High % of Failed businesses

Dr.Silly

anyone else think so,
from what I can remember...

there was the toy shop in the meridian.
the greystones Inn (and multiple other tenants perviously)
CD shop over the bridge.
Italian deli beside the CD shop.
The hardware shop opposite that.
Couple of baby shops.
Video Shop.

There's definetely alot more I think ?

MyPerfectCousin

1. It would help if you would say what your point is
2. One could easily make a longer list of Greystones businesses that have not failed
3. However, "according to Dun & Bradstreet and INC. magazine, 33% of all new businesses fail within the first six months. Fifty percent of new businesses fail within their first two years of operation and 75% fail within the first three years." That's in the US, but I would assume the rate isn't all that different in Ireland (and not just Greystones)
4. The hardware shop was there for many years as Evans Hardware, and then later as Gremma, which moved to Shankill I think
5. Video shops are an endangered species. Blockbuster in the US (which used to own Xtravision until it sold it off last year) is filing for bankruptcy this week

Dr.Silly

MyPerfectCousin wrote: »

1. It would help if you would say what your point is

My point is, given the amount of businesses in Greystones, I thought it was a high proportion that were closing down. Alot higher than the likes of blackrock for example.

MyPerfectCousin

Dr.Silly wrote: »

My point is, given the amount of businesses in Greystones, I thought it was a high proportion that were closing down. Alot higher than the likes of blackrock for example.

Maybe it is. But some of the examples you gave were from 5 years ago or more. It would make more sense if you used examples all from this year (or so).

I guess my point would be:

--It's the worst recession in 20 years, of course businesses are failing

--Greystones has always seemed to be a hard place for a new small retail business to succeed, even in boom times.

Merrilady

I would be interested in hearing opinions on why people think the retail businesses in Greystones are not succeding.

The village seemes busy enough at the weekends and later in the week, do people just not shop in greystones ?

As a member of the community I like to buy locally, however more often than not I have to go to Dundrum / Arklow / Dublin.

RosieJoe

Greystones is not the only place suffering from closing businesses. All you have to do is look at Bray and Dun Laoire to see the common trend.

I have to agree with MyPerfectCousin. I think people should be optimistic about new businesses starting up, like the flower shop and the wine shop, rather than negative in discussing closing businesses.

GingerDave

Merrilady wrote: »

I would be interested in hearing opinions on why people think the retail businesses in Greystones are not succeding.

The village seemes busy enough at the weekends and later in the week, do people just not shop in greystones ?

As a member of the community I like to buy locally, however more often than not I have to go to Dundrum / Arklow / Dublin.

I think alot of it is to do with rent demands. High rents means high fixed costs = high prices= no value for money= limited trade. I have money to spend but find no value in the village.

Property is down 50% from peak, how much has rent fallen?
Its the same old story landlords value property/rent on want price they need, not what price the market is actually at.

loyatemu

people don't really shop for anything other than local grocery-type stuff in Greystones as there just isn't the range of shops. Its not a traditional market town, more an overgrown village. However in the case of some of the ones you mention:

the toy shop in the meridian.

was too small to compete with the likes of Smyths and Argos - small toy shops are always going to struggle.

the greystones Inn

its a badly designed building in a bad location - people don't want to drink there.

CD shop over the bridge.

has been gone for a good few years now, but record shops in general are doomed and are closing down everywhere.

Video Shop

the whole chain went into liquidation, and like record shops, video rental is on its way out as a viable concept (in brick-and-mortar shops at least).

Dr.Silly

RosieJoe wrote: »

Greystones is not the only place suffering from closing businesses. All you have to do is look at Bray and Dun Laoire to see the common trend.

I have to agree with MyPerfectCousin. I think people should be optimistic about new businesses starting up, like the flower shop and the wine shop, rather than negative in discussing closing businesses.

It's not negativity RosieJoe, it's just reality unfortunately.
As stated in another thread, I think the new flower shop will last a year.
I don't want it to last that long, but I think that's the reality, and I don't actually put 100% blame of that to the recession at all.
There is a fine line between passion for a business which overshadows the customers needs

d'Oracle

People talking optimistically about new businesses on an internet forum is not going to make ANY difference about the performance of said business.

I think we can do with out the PC tut-tutism and let people express an opinion without having to bear the absurd disapproval that I'm seeing here recently.
At the end of the day I'm sure the folks in the new flower shop could care less about optimistic Internet posts. What they want is your money in exchange for pleasant smelling plant matter.

Also, this is not just about the recession, businesses in particular locations in Greystones have always had trouble, the recession has not been going on that long.

Dr. Silly, businesses down by the railway bridge have failed a lot over the years. I suspect that it is due to the fact that they are off the main street and so people really don't see them that much.
Other than that MyPerfectCousins points (2-5 anyway, I think 1. was for ironic value or something) are very valid observations.

