Songwriterdome: Springsteen Vs Waits

thenakedanddead

I'm starting a series of polls which will pair two singer-songwriters against eachother, purely for amusement purposes. The first of these competitions is between Bruce Springsteen and Tom Waits.


As per suggestion, could a mod just change the title of this, to something like "fight thread" and keep poll creation option open.

kerash

thenakedanddead wrote: »

I'm starting a series of polls which will pair two singer-songwriters against eachother, purely for amusement purposes. The first of these competitions is between Bruce Springsteen and Tom Waits.

No contest, Waits

/end thread

kthnxbi

Kevin Bacon

Anyone who votes against tom waits clearly hasn't listened to any tom waits. No contest this.

Mars Bar

Bruce all the way for me!

I downloaded some of Waits stuff after a recommendation from a friend. Took a few listens but his voice is so annoying that I just couldn't take it anymore.

Cicero

It's Waits.....all the way.....not really sure how this thread/idea will pan out but happy to adjust to whatever the OP is looking for etc- just re-adjust your original post accordingly - could be good to do a series of these....like a "musical fight thread" ...:D

OK...why Waits?: well

1. He moved from somewhat mainstream (Closing time) to total avant guard/ vaudeville with the likes of Orphans, Swordfishtrombones etc but still managed to keep his original following but yet push the boundaries of music, musical instruments and sounds.

2. He has shunned the "mainstream" - so many Springsteen fans were so disappointed with "Born in the USA" because of it's "commercial aspect"- not saying there's anything wrong with "commercial" but Springsteen is "big Arena" - Waits fits much better in a smaller venue - in fact, the smaller the more powerful - think Olympia- 1987-

3. He's more of a "musical poet" than a "singer" or "songwriter"- difficulty with this particular pairing is you're probably not comparing like genre with like genre - I would like to see a battle thread between Cohen and Waits- now that would really be a tough battle/decision:)

Springsteen is good at what he does but think he'd be better paired with Bryan Adams, The Eagles or Neil Young...Waits is just so out there on his own..

CDfm

Tom Waits is iconic and Blue Valentine is really great.

Heart Attack on Vine is probably my favorite of Waits and every song is a simple gem. Rod Stewart covered Downtown Train & Bruce Springsteen Jersey Girl. The songs are that good and stand up as pop songs.

Bruce has his fans and "Born in the USA" is a great pop record -not a bad song on it. It showed Bruces development as a songwriter/performer too and is more cohesive than the River.

Bruce could write good songs and Mannfred Manns cover of Blinded by the Light is a good example before he could carry the performance himself ."Atlantic City" "Hungry Heart" & "Born to Run" are great songs too but no Booce album does it for me.

Bruce fans have nothing to be ashamed of and I would pick him before Billy Joel.

JerryHandbag

Big fan of both, but Waits gets the nod for being more eclectic.

CDfm

Cicero wrote: »

It's Waits.....all the way.....not really sure how this thread/idea will pan out but happy to adjust to whatever the OP is looking for etc- just re-adjust your original post accordingly - could be good to do a series of these....like a "musical fight thread" ...:D

Yup it could be good

slade vs quo

sweet vs mott the hoople

sex pistols vs boomtown rats

elvis costello and the attractions vs the stranglers

whitesnake vs thin lizzy

Scoobydoobydoo

Definitely Tom Waits for me, but also the poll is a bit apples and oranges for me as has been pointed out, I don't think you can compare these two.
Bruce has his merits for sure, but is more of a mainstream hitmaker which doesn't really interest me.

Amazotheamazing

Has to be Bruce for me, Waits is great, but the albums Born to Run and Darkness on the Edge of town say a lot more to me about what is it get through tough times. Maybe I've missed out on the deeply personal stuff that Waits has written but don't think anyone has written about fathers and sons the way Bruce has (Adam raised a Cain, Independence Day, Walk like a Man etc.), unemployment, etc.

RichTea

Impossible decision (although I did opt for Bruce in the end, so maybe not impossible). I just think the character creation in Springsteen's finest work shades it ahead of Waits' salty yet rich lyrics. Love 'em both. Why do they have to fight?!

MickShamrock

The Boss.

bad2dabone

its one of those threads where you wish you could vote more than once

Personally I've got more experience of Springsteen, but I love Tom Waits too. A tough choice!

CDfm

RichTea wrote: »

. Why do they have to fight?!

