Graduate takes uni to court over his result...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-11376021

"A Belfast graduate has taken his university to court after they awarded him a 2:2 degree.
Andrew Croskery, from County Down, applied for a judicial review of the grade he received from Queen's University in Belfast.
Mr Croskery claimed if he had received better supervision he would have obtained a 2:1, the High Court was told on Monday."

Students annoy me at the best of times but this is just taking the p1ss...better supervision?? Sorry mate, you're an adult, you're at university, you're supposed to be independant enough to not need your hand held the whole way along!
I would imagine this wouldn't do him any favors in his future employment prospects either, employers will click why his name seems familiar and remember this is the guy who took his university to court just because he didn't do as well as he wanted to and steer clear of him...but sure, graduates know best eh :rolleyes:

Adam

do you do your job better when supervised or unsupervised?

hidinginthebush

I agree OP, this is another case of abusing the legal system due to your own stupidity. (like people who sued mcdonald's after burning themselves with hot tea/coffee)

curlzy

Adam wrote: »

do you do your job better when supervised or unsupervised?

I do my job to the best of my ability at all times because I get paid to, you know? Do you slack off when unsupervised? How old are you?:rolleyes:

With regards Mr WaaWaa Ididn'tgetwhatIwant, what a loser, seriously no employer will go near him with a bargepole now and rightly so I think.

Dravokivich

curlzy wrote: »

Do you slack off when unsupervised?

Only when I'm on Boards.

petes

curlzy wrote: »

Do you slack off when unsupervised? How old are you?:rolleyes:

I do. It's great. I even do it when supervised!!

Shenshen

curlzy wrote: »

I do my job to the best of my ability at all times because I get paid to, you know? Do you slack off when unsupervised? How old are you?:rolleyes:

With regards Mr WaaWaa Ididn'tgetwhatIwant, what a loser, seriously no employer will go near him with a bargepole now and rightly so I think.

I think the point was more that most people work better with less supervision... I know I do.

bonerm

Is this actually with a view to getting a job in some particular company or is it just out of vanity? In the long term it really doesn't matter whether you got a 2.1 or a 2.2. Nobody will care except yourself.

flyton5

So because he was a lazy slacker he didnt get the result he wanted? I might talk to Joe and tell him it's a disgrace that I didnt finish college...if only someone had come around to my house and woken me up for all those 9am accounting lectures....

cheeky git!!

Mark200

bonerm wrote: »

Is this actually with a view to getting a job in some particular company or is it just out of vanity? In the long term it really doesn't matter whether you got a 2.1 or a 2.2. Nobody will care except yourself.

I don't see why it wouldn't matter. If you're competing for a job with someone who got a better grade than you, then obviously it'll make a difference.

There's plenty of job adverts that say "2.1 or higher required".

Trashbat

Adam wrote: »

do you do your job better when supervised or unsupervised?

Probably unsupervised. Well, at least not micro managed. Makes me jumpy and over cautious to have a superior looking over me. I find i'm professional enough to do my job without having to be told to.

I learned this skill in University, where I was expected to work without constant supervision.


Having said that, I think this could be a case of supervision being a requirement, where a supervisor is assigned to a student for a dissertation or research project. I know of situations where the lecturers constantly cancelled appointments and the like with students and the ty were left a little neglected. so it this is the case, fair enough.

Adam

Adam wrote: »

do you do your job better when supervised or unsupervised?

Neither, I do my job the same, and because I'm a big girl now I take responsibility for my own failures in life...thing is he didn't even fail, just didn't receive the grade he had hoped. Life's harsh, you can't win everything, you just got to learn to man up and deal with it. If there really was a problem with the teaching methods and whatnot he should have raised it long before receiving his result and took it up with the university directly, and he wasn't the only one doing the degree so if it really was bad then the rest should've been complaining aswell.

If he does get somewhere with this I can just see it starting off a trend

Columbia

Seems to be confusing a university degree with a secondary school class where the teacher will mollycoddle and spoonfeed you into trying to get a good grade.

