How can you teach a dog to fight back??

scudzilla

Ok, No smart answers please, pretty serious question here.

As a lot of you know we have a boxer called Brodi, she'll be 1 on Saturday.

A few of you have met her and will agree that she's the most mild mannered dog around, gets on great with every other dog she's ever met and plays great wit them.

This afternoon we went for a walk in our regular haunt of Malahide Castle, ended up by the benches and sat for a while letting her have a run, as e always do.

An old guy pulled up in a 4x4 and out popped a smallish Black Spaniel, he ran straight to Brodi, who was her normal friendly self, and attacked her, he had her pinned down and was biting her neck and face.

All she did was yelp, she didn't fight back or defend herself at all!!

We were about 20ft away and my wife ran over, the spaniel ran back to the car.

The old tosser didn't even bother coming to check if our dog was ok, he just went off on his merry old walk.

After checking Brodi over we found her to have a cut (1" long) above her eye and a gash on her neck.

We were both raging at the ignorance of this old tosser.

My question is this, Is there any way to teach a dog to defend itself?

onlyrocknroll

That man sounds like a pig.

In my experience most dogs that age react to violence in that manner, it takes them some time (maybe a year and half, just guessing) before they'll defend themselves. Don't think you'll have to (or should) do anything.

Mr. Presentable

I concur. Your dog is a pup. Experience will change her.

scudzilla

Just let me get this straight, i IN NO WAY condone dog fighting and am not looking for any dog fighting classes!!! Just wondering how she'll defend herself

onlyrocknroll

scudzilla wrote: »

Just let me get this straight, i IN NO WAY condone dog fighting and am not looking for any dog fighting classes!!! Just wondering how she'll defend herself

If you saying this because of my post then sorry, didn't mean to imply that you were asking that, its clear enough from your op what you're asking, and as a dog owner I know realistically that dogs fight and would be safer if they could defend themselves.

Maybe games that involve physical competition would help her become more assertive, like pulling on a short rope or something. But again I think that it'll just take a little time.

mymo

There's no way to do it. As she matures she may stand up for herself a bit, but really the best thing is call her to you when you see a strange dog and supervise the encounter.
One of mine has begun to growl at strange dogs(he's normally really friendly and bouncy), I am working on stopping this and socializing him as much as I can with strange dogs. I am sure this is from being attacked by strange dogs. The most recent time was last week, a lone dog off lead(black spaniel also, no owner) just ran up from behind and attacked(my two were on the lead), it took me kicking the dog over and over and 2 men shouting at it to get it to leave.
All the time my girl was howling in terror and the boy was silent and struggling to get away. Luckily he's very hairy so the dog just got a mouthful of hair and didn't do any damage, but if I could have found the owner, they would have got some bollocking over it.
I know how you feel, I had a large dog approach mine off the lead, min were on lead, and the guy said "she's not friendly" just before she attacked:mad:
If he knew why the hell didn't he put her on the lead or call her away!
He just strolled off.

belongtojazz

I'm not sure you should be teaching her to defend herself (this is only my opinion and has no basis other than my feelings).
If a dog attacks her and she doesn't fight back the aggression level in the other dog remains stable(ish) however if she starts to fight back then you end up with 2 dogs fighting and there is a much greater chance she could get more seriously injured.

Is it possible to teach a dog to defend themselves without inflicting ANY damage to the other dog? If your dog does injure another dog while defending herself what would the reprecussions be (this is nothing to do with the breed of the dogs)

I think your upset now as your dog has been injured and I know exactly how you feel, my Springer was attacked on a walk the other night (he didn't fight back, just got free and ran and hid behind me) and I wanted to kill the person who had let their dog behave like that. I reckon it has set me back about 6 months with his socialisation skills but due to his size their is no way i'd want him defending himself. I was thrilled when he got free and ran back to me (thankfully he as he is a springer he's fast)

Sorry if I'm rambling a bit but I'm struggling to articulate myself clearly. The long and short of it is I think it would be better if your dog was able to escape and come back to you rather than engaging in a fight.

