. Now i admit i posted 1 or 2 rubbish youtube videos or idiots shooting themselves with airsoft guns without masks etc but i posted them up for discussion on safety and it was locked straight away. I know it was stupid but i wanted to hear the issues on safety etc etc and what other people thought of it but that never happened.

Another post my grammer/spelling was slated now i am sorry i am not very good with spelling/grammer at times but its something that airsoft forum users should not have to tell me about.

How can anybody be encouraged to contribute when all they get is abuse/negative criticism.

I hope this mess gets cleared up and things become a bit more relaxed. Its not right when you mention boards.ie to your friends and all you get is negative feedback, boards should be a place were you can talk about anything (until it gets offensive or very illegal).

Over and Out

Inari

Shiva is on the right track - it is not a problem of over-moderation, by normal standards. Andy_g is doing as any moderator would do, as I have done on many other fora myself. However, Shiva (and many others) see the future of boards being much more organic...and the moderator job being akin to a gardener (why am I giving another horticultural simile? ) - they snip personal abuse in the bud, warn the perpetrators, and keep conversation/debates open.

Here's the funny thing, and it's catch 22, so bear with it. If that is to happen, it will seem like an increase in moderation. More people will get warnings, as opposed to the blanket ones in thread etc...so people need to be aware of the trade off - discussion stays open, and as long as charter is adhered to, s'all gravvy. If it's not adhered to, man up and take the 'punishment' and be strong enough not to call the lynch-mob for back up.

Andy is right though...it's not a cop out answer. Without the users, the forum is nothing. Certain things drive people away, and the goal is to minimise that...but it still stands that without user-contributed material, and others to discuss the topics, forums die.

@Shanewalsh: Being honest, I'd have locked those threads as a moderator as well. Not because of the video content, but because there wasn't much discussion from you in the OP. If you're posting a video like those to discuss, then it's best to give your opinion (as close to full as possible), so as to give points for people to discuss/debate.

PS: You know what this community needs? A nice big event - as close to everyone as possible. Meet & greet and play. All different types of gameplay etc. Too bad that's idealistic and not realistic

The_ChiefDUB

Inari wrote: »

PS: You know what this community needs? A nice big event - as close to everyone as possible. Meet & greet and play. All different types of gameplay etc. Too bad that's idealistic and not realistic

I reckon that's a great idea. And while it would be possible to do on a large scale I'm sure it would be possible to organise smaller groups. If people can put a face to who they are about to abuse on boards well then they might take pause and rethink what they were going to say. 9 times out of 10 they could say it in a much better way and get their point across so the discussion can continue. For the 1 in 10 times - well if you can't say it without abuse maybe you shouldn't bother saying it.
It would be a great way for new players who aren't a part of a regular group or team to get in to discussions between games on site. I know that I wouldn't have had a clue about what I was doing or buying if I hadn't gotten in to some pretty good discussions with veteran players during my first few weeks of airsofting.

MerryDespot

Inari wrote: »

Certain things drive people away, and the goal is to minimise that...but it still stands that without user-contributed material, and others to discuss the topics, forums die

Inari, I respect your comment as someone who has moderated elsewhere, but I don't see how we can have user contributed material generated in an environment where people are leaving in droves - which is what's happening.

I agree with Tony - if that's an 'organic' development, well fair enough. I prefer the pub banter comparison to be honest.

I'm not sure that having a 'meet and greet' skirmish will make a blind bit of difference - you're never going to get a bunch of people from completely different backgrounds to agree 100% about anything. And there's the point - there's no need that we should!! But closing down a thread where there's some disagreement simply because there's disagreement is just not conducive to the soft of exchange that we used to have on here.

But the more I think about this issue the more weary I become - didn't we try to address this once before and get nowhere?

Inari

Not nowhere, there were definite improvements. I do agree with your point about closing threads...it kills discussion, and discourages people from posting.

You are right as well on the Meet N' Greet...tis very idealistic.

MerryDespot

Nowt wrong with idealistic Inari - but I don't think it's a case of getting everyone to Just Get Along. We've never had everyone in agreement on here! But I do remember that when I started posting on here last year we weren't being treated like school children and put in the 'bold corner' every time we dared to let things kick off a bit.

This place has become far too PC.