GingerDave

A pawnbrokers would go down a treat on the high street!

Seriously, there are a lot people in Greystones who like to "play at shop". Then they realise the numbers don't stack up.

It can take 20 years to build a good strong local business, most people don't do the research, look at the detail or do a decent business plan!! And if they did, with the high costs involved and the turnover required to just breakeven, they wouldn't even bother openning in the first place.

Dr.Silly

GingerDave wrote: »

It can take 20 years to build a good strong local business, most people don't do the research, look at the detail or do a decent business plan!! And if they did, with the high costs involved and the turnover required to just breakeven, they wouldn't even bother openning in the first place.

spot on

mikedragon32

Optimistic?

I wonder at the naivety of someone opening the FOURTH flowershop in the village and one of god knows how many wine retailers in Greystones.

Of course we should be supporting local businesses, but there is a limit!

Gingerdave is spot on. Some folks like to play at shop.

loyatemu

mikedragon32 wrote: »

Optimistic?

I wonder at the naivety of someone opening the FOURTH flowershop in the village

is it the fourth? there were 2 on Church Rd, but one has closed since - where are the others?

mikedragon32

loyatemu wrote: »

is it the fourth? there were 2 on Church Rd, but one has closed since - where are the others?

By the train station, Meridian, next to Jeeves (maybe that one's closed, if it is, then it brings even more doubt into the wisdom in opening another!) and now the new one in Moran's.

danjo

Greystones has always been a dormitory town. Initially it was a retirement area for senior military people.
Today most of the inhabitants work in the city and commute. Hence they purchase most items outside the town.
The future for Greystones, in my opinion, is a centre of excellence of good food at reasonable prices. We have many retaurants doing quite well despite the recession. I do think the prices could be reduced to entice more business.
Greystones is not suffering any more than neighbouring towns and I believe has better prospects than most.One thing we could do is to speed up the removal of the shuttering around the harbour to improve the environment for locals and visitors.

d'Oracle

danjo wrote: »

Greystones has always been a dormitory town. Initially it was a retirement area for senior military people.
Today most of the inhabitants work in the city and commute. Hence they purchase most items outside the town.

What are ya talking about, chap.
Greystones is text book. Lethal.

egorski

greystones if far from a text book Irish town.....I just moved from Blackrock and it is seriously dead compared to Greystonesat the weekend. I think that cheaper/more availabe taxis, Greystones population increases have changed the game.Its well known that new business's have a massive failure rate, then again people start mad businesses for all the wrong reaons - however - the perception that Greystones has a higher failure rate than anywhere is else is most likely wrong because we are a relatively small community (compared to Dublin) and any change is discussed at length. In fact, I think that new businesses in Greystones would have a better chance than the majority of most places in Ireland - whatever those odds are......

Bettyboop

Heatons does well because its cheap we need more cheap shops not expensive ones but maybe that would lower the tone of the place for some:D We are in a recession and how many flower shops and coffee shops do we need?Boutiques and expensive baby shops are alright for some but a lot of people I know me included look for bargains.Bring in Dunnes Stores I say;)

danjo

I would be very surprised if Heaton's are even covering their costs not to mind making a profit. Yes they are cheap but Cheap sales equals low profit margins. Just imagine the rental, staff and energy costs. Notice they no longer employ a security person but they would generally have about three staff.
I don't think boutiques will do well but there is a market for flowers but maybe not large enough to sustain them all.

Merrilady

Interesting opinions from everyone.
So are we all looking for value for money
Silly question, of course we are.

A friend of mine enquired about the liitel building beside the dart, next door to the flower shop. The rent was ridiculous, something like €25/€30k per year. This means whoever takes it over is paying 2-2.5k per month .. seems steep to me. This would mean a turnover of possibly 3-3.5k per month, or 1k per week to be breaking even !!
Surely it would be better to fill the units, than look for 2005 rents and leave it empty.

Anyhooooooo, just wondering out loud, am not a businesswoman so I'm sure my thoughts are black and white

Ok rant over ... for now :-)

Dr.Silly

Merrilady wrote: »

Interesting opinions from everyone.
So are we all looking for value for money
Silly question, of course we are.

A friend of mine enquired about the liitel building beside the dart, next door to the flower shop. The rent was ridiculous, something like €25/€30k per year. This means whoever takes it over is paying 2-2.5k per month .. seems steep to me. This would mean a turnover of possibly 3-3.5k per month, or 1k per week to be breaking even !!
Surely it would be better to fill the units, than look for 2005 rents and leave it empty.