Its how things are done along the jersey shore :pac:

rcaz

Ah, you can't compare them. Both excellent in very different ways. But since this is 'songwriterdome', I said Springsteen. For songs like Thunder Road, it's a novel in a song.

Straight up songwriting, Bruce > Tom. Interesting music, Bruce < Tom.

Cicero

CDfm wrote: »

Yup it could be good

slade vs quo

sweet vs mott the hoople

sex pistols vs boomtown rats

elvis costello and the attractions vs the stranglers

whitesnake vs thin lizzy

Mods..any thoughts on this- we could create one "Fight thread" and every 3-4 days, change the line up...would be better than creating loads of threads with different pairings I think....?

thenakedanddead

Any battle suggestions? I'd love to see the boss and the excitable boy going up against each other. Zappa and Beatles, that should be something of a hot contest.

rcaz

Radiohead vs. The Flaming Lips is the one I'm always trying to decide on.

JerryHandbag

thenakedanddead wrote: »

Any battle suggestions? I'd love to see the boss and the excitable boy going up against each other. Zappa and Beatles, that should be something of a hot contest.

Neil Young v Bob Dylan
Lennon v McCartney solo careers
Damien Rice v David Kitt
Tom Petty v Bryan Adams

CDfm

JerryHandbag wrote: »

Lennon v McCartney solo careers

I always think McCartney gets a bum rap cos really Lennon only recorded to 75 and Double Fantasy was with Yoko and Rock n' Roll was not that great. I am not a Macca fan but Imagine -the song is pretty juvenile .

What would you compare Imagine vs Band on the Run or would you compare the best of. Live and Let Die was probably the best Bond song ever and London Town LP wasn't bad.

Cicero

A PM request on some form of Battle/Fight thread on paired artists/bands has been sent to one of the Mods. I'll update when I get a reply- if well managed/devised with the appropriate rules in place, it could be a good idea but not sure what issues it raises so will let you know the outcome

OK..in the meantime, it's back to Springsteen Vs Waits. Thank's OP.

The Swordsman

Cicero wrote: »

.

2. He has shunned the "mainstream" - so many Springsteen fans were so disappointed with "Born in the USA" because of it's "commercial aspect"- not saying there's anything wrong with "commercial" but Springsteen is "big Arena" - Waits fits much better in a smaller venue - in fact, the smaller the more powerful - think Olympia- 1987-

Fans were disappointed! Where did you get that from??

Springsteen has released plenty of stuff that is far outside the mainstream and not all of the tours he has done have been 'big arena' (e.g. Devils and Dust 2006, Tom Joad 1996). He is a hugely versatile artist and performer.

And anyway, nothing wrong with the mainstream.

Cicero wrote: »

Springsteen is good at what he does but think he'd be better paired with Bryan Adams, The Eagles or Neil Young...Waits is just so out there on his own..

Tom Waits is great but out on his own? Absolutely not. There are plenty of songwriters to give him a run for his money.

To lump Springsteen (and Young) in with the Eagles (who are a load of people) and Bryan Adams is like comparing Barcelona with Blackpool.

CDfm wrote: »

Bruce fans have nothing to be ashamed of and I would pick him before Billy Joel.

Thanks for that mate - I can come out of the closet now

Cicero

The Swordsman wrote: »

Springsteen .... is a hugely versatile artist and performer.

Agree


Tom Waits is great but out on his own? Absolutely not. There are plenty of songwriters to give him a run for his money.

yea, but give us a few names....

To lump Springsteen (and Young) in with the Eagles (who are a load of people) and Bryan Adams is like comparing Barcelona with Blackpool.

yea, but eh.....your post below let's you down terribly......when I saw Cdfm compare Bruce to Billy, I just laughed....Bruce is waaay ahead of Billy as a performer and song writer....

Thanks for that mate - I can come out of the closet now

how could you even begin to compare Bruce to Billy in the first place....!:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::D

Cicero

The Swordsman wrote: »

Fans were disappointed! Where did you get that from??

I knew a lot of Bruce fans in the 80s who hated when Born in the USA came out- for them, it killed Bruce as a "niche"/different/alternative artist and they saw so many people jump on the Bruce Bandwagon that they went off him....was never a big "fan" myself, but could see their point of view...that's where my point was coming from...:)

dixiefly

Kevin Bacon wrote: »

Anyone who votes against tom waits clearly hasn't listened to any tom waits. No contest this.