Spetzcong

In the years that I've been posting on here the nature and general tone of the airsoft forum has changed. The quickness of mods to lock threads was brought about by how quickly we the posters started dragging any sort of discussion into a pointless argument. I think Shiva is right, locking threads because of arguing does kill discussion, so does arguing all the time though. I rarely post on here, this is the first time in about a month that I've even read the forum, I doubt I'll be back in any substantial fashion for the forseeable future either. If threads are let run their course and it's only the posters who are sanctioned then we'll at least get to see what the natural state of this forum is. I think that many will be surprised at how unfriendly and embittered a place it has become. TBH I don't think the boards airsoft community ever fully recovered from all the fighting from back when the IAA was starting out. I think that era was when we lost our innocence as an online community. At least the airsoft community itself outside of boards is still a friendly one. As for boards, lets just let nature take its course, eventually things will settle and people will either move on from boards or start communicating properly and this forum might turn back into the friendly online community that I remember.

TheDoc

You knew it was coming in fairness....

I think I'm in agreement with most other posters here.

I find myself coaxing onto here to have a look the odd time but rarely bothering to post.

There is no argueing the threads here have gone into a rather bleak state. There is rarely anything interesting worth posting about. Most of the points have been labelled and mentioned already.

A thread a while back about sniping I think had some absolutely md **** from new players about M4's as backups etc. I remember me and Dex posting just trying to point out how stupid that idea was, and getting absolutely barraged by the OP( who admitted he hadnt played airsoft or tested his theory) but just downright disregarded our suggestion in a bit of a hostile manner.

I also remember another sniping thread where my suggestion was shot down.

So from that point on I just decided to keep to myself and not bother. Which is a pity. As much as I may be full of **** I've been around the place for a few years and have played alot of games, so I'd like to think anyway, that I've a bit of information and practical experience to pass on and share when it comes to gaming in general.


Moderation is partially to blame. I'd point out that I left the forum in spirit some time back after having more posts deleted and removed without being notified or asked, posts that were perfectly legitmite. I pretty much decided the forum wasnt worth the hassle.

I also feel a lack of interest in airsoft here in general. I'm very much over the honeymoon experience with airsoft(along time ago) and its now very much into the love hate married state. I love the game and I love playing and love good games. But more often or not there is just more negetives and **** that over shadows my fun.

The amount of cheating is still outragous on a given day most times in a skirmish which just ruins the day. I still have absolutely no time for playing hicap or unlimited ammo games. Nothing against thought people, but I use midcaps and prefer the game style, so I'm going to go to games that play that style.

I've very much consiously decided to just skip most games and play milsim only. Unfortunately the milsim playerbase here isn't vast and although there is alot of younger generation interest, the fact most of the time they are dabblers means it pulls me out of the realism experience and it ends up being a skirmish with midcaps.

Me pretty much being "meh" about airsoft here inevitably leads to me being "meh" about this forum, especially when its majority base is skirmishers who I have no problem with, but find the topics of discussion not to my liking.

I also just find the topics of discussion in general, piss poor. Its just my opinion like, and I know there is a large younger generation coming through, but as pointed the posting age has significantly dropped and while I have absolutely zero problems with that, it seems we keep seeing the same threads over and over.

In fairness when you look back the only time boards was good was when there was any sort of row/contraversy etc. I mean this forum when I refer to boards,other forums are well lively.

But when you think about it the quality post and posters we had was during the contraversy with IASRA and law changes and rowing etc. Outside of that its all boring really and always has been , granted there have been some cracking threads its long over the hill.

I think the major nail in the coffin was some of the downright sleeve munchers that are around the game and this forum in general. Who I've very little tolerance for in fairness. That and the "elitist" thing that always kicked off, that when ever I posted my thoughts, opinions or views it was interpreted as me being elitist, a know it all, and gods gift to airsoft. So rather then try to further explain myself and wrap everything I say in cotton wool so I'm not hurting someones feelings, I'm just avoiding posting.

Things may pickup, things may not, I don't know. I'm sure we will all be still about checking in from time to time, but I've taken it that there hasnt and wouldnt be interesting debates or threads for some time.

Call me when IASRA comes back or something so I can be bothered giving a toss.....

**
I'd also like to mention that Shane and his mates, are literally my last hope in savour of the game, before I go and sell all my stuff. The game is in some horrible state here and I really don't enjoy playing at all. If they can get some milsims going that draw the right crowd, I'll be a happy man.

NakedDex

Don't you dare sell up before we do our Equilibrium loadout. I need you on my side Cleric...

As Blay rightfully quoted something I said a few weeks back, there's an intellectual famine on this forum of late. That's not a slight against the IQ's of the posters, but rather it's pointed at the post type, topic and quality degrading into a void of generic replies, unfounded hostility and an all-purpose disregard of advice where it suits.

Debate, it seems, is a dinosaur of this forum, remembered fondly only by those who some would consider veterans of these parts. The latest crop of newbies to this forum are, for the most part, open to conversation and communion on all things airsoft and airsoft related (tipping the hat to Shiva's suggestion for allowance of sensible >1J discussion).
However, as with most things, there are the smaller group of individuals being, shall we say, less than open to the prospect of a good natured discussion from either side of the topic, resulting in a logical conclusion. Something which was the undeniable attraction of this forum as a hub for airsoft in Ireland; a meeting of minds, regardless of standpoint, in which all sides are heard and respected.

