Regional Airports

mk6705

Neon-Circles wrote: »

No, there's a Ryanair press release. No other routes are bookable after October apart from the above mentioned ones.

Jaysus. That's pretty bad. Sorry for doubting you and all.

highlydebased

Adro947 wrote: »

Jaysus. That's pretty bad. Sorry for doubting you and all.

I'd say its very probable that at least one or two sun flights will operate again next summer, so its a bit of a non event for him to go ranting and raving about Kerry being expensive etc etc! After all he doesnt need a base in Kerry- there are bases in Faro, Alicante etc now

Stinicker

Is Dusseldorf Weeze dead in the water so?

highlydebased

Stinicker wrote: »

Is Dusseldorf Weeze dead in the water so?

It is. Though it carried a reasonable amount of traffic from Shannon generally though winter.... 70% plus

Stinicker

Neon-Circles wrote: »

It is. Though it carried a reasonable amount of traffic from Shannon generally though winter.... 70% plus

Bugger was going to fly in there sometime next year. Weeze will now be totally unreachable from Ireland with this move as Kerry was the last link to it.

munchkin_utd

aerlingus flys from Dublin to Dusseldorf proper, rather than weeze which is nowhere near the city anyhow.

Stinicker

munchkin_utd wrote: »

aerlingus flys from Dublin to Dusseldorf proper, rather than weeze which is nowhere near the city anyhow.

I live in Kerry so it would have much handier, Kerry to Dublin and the large fee by Aer Lingus means to go now would be triple the cost and as much travelling time as if I went to New York. Dusseldorf 2011 just got the long finger I think.

mk6705

Stinicker wrote: »

I live in Kerry so it would have much handier, Kerry to Dublin and the large fee by Aer Lingus means to go now would be triple the cost and as much travelling time as if I went to New York. Dusseldorf 2011 just got the long finger I think.

Kerry to Stanstead then Stanstead to Weeze might work.

munchkin_utd

almost back on topic...

Ryanair are now saying that principal major airports might actually have some use in the world now

Ryanair is looking at opening routes to all major European airports bar the top three as slowing growth prompts the region’s top discount carrier to modify a strategy based on flying only to less-costly terminals.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/ryanair-chief-orsquoleary-plans-shift-to-major-airports-2350499.html

The shift in philosopy moving away from serving a shed up to hundreds of miles from any major centres of population surely doesn't bode well for Ireland regional airports.
(dublin and cork being the only major centres of population in the republic)

KenHy

The choice of airport locations was always odd, the larger ones (in the west) being at Shanonn and Knock (smaller towns) makes it inevitable that other regions will have (just) enough demand to keep an airport in other places. The sensible places to have airports would be Dublin (serving the same role as now), Cork (for the south including Kerry and Waterford), Galway (for the West/midWest), Derry (for the North West) and Belfast.

Nobody would be more than 2 hours from an airport and each of them would have a decent catchment area.

veryangryman

KenHy wrote: »

The choice of airport locations was always odd, the larger ones (in the west) being at Shanonn and Knock (smaller towns) makes it inevitable that other regions will have (just) enough demand to keep an airport in other places. The sensible places to have airports would be Dublin (serving the same role as now), Cork (for the south including Kerry and Waterford), Galway (for the West/midWest), Derry (for the North West) and Belfast.

Nobody would be more than 2 hours from an airport and each of them would have a decent catchment area.

Yeah, feck the midlands. Not as if the people there exist/matter

Athlone is the furthest possible nook of the country from any airport. 90 mins to Dublin/Knock, more to Shannon

I dont think that 2 hours to an airport is a reasonable time either. Definitely each airport needs better road/rail) infrastructure to them or if thats not forthcoming (i cant ever see an airport outside Dublin having direct rail links - please dont mention the technicality of Kerry!) then this midlands airport may gather legs.

On the other hand (just to have a balanced view), our roads are already overspecced for polulation. Dublin now has constant bus service Trams and a 3 lane bypass just like similar size places in UK (Sheffield/Leeds/Nottingham). Upgrades are planned too

We really arent that badly off.

oharach

veryangryman wrote: »

Yeah, feck the midlands. Not as if the people there exist/matter

Athlone is the furthest possible nook of the country from any airport. 90 mins to Dublin/Knock, more to Shannon

I dont think that 2 hours to an airport is a reasonable time either. Definitely each airport needs better road/rail) infrastructure to them or if thats not forthcoming (i cant ever see an airport outside Dublin having direct rail links - please dont mention the technicality of Kerry!) then this midlands airport may gather legs.