I went to waits in the Phoenix Park, probably the most disappointing concert I have been to, most of the songs were completely weird. I have about 6 of his albums and I recognised 2 songs. I like a lot of his songs and I have many albums from all the best songwriters but he just didnt tick any boxes for me that night. Of the two I have probably become biased because Bruce is light years ahead of him in concert.

Regarding songwriters Paul Simon and Randy Newman are the best imo.

CDfm

You probably would struggle to compare Tom Waits to any other contempirary artist.

In terms of genre he is a bit of a specialist taste so who could you pick. Lou Reed at a push would probably work. More than Bruce. Iggy Pop.Peter Gabriel ??

Bruce will always give a better concert for fans, I prefer Waits.

The Swordsman

Cicero wrote: »

Springsteen .... is a hugely versatile artist and performer.

Agree


Tom Waits is great but out on his own? Absolutely not. There are plenty of songwriters to give him a run for his money.

yea, but give us a few names....

To lump Springsteen (and Young) in with the Eagles (who are a load of people) and Bryan Adams is like comparing Barcelona with Blackpool.

yea, but eh.....your post below let's you down terribly......when I saw Cdfm compare Bruce to Billy, I just laughed....Bruce is waaay ahead of Billy as a performer and song writer....

Thanks for that mate - I can come out of the closet now

how could you even begin to compare Bruce to Billy in the first place....!:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::D

Look at the top of the screen and you'll see one name giving Tom a good run (note the red bar). Dylan, Cohen, Zevon and many more would also.

You misunderstood me about Billy Joel, mate. I'm a Bruce fan and not really a Billy Joel fan. But actually he's written a few good songs and the Stranger is a good album. I'd rate him as an Everton (BJ, I mean - BS is a Barcelona). Glad I cleared that one up.

Cicero wrote: »

I knew a lot of Bruce fans in the 80s who hated when Born in the USA came out- for them, it killed Bruce as a "niche"/different/alternative artist and they saw so many people jump on the Bruce Bandwagon that they went off him....was never a big "fan" myself, but could see their point of view...that's where my point was coming from...:)

So, if Tom Waits had a huge hit with e.g. Martha tomorrow and suddenly everyone became interested in buying his albums, you could no longer like him?

Kevin Bacon

What the fudge? Came to check who was winning this... bruce? I'm losing faith in the music buying public (actually it was totally killed off when black eyed peas arrived on the scene and people exchanged money for that tripe, another story though).

If this poll was waits versus rest of all music every made i'd still be tempted to vote for tom waits.

Cicero

The Swordsman wrote: »

So, if Tom Waits had a huge hit with e.g. Martha tomorrow and suddenly everyone became interested in buying his albums, you could no longer like him?

no, definitely not..but I can understand how some fans treasure the fact that the artist they follow is just a bit "different" than all the more "mainstream" artists that are out there...if/when they become more popular, (either through a conscious decision to make a more commercially inclined album, or that it just happens to sell a load and the artist becomes more well known than before) I think that some of the attraction of that artist dies for some of the original fans...that's all....:)

CDfm

Maybe -but if you look at some singer songwriters such as Kris Kristofferson who recorded for several years and the infamous Loudain Wainwright or Ry Cooder then our boy Waits stacks up fairly well.

thenakedanddead

Interesting. The people who have commented on this thread seem to be largely Waits fan, yet Bruce is in the lead.

Cicero

thenakedanddead wrote: »

Interesting. The people who have commented on this thread seem to be largely Waits fan, yet Bruce is in the lead.

Bruce definitely has more followers....is better live in concert...is better well known........so yes, he'll probably score more points on this thread....but....





..Waits is the better artist...:p

CDfm

Cicero wrote: »

..Waits is the better artist...:p

"Porn in the USA" had a single "Dancing in the Dark" had Booce shaking his booty in a pair of Levi jeans a la "Dirty Dancing". Cute.

The E-Street Band are very talented and Roy Bittan the piano player was used by Jim Steinman on "Bat Out of Hell" so the E Street guys were stars and session musicians in their own right. So you had huge production budgets too.

Now - Tom Waits has never been a pretty boy and really is a solo artist.

JerryHandbag

Tom Waits is a pretty good actor too, saw him in The Book of Eli and a few others, cmon Brucie....Hollywood awaits!

Cicero

..I'm enjoying this thread more and more (and changing my thinking somewhat) because it does focus your mind on why you think one artist is better than the other- no matter what the pairing....
I think Waits wins because of his diversification in musical terms...from piano and strings to blues, to vaudeville/theater style... a man that can scream and still make music that sells albums is a man to be respected...