Hope your pup is ok

IvySlayer

Maybe fight is the wrong word, but maybe teach her how to bark/growl?

Irishchick

Your dog is in it right place. Its accepting its position as bottom of the pack, where it should be in a family home.

Teaching it to bark/growl will not do anything. Dogs communicate in many ways not just by barking.

This situation is best avoided. An aggressive dog is one thats badly trained and see's itself as the dominant one.

andreac

I wouldnt be teaching a dog to growl/fight back etc. They are animals and will sort themselves out.
Unfortunately you are going to meet aggressive dogs and to be honest, like another poster said, its prob best that your dog doesnt get too aggressive as well or you will have a big problem.

At the moment shes still a puppy and puppies dont know or want to fight with any dog and its best that she doesnt.

As she starts to mature and hormones kick in she will learn to stand up for herself naturally and you wont have to teach this but you shouldnt encourage your dog to defend itself or fight back.

tk123

Ah I hope she's ok OP. I think the best thing you can do now is keep an eye on her and make sure she doesn't get shy etc - this is what happened to our guy when a terrier snapped at him when he was a few months old. He got very very shy of other dogs but sending him to dog daycare helped build his confidence.

pokertalk

andreac wrote: »

I wouldnt be teaching a dog to growl/fight back etc. They are animals and will sort themselves out.
Unfortunately you are going to meet aggressive dogs and to be honest, like another poster said, its prob best that your dog doesnt get too aggressive as well or you will have a big problem.

At the moment shes still a puppy and puppies dont know or want to fight with any dog and its best that she doesnt.

As she starts to mature and hormones kick in she will learn to stand up for herself naturally and you wont have to teach this but you shouldnt encourage your dog to defend itself or fight back.

+1 the dog is still a pup and he could just be submissive which is far better then an aggressive dog cant really teach him to stand up for himself without making him agressive and this could carry over to his interaction with people.
hope he is ok

IvySlayer

Irishchick wrote: »

Your dog is in it right place. Its accepting its position as bottom of the pack, where it should be in a family home.

Teaching it to bark/growl will not do anything. Dogs communicate in many ways not just by barking.

This situation is best avoided. An aggressive dog is one thats badly trained and see's itself as the dominant one.

I think a dog is not in the right place if she just lays down and lets another dog bite her. Teaching a dog to growl does not necessarily mean it's aggressive.

Wolfe Tone

I taught my dog to bark and growl on command, its a nice trick.

pokertalk

IvySlayer wrote: »

I think a dog is not in the right place if she just lays down and lets another dog bite her. Teaching a dog to growl does not necessarily mean it's aggressive.

but how can you tell the dog to growl without being agrissive?im not a trainer but if the dog gets into a fight with another dog how can ya tell the dog to act hard without being hard if you know what i mean .usually if a dominant dog challenges a submissive dog and the submissive dog excepts his place then the altercation is over in a few seconds its. when two dominant or aggressive dogs get into a conflict then it can end badly until one sumbits

pokertalk

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

I taught my dog to bark and growl on command, its a nice trick.

cool .but if your dog got into a fight with another dog would he bluff bark? or do you recon it would be genuine?
good trick btw

Wolfe Tone

pokertalk wrote: »

cool .but if your dog got into a fight with another dog would he bluff bark? or do you recon it would be genuine?
good trick btw

She has only ever been in one fight and she is a very placid dog(golden retriever) but she fought back against the dog that attacked her(some terrier lol)

pokertalk

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

She has only ever been in one fight and she is a very placid dog(golden retriever) but she fought back against the dog that attacked her(some terrier lol)

yeah thats what i mean ya can teach the dog to bark on command.but when they get into a fight they wont act there reaction is quite natural

morganafay

I wouldn't try to teach a dog to defend itself, cos it's only asking for trouble I think. I know you don't want your dog getting hurt, but what if a little dog attacks yours and yours defends herself, and then you could get in trouble because of it.