Anyhooooooo, just wondering out loud, am not a businesswoman so I'm sure my thoughts are black and white

Ok rant over ... for now :-)

There is no point in talking about breaking even, who wants to break even ? Breaking even means going bust.

at 2.5k rent per month, generating a turnover of 3.5k per month will not even break even.
insurance, phone, electricity, rates, staff, etc, etc .....

loyatemu

Merrilady wrote: »

Surely it would be better to fill the units, than look for 2005 rents and leave it empty.

tell that to the owners of the charlesland pub, or the jackie skelley's unit. It appears some landlords would prefer to have their property sit empty than actual receive some rent for it.

Merrilady

Dr.Silly wrote: »

There is no point in talking about breaking even, who wants to break even ? Breaking even means going bust.

at 2.5k rent per month, generating a turnover of 3.5k per month will not even break even.
insurance, phone, electricity, rates, staff, etc, etc .....

Exactly - who could do that turnover at the moment.
I also agree with Loyatemu - it just seems madness doesnt it

It would be interesting to see what kind of businesses people would like to see in the village.
Personally, I would love to see the old cinema revamped and become a working cinema again

d'Oracle

Merrilady wrote: »

It would be interesting to see what kind of businesses people would like to see in the village.
Personally, I would love to see the old cinema revamped and become a working cinema again

I'd like to see that be a pub.

transport

One of the main reasons as to the lack of people spending in greystones, is due to the simple fact of HAVING TO PAY FOR PARKING, this only drives people out of the town, and over to the big retail parks where the parking is FREE, until the chamber of commerce, and all the local businesses stand up and demand for the return of free parking, people will continue to go elsewhere.

Cheeky Chops

I believe Wicklow Town introduced free parking on Saturdays. A great idea.

I understand, as much as I dislike it, the need for paid parking on week days due to the fact of so many commuters and traffic issues with the school runs etc.

Ginger Dave is talking a lot of sense.

I just wish some new businesses would open .. as in new business to the town. Not more of the same. How many flower shops, places to buy wine or cafes does one small town need? I wish them well but I personally would like to see more diversity.

I also hope the Chamber of Commerce will engage more with the residents and look for feedback and ideas.

ciaran67

Cheeky Chops wrote: »

I believe Wicklow Town introduced free parking on Saturdays. A great idea.

I understand, as much as I dislike it, the need for paid parking on week days due to the fact of so many commuters and traffic issues with the school runs etc.

Ginger Dave is talking a lot of sense.

I just wish some new businesses would open .. as in new business to the town. Not more of the same. How many flower shops, places to buy wine or cafes does one small town need? I wish them well but I personally would like to see more diversity.

I also hope the Chamber of Commerce will engage more with the residents and look for feedback and ideas.

Cheeky Chops for Mayor!

Greystoner

Bettyboop wrote: »

Heatons does well because its cheap we need more cheap shops not expensive ones but maybe that would lower the tone of the place for some:D We are in a recession and how many flower shops and coffee shops do we need?Boutiques and expensive baby shops are alright for some but a lot of people I know me included look for bargains.Bring in Dunnes Stores I say;)

Plug time!: If you are looking for baby and children's bargains, come along to the tabletop sale at St. Patricks next Sat, 2.30-5.30pm!!!

Cheeky Chops

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheeky Chops
I believe Wicklow Town introduced free parking on Saturdays. A great idea.

I understand, as much as I dislike it, the need for paid parking on week days due to the fact of so many commuters and traffic issues with the school runs etc.

Ginger Dave is talking a lot of sense.

I just wish some new businesses would open .. as in new business to the town. Not more of the same. How many flower shops, places to buy wine or cafes does one small town need? I wish them well but I personally would like to see more diversity.

I also hope the Chamber of Commerce will engage more with the residents and look for feedback and ideas.


Cheeky Chops for Mayor!

LOL! But I would have to become a politician and mix with politicians ... :eek:

Bettyboop

Greystoner wrote: »

Plug time!: If you are looking for baby and children's bargains, come along to the tabletop sale at St. Patricks next Sat, 2.30-5.30pm!!!

will be there
Thanks

JoeTurner

Nosh n Coffee in the Meridian Centre closed up yesterday too....That's one less coffee shop in the village now.

NarkyBoots

JoeTurner wrote: »

Nosh n Coffee in the Meridian Centre closed up yesterday too....That's one less coffee shop in the village now.

No way!! Seriously??? Hubby will be devastated and I'll miss the flat whites :eek:

JoeTurner

NarkyBoots wrote: »

No way!! Seriously??? Hubby will be devastated and I'll miss the flat whites :eek:

Yeah - some issue with the lease apparently. Will be sad to see them gone too.

Rasmus

Nooo not Nosh!! Permenantly?

Blandpebbles

Oh no, people will have to make a coffee at home now!! and who will see them walking around with a coffee cup in hand looking all trendy..?

Meridian is a bit off the beaten tracken for most unless you park in there and I am not sure the Wine Shop will last in the Old Evans Building, but heres hoping.

