Training intensity & recovery time

soc$

I've been following a variation of the stronglifts advanced program - the main bits I've taken are sticking mostly with compound lifts and keeping consistent is the idea of lifting 5x5 until you can complete all sets/reps and then upping the weight a little.

I'm also training every 2 days but I'm starting to wonder if my recovery time is too short. I'm not lifting massive but for my current weight, build, strength, etc I max it out as much as possible. Everything is to failure - if I can complete 5x5 the weight goes up one or two kilos and I hammer away until I can complete 5x5 on the new weight.

The question I have is should you have more than 1 day recovery between the weights sessions? If you don't leave long enough for the muscles to repair are you reducing the benefit of of doing all the work?

I'm curious about peoples personal experiences -

I plan on sticking to this plan for 14 weeks so I guess I'll have my own answer at that point.

Transform

simple rule on the big lifts for me is that if the lift is not going up then put in more recovery days or do a lighter weight for the next session and then go back up to the working weight in the following session.

Having just 2 days off between say a 90-100% max deadlift sessions would nuts for me but ok for a beginner so it really depends on your progres.

Brian?

soc$ wrote: »

Everything is to failure .

This could well be a problem as the weight goes up. If your lifts stall I would consider backing off a little and leaving a rep in the tank rather than taking more rest between days.

You could even do this:

Monday: Heavy Day
Squat – 5 sets of 5

Wed: Light Day
4 sets of 5

Friday: Medium day
Squat – 4 sets of 5, 1 triple, 1 set of 8

and repeat.

Tis entirely dependent on whether the weight is going up. I have idea how this relates to Stronglifts, no idea at all.

soc$

Transform wrote: »

simple rule on the big lifts for me is that if the lift is not going up then put in more recovery days or do a lighter weight for the next session and then go back up to the working weight in the following session.

Having just 2 days off between say a 90-100% max deadlift sessions would nuts for me but ok for a beginner so it really depends on your progres.

Do you mean that taking 2 days complete rest would be nuts?

I'm definitely not a beginner (training seriously about 8 yrs now) and I don't think I've stalled at this point (yet) but progress is definitely slow. For example, I moved from 32.5kg db bench to 35kg db bench over two weeks and I'm at 4x5 and 1x4 now -


From what you both wrote it sounds like I should be thinking of mixing it up with heavy, medium and light days? Could I do that by just reducing the sets? Or should I reduce the weights too?

Currenlty because of various predefined timings I structure my week something like this:

Monday
1. Interval training or Rest (in which case interval training is Wed)

Tuesday
1. Squat
2. Chest (3 exercises, e.g. db bench, cable flye, incline bench)
3. Bicep (I'm pretty weak here so want to target it)
4. Core (2 exercises, e.g. russian twist, planks)

Wednesday
1. Interval training or Rest

Thursday
1. DL
2. Shoulders (2 exercises, e.g. arnie press, barbell press, dips)
3. Back (2 exercises, e.g. bent over row, lat pull down, wide chins)
4. Core (2 exercises, e.g. leg raises, crunch w/ plate)

Friday
1. Rest

Saturday - all bodyweight + plyo
1. Bounds to bench - aiming for height*
2. Bounds to bench - aiming for length*
2. Dips to failure (3xF)
3. Narrow grip chins to failure (3xF)
4. Easy cardio

Sunday
1. Rest


*I bound onto a bench to reduce imapact because I've a dodgy knee.


Should I do some easy days instead of the rest days? What I want to achieve now is increased both size (tks Mellor for the tip on myfitnesspal ) and strength.

itsallaboutheL

I'm not advising anything i'm just saying.

I've PRd or come very close to it about 30 of the last 40 days.

And i feel fine, and it's working.

Individuals vary, but if i recall you were talking about lifting once a week before, and i really really don't think you need that much recovery time.

I go by how i feel, i'm not going to take a rest day because some program says i should nor am i going to train if i don't feel right.

dartstothesea

Every second or third session around with Stronglifts I have been taking 72hrs rest instead of the minimum (I believe the program says 48hrs is just the minimum like) and I think it works well. Haven't failed on squats or deadlift yet.

