Nature in the News

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Base price wrote: »

Yep that's them with their rusty/red breasts and grey heads with a bit of a quiff. Lots of them around here. I presume they are eating flies/bees that are feeding on our GLAS wild bird cover.

We're wandering a bit off topic here apologies. Sparrows and Chaffinch will take insects like caterpillars when raising young but are primarily seed eaters.

fryup

**********Whale Watch This Weekend*************

if you're at a loose end this Saturday whale watch on many headlands throughout ireland

idwg.ie

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

CITES protection for Giraffes

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-49440949

OpenYourEyes

Three articles in prominent news outlets encouraging a better understanding of Urban Gulls. It might not solve some of the conflicts associated with them, but it will certainly allow for a more reasoned debate as to how to address any problems and encourage us to leave potential culls as a last resort rather than a first one!

'In Defence of Seagulls'
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2009/aug/19/seagulls-birdwatching-stephen-moss

Don't demonise seagulls, they're lovely birds (apart from a few bad eggs)
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/family/life/dont-demonise-seagulls-lovely-birds-apart-bad-eggs/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

In Defense of Sea Gulls: They’re Smart, and They Co-Parent, 50/50 All the Way
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/23/science/seagulls-behavior.html?fbclid=IwAR1CEPxDWL7mmcjcwLjFnbiR-ef_fxZxm30WDAMiJr47uTYn7B0wEM_fbuE#click=https://t.co/pxKe7Lq7Yi

New Home

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Additional protection for 18 species of shark and ray.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-49466717

Stigura

Nice sized cloud of Redwings just gave me a fly past! They're back!

(Considers the apples in the freezer. The whoosh net in the drawer! :cool:)

Keplar240B

New Home wrote: »

I have seen this reported as 100 or 150 million ,350 million.

Whats the actual number. Who counted?

If we take 150 million its the equivalent of 0.06792 % of Ethiopia land area planted.

given a population of ~100 million. That's 1.5 trees per person.


A step in the right direction ,

Taken in the context Ethiopia explosive population growth and the destruction of its forests over last 50 years its rather meaningless.

,

recedite

Keplar240B wrote: »

I have seen this reported as 100 or 150 million ,350 million.Whats the actual number. Who counted?...

Taken in the context Ethiopia explosive population growth and the destruction of its forests over last 50 years its rather meaningless.

Virtue signalling; its all about the photo and the soundbyte.
Actual facts tend to take a back seat.

New Home

Still, trees were planted, and that has to be a good thing. Start as you mean to go on, and all that.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

100 million plus trees is still 100 million plus trees.


I don't know why there's often a reluctance to give credit where credit's due.

magicbastarder

virtue signalling is where you claim to be virtuous without actually having achieved anything significant.
planting trees in the 9 figures is significant.

Del.Monte

magicbastarder wrote: »

virtue signalling is where you claim to be virtuous without actually having achieved anything significant.
planting trees in the 9 figures is significant.

Planting loads of trees is one thing but looking after them to maturity is another story. Virtue signalling to me too.

magicbastarder

in what sense do you mean 'looking after them'? as in protecting them from being chopped down?

i'm somewhat agog at the cynicism. damned if you do, damned if you don't.

magicbastarder

virtually every ecologist worldwide: "we need more trees!"
ethiopia: "hey folks, we planted more than 100 *million* of them"
some of the reaction: "you only did that to pretend you care".

tricky D

It is Defeatism which guarantees nothing will ever improve. Even trying and failing has more merit than doing nothing at all.

baaba maal

recedite wrote: »

Virtue signalling; its all about the photo and the soundbyte.
Actual facts tend to take a back seat.

A common definition of virtue signalling is "the action or practice of publicly expressing opinions or sentiments intended to demonstrate one's good character or the moral correctness of one's position on a particular issue."

So, the numbers of tree planted is open to debate (and I have no idea whether it ten million or three hundred million), but trees were planted, not just opinions expressed. Unless you think it is all "fake news" by the MSM etc.?

recedite

baaba maal wrote: »

So, the numbers of tree planted is open to debate (and I have no idea whether it ten million or three hundred million), but trees were planted, not just opinions expressed. Unless you think it is all "fake news" by the MSM etc.?

I've no doubt some trees were planted, and the photos are there of the govt. guys with spades to prove it. Somebody got a grant.
I hope they grow, but maybe a herd of goats will be driven through there tomorrow.

Apart from agriculture, one of the main reasons trees don't do well in Africa is that a lot of people do their daily cooking on charcoal, which means they are constantly on the prowl for sticks and firewood.
If you think Ethiopia is suddenly going to be transformed from an almost treeless landscape to an arboreal paradise as a result of this latest promotion, be my guest.

odyssey06

tricky D wrote: »

It is Defeatism which guarantees nothing will ever improve. Even trying and failing has more merit than doing nothing at all.

I'm not going to call it virtue signalling, but it's also worth pointing out that planting them is only half the battle.
Now if they have planted them with zero plan or budget or intention for maintenance, then it might be virtue signalling.

Trying and failing doesn't have merit if it precludes you from doing something more practicable than you can sustain and succeed at. That would be a concern.

Del.Monte

magicbastarder wrote: »

virtually every ecologist worldwide: "we need more trees!"
ethiopia: "hey folks, we planted more than 100 *million* of them"
some of the reaction: "you only did that to pretend you care".