At university you take on responsiblity for your own education, nobody will "make" you go to class. Such matters of character and organisation are part of university, and one of the reasons that a university degree is more prized than a secondary education. If he hasn't done this then he hasn't fully filled his course requirements, and so deserves the mark he got.

wes

When you have some work experience under your belt so to speak, whether you got a 2.1 or 2.2 tends to matter less and less. A court case like this will hurt him in the job market more than the grade imho. If he can't get the job he wants right away, get some work experience and apply again in a few years.

coffee_cake

bonerm wrote: »

Is this actually with a view to getting a job in some particular company or is it just out of vanity? In the long term it really doesn't matter whether you got a 2.1 or a 2.2. Nobody will care except yourself.

I think a masters requires a 2.1 or better, IIRC, that's what I needed.
That said, he has little hope of doing a masters if he kicks up a tantrum over this grade.

Naikon

Meh, most University courses vary dramatically when you consider the standard required for completing courses. You can't argue a 2.2 in Electrical Engineering is not a good result. Sure a 2.1 is the "gold standard" for academia and whatnot, but I would take a 2.2 in engineering or computer science over a 1.1 Arts student anyday. Engineering courses tend not to suffer from grade inflation. And for good reason. It's commonly known that colleges tend to(at least in the UK) inflate grades to match the 2.1 criteria set by most grad schemes. A 2.1 is a great result but believing that some arbitrary cutoff point is the be all and end all with respect to skill is wrong. I don't agree with his assertion that you need good supervision for projects mind you. You can do masters with a 2.2 btw. It's still an honours degree result. It's not a third, or a pass tbh.

Thirdfox

hidinginthebush wrote: »

I agree OP, this is another case of abusing the legal system due to your own stupidity. (like people who sued mcdonald's after burning themselves with hot tea/coffee)

http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur78.htm

3rd degree burns on 6% of your body, McDonald's offering 800 dollars for a 11,000 dollar medical bill (ultimately they had to pay a lot more when the case went to trial).

I don't think it's ridiculous that people can sue when the company knew of 800 previous cases of people burning themselves on 90 degrees coffee.

As a result - companies are more conscious about product safety, and that's good for the consumer.

Speaking as a law student

IvyTheTerrible

Jesus, what ever happened to personal responsibility?

Trashbat

Thirdfox wrote: »

http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur78.htm

3rd degree burns on 6% of your body, McDonald's offering 800 dollars for a 11,000 dollar medical bill (ultimately they had to pay a lot more when the case went to trial).

I don't think it's ridiculous that people can sue when the company knew of 800 previous cases of idiots burning themselves on 90 degrees coffee.

As a result - companies are more conscious about product safety, and that's good for the consumer.

Speaking as a law student

FYP

spurious

Wait til you see this happen on behalf of children whose parents will hire solicitors to 'prove' they didn't get enough help while at school.

We're already keeping detailed records in anticipation of a flood of cases.

All part of the culture of blaming someone else.

cp9a

Some people must think everything can be solved by complaining.

Kimono-Girl

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

Jesus, what ever happened to personal responsibility?

It seems it went out the window a long time ago! :rolleyes:

Handsome Bob

Columbia wrote: »

At university you take on responsiblity for your own education, nobody will "make" you go to class.

It might not be a simple case of that though. The fact that we're talking about a supervisor in itself indicates that we're talking about a research project or a thesis. If that is the case, anyone who has written a thesis will tell you how much of a significant role their supervisor played in the result they got. So if this bloke was writing a thesis and his supervisor's contribution was non existent then I would sympathise with his situation.

Adam

@ all_the_haters

i'm not saying the eejit deserves to win the case or anything, but be honest, most of us will work harder when surpervised than not supervised at all.

how many of you are at work right now?