Progress on the bench has been fairly slow, though. The 2.5kg increase feels so difficult at times.

soc$

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

I'm not advising anything i'm just saying.

I've PRd or come very close to it about 30 of the last 40 days.

And i feel fine, and it's working.

Individuals vary, but if i recall you were talking about lifting once a week before, and i really really don't think you need that much recovery time.

I go by how i feel, i'm not going to take a rest day because some program says i should nor am i going to train if i don't feel right.

Yea, I was lifting once a week - that's just the program I was given to tie in with the rest of my sport specific training. I'm done with competition and don't have to worry about things like periodization and timing my conditioning. Plus I don't have access to trainers anymore so I'm experimenting

Brian?

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

I'm not advising anything i'm just saying.

I've PRd or come very close to it about 30 of the last 40 days.

And i feel fine, and it's working.

Individuals vary, but if i recall you were talking about lifting once a week before, and i really really don't think you need that much recovery time.

I go by how i feel, i'm not going to take a rest day because some program says i should nor am i going to train if i don't feel right.

True.

OP, put simply if your lifts are progressing then you're resting enough. If your lifts have stalled then you need to look at rest or eating more.

Banks

soc$ wrote: »

I plan on sticking to this plan for 14 weeks so I guess I'll have my own answer at that point.

14 weeks is way to long to stick to 1 program.

Chris89

Banks wrote: »

14 weeks is way to long to stick to 1 program.

Why?

I have been doing a push/pull upper/lower split for the last three years.

No plateaus to speak of.

soc$

Banks wrote: »

14 weeks is way to long to stick to 1 program.

I plan on splitting the 14 weeks with a week of easy cardio, stretching, mobility and foam rolling.

I guess what's really coming through is that you have to find what works for the individual. Sort of like taking the basic rules of thumb and shaping them to work for you -

I'm blogging my training so I can keep track of what works and what doesn't, what I'm feeling, etc. -

But it's always good to have pointers from the pro's

Banks

Chris89 wrote: »

Why?

I have been doing a push/pull upper/lower split for the last three years.

No plateaus to speak of.

Are you using the the same rep & set range, same exercises??? Without unloading weeks?? cause if you are I seriously doubt you havn't plateaued yet.

14 weeks is way to long to stick to 1 program and if your changing any of the above then its not the same program.

SpookyBastard

Banks wrote: »

Are you using the the same rep & set range, same exercises....if your changing any of the above then its not the same program.

Huh?

Surely lots of programs have changes, increases in sets, reps, etc as part of the program? If I go on a 5 week program that has an increase in sets + reps every week does that mean its actually 5 programs stuck together?:p

brianthebard

Banks wrote: »

Are you using the the same rep & set range, same exercises??? Without unloading weeks?? cause if you are I seriously doubt you havn't plateaued yet.

14 weeks is way to long to stick to 1 program and if your changing any of the above then its not the same program.

No its not, I've been following westside for skinny bastard principles since January, that's one program...

Brian?

SpookyBastard wrote: »

Huh?

Surely lots of programs have changes, increases in sets, reps, etc as part of the program? If I go on a 5 week program that has an increase in sets + reps every week does that mean its actually 5 programs stuck together?

I change reps 3 times a week, does this mean I change programs 3 times a week????

SpookyBastard

briankeating wrote: »

I change reps 3 times a week, does this mean I change programs 3 times a week????

That's my point exactly. Think we must be misunderstanding what Banks is saying caus otherwise it's just silly.

Brian?

SpookyBastard wrote: »

That's my point exactly. Think we must be misunderstanding what Banks is saying caus otherwise it's just silly.

I was agreeing with you horse.

SpookyBastard

briankeating wrote: »

I was agreeing with you horse.

