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Google Streetview and shooters

  • 30-09-2010 10:19pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32


    Is anyone here going to ask google to remove images of their homes from streetview as it may be a possible security risk?

    Am I being overly paranoid? In view of the way papers report court cases about firearms I think it is wise.


«1

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,096 ✭✭✭bunny shooter


    Not unless the satelite has an X-Ray capacity :p


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Maybe if it was possible to see security weaknesses from the images, but it's hard to see what more harm it could do that walking past the house wouldn't have already done (and with over 90% of burglaries being opportunistic, and the remaining 10% being preplanned anyway...)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,271 ✭✭✭✭johngalway


    Am I being overly paranoid?

    Yep, I think so :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,616 ✭✭✭FISMA


    I don't think you're being paranoid, rather, proactive.

    Fair enough, you cannot see anymore on Google than you could from a car passing by. However, now, criminals may easily go online and find their targets.

    Instead of having to physically go to a location, they may now find targets online.

    Why waste the time, effort, and money to drive around looking for an isolated target? Why see how far that home is from the Gardai? Just google it and you can do it all from the safety of your own home!

    Now criminals won't have to worry about being seen casing the neighbourhood or getting pulled by the Gardai.

    Sorry lads, I don't see how this is going to help deter criminals or be crimeinal neutral. I see this as a tool from which criminals will benefit.

    Zoom out a bit and you can easily see escape routes and all.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 805 ✭✭✭reverenddave


    first thing i done was check my house naturally :D

    and there was loads of my neighbors car number plates visible
    too i'll tell them in the morning :D


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    FISMA wrote: »
    Instead of having to physically go to a location, they may now find targets online.
    In which case they need to know where to search.
    On top of which the pictures (in my part of the woods) are at least a year old...
    Zoom out a bit and you can easily see escape routes and all.
    Which any decent street map sold by easons would do as well... and would be more up-to-date to boot...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,134 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    True to a point...BUT criminals will soon discover that technology isnt the be all and end all either.As are many 3letter agencies around the World,with huge budgets and manpower,who cant find one very tall bearded lad from Saudai who likes cammo jackets and has the odd kidney problem.;):rolleyes:
    Humint [Human intelligence] will still top Elenit[Electronic intelligence] in 80% of the cases.Yes satellite photography might tell you a lot,but it doesnt tell you wether your doors are alarmed and/or where the safe is,or wether that goat herd is actually a courier for himself in a cave in Afghanistan..It also aids YOU to know where your weak points are...
    As Sparks said a good drive /walk by will get you alot more than google will.Dont sweat it too much on the criminal side of things,I'd be more concerned on the privacy side of things.:)

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,500 ✭✭✭tac foley


    About a month after the google streetview car wheezed down our road, up came my house with our cars showing their license plates in clear view.

    I got onto the Google Earth site and asked them to either mask or remove the image, in accordance with their own self-imposed rules of operation.

    The following day it had been done.

    tac


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Mind you, I'm not sure what secret they're protecting here! :D

    attachment.php?attachmentid=129528&stc=1&d=1285946405


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,500 ✭✭✭tac foley


    Sparks wrote: »
    Mind you, I'm not sure what secret they're protecting here! :D

    attachment.php?attachmentid=129528&stc=1&d=1285946405

    It reads - 'The Heart of Shooting in Ireland' - hardly surprising really, given the name of the place as 'Midlands National Shooting Centre of Ireland'.

    Just shows ya what a bunch of ****ers the Google Earth editors are.

    tac


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,271 ✭✭✭✭johngalway


    Anything visible on Google Street View is visible from a public place. I don't see the issue. If it were an issue, we'd send recon people out the door ahead of us, guns brought out of gun shops would only be done in the dead of night under the supervision of someone with a thermal imaging camera.

    Seriously. Relax, enjoy life :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭Kramer


    johngalway wrote: »
    If it were an issue, we'd send recon people out the door ahead of us

    You mean you don't??:eek:





    :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,271 ✭✭✭✭johngalway


    Kramer wrote: »
    You mean you don't??:eek:





    :D

    I like to live dangerously :cool:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 947 ✭✭✭fodda


    johngalway wrote: »
    Anything visible on Google Street View is visible from a public place. I don't see the issue. If it were an issue, we'd send recon people out the door ahead of us, guns brought out of gun shops would only be done in the dead of night under the supervision of someone with a thermal imaging camera.