With regard to the moderation issues, allow me to use a crowd control situation as an analogy (stay with me here).
You have a mass of people united by one cause (in our case, airsoft). The crowd is loud, and a little giddy, all shouting to get their point out but excited to be among their peers. Interspersed among the crowd are individuals, or small groups of individuals, who value their opinions above all others, and believe themselves to be entitled to a louder voice. The only way to impose this on those around them who are, in actuality, equal, is to force their opinions upon them. This inevitably leads to fighting in small groups and, eventually, full on riots among those who were peaceful.

Response A)
Send in the troops (moderators) and disperse the crowd from the area (close the thread), without attempting to discover the cause of why a peaceful crowd turned ugly.

Response
Fire tear gas randomly into the crowd, in the rough direction of the trouble (form-letter "break it up" interjection by moderator).

Response C)
Send the troops in to remove and punish those who started the trouble in the first place, leaving the rest of the peaceful crowd to continue as they were (ban/infract the troublemakers).



Response A seems to be the standard reaction of late, which does technically stop the argument, but the doesn't get to the root of the problem. This is what causes arguments to fester in the long term, making the place uncomfortable to post in and ceasing a potentially beneficial conversation for those who were genuinely interested

Response B occurs quite often too, but doesn't actually stop the argument for the most part. Rather, it often just transfers it to another thread, which is simply spreading the problem.

Response C seems to be the logical response that people want, a simple direct action against those causing trouble, when they're causing trouble. If people know that stepping out of line with personal abuse or outright trolling will earn them an infraction, or even a ban, they'll be infinitely less likely to act upon their impulsion to shout at their peers with impunity.
Those whom it does not deter, will quickly find themselves permabanned anyway, so the situation is win-win.


I hope I'm not overstepping my bounds by making such observations and suggestions on the moderation practices, since I'm not one, but I feel an unspoken consensus by the frequenters of this forum, past and present, is served by such suggestions. Free flowing speech where the topic naturally progresses without hinderance from conflict cannot be had if the thread is simply closed, but rather only if those in conflict (aside from courteously heated debates, I think some sense is required in the application of such things) are removed from their disruptive role.


I still post here, but it's honestly a pick-and-choose situation with what I reply to and where I reply to it most of the time. It's rare that the main page has a topic of much interest, so I do most of my posting in the Questions sub-forum to be as helpful to the new players as possible.
We were all newbies on this forum at some stage (albeit some of us were here when this forum was a newbie to Boards.ie), so some care should be taken when slating topics as being repeats of previous ones. Similarly, new players shouldn't necessarily be allowed to bandy the word "elitist" around to those who prefer to play certain styles only.

It's a community, and a community relies on it's people. Those that are still here and reading this, and are willing to do so, can return this place to it's former glory with their contributions. Those who aren't willing to do so, well, that's a loss and a shame.
I, for one, am staying.

TheDoc

Man we cant do the Cleric loadout, it is a dream, if we do it, what can we dream of next?

NakedDex

Starship Troopers?

Inari

The Cleric loadout reminded me of my friends and I discussion forming a team for the laugh; 80's Action Heroes. We broke our hearts laughing at the poor sod who'd end up as Rambo...shirtless by nature, ravaged with 'chicken-pox' by the end

@Doc: I appreciate your point about Airsoft in Ireland, but have you considered going on the more fallow days with a group of like-minded people? That could help turn the tides of negative gaming experience into something much more positive

Lemming

TheDoc wrote: »

The amount of cheating is still outragous on a given day most times in a skirmish which just ruins the day. I still have absolutely no time for playing hicap or unlimited ammo games. Nothing against thought people, but I use midcaps and prefer the game style, so I'm going to go to games that play that style.

I've very much consiously decided to just skip most games and play milsim only. Unfortunately the milsim playerbase here isn't vast and although there is alot of younger generation interest, the fact most of the time they are dabblers means it pulls me out of the realism experience and it ends up being a skirmish with midcaps.

ELITIST!!! ELITIST!!!

*ahem*

I empathise with finding standard skirmish games just not so appealing, but perhaps rather than looking at such ammo unrestricted days differently. Think of them as a challenge; the other guy has unlimited ammo and/or a box mag, so outwit him, out play him, out skill him & help hone/refine your own skills/fitness/loadout/etc.