And I was agreeing with you and suggesting that we must be misunderstanding Banks :cool:

Banks

Yes, yes and yes, By changing reps ur obviously changing your training.... For example: <5reps emphasis on strength or power development, 6-10 hypertrophy..... etc etc

itsallaboutheL

Banks wrote: »

Yes, yes and yes, By changing reps ur obviously changing your training.... For example: <5reps emphasis on strength or power development, 6-10 hypertrophy..... etc etc

What about peaking cycles... what would you call those?

Banks

Peaking cycles would generally be called PEAKING CYCLES, or in french le PEAKING CYCLES!!!

Brian?

Banks wrote: »

Are you using the the same rep & set range, same exercises??? Without unloading weeks?? cause if you are I seriously doubt you havn't plateaued yet.

14 weeks is way to long to stick to 1 program and if your changing any of the above then its not the same program.

I am afraid, you are mistaken. Changing rep ranges, excercises or unloading doesn't mean you are changing program. Any good program will have one or all of the above built into it.

Look at 531, smolov for changing rep ranges. Starting Strength, Stronglifts and Bill Starr 5x5 all call for deloads when you hit a plateau.

I have spent since January mainly doing Bill Starr 5x5, that has a light day, medium day and heavy day. So 3 rep changes a week.

As I said before it all comes down to whether you are getting stronger.

soc$

briankeating wrote: »

I am afraid, you are mistaken. Changing rep ranges, excercises or unloading doesn't mean you are changing program. Any good program will have one or all of the above built into it.

Look at 531, smolov for changing rep ranges. Starting Strength, Stronglifts and Bill Starr 5x5 all call for deloads when you hit a plateau.

I have spent since January mainly doing Bill Starr 5x5, that has a light day, medium day and heavy day. So 3 rep changes a week.

As I said before it all comes down to whether you are getting stronger.

This would seem like common sense to me - from an athletes perspective an overall program would have many different aspects and changes all designed for the same goal. While I don't profess to understand enough to construct a complex program I do know my training over 2009 & 2010 had many changes depending time of the season but the end goal was the same -

As an aside, I did a medium weights session on Saturday and then a light run out yesterday and today I feel pretty good. Still a little sore in places but I have energy so should be able to train hard tonight.

Satanta

soc$ wrote: »

Still a little sore in places but I have energy so should be able to train hard tonight.

I trained for years like this... sticking to the schedule even if I was sore. I tried something a little different this year and extended the rest periods between gym days (hitting the gym every 3 days instead of every 2). I also changed my rest period between sets to 60 seconds instead of about 2 or 2.5 mins. Result is that I am getting better results from my workouts. I dont profess to know all... but there was a guy telling me for a long time that I shouldnt train if I am still sore and I didnt listen. Bottom line os that he was right all along!

soc$

Satanta wrote: »

I trained for years like this... sticking to the schedule even if I was sore. I tried something a little different this year and extended the rest periods between gym days (hitting the gym every 3 days instead of every 2). I also changed my rest period between sets to 60 seconds instead of about 2 or 2.5 mins. Result is that I am getting better results from my workouts. I dont profess to know all... but there was a guy telling me for a long time that I shouldnt train if I am still sore and I didnt listen. Bottom line os that he was right all along!

I was given the same advice but only in that I shouldn't train the sore muscles, i.e. Saturday I did a medium shoulders, back & hamstring session so my back is a little sore (lats & rhomboid mainly) - but tonight I'll do chest so it should be all good

Banks

briankeating wrote: »

I am afraid, you are mistaken. Changing rep ranges, excercises or unloading doesn't mean you are changing program. Any good program will have one or all of the above built into it.

Yes but the original quote said that the training was "Everything is to failure" which is crazy to continue for 14 weeks. Obviously if rep and or intensity changed each week/session then 14 weeks would be fine!!!:rolleyes:

Brian?

Banks wrote: »

Yes but the original quote said that the training was "Everything is to failure" which is crazy to continue for 14 weeks. Obviously if rep and or intensity changed each week/session then 14 weeks would be fine!!!:rolleyes:

Roll your eyes all you want, you said 14 weeks is too long to stick to 1 program, this was false.