    Seriously. Relax, enjoy life :D

    I see an issue John. I think i have the right let alone think i should be asked if someone could display my property or personal belongings or even me for their gain or profit it whatever way it comes.

    If i took a pic of you and sold it for lots of dosh then i think you could claim some of it if you hadnt been paid for it (model release)? So i think the minimum is we should be asked and if we say no then that means no for whatever reason.

    Google arent spending millions on this for yours and my benefit, unless someone can enlighten me what it is all about.?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    fodda wrote: »
    I see an issue John. I think i have the right let alone think i should be asked if someone could display my property or personal belongings or even me for their gain or profit it whatever way it comes.
    You might think so; but under Irish law you do not, unless the photo is of you personally and being used for commercial gain directly (ie. being sold as stock footage or whatever). And if it is you, you have the right to get yourself blurred out of the image.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,489 ✭✭✭No6


    Me and the young lad appear on it, we were out shooting and he had just shot a crow, our faces are blurred and the car reg but if you know us you'd know it was us!!! Famous at last!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,590 ✭✭✭Tackleberrywho


    Sparks wrote: »
    You might think so; but under Irish law you do not, unless the photo is of you personally and being used for commercial gain directly (ie. being sold as stock footage or whatever). And if it is you, you have the right to get yourself blurred out of the image.

    My Brother was enraged by it, no privacy, and not current.
    my house has been upgraded since thankfully, however you can see into our yard.

    You can see into the hay shed and see how much hay we had last April when i reckon the image was taken.

    The father says to me, it's like spying!

    Farmers as is are watched for the purposes of area aid etc from the sky, now spying into our yard says my Da, what's next?

    I could post the houses of many people on here as I know there addresses, however is it morally right to publish peoples property without there consent?

    I got an earful on here for posting a pic of someone else's rifle once.

    if i posted a persons house "i would feel" i would have been morally wrong.

    If google update this street craic on a regular basis, it's akin to CCTV on your house and life!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Morality and Irish law are at best very distant cousins...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,590 ✭✭✭Tackleberrywho


    Sparks wrote: »
    Morality and Irish law are at best very distant cousins...

    Well I "try" to have morals, and do as I say, not as others do.

    It makes spying to easy, If I know someones address in kerry, Donegal or Dublin, I actually have to drive down there road to check out there house, Now I can check there house out from my mobile phone.

    I'm worried for mankind, is this a step too far?
    If a crim knows what i drive, and a rough idea where I live he can figure out where I live from the comfort of his own home


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,616 ✭✭✭FISMA


    I'll tell ya what's next, taxes.

    Wait until they bring back some form of property tax in Ireland. Then you'll see the gov't weenies using these tools to get yet more dosh out of us.

    This happened in California where people are in effect penalized for home improvements. Put in a new pool, f*** you pay me. New deck f*** you pay me. New windows f*** you pay me... [Yes, a GoodFellas reference]

    The town weenies went on google Earth and found everyone in town that had a pool that had somehow forgot to pay their taxes.
    Sparks wrote: »
    In which case they need to know where to search.
    Which any decent street map sold by easons would do as well... and would be more up-to-date to boot...

    Fair points Sparks, however, what I was trying to get at is that they do not need to know anything or go anywhere. They can just get online and find a nice looking soft target at ease.

    They used to have to go to an area and pick the target. Picking the target is now much easier - from the comfort of your own home.

    As for the street map, they'd have to buy a fair share of them to cover the area google maps does! Also, you cannot literally see what's there. Google maps, you can see everything at the back, behind those bushes that block your view from the road.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,271 ✭✭✭✭johngalway


    fodda wrote: »
    I see an issue John. I think i have the right let alone think i should be asked if someone could display my property or personal belongings or even me for their gain or profit it whatever way it comes.

    If i took a pic of you and sold it for lots of dosh then i think you could claim some of it if you hadnt been paid for it (model release)? So i think the minimum is we should be asked and if we say no then that means no for whatever reason.

    Google arent spending millions on this for yours and my benefit, unless someone can enlighten me what it is all about.?

    When the photo is taken from a public place there is diddly squat you can do about it. RTE would be sued every other day if your argument was the case.

    Talking about a photo of me personally is changing the entire argument.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 373 ✭✭emanresu


    Sparks wrote: »
    Mind you, I'm not sure what secret they're protecting here! :D
    tac foley wrote: »
    It reads - 'The Heart of Shooting in Ireland' - hardly surprising really, given the name of the place as 'Midlands National Shooting Centre of Ireland'.