On the other hand (just to have a balanced view), our roads are already overspecced for polulation. Dublin now has constant bus service Trams and a 3 lane bypass just like similar size places in UK (Sheffield/Leeds/Nottingham). Upgrades are planned too

We really arent that badly off.

I'm sorry, but that comment is way off.

1. Athlone has less than 20,000 people. You can't have an airport. Sorry. You are 90 mins from one of the best served airports in Europe. Yes, there are some more undeserving candidates who have airports (Knock, Donegal), but we won't be making those mistakes again. How do you want the infrastructure improved from Athlone to the Airport? It's already motorway or DC the whole way! Long term, widening the motorway to Maynooth should be on the cards, however.

2. Of course Dublin has 'constant' bus services - it's hardly going to be a part-time operation. There are two tram lines, they don't even join, and no more will be built realistically in the next 10 years. We can only hope that MN and DU still go ahead.

3. Sheffield/Leeds/Nottingham are just not comparable. The biggest (Sheffield) has an urban area of around 600,000. Dublin is well over a million.

highlydebased

KenHy wrote: »

The choice of airport locations was always odd, the larger ones (in the west) being at Shanonn and Knock (smaller towns) makes it inevitable that other regions will have (just) enough demand to keep an airport in other places. The sensible places to have airports would be Dublin (serving the same role as now), Cork (for the south including Kerry and Waterford), Galway (for the West/midWest), Derry (for the North West) and Belfast.

Nobody would be more than 2 hours from an airport and each of them would have a decent catchment area.

Well Shannon was not built to serve Shannon town or Limerick or whatever, it was built almost solely as a stopover point in the bygone days when aircraft didnt have the range to cross the ocean non stop. A little unique in that regard

dubhthach

Neon-Circles wrote: »

Well Shannon was not built to serve Shannon town or Limerick or whatever, it was built almost solely as a stopover point in the bygone days when aircraft didnt have the range to cross the ocean non stop. A little unique in that regard

Well given that Foynes was just across the river from it and was the current location for trans-atlantic "Flying Boats" it made sense. Of course one could also point out that at the time it was in the then "President of the Executive Council" constituency, a certain Señor de Valera.

KenHy

veryangryman wrote: »

Yeah, feck the midlands. Not as if the people there exist/matter

Athlone is the furthest possible nook of the country from any airport. 90 mins to Dublin/Knock, more to Shannon

I dont think that 2 hours to an airport is a reasonable time either.

I'm from the midlands, of course it matters, but that does not change the fact that there is no deamand for a midlands airport! everywhere in the midlands would still be within 2 hours of one. I dont buy that 2 hours is too much either. if you want to go somewhere you'll travel that!

coolperson05

KenHy wrote: »

I'm from the midlands, of course it matters, but that does not change the fact that there is no deamand for a midlands airport! everywhere in the midlands would still be within 2 hours of one. I dont buy that 2 hours is too much either. if you want to go somewhere you'll travel that!

+1

2 Hours is nothing if it's a kind of maximum and it would when the western road infrastructure is done. A bit of marketing and promotion of Shannon and the from Kerry to Sligo should be using it. And if you travel extensively, or think 2 hours is too much, move to Swords!

L1011

A midlands airport would not get anything close to the service density Dublin has, meaning that to go most places you'd need to change flights somewhere... such as Dublin. Driving to Dublin would be quicker!!

veryangryman

MYOB wrote: »

A midlands airport would not get anything close to the service density Dublin has, meaning that to go most places you'd need to change flights somewhere... such as Dublin. Driving to Dublin would be quicker!!

Who is comparing it with Dublin?

If everyone is so accepting about this 2 hour arangement, why not use Tubber which is less than 2 hours from (amongst other places)....

Dublin
Galway
Limerick
Sligo
Kilkenny
Mullingar
Athlone
Tullamore
Portlaoise
Ballinasloe
Longford
Maynooth
Ennis

In summary, as far North as Enniskillen, as far east as Dublin, as far south as Fermoy and as far west as Connemara. Practically the whole Republic covered

Yes you will all say that these places have airports within 2 hours drive. My point is that this airport is far less "pie in the sky" to surviving on its own 2 feet than Donegal, Galway and Sligo put together. The whole country without exception is less than 2 hours from an airport with this being built.