It's a shame that we can't have Sennybridge, or CDV, or Catterick, or Ballykilner, etc. every weekend, but that's part and parcel of the appeal of such venues. Garden variety skirmishes give you the chance to iron out that loadout issue that will otherwise plague your weekend away and detract from it. Garden variety skirmishes also give you any other number of positives to take with you to the weekend events.

I would also recommend that you try a TA-Events TacOps game if you're hungry for some seriously hardcore milsim. It's another event in the calendar to look forward to

OzCam

Lemming wrote: »

Garden variety skirmishes give you the chance to iron out that loadout issue that will otherwise plague your weekend away and detract from it. Garden variety skirmishes also give you any other number of positives to take with you to the weekend events.

For example, a chance to help newbies, catch up with old friends, make new friends and influence people. Also, they're practice.

se conman

I am being genuine here so don't think that I am taking the piss , but i would like to see modding duties handed over to TheDoc and a few old hands for a week or two and see if there is much of a change in thread types or directions.I know that there is no chance of this happening but it would be nice to see if it made any difference.I think it all boils down to trying to work out a balance between quality and quantity.

Stercus Accidit

I think people are less inclined to try to sort this place out because they did so once or more times before and it just ends up the same way again, or seems to anyway.

Lemming

se conman wrote: »

I am being genuine here so don't think that I am taking the piss , but i would like to see modding duties handed over to TheDoc and a few old hands for a week or two and see if there is much of a change in thread types or directions.I know that there is no chance of this happening but it would be nice to see if it made any difference.I think it all boils down to trying to work out a balance between quality and quantity.

That really wont fly conman. Boards.ie doesn't work like that, and moderators are not (and should never be) determined based on a popularity contest by the forum community of the day.

It's easy to blame the moderators, but we're the ones that put into this forum, and we take out what we put in. The community as a whole shares collective blame for whatever state the forum is to be found in, not the moderators. Blaming them is a cop out imo for our own failings. I'm not defending the moderators as they don't always get decisions right, but to lay all of our ills at their feet is dishonest to ourselves.

There is, as Stercius mentioned above, a temptation to just leave people to their devices - and I'm guilty of doing that myself in recent months - but if we turn our backs on the forum then we lose whatever 'right' we may have to observe & criticise it.

se conman

As I said , I know there is no chance of it happening and I am not blaming the mods but I do wonder if a change in modding style would actually make much difference at all.I don't think it would make that big a difference but I do think that posting style is like airsoft style , it is all down to the posters/players mind set.My pet hate , and it really pisses me off , is when a newcomer to airsoft asks a question only to be answered by "here we go again , this has been asked sooo many times before"

Captain Chaos

se conman wrote: »

.My pet hate , and it really pisses me off , is when a newcomer to airsoft asks a question only to be answered by "here we go again , this has been asked sooo many times before"

Thats true but 99% of new users don't read the getting started threads or the amounts of stickies with loads of links that answers 99.5% of the first questions most people will ask by starting a new thread here. Then there is the search function.

If you look back the amount of the same questions asked over and over, that is answered in the main stickies, it's wrecking the forum big time.

There should be a system that forces new users to airsoft section to read the FAQs sections first before they are even allowed to post here.

Basics like GBBs, there's loads on that and the differeces between green gas and CO2. Then people asking are JG etc a good brand when all the brands are listed in a sticky here on are they low, mid or high end quality wise and what to expect from them.

TheDoc

OzCam wrote: »

For example, a chance to help newbies, catch up with old friends, make new friends and influence people. Also, they're practice.

I took them like that for a very long time.

But then I realized I was throwing away in most cases €100 a month on games I wasn't enjoying or were total ****.

I'm not the sort of person thats going to walk up to someone and randomly start throwing them help, could be interpreted as being condescending, if someone asks sure I'll help, would never say no. (unless its someone asking me to take a gun into eirsoft for repair, never mind the fact I haven't worked there in MONTHS!!!)

and also the fact alot of time your help simply isnt needed, its not practice because its just a bit terrible.

so I decided to save my €100 and put it to a world of different things.

Like Jack Bauer memorabilia

Stercus Accidit

We were all new once, we just didn't have a crowd of experienced airsofters to tell us to read stickies, because we were the first set in the country. So its unfair to rail on newbies being newbies because they aren't used to netiquette or boards and certainly not what they can and cant ask in airsoft.

Once a threads in airsoft questions or new and getting started it should be fine, even if it is 'what m4 to buy lol', you don't have to answer, and maybe some other lad who asked before would pipe up and tell him what to get.

Theres a newbie thread and questions section and they are there to be used, let them at it in there because we all knew jack and **** and sweet F all at one stage.

There isn't much changing in airsoft at the moment that I can see, so naturally there is less new stuff to discuss, we are maturing as a community and as such it won't be new and fresh forever, the same stuff will be inevitably rehashed.