    Just shows ya what a bunch of ****ers the Google Earth editors are.

    tac

    It might not have been done manually.
    It's possible that the automatic system recognised the word "SHOOTING" as a mixture of letters and numbers as in a car number plate, if it took the letters O and I as numbers 0 and 1.
    The same word in the upper line was not written in capital letters so it would not have looked like a number plate.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    FISMA wrote: »
    I'll tell ya what's next, taxes.
    Wait until they bring back some form of property tax in Ireland. Then you'll see the gov't weenies using these tools to get yet more dosh out of us.
    Not taxes, social welfare.
    The town weenies went on google Earth and found everyone in town that had a pool that had somehow forgot to pay their taxes.
    And in Ireland where satellite imagery showed up dummy sheep used to cheat on EU grants...
    Fair points Sparks, however, what I was trying to get at is that they do not need to know anything or go anywhere. They can just get online and find a nice looking soft target at ease.
    How do you think they do it at the moment?
    Google maps, you can see everything at the back, behind those bushes that block your view from the road.
    No, you can see everything that those bushes did not block from the road (the car doesn't go into private areas), 18 months ago or so.
    Besides, if you think you're not on camera now anyway, you're probably wrong - we're not as bad as the UK, but we're trying to be. At least you can declare yourself off-limits to Google Streetview...


    ...but just think of the positives here for a moment. Want to advertise where your range is to a newbie? Worried they won't recognise the place?

    129562.png

    Sorted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,271 ✭✭✭✭johngalway


    Sparks wrote: »
    And in Ireland where satellite imagery showed up dummy sheep used to cheat on EU grants...

    Link :confused:
    Sparks wrote: »
    How do you think they do it at the moment?

    Well, on the hills North of the N59, they ordered all farmers to gather all of their stock off the hills on November 3rd 2009. They then sent teams of inspectors, in twos, around to all of those farms. During that time they flew two helicopters and one fixed wing aircraft to inspect the same hills. So there isn't really anywhere to hide anything now, unless North Korea are exporting underground bunker building technicians. But I don't think even the SFP cheque could cover that outlay.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,590 ✭✭✭Tackleberrywho


    Anybody spot the pyebald down the road from rathdrum !!:D

    And is that Galvanize or Asbestos on the roof of RRPC ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    Well I "try" to have morals, and do as I say, not as others do.

    It makes spying to easy, If I know someones address in kerry, Donegal or Dublin, I actually have to drive down there road to check out there house, Now I can check there house out from my mobile phone.

    I'm worried for mankind, is this a step too far?
    If a crim knows what i drive, and a rough idea where I live he can figure out where I live from the comfort of his own home

    FFS!
    Google make their money by selling advertising both directly and indirectly. The higher the number of people that visit their site and other sites via their search engine, the more they earn. Give people what they want and they will come to you. Make it free and they will come in droves.

    All that aerial stuff has been available for years, so why the fuss now?
    A house I stay in down in Kerry is so blurred it is not recognizable, the photo is more than four years old and it is not on “Google View.” My mate’s place in Meath is there, equally blurred, photo is more than four years old and it is not on “Google View”, ( the new pen we built a few years ago is not there.)

    As for Fisma’s comment on swimming pools, a pool needs planning permission, so it can be traced that way. Aerial surveys have been done for years, Sat photos were used in Italy years ago to count olive trees to stop fraudulent grant abuse. In Ireland, how do you think NTR gets car numbers for toll evaders? Number recognition is just as easily done by a roadside camera to see who is going where and when. The Brits were using it in N Irl for decades.

    I am far more concerned about the possible loss of my wallet, with a gun license in it – that shows me, my address, my gun make and the number of cartridges I may have.
    Now that is worrying.
    P.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 29,473 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    I got my house removed from it. All done in 24 hours.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    johngalway wrote: »
    Link :confused:
    Can't find one; I'm talking about the hullabaloo back in '01 when OLAF found that large herds of sheep were being driven from farm to farm for nefarious purposes relating to EU subsidies. I seem to remember (and no, I'm not mixing it up with Ballykissangel) one farmer having dummy animals in his fields, spotted because of two identical satellite photos a month apart where the 'animals' hadn't moved....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,271 ✭✭✭✭johngalway


    I am far more concerned about the possible loss of my wallet, with a gun license in it – that shows me, my address, my gun make and the number of cartridges I may have.
    Now that is worrying.
    P.