My cousin was due to open a shop on the old Thrift shop site, but couldn't come to an agreement with the landlord, i.e. he wouldnt shift to a reasonable price.

Rent is the main enemy of enterprise in Greystones and elsewhere

loyatemu

Nosh always seemed busy enough, and was popular with yummy-mummy types as you could get in with a pushchair, unlike Insomnia, Homan's etc which are a bit tight...

Cheeky Chops

I'm not one to go to the coffee shops but I am sorry to hear of any business closing.

When will the bloody rents be addressed?

Dr.Silly

Cheeky Chops wrote: »

When will the bloody rents be addressed?

It's nothing to do with when the rents will be addressed.

It's to do with the business people accepting to pay the rents in the first place which is the No. 1 mistake.

Annasopra

Dr.Silly wrote: »

It's nothing to do with when the rents will be addressed.

It's to do with the business people accepting to pay the rents in the first place which is the No. 1 mistake.

well no because it's a case where there are upward only rent reviews and some landlords are demanding excessive increases

Dr.Silly

Johnnymcg wrote: »

well no because it's a case where there are upward only rent reviews and some landlords are demanding excessive increases

Not in todays market they're not,
it's up to the business owners to have strong contracts in place, and have lenghty periods where rent cannot be reviewed.

Annasopra

Dr.Silly wrote: »

Not in todays market they're not,
it's up to the business owners to have strong contracts in place, and have lenghty periods where rent cannot be reviewed.

yes that's today - but existing leases were signed in very different circumstances

Justthefacts

d'Oracle wrote: »

I'd like to see that be a pub.

cause pubs are really profitable and Greystones has how many?

d31b0y

Justthefacts wrote: »

cause pubs are really profitable and Greystones has how many?

You registered just to post that.... in a 9 month old thread

cavemeister

In terms of businesses in Greystones Main street - It seems that it's only the established premises that are surviving. ie restaurants and boutiques.. I cannot understand how so many of those boutiques have not gone bust - They only target a very small % of people in greystones - whereby the businesses that target everyone are going under.

NAMA must be an influence in property prices in greystones… The old Jackie Skelly's Gym for example… The annual rent on that buliding was 250k a year - The premises was owned by a very famous property developer and when rents were discussed, he wouldn’t budge. Why? Because it made no odds to him - If he kept the 250k a year rent - great, if not - Off to NAMA with it - No skin off his nose. Now the gym is sitting there rotting and it's in NAMA - It’s a purpose built facility that no other business could operate in! It’s a disgrace! I would bet my bottom dollar that the greystones Inn is in a similar situation.

I think also that the properties on the main street are too small for anything other than independent businesses - UK high street chains woud do well in greystones but they require a certain square footage in order to operate and with cash injections for startup from UK HQ, they would stay afloat - Next, Zara, H & M etc.

Meridian was a disaster - When the planning permission was approved, it was approved only with the presence of a flagship store i.e a supermarket giant - Dunnes had initially agreed to open a homewares & cloting store and so building was started - towards the end they pulled out and no other flagship would agree to set up - Hence Heatons is now there and you can be sure they got knock down rents to open too! As a result, the foot-fall in the Meridian centre (even at weekends) is far too low to attract any decent businesses in.

It's a shame really - Greystones is a great town but no variety oh and don't get me started on 3 sets of traffic lights spread over 200 metres!!:mad:

darter

cavemeister wrote: »

oh and don't get me started on 3 sets of traffic lights spread over 200 metres!!:mad:

You're quite a bit off with your 200 m figure. It's almost 500 m.

As it happens, I think all 3 pedestrian lights are very well placed.
1) Crossing the road by the beach is dangerous because of the right-hand bend just to the S of it. Before those lights were in place, we had on a number of occasions to scurry across as cars came whipping down that road.
2) Outside the DART station is an absolute must for a pedestrian light. So many people pour out of there when the DART arrives that the light not only controls the traffic but also controls the people.
3) The light outside SuperValu is also absolutely required. People come into Greystones too fast, despite the bump, and it is hard to cross otherwise there.

Sorry that these lights might slow you down, but it is a village street that is really too narrow for the traffic these days and pedestrians should always have priority over car drivers - not only for ecological reasons but for simple safety ones. A person coming up against a 1 ton killing machine usually looses out.

There is some talk of closing it off and making it pedestrian only. Would be great to try it out on Summer Saturdays as a trial. Make Greystones attractive during the Summers to get Dubliners out for the day.

Tiradon

I may be wrong but I'm sure Heatons wanted to sell clothing when they opened but were restriced to what they could/could not sell. Also, I think they were given extremely generous revised terms to prevent them moving up to the Lidl development. If they moved out of the Meridian, it would be a disaster for the other shops unless they got another major flagship store in there quickly.