Agnosticism is the logical from Atheism?

cursai

Improbable wrote: »

As the great Dara O'Briain once said, science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it would stop.

I can honestly say that I would consider myself an atheist towards a god that licks his own elbow on the 2nd monday of every week while reciting the lyrics to all the latest REM album. There is just absolutely no reason to believe that such a being exists. All of the evidence indicates that there is no need to assume a god hypothesis. Imagine you were starting off from scratch from the beginning of the universe, and imagine living in a world today where religion had never occurred. It would be considered absurd for you to suddenly say that a magical being did it all. Religion and gods are a remnant from the infancy of our species.

I wouldnt know either way, I wouldn't be so brave as to think i could formulate up the path of human evolution and society!!!

cursai

strobe wrote: »

Welcome to the paintball arena Cursai......

Thanks it reminds me of having trying to convince the girlfriend of how **** x factor is!

Improbable

cursai wrote: »

Then Blind faith is part of the atheist equation!...(doesn't BELIEVE there is)

It's not blind, it's a hypothesis made by the best available information.

Improbable

cursai wrote: »

Thanks it reminds me of having trying to convince the girlfriend of how **** x factor is!

A point we can agree on! yayness!!!!

mikhail

Someone once said that an atheist isn't necessarily absolutely certain that there's no god. He's just someone who is satisfied that the evidence for god is on a par with the evidence for werewolves.

I don't believe in werewolves.

Galvasean

cursai wrote: »

Thanks it reminds me of having trying to convince the girlfriend of how **** x factor is!

At least there is evidence to show that the X-Factor is crap.

cursai

mikhail wrote: »

Someone once said that an atheist isn't necessarily absolutely certain that there's no god. He's just someone who is satisfied that the evidence for god is on a par with the evidence for werewolves.

I don't believe in werewolves.

If an Atheist isnt certain then he is Agnostic!

amacachi

cursai wrote: »

Thanks it reminds me of having trying to convince the girlfriend of how **** x factor is!

I hope you don't believe in a Christian, Jewish or Islamic version of God because you just called something he had a part in creating "****". He wouldn't be too happy about that I don't think, get ready for a plague.

cursai

Improbable wrote: »

It's not blind, it's a hypothesis made by the best available information.

Of which cant be proved or disproved! Is this not as arrogant as someone taking a myth of Jesus or Mohammed or whatever as truth!

amacachi

cursai wrote: »

If an Atheist isnt certain then he is Agnostic!

Wow, you haven't read any of the posts on this thread then have you?

Improbable

When probability values approach zero, scientists just call it zero.

cursai

amacachi wrote: »

Wow, you haven't read any of the posts on this thread then have you?

You were too busy waiting to sneer that you dint see i was referring to the thread i quoted!

mikhail

cursai wrote: »

If an Atheist isnt certain then he is Agnostic!

I'll tell my wife to hang some garlic so. Or was that vampires?

Improbable

cursai wrote: »

Of which cant be proved or disproved! Is this not as arrogant as someone taking a myth of Jesus or Mohammed or whatever as truth!

The non-existence of adam and eve is as good as fact. The non-existence of noah's ark and the flood are as good as fact.

Like I said, imagine yourself at the point in human history where religion did not exist. Which is the more arrogant viewpoint at that time, that a god created the world specifically for us or that we were not "made" for any specific reason?

I would call myself a defacto atheist. The probability is so low that I do not believe there is a god. But the tiniest probability is still there so I have to admit that I may be wrong, although I don't think I am

cursai

Improbable wrote: »

When probability values approach zero, scientists just call it zero.

Find me a scientist that can explain the entire mysteries of the universe? Unitl that day im gonna say i don't know!

Gregor Samsa

cursai wrote: »

Then Blind faith is part of the atheist equation!...(doesn't BELIEVE there is)

I think this is the crux of your misunderstanding.

When atheists talk of belief, they mean it in the general epistemological sense.

When religious people talk of faith, they mean it in a specific theological sense.

The two aren't synonymous in these contexts.

amacachi

cursai wrote: »

Find me a scientist that can explain the entire mysteries of the universe? Unitl that day im gonna say i don't know!

If the scientist exists then I think most of us here would admit that there is a God and he/she is it.

Improbable

cursai wrote: »

Find me a scientist that can explain the entire mysteries of the universe? Unitl that day im gonna say i don't know!

Find me a religious apologist who can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that a god exists. Until that day, I'm going to say that there is no reason to believe such a being exists.

cursai

amacachi wrote: »

If the scientist exists then I think most of us here would admit that there is a God and he/she is it.