    Yep, a far larger concern for me as well.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 947 ✭✭✭fodda


    Haddockman wrote: »
    I got my house removed from it. All done in 24 hours.

    How?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 29,473 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    Click report issues on the bottom left of the picture.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,590 ✭✭✭Tackleberrywho


    Sparks wrote: »
    Can't find one; I'm talking about the hullabaloo back in '01 when OLAF found that large herds of sheep were being driven from farm to farm for nefarious purposes relating to EU subsidies. I seem to remember (and no, I'm not mixing it up with Ballykissangel) one farmer having dummy animals in his fields, spotted because of two identical satellite photos a month apart where the 'animals' hadn't moved....

    I know two farmers that had a rep out as there boundary ditch disappeared from one field!!
    I still think Big Brother is not my cúpan tae!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,134 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    TBH lads.I had a look at my area on both satellite and Google street view,and I can safley say I'm not worried about anyone using it as an up to date surveillance tool.The car must have been around about two years ago.As all the local election posters are up!:D.The satellite imagery is over five years old,as I can make out a car I had bought seven years ago and sold four years ago..Even a neighbours house is still being built!!
    Not to mind that some satellite imagery of Ireland is just DIRE!!:eek: The resolution of the picture is so blurred you couldnt make out anything at extreme closeup.Reason?It was taken in the early 1980s!!!
    IOW it is about as useful as a leaky bucket for bailing out a boat.Depending how leaky the bucket is...:p
    Big Bro might be getting here,but he has awhile to go just yet here!:D

    Would be more worried in the next census ,that some bright spark tried like in the US last year,to include your GPS location of your house when they handed out the census form.:eek:

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    johngalway wrote: »
    Link :confused:

    Actually, thanks to Google it is very easy ;);)
    From link http://www.audgen.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?Userlang=GA&DocID=527&StartDate=01+January+2010

    Where would we be without it!!:D:D:D

    Inspection procedures
    Department staff carried out inspections of almost 77,000 applications under the 1997 schemes. Around 15% of cattle scheme applications and 24% of sheep scheme applications were inspected. Around 5% of tillage scheme applications were verified either by means of on-farm inspection or by examination of satellite photography. B the vast majority of the cases inspected, the applications were found to be in order.
    Inspectors recontirnended the imposition of penalties in relation to around 3,700 (5%) of the 1997 livestock cases inspected. In over 900 of those cases, including nearly half of the sheep cases, the inspectors concluded that the applicant had been seriously negligent in making the application or had made a fraudulent application. As a result, the inspectors recommended that the applicant be barred from the scheme concerned for one or two years.


    Rs,
    P.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    johngalway wrote: »
    Link :confused:

    Actually, thanks to Google it is very easy ;);)
    From link http://www.audgen.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?Userlang=GA&DocID=527&StartDate=01+January+2010

    Where would we be without it!!:D:D:D

    Inspection procedures
    Department staff carried out inspections of almost 77,000 applications under the 1997 schemes. Around 15% of cattle scheme applications and 24% of sheep scheme applications were inspected. Around 5% of tillage scheme applications were verified either by means of on-farm inspection or by examination of satellite photography. B the vast majority of the cases inspected, the applications were found to be in order.
    Inspectors recontirnended the imposition of penalties in relation to around 3,700 (5%) of the 1997 livestock cases inspected. In over 900 of those cases, including nearly half of the sheep cases, the inspectors concluded that the applicant had been seriously negligent in making the application or had made a fraudulent application. As a result, the inspectors recommended that the applicant be barred from the scheme concerned for one or two years.


    Rs,
    P.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 804 ✭✭✭TimTim


    Haddockman wrote: »
    I got my house removed from it. All done in 24 hours.

    I think the question should be why?

    If you are trying to hide something you just stand out even more now.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,271 ✭✭✭✭johngalway


    Actually, thanks to Google it is very easy ;);)
    From link http://www.audgen.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?Userlang=GA&DocID=527&StartDate=01+January+2010

    Where would we be without it!!:D:D:D

    Inspection procedures
    Department staff carried out inspections of almost 77,000 applications under the 1997 schemes. Around 15% of cattle scheme applications and 24% of sheep scheme applications were inspected. Around 5% of tillage scheme applications were verified either by means of on-farm inspection or by examination of satellite photography. B the vast majority of the cases inspected, the applications were found to be in order.
    Inspectors recontirnended the imposition of penalties in relation to around 3,700 (5%) of the 1997 livestock cases inspected. In over 900 of those cases, including nearly half of the sheep cases, the inspectors concluded that the applicant had been seriously negligent in making the application or had made a fraudulent application. As a result, the inspectors recommended that the applicant be barred from the scheme concerned for one or two years.