My dogs are the same, they've been attacked and didn't fight back at all. But I'm glad they didn't, because if they defended themselves more they might get attacked more . . . like if they were acting more aggressive.

I think it's either because she's still young or you just have a very very nice natured dog. But if she's not aggressive or assertive, I wouldn't encourage her to be.

Though maybe you could teach her to do what my springer spaniel did, when another dog attacked him, he just sat on the other dog!

Howitzer

What you're looking for is dog bravery lessons -- nothing to do with defense. It's more a self esteem issue. Getting the dog to walk tall - proud and tail in the air etc. A professional dog trainer would have advice here for you. I know http://www.facebook.com/kingofpaws (Alex from dspca) would be able to advise - as I'm sure would other pro trainers.

onlyrocknroll

One thing to watch out for that I've noticed in my own dog.

Sometimes he's attacked by another dog, and I'm affectionate to him afterwards because I feel sorry for him.

I notice that over the next few days he becomes aggressive and is much more likely to initiate fights himself.

I think that this is because dogs don't really understand the moral distinction between being defending themselves and attacking other dogs. All my dog knew was that he fought, and then I seemed to reward that behaviour. I accidental gave positive reinforcement to negative behaviour.

This might sound a little fanciful but I've noticed a real strong pattern of this over the years. If he gets a chance (rarely because I'm careful about keeping him on a lead) he'll run quite a distance to attack the same dog that attacked him yesterday. :eek:

I bring this up because I think its a good caution against training dogs to be aggressive even in self defence. The dog (IMO) won't understand the distinction between defending itself and initiating fights. She'll just think that fighting is good.

Just wait for those hormones to kick in. Boxers aren't usually aggressive but they're no shrinking violets either, she'll be fine.

The Sweeper

You can train a dog to defend itself.

Dog fighting rings do it all of the time. It involves cruelty to harden the dog up, and as cited by poster onlyrocknroll above, you encourage aggression and praise the dog after a good show. He's dead right, it does result in more dog aggression - that's why they do it.

If your dog is fearful, work on improving his confidence. There are quite a few dog owners who will avoid dog parks and open public spaces where other people let their dogs off-lead for this very reason. Socialisation of dogs is important, but it's not so important that, if your dog is filled with fear in the presence of other dogs, you should persist with off-lead public spaces in an effort to improve that fear.

oldbridge

your dog will in time learn the way of the animal world and will know when to be aggresive to defend herself.for now though while she grows be careful with her when other dogs are around

scudzilla

Thanks for all the replies and suggestions, i guess as she's still a pup her self defence will only come wit age.

Took her up to Malahide again yesterday, was worried that after the incident she may have been less social towards other dogs but she was grand.

She had a great play wit some other dogs and it hasn't seem to have affected her that much which we're glad about.

arybvtcw0eolkf

If your dog does start to show signs of nervousness your more than welcome down to my place, or I'll come to the Castle and let it out and about with my two for a few hours.

They're both very soft & gentle and would have your dog at ease very quickly.

scudzilla

Zayne Numerous Rhino wrote: »

If your dog does start to show signs of nervousness your more than welcome down to my place, or I'll come to the Castle and let it out and about with my two for a few hours.

They're both very soft & gentle and would have your dog at ease very quickly.

I'd love that, Wife and i have both said on a few occasions we'd love to meet your guys, i think we had something sorted at one point but didn't your daughter get tonsilitis??

I'm not in work till Sunday night so any time's good for me

arybvtcw0eolkf

scudzilla wrote: »

I'd love that, Wife and i have both said on a few occasions we'd love to meet your guys, i think we had something sorted at one point but didn't your daughter get tonsilitis??

I'm not in work till Sunday night so any time's good for me

We'll try sort something out.

I'm tied up in work at the moment, then training for Wicklow