CDfm

vs

CDfm

CDfm wrote: »

PICTURES

And your point is???


I believe we're talking about the music...

CDfm

Papa Smut wrote: »

And your point is???


I believe we're talking about the music...

I think that Bruces best selling work positioned him as a rocker and don't get me wrong there is nothing wrong with it and he does it well. He had a great organisation behind him. I am not a fan but of its genre it is the business.

The pictures are just to illustrate the point.Waits is a completely different genre and has never been pop music or MTV. From both of their fields they are the best at what they do.

Mars Bar

CDfm wrote: »

"Porn in the USA" had a single "Dancing in the Dark" had Booce shaking his booty in a pair of Levi jeans a la "Dirty Dancing". Cute.

The E-Street Band are very talented and Roy Bittan the piano player was used by Jim Steinman on "Bat Out of Hell" so the E Street guys were stars and session musicians in their own right. So you had huge production budgets too.

Now - Tom Waits has never been a pretty boy and really is a solo artist.

Max Weinberg also did drums on BOH...

eamon234

Put it this way, I've never heard Tom Waits cover a Springsteen song. 'Nuff Said.

thenakedanddead

well would ya look at it. After what seemed like a close, albeit firm victory from Bruce, Waits is just one behind.

JerryHandbag

I think the Bruce critics should listen to Nebraska and then Devils And Dust, stadium crowd-pleasing rock it definitely is not. 2 outstanding albums separated by about 25 years.

The Swordsman

CDfm wrote: »

I think that Bruces best selling work positioned him as a rocker and don't get me wrong there is nothing wrong with it and he does it well. He had a great organisation behind him. I am not a fan but of its genre it is the business.

The pictures are just to illustrate the point.Waits is a completely different genre and has never been pop music or MTV. From both of their fields they are the best at what they do.

You're still not getting it.

The point is we're supposed to be comparing them as songwriters, not whether one is pop or has better album covers or is prettier. The fact that they're from different genres (though I'm not sure what so called genres either easily would fit in to- perhaps you could fill me in - try and base Bruce's on more than his biggest selling album) is also irrelevant.

The Swordsman

eamon234 wrote: »

Put it this way, I've never heard Tom Waits cover a Springsteen song. 'Nuff Said.

thenakedanddead

About two minutes left - talk about closure, not.

Cicero suggested a Lennon vs Dylan contest (hope they don't mind me disclosing this information) which I think could be rather interesting - oh - and extremely polarizing.

The Swordsman

When is the replay???

thenakedanddead

The Swordsman wrote: »

When is the replay???

Ya mean we should extend discussion for closure?


Lets have a five-poster off whereby the winner is inferred after five posts


ok, I'm saying Bruce, but with regret as I think Waits is a fine artist.

The Swordsman

thenakedanddead wrote: »

Ya mean we should extend discussion for closure?


Lets have a five-poster off whereby the winner is inferred after five posts


ok, I'm saying Bruce, but with regret as I think Waits is a fine artist.

Like a penalty shootout.

Bruce for me, too (though Tom is great).

Mars Bar

Bruce for me too!

thenakedanddead

And the winner is...

Bruce Springsteen

CDfm

The Swordsman wrote: »

You're still not getting it.

The point is we're supposed to be comparing them as songwriters, not whether one is pop or has better album covers or is prettier.

Its not about album covers but Bruce has thread the pop route and Waits has not.

If you like your story sings clean and nostalgic Bruce will be your boy.

I am not saying Bruce is less of a songwriter musician or lyricist but his (Waits) lyrics are seedier which I like and Waits musical template is wider and more dramatic, jazz, r & b, trad, musical theatre & music hall, and his voice more distinctive than Bruce.

Springsteen is always more at home with rock n'roll and thats not a bad thing. Springsteen's first album was more out there and weird lyrically. Waits was more accomplished and having mastered his craft as a balladier became more experimental.

Thats not saying either is better or worse - but Springsteens output could have been covered by a competant showband. Waits on the other hand would fit in there with Agnes Burnell on any night.

The fact that they're from different genres (though I'm not sure what so called genres either easily would fit in to- perhaps you could fill me in - try and base Bruce's on more than his biggest selling album) is also irrelevant.

Genre - Bruce is rock n'roll maybe not Bryan Adams or Jon Bon Jovi but John Mellencamp. Waits - jazz bars r & b and the Alabama Song.