Added to this, i dont buy MOLs idea that Ryanair are going to set back up in main airports until i see it. With that, i also predict that if it were built it would replace some of the cross-channel routes where DAA dont play ball with Ryanair

L1011

Compare it to whatever airport you want. You're a relatively short drive on high quality dual carraigeway from an airport with a massive array of flights that will *never* be replicated at a new one unless Dublin was to officially relocate.

Nobody from Donegal, Cork, etc would drive to "Tubber Airport" to then get a flight to change to another flight somewhere else when they can either *drive* to the change point or fly from their own airports!

dowlingm

If you've got the BILLIONS to build a new airport - 2/3 runways, CAT III, etc.etc. you've got the shekels to build roads and rails to it. Ireland doesn't have the money and doesn't NEED to do it. The missed opportunity was Aer Rianta not getting the parallel 10/28 built before the money ran out.

L1011

Bye Bye Galway/Ireland West:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0113/airports.html

I thought I heard that Sligo's PSO was gone too but its not in that article.

mk6705

MYOB wrote: »

Bye Bye Galway/Ireland West:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0113/airports.html

I thought I heard that Sligo's PSO was gone too but its not in that article.

Sligo's is gone. Knock is well capable of surviving this. Galway has a reasonable chance. Sligo is going to close unless some miracle happens for them.

dowlingm

Sligo won't like me saying this but no harm. It's a bit rougher on south Donegal folks (around Bundoran say) for whom it would have been the closer option. Bus Eireann saw this coming by improving the Sligo-Knock Airport service - they should probably make the first departure a bit earlier though since dep 0600 arr 0655 is cutting it too fine for an 0715 takeoff for Dublin.

After Euroceltic went swimming and it became clear the runway couldn't be extended without environmental consequences, the writing was on the wall - by contrast Knock has about 16 destinations on its timetable.

I had a look at Donegal Airport's location, thinking that the 0730 No. 30 bus from Dungloe could do a Dungloe-Airport-Dungloe run first - and then I saw how narrow the road is in Street View!

oharach

From the Dublin Airport website:

Passenger figures for November 2010:

Passenger numbers on domestic flights declined by 51% [on Novermber 2009] with just over 21,400 travelling on domestic routes during the month.

With figures like that, it's no wonder subsidising domestic flights is no longer value for money. Any airport that realistically won't be able to survive should bow out swiftly and gracefully, without becoming an unprofitable black hole for several years first.

Sponge Bob

oharach wrote: »

From the Dublin Airport website:

Passenger figures for November 2010: With figures like that, it's no wonder subsidising domestic flights is no longer value for money.

Have you forgotten about the weather so soon afterwards??

It appears that 2011 is the last year where Galway and Sligo qualify for Operational Subventions as well as PSO routes.

See my post on Galway here showing OPEX and PSO subventions together.

oharach

You'll have to forgive me, as I spend a lot of time over in England these days. However, from Wikipedia it does seem that the first snowfall in the Republic was on 26 November, so even allowing for 5 days of disruption there was still a massive underlying decrease in domestic passenger traffic, most of which is down to the motorways.

Thanks for the link.

Sponge Bob

The single biggest reason for a 50% YoY decline is the number of motorway completions since November 2009 inc M6 ( Dec 2009) M8 ( May 2010) M3 ( May 2010) and the M7 last month.

Other factors account for the balance, recession, weather ( in Nov 2010) , cost cutting, businesses shutting, tourism declines , Aer Arann examinership, etc.

Neworder79

MYOB wrote: »

Bye Bye Galway/Ireland West:

I thought I heard that Sligo's PSO was gone too but its not in that article.

They are ending the Dublin PSO routes to Sligo, Galway, Knock and Derry due to better transport options and poor return for the money.

But the review of regional airports also says operational grant should be stopped for Sligo and Galway as they are too dependent on subsidy and too close to other airports to survive, that Ireland West has the capacity to serve the Connaught region and grow as a sustainable business.

PSO was less than 2% of Ireland West passengers last year, take a look at the website, over 25 routes, 5 airlines and more just announced so it isn't going anywhere.

http://www.irelandwestairport.com/

nerobi10

I am going home in June and my hometown has a decent airport but Yahoo! Travel has NO flights for it. Is there anywhere online to book flights for small regional airports.

Sponge Bob

Ireland West Knock should not be allowed to collect their hidden headage tax any more. Departing passengers are charged €10 to go airside.