The use of Task Managers/Task Killers

angel01

I have relatively new to Android and am using android 2.1 and on my phone there was no way to close applications such as webpages and such like. I had read an article saying that there was no need to use these apps as they have a negative impact on the phone and don't actually "close" the apps in the first place.

I was using an app called task manager and was having internet signal issues (losing 3G) and think it may be linked.

Here is the article: http://lifehacker.com/5650894/android-task-killers-explained-what-they-do-and-why-you-shouldnt-use-them

Mr E

Yeah I stopped using a task killer a few weeks ago. I used to close apps religiously many times a day, but don't do it any more. No difference to the speed of my phone (so the internal task manager is doing its job).

On the flipside, I can't say I notice any difference to the battery life.

Bottom line, no need for task manager on FroYo.
Might try that watchdog program though.... sounds useful.

angel01

Mr E wrote: »

Yeah I stopped using a task killer a few weeks ago. I used to close apps religiously many times a day, but don't do it any more. No difference to the speed of my phone (so the internal task manager is doing its job).

On the flipside, I can't say I notice any difference to the battery life.

Bottom line, no need for task manager on FroYo.
Might try that watchdog program though.... sounds useful.

I don't have Froyo, I have 2.1

heebusjeebus

I only use task-killers to kill the browser app as sometimes it can slow the whole system (when multiple windows are being used). Since going to 2.2 I have no need to kill anything else.

Idleater

Mr E wrote: »

Bottom line, no need for task manager on FroYo.

Bottom line, no need for a task manager on Android no?

hardCopy

My desire has been awful since I ditched advanced task killer. Will definitely reinstall.

Certain apps just won't die by themselves. Eg google listen stays constantly in my notification bar and stops me using headphone controls for mixzing.

My sense home screen crashes if I have more than a few browser tabs open.

Mixzing skips a lot if I have other stuff open.

This rarely happened when I used atk.

iknorr

on 2.1 and above theres no need for a task killer except that if u have a dodgy program hogging all the power - but this can be killed under the standard android menu.

Android doesnt work like windows. Android prefers to use 90%+ of the memory at all times. ( apps loaded into memory). These are the frequently used and last used apps. They will stay in the memory which makes loading times quick. except when another app comes along and wants lots of memory. Then android will kill off the unused apps automatically.

jimmycrackcorm

I suspect that juice defender might be more effective than ATK...

angel01

What I don't get about ATK is that it would tell me I have some things open that I know I hadn't opened, e.g. Gallery, Eurosport app etc

I have removed it now. I was just under the impression that if I was still in the internet windows and not using it, it would be running down the battery.

Atomic Pineapple

angel01 wrote: »

I have relatively new to Android and am using android 2.1 and on my phone there was no way to close applications such as webpages and such like. I had read an article saying that there was no need to use these apps as they have a negative impact on the phone and don't actually "close" the apps in the first place.

Android takes care of what to close and what to keep alive itself.

A task killer destroys this process which can lead to multiple problems.

hardCopy wrote: »

My desire has been awful since I ditched advanced task killer. Will definitely reinstall.

Certain apps just won't die by themselves. Eg google listen stays constantly in my notification bar and stops me using headphone controls for mixzing.

My sense home screen crashes if I have more than a few browser tabs open.

Mixzing skips a lot if I have other stuff open.

This rarely happened when I used atk.

Your simply not exiting Google listen correctly then.

Task killers degrade the Android OS, they use a hacked API, this will cause multiple issues from data corruption to apps freezing, becoming unstable, phone reseting etc..

The whole idea is that Android controls the lifecycle, breaking it is not a good idea.

pelemcg

I've updated to 2.2 but still have Advanced TK running. Is it right to day that I should probably uninstall ATK as Froyo takes care of that sort of thing itself?

angel01

draffodx wrote: »

Android takes care of what to close and what to keep alive itself.

A task killer destroys this process which can lead to multiple problems.



Your simply not exiting Google listen correctly then.

Task killers degrade the Android OS, they use a hacked API, this will cause multiple issues from data corruption to apps freezing, becoming unstable, phone reseting etc..

The whole idea is that Android controls the lifecycle, breaking it is not a good idea.

Okay thanks, I am still quite new to Android I am on 2.1 if that makes any difference. I have removed the task killer app today.

Keith186

I use the ATK a bit. Comes in handy for closing for closing programmes that don't close themselves such as listen. They still use ram in the background and hence battery.
Don't ever get any of the problems that draffodx mentions above.

angel01

Keith186 wrote: »

I use the ATK a bit. Comes in handy for closing for closing programmes that don't close themselves such as listen. They still use ram in the background and hence battery.
Don't ever get any of the problems that draffodx mentions above.

Why does it say I have some programs that I have never opened listed there?

dahamsta

I dislike the hardcore "don't use task managers" line intensely, it's throwing the baby out with the bathwater 'cos the internets said so. Task killers are fine for occasional use to kill off troublesome apps. The issue with them is automatic or overuse.

What bugs me about Android is it's insistence on starting apps that I never, ever use on boot, like radio and music. I understand they use little or no resources, I just don't see the point in starting them in the first place. If I want them, I'll start them.

AAAAAAAHHH

Keith186 wrote: »

I use the ATK a bit. Comes in handy for closing for closing programmes that don't close themselves such as listen. They still use ram in the background and hence battery.
Don't ever get any of the problems that draffodx mentions above.

Do you know how little your battery life is affected by RAM?

Atomic Pineapple

dahamsta wrote: »

I dislike the hardcore "don't use task managers" line intensely, it's throwing the baby out with the bathwater 'cos the internets said so. Task killers are fine for occasional use to kill off troublesome apps. The issue with them is automatic or overuse.

What bugs me about Android is it's insistence on starting apps that I never, ever use on boot, like radio and music. I understand they use little or no resources, I just don't see the point in starting them in the first place. If I want them, I'll start them.

Limited use just means the problems are less likely.

Just set the app not to start on boot, any decent app will provide it as a setting choice. If they dont find a better app or request it as a new feature from the developer.

Android itself is only starting them because its being told to.

Keith186 wrote: »

I use the ATK a bit. Comes in handy for closing for closing programmes that don't close themselves such as listen. They still use ram in the background and hence battery.
Don't ever get any of the problems that draffodx mentions above.

Are you on Froyo?

angel01

draffodx wrote: »

Limited use just means the problems are less likely.

Just set the app not to start on boot, any decent app will provide it as a setting choice. If they dont find a better app or request it as a new feature from the developer.

Android itself is only starting them because its being told to.



Are you on Froyo?

How do you stop a app not to start on boot?

Atomic Pineapple

angel01 wrote: »

How do you stop a app not to start on boot?

It should be in the settings of the app if its not request the developer puts it in settings via the market or whatever way you want to contact the developer.

hardCopy

draffodx wrote: »

Android takes care of what to close and what to keep alive itself.

A task killer destroys this process which can lead to multiple problems.



Your simply not exiting Google listen correctly then.

Task killers degrade the Android OS, they use a hacked API, this will cause multiple issues from data corruption to apps freezing, becoming unstable, phone reseting etc..

The whole idea is that Android controls the lifecycle, breaking it is not a good idea.

That's great, in theory.

Very few apps have an "exit" button, maybe in time developers will start to add them but for now I'll stick with atk.

If Google can't build their own listen app to exit gracefully then I won't hold much hope for other developers.

dahamsta

I gave two examples, Radio and Music, neither of which have a startup option. Neither does PayPal - for which there's no alternative - or Qik. In fact, picking apps at random, I haven't come across one yet with that option.


My point stands.

angel01

draffodx wrote: »

It should be in the settings of the app if its not request the developer puts it in settings via the market or whatever way you want to contact the developer.

How do you close the internet browser for example? How do you close any of the app's, I don't see a close button for any of them.

hardCopy

angel01 wrote: »

How do you close the internet browser for example? How do you close any of the app's, I don't see a close button for any of them.

Dolphin browser and a couple of games are the only apps I've seen that have this feature

angel01

hardCopy wrote: »

Dolphin browser and a couple of games are the only apps I've seen that have this feature

Thing is the browser that is on the galaxy I love so I don't fancy switching, in this case, should I use a task killer?

Idleater

angel01 wrote: »

Thing is the browser that is on the galaxy I love so I don't fancy switching, in this case, should I use a task killer?

When the app is in the background it is off. If you are concerned about apps using data in the background, there is a specific toggle in settings to disallow that.

To illustrate that point, I have the "subbed" page on m.boards.ie bookmarked and if I load it after a while (it having been off) it looks the same as how I left it, I have to reload the page for it to get the updates to my subbed forums.

If the browser was "on" in the background keeping the connection active, then it would be updated. The most recently used apps (holding home button) is only that, a pointer to the most recently used apps, they may be running in the background (eg gTalk, connectbot) if allowed, they may not (eg, eStrongs), they may be paused awaiting to restart where left off (eg angry birds or vnc connection).

Another example is the Most recently viewed documents on windows. Just because mydoc.doc is there doesn't mean that word is still active does it?

Atomic Pineapple

hardCopy wrote: »

That's great, in theory.

Very few apps have an "exit" button, maybe in time developers will start to add them but for now I'll stick with atk.

If Google can't build their own listen app to exit gracefully then I won't hold much hope for other developers.

Thats becuase Android takes care of the lifecycle, they dont need an exit button, pressing the back button will call onDestroy() on an app, pressing the home button wont.

dahamsta wrote: »

I gave two examples, Radio and Music, neither of which have a startup option. Neither does PayPal - for which there's no alternative - or Qik. In fact, picking apps at random, I haven't come across one yet with that option.


My point stands.

What music or radio app are you using? None of the one's I've ever used started on boot. Most apps wont start at boot which is why you haven't seen it as an option.

I've had a look at paypal and it looks like it has to start at boot to acquire some sort of linux call, its still possibly to easily exit it, so no need for ATK there either.

angel01 wrote: »

How do you close the internet browser for example? How do you close any of the app's, I don't see a close button for any of them.

You dont, Android will close them.

angel01 wrote: »

Thing is the browser that is on the galaxy I love so I don't fancy switching, in this case, should I use a task killer?

No, see nereid's post.

Idleater

draffodx wrote: »

pressing the back button will call onDestroy() on an app, pressing the home button wont.

Cool, thanks for that. That is certainly interesting to know - I had guessed that both worked the same way, but I suppose when using the home button to "alt tab" between running apps they do switch very quickly - eg talk - gmail - internet.

angel01

Thanks for the explanation, it makes it a lot clearer for me, I guess I am just so used to closing applications, I will let Android do it for me in future.

Just was afraid of the app's running down the battery!

hardCopy

draffodx wrote: »

Thats becuase Android takes care of the lifecycle, they dont need an exit button, pressing the back button will call onDestroy() on an app, pressing the home button wont.

Try doing that with Google listen.

It doesn't destroy the app, the listen icon stays in the notification bar and picks up any press of the headset controls.

I've read all the articles about lifecycle control in android but it just doesn't work. I don't know or care if that's down to bad implementation or bad app design.

The bottom line is that as things stand, I can't get by without a task killer

dahamsta

draffodx wrote: »

What music or radio app are you using?

The standard ones on a HTC Desire. Gmail starts at startup too, don't use that. Ditto Footprints. Any many more besides.

Again, if I wanted them, I'd start them. It should be an option. Which, for the 3rd time, was my point.

Idleater

dahamsta wrote: »

The standard ones on a HTC Desire. Gmail starts at startup too, don't use that. Ditto Footprints. Any many more besides.

Are they impacting on the phone performance? Doubt it.

I wish I could stop all the Windoze Services that it thinks that are necessary (.Net optimisation blah de blah - I don't need .Net) ...

dahamsta

nereid wrote: »

Are they impacting on the phone performance? Doubt it.

Read my original post. I don't care whether they impact on performance, I don't want them running. (As it happens, contrary to popular belief - again because of "what the internet sez" - while apps in the background don't use a lot of resources, they do use them.)

I wish I could stop all the Windoze Services that it thinks that are necessary (.Net optimisation blah de blah - I don't need .Net) ...

Control Panel > Administrative Tools > Services. I actually have more control over my services in Windows than I do in Android, unless I root my phone. That's just uncool.

Atomic Pineapple

hardCopy wrote: »

Try doing that with Google listen.

It doesn't destroy the app, the listen icon stays in the notification bar and picks up any press of the headset controls.

I've read all the articles about lifecycle control in android but it just doesn't work. I don't know or care if that's down to bad implementation or bad app design.

The bottom line is that as things stand, I can't get by without a task killer

It does work. It allows Android to be truly multi tasking.

Google Listen may have a bug or again you may not be exiting it properly.

dahamsta wrote: »

The standard ones on a HTC Desire. Gmail starts at startup too, don't use that. Ditto Footprints. Any many more besides.

Again, if I wanted them, I'd start them. It should be an option. Which, for the 3rd time, was my point.

I understand your point but it adds no weight to the argument that you require a task killer, even if they start on boot, Android will kill them when necessary.

Turning background data off will also stop gmail and the likes from pulling data in the background.

dahamsta wrote: »

Read my original post. I don't care whether they impact on performance, I don't want them running. (As it happens, contrary to popular belief - again because of "what the internet sez" - while apps in the background don't use a lot of resources, they do use them.)

Is it because you said so?

dahamsta wrote: »

Control Panel > Administrative Tools > Services. I actually have more control over my services in Windows than I do in Android, unless I root my phone. That's just uncool.

Settings>Applications>Manage Applications

Select your application and pick force close, there ya go job done, if you have 2.2 you can also stop background services.

dahamsta

Isn't background data a global flag? That's of no use to me.

I addressed your other point in the post I made while you were replying to mine. It might be ok for you, it's not for me. Me != You.

Idleater

dahamsta wrote: »

Read my original post. I don't care whether they impact on performance, I don't want them running.

Control Panel > Administrative Tools > Services

Have you just proven my point?

settings -> applications -> running services -> radio -> stop service.

As it happens, I have just done the above and I have about 6 services actually running : switchpro, battery service, skype :rolleyes:, calendar, messaging, touch Input.

dahamsta

Services != apps != init.d.

Atomic Pineapple

dahamsta wrote: »

Services are not apps. You just killed apps, not services.

Contradiction?

Idleater

:pac:

dahamsta wrote: »

Services are not apps. You just killed apps, not services.

sigh, do you want to switch off these "rogue" resource hoggers or not?

My point is, that windoze has loads of ones that I think I never need, but maybe I do - I'm too lazy to care to turn them off, I let windoze manage them for me.

Android is the same, if it thinks these should be running, so be it, let it do so. If I really need the resources, I trust Android more than windoze to release unused resources.

dahamsta

I'll leave ye to it lads, ye're obviously whiz kids. When ye figure out the difference between a service on Windows, programs, startup, init.d, etc, feel free to ping me. Well done for being textbook examples of "cuz de webs sed" though. :rolleyes:

Idleater

dahamsta wrote: »

I'll leave ye to it lads, ye're obviously whiz kids. When ye figure out the difference between a service on Windows, programs, startup, init.d, etc, feel free to ping me.

I presume that's directed at me, but I only used the windoze service to illustrate a point that was similar to your complaint about android "background resources" (note, you can decide if they are apps/services/background data whatever you feel comfortable with), but I'm fairly happy to ping you now on the differences between them.

Atomic Pineapple

dahamsta wrote: »

I'll leave ye to it lads, ye're obviously whiz kids. When ye figure out the difference between a service on Windows, programs, startup, init.d, etc, feel free to ping me. Well done for being textbook examples of "cuz de webs sed" though. :rolleyes:

I've been developing on Android for 1.5 years now, in contact with many of the developers who created Android as well as advocates hired by Google, as well as many many other developers from around the world and I dont mean through XDA or other forums.

What I have posted has nothing to do with "cuz de webs sed" everything I know about Android is through proper research within a commercial company working on Android products.

I'd be the first to admit Android is far from perfect but I am also aware that task killers are not a good solution to the problems, thats all I was stating, you seemed unable to grasp that and ended up complaining about apps starting on their own which has nothing to do with a task killer.

A task killer being what the thread is about.

angel01

On the galaxy S, it is tedious to keep pressing back to try and get out of the browser, because if you have been on a few websites, it takes a good few minutes to get out of the browser..

Think I will have to put the task manager back on

Dave147

I have the paid version of ATK and the widget on my homescreen, I've just uninstalled it now and will report back with findings.

Atomic Pineapple

angel01 wrote: »

On the galaxy S, it is tedious to keep pressing back to try and get out of the browser, because if you have been on a few websites, it takes a good few minutes to get out of the browser..

Think I will have to put the task manager back on

The browser is different, just leave it.

pelemcg

Uninstalled ATK (free version) and battery life is noticeably better. On stock 2.2. Was already better before turning off background data sync.

Dave147

Reinstalled my task killer, except it is an optimised version of ATK for Froyo, my battery lasted about 9 hours today and normally I'd get alot more, same useage as always.. Think the task killer works a treat as long as it's used intermittently.

28064212

angel01 wrote: »

On the galaxy S, it is tedious to keep pressing back to try and get out of the browser, because if you have been on a few websites, it takes a good few minutes to get out of the browser..

Think I will have to put the task manager back on

Used to think that too, but just press the menu button, select "Windows", close down any open windows, then press back. Much quicker

Only time I ever use a task killer is when I know there's a misbehaving app (e.g. one of the recent Layar updates has made it so it tries to access the GPS location all the time, even when I'm not using it and after I exit it, so I killed it with ATK). Auto-killers are a very bad idea, as is "kill all", unless you know exactly what you're doing

jimmycrackcorm

pelemcg wrote: »

Uninstalled ATK (free version) and battery life is noticeably better. On stock 2.2. .

Same as that - also turned off juice defender. Seems to be better than with ATK.

bigears1

Hi Guys I am having problems since I downloaded the Samsung app Task Manager, its now popping up all the time without being selected also my WiFi seems to be cutting out a lot since I cleared the RAM in this app.
Does anybody know how to delete it - I have tried everything without success.
I am running Froyo on Galaxy s
thanks:(