To me it's like Ireland being out there in declaring a Climate Emergency and then doing Sweet FA about it - as usual.

baaba maal

recedite wrote: »

I've no doubt some trees were planted, and the photos are there of the govt. guys with spades to prove it. Somebody got a grant.
I hope they grow, but maybe a herd of goats will be driven through there tomorrow.

Apart from agriculture, one of the main reasons trees don't do well in Africa is that a lot of people do their daily cooking on charcoal, which means they are constantly on the prowl for sticks and firewood.
If you think Ethiopia is suddenly going to be transformed from an almost treeless landscape to an arboreal paradise as a result of this latest promotion, be my guest.

I don't for one moment think "Ethiopia is suddenly going to be transformed...to an arboreal paradise"- I was just taking issue with you claiming it was merely virtue signalling.

I'm well aware of the many environmental issues in Africa and elsewhere. It is also important to acknowledge if something positive is attempted. you could say that any large scale treeplanting project is at risk from grazing livestock- you could also say that the people who plant the trees are aware of the grazing habits of their livestock and take steps to enable the plants to become established.

recedite

baaba maal wrote: »

people who plant the trees are aware of the grazing habits of their livestock and take steps to enable the plants to become established.

Definitely. I didn't see the local goatherds in the photo though, I saw guys in suits who probably came out from Addis Ababa in their Mercs, with the press photographers. So we don't know who really planted the trees (probably hired labourers) but it does not look to me like a local initiative.

baaba maal

recedite wrote: »

Definitely. I didn't see the local goatherds in the photo though, I saw guys in suits who probably came out from Addis Ababa in their Mercs, with the press photographers. So we don't know who really planted the trees (probably hired labourers) but it does not look to me like a local initiative.

In fairness, you seem to be extrapolating from just one photo- and yes, ministers may well have have been whisked away in their Mercs after doing a photocall. But if, for example, you saw a picture of a Minister here turning the ceremonial sod for a new motorway with the ceremonial shiny shovel, would you assume that they were then going to be laying the tarmac from Dublin to Wexford? It is just a photocall picture as politicians want to associate themselves with projects that reflect well on themselves. It doesn't preclude the possibility that many Ethiopians may have also planted trees for this project.

recedite

baaba maal wrote: »

It doesn't preclude the possibility...

No, but the chances are that the project is done in the typical African way.

baaba maal

recedite wrote: »

No, but the chances are that the project is done in the typical African way.

I'd say you're great craic at a party! We are both expressing opinions here to be fair and neither of can verify the project one way or the other. In my limited visits to West Africa I saw both good and bad examples of environmental projects- not everything in Africa is as bleak as frequently gets portrayed in this part of the world- and sometimes there are genuine success stories.

However, I do recall that Ethiopia was back buying fighter planes not long after the famine in the mid eighties, so I "get" the cynicism. I choose to believe that there are now many more trees growing in Ethiopia than before this project commenced- you are choosing to believe that it consists of a staged photo and nothing more- fair enough. For the record, there are large scale initiatives occurring in Africa that would appear to on a meaningful scale, for example: http://www.afr100.org

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

recedite wrote: »

No, but the chances are that the project is done in the typical African way.

I spent many periods in Africa on environmental projects and they do them a heck of a lot better than we do in our "typical Irish way".

recedite

baaba maal wrote: »

For the record, there are large scale initiatives occurring in Africa that would appear to on a meaningful scale, for example: http://www.afr100.org

That's actually all part of the same thing.

Here's more photos of the same guys, from your link.

Look, I agree neither of us has done a lot of research into this particular project. My opinion is that this fits the usual pattern. Foreign aid pours in, Mr 20% appears and takes his cut (mercs don't come cheap)
Mr 10% then appears and takes his cut. Some goatherds get told to remove their goats from the area they have been herding on. Govt. appointed guys swoop in and plant trees. When the dust settles, goatherds return to do what goatherds do.
Anyway, I see the Germans are stumping up a lot of the money, so its only fair that they get a lot of it back in sales of high end cars.
Party on, dude.

baaba maal

You have laid out what you think will happen here, but you don't actually have any evidence to back it up, other than a general assumption that corruption pervades every facet of life there and that everything is doomed to failure.

Given the context:

Abiy kicked off his day in southern Ethiopia where he joined officials to plant seedlings in ArbaMinch. The campaign is part of the wider fight against environmental degradation.

Since May when the tree planting drive was launched, the Prime Minister made it a focal point of all his meetings and engagements around the country.

He planted seedlings with all guests that visited him at his office. He also planted special saplings in honour of slain officials of the June 22 assassinations in Amhara region and Addis Ababa.

Ethiopia has in recent years suffered from the negative impact of climate change especially in relation to droughts in parts of the country.

Reports indicate that in 2017, over 2 million animals died in Ethiopia due to drought because of the scarcity of rainfall.


So, it wasn't just a one-day event for the PM, he was also planting some in memory of Ethiopian politicians and officials killed in a coup attempt in June and also following on from drought exacerbated by the massive loss of tree cover in the last fifty years- so it is just possible, that (gasp!) a politician was trying to do the right thing and was maximising publicity for it by making it an issue in his daily work.

I included the link to indicate that there was a larger project beyond just Ethiopia. It is just possible that the goatherds there are aware of the deforestation and manage their herds to prevent them chewing up the saplings.

recedite

Moses Faithful Slime wrote: »

I spent many periods in Africa on environmental projects ...

Was the champagne any good?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

recedite wrote: »

Was the champagne any good?

You sarcasm is falling on deaf ears. I was there and involved in environmental projects. Were you?

Nowhere is perfect but they are certainly putting in an honest decent and practical effort.