Dardania

LZ5by5 wrote: »

It might not be a simple case of that though. The fact that we're talking about a supervisor in itself indicates that we're talking about a research project or a thesis. If that is the case, anyone who has written a thesis will tell you how much of a significant role their supervisor played in the result they got. So if this bloke was writing a thesis and his supervisor's contribution was non existent then I would sympathise with his situation.

TBH I did my thesis in elec engineering with a total of 3 meetings with my supervisor (I was on erasmus[doss] in Spain) and got a 72% mark... supervision isn't the be-all & end-all, if you have a topic you can work on solo

Dardania

Adam wrote: »

@ all_the_haters

i'm not saying the eejit deserves to win the case or anything, but be honest, most of us will work harder when surpervised than not supervised at all.

how many of you are at work right now?

it's all a case of motivations...in my workplace there's a Machiavellian mindset - I work when I want to, as long as I get the results.

If no one is checking on your final progress, if there's no performance metric...then there wouldn't be supervision...

The_Minister

Dardania wrote: »

TBH I did my thesis in elec engineering with a total of 3 meetings with my supervisor (I was on erasmus[doss] in Spain) and got a 72% mark... supervision isn't the be-all & end-all, if you have a topic you can work on solo

In most fields the student writes it up, but the supervisor tells them how to do it (what info in what order, where needs expansion etc).

Without that, your chances of passing drop dramatically.

starlit

I agree with a lot of posters here. Think that a supervisors input can make a huge impact and a difference on a students grade when it comes to the likes of a thesis project. Its their guidance towards the student that will be accounted for not just the students work. Of course the students work will be the deciding factor but a bit of proper direction will place the student at a higher regard if they follow good guidance coming from the supervisor. I know myself, I have done many major projects and the differences of my grades varied, they were all different projects had different supervisors for each but each of the supervisors guidance was slightly different, they wanted emphasis on certain aspects of the project to stand out more than other aspects. What the student might think is important and relevant might not be the case in the supervisors eyes and its up to the supervisor to point that out to the student if the student is unsure.

It really doesn't matter whether someone has a 1:1, 2:1 or a 2:2 or a pass degree. Its skills and experience employers are looking for. Why would they want to take on a student who got a first in their degree and have had no I mean zero work experience throughout their school and college days in comparison to someone who got a 2:1 or a 2:2 even a pass degree who has a fair bit of work experience and skills behind them whether be summer work, school/college placement/work-experience! I know myself have seen it happen to many students I know that have achieved all those kind of results and its usually been the ones who get below a 1:1.

Of course there are jobs out there and graduate work placement programmes that require a high standard with top notch results and even a top notch leaving cert but they still look for a reasonable amount of work experience! Its those who have relevant and enough work experience are the ones who will win out in the end of the day no matter what their degree result!

There are many Masters that only require a 2:2, even those that are a 1 or a 2:1 is a major requirement it isn't always and some courses will bend the rules a little even if someone got a 2:2 with relevant work experience they can still get into a Masters that require a 1 or a 2:1. Though you may need a 1 or a 2:1 for a PHd but every course is different might be some chance that a 2:2 is all you need even if its a Master and Phd course.

Columbia

LZ5by5 wrote: »

It might not be a simple case of that though. The fact that we're talking about a supervisor in itself indicates that we're talking about a research project or a thesis. If that is the case, anyone who has written a thesis will tell you how much of a significant role their supervisor played in the result they got. So if this bloke was writing a thesis and his supervisor's contribution was non existent then I would sympathise with his situation.

I am currently writing a thesis, I meet my supervisor once every two months. Yes, the supervisor's role is an important one, and I can't imagine anybody even getting a passing grade without extensive help. However, there are good and bad supervisors, you can talk to other postgrads, choose your supervisor and you can switch if it's not working out. This guy didn't take on any of that responsibility, as if the university was going to accept his sub-standard work just because in his opinion the supervisor that he chose (out of any university in Ireland, Britain, or even Europe) wasn't up to scratch.

orourkeda

This guy is a douche

Cookie_Monster

Adam wrote: »

how many of you are at work right now?

I'm in work but not at work, does that count?