    Rs,
    P.

    Cheers P. That's a stupid craic to be at, bound to be caught out now with all the different checks.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,590 ✭✭✭Tackleberrywho


    johngalway wrote: »
    Cheers P. That's a stupid craic to be at, bound to be caught out now with all the different checks.

    it was Joe Walsh era, pre sheep tagging introduction. tagging eliminated a lot of messing


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,310 ✭✭✭Pkiernan


    The technology is certainly open to abuse, both by the State and by criminals.

    It differs to the previous overhead satellite imagery in that the car mounted camera allows one to look over many walls and fences - more than one would see by just walking past.

    As a tool for everyday people, I don't see what benefit it serves, certainly no benefits that outweigh the disadvantages.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭rrpc


    Anybody spot the pyebald down the road from rathdrum !!:D

    And is that Galvanize or Asbestos on the roof of RRPC ;)
    Asbestos. Perfectly safe Tack, unless you start cutting it up :eek:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭alex73


    Street view is great!, I use it all the time for travel to other countries.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,590 ✭✭✭Tackleberrywho


    rrpc wrote: »
    Asbestos. Perfectly safe Tack, unless you start cutting it up :eek:

    Cost yee a feckin fortune to get rid if you ever want to do up the roof.
    ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭rrpc


    Cost yee a feckin fortune to get rid if you ever want to do up the roof.
    ;)
    Not particularly. We've had quotes to replace the roof, and the removal is a small enough fraction of the cost.

    Granted if removal was the only thing we were doing, it would be a bit more expensive, but you don't remove a roof without replacing it. :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,590 ✭✭✭Tackleberrywho


    rrpc wrote: »
    Not particularly. We've had quotes to replace the roof, and the removal is a small enough fraction of the cost.

    Granted if removal was the only thing we were doing, it would be a bit more expensive, but you don't remove a roof without replacing it. :rolleyes:

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/environment/environmental-protection/asbestos_regulations

    much cheaper replace regular tin roofs with claddding than asbestos!

    It becomes fiberous over the years of weathering, eventually the Greens will clamp down on it and make everyone remove it.

    Ironic that it was regulation to install it in the 50's-70's.
    The joys of Google street!
    Now the Greens can spy on us all!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭rrpc


    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/environment/environmental-protection/asbestos_regulations

    much cheaper replace regular tin roofs with claddding than asbestos!
    :confused: You can't use asbestos any more, so cost doesn't enter into it.
    It becomes fiberous over the years of weathering, eventually the Greens will clamp down on it and make everyone remove it.
    That'd be great! They'd have to pay for it then, the same way that they have to grant aid retrofitting insulation to current standards. :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,590 ✭✭✭Tackleberrywho


    rrpc wrote: »
    :confused: You can't use asbestos any more, so cost doesn't enter into it.

    That'd be great! They'd have to pay for it then, the same way that they have to grant aid retrofitting insulation to current standards. :D


    I think in a round about way I have proved my point, this street view thingy is bad news.

    I can spy on people from miles away.
    I have never been in Rathdrum in my life, and yet I can snoop around undetected, looking at all the facilities in the village

    Burgulars could do the same, look for weakspots in security etc.
    The concept of spying on ones neighbors is in my opinion; is an invasion of privacy.

    And if there was no google street view the whole issue of asbestos would never have surfaced.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,057 ✭✭✭civdef


    They could also just drive past surely?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,590 ✭✭✭Tackleberrywho


    civdef wrote: »
    They could also just drive past surely?

    Most crims are cout as they were seen in the area prior "casing the joint"

    This way they could case the joint without being seen!

    If google do this street thing oft5en, you actually get to build up a profile on someone, as all the data is there and you have all the time in the world to take note of things!

    Like a Pyebald on the long acre outside rathdrum village ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,057 ✭✭✭civdef


    Most criminals are caught because they admit it to someone.

    The level of data provided by streetview is less than would be given by a drive past, and is at least 18 months out of date to boot.

    This is not a security risk, in my opinion.


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