BUT until that scientist existsand proves or disproves (Most of atheism is based on scientific logic from my understanding on this thread) how can someone be certain either way.

cursai

Improbable wrote: »

Find me a religious apologist who can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that a god exists. Until that day, I'm going to say that there is no reason to believe such a being exists.

Until there is full proof of a Non godly habited world(whatever) how can a person be sure!

Dave!

I'm an agnostic atheist

cursai

Look i have to sleep. ill try to summarise. I think Atheism is the same as any religion. Believing in a certain way of existence without Scientific or other practical proof!

cursai

Yis know im right so dont fight it anymore. Oiche Mhaith!

Improbable

cursai wrote: »

Look i have to sleep. ill try to summarise. I think Atheism is the same as any religion. Believing in a certain way of existence without Scientific or other practical proof!

Atheism is as much of a religion as not collecting stamps is a hobby.

Galvasean

cursai wrote: »

If an Atheist isnt certain then he is Agnostic!

You do realise it is possible to be both an agnostic and an atheist right?

Now, I'm going to wander off to find something to strike you with if you don't start taking some of this information in.

Galvasean

cursai wrote: »

Yis know im right so dont fight it anymore. Oiche Mhaith!

Ickle Magoo

cursai wrote: »

Look i have to sleep. ill try to summarise. I think Atheism is the same as any religion. Believing in a certain way of existence without Scientific or other practical proof!

But I don't believe - I lack belief. I was born without a belief in a god and I have never had any belief in a god. Until some reasonable evidence presents itself I have no reason to have a positive belief and will remain in the default lacking belief one way or the other. :cool:

strobe

cursai wrote: »

Look i have to sleep. ill try to summarise. I think Atheism is the same as any religion. Believing in a certain way of existence without Scientific or other practical proof!

If I told someone that 12 dragons were having an orgy on my kitchen table last night with the daughter of Rasputin and an alien from the future that came to this planet to share his favourite cheese cake recipe with me while the original Guns 'n' Roses line up played mood music in the background.....and that person said he didn't believe me.....is that person now in a religion of one because he can't prove it didn't happen but doesn't believe it happened all the same?

Improbable

strobe wrote: »

If I told someone that 12 dragons were having an orgy on my kitchen table last night with the daughter of Rasputin and an alien from the future that came to this planet to share his favourite cheese cake recipe with me while the original Guns 'n' Roses line up played mood music in the background.....and that person said he didn't believe me.....is that person now in a religion of one because he can't prove it didn't happen but doesn't believe it happened all the same?

Still more believable than the existence of a god. That's sayin' somethin'...

Rockn

I think Atheism is the same as any religion. Believing in a certain way of existence without Scientific or other practical proof!

I think it's more: not believing in a certain way of existence because of a lack of scientific or other proof.


You don't have to be able to prove everything you believe and disprove everything you don't believe. It would be impossible. I think that everyone has to draw a line somewhere. This is stuff I believe. This is stuff I don't believe. This is stuff I'm uncertain of, it could be true. How you make the decision depends on the person. Me, I use logic, reason, science. Science has built up a picture of the universe and how it works. If something fits in with that then I'll to accept it. If it goes against that I won't. If it's in between I'll be open to the idea.

Extraterrestrial life for example. Of course I've no idea if it exists but is it possible? When you consider the number of planets in the universe and the fact that life started on Earth then it's not illogical. So I'll say "I don't know if there is extraterrestrial life".

God, on the other hand, doesn't fit in with the scientific view of the universe at all. If god exists then anything's possible and we might as well not have scientific laws, seeing as god could change them at any time. God goes in my "improbable therefore don't believe" category.

Other people draw the lines in different places. Lots of people couldn't give a crap about science or proof. I don't understand that at all. Some people just believe anything that's told to them by people close to them. Some people just believe what they would like to be true.

Point is: people say you can't prove god doesn't exist therefore you can't really be an atheist. I say you don't need to prove everything you believe or disbelieve. If you did then the word believe would be pretty meaningless and we might as well all say "we don't know anything".
More important question is why do you believe or disbelieve the things you do? Is it based on rationality or something else?

TL;DR

ME:
scientifically probable = believe
scientifically possible = don't know
scientifically improbable = don't believe

SOMEONE WHO BELIEVES IN GOD:
want it to be true = believe
don't care = don't know
don't want it to be true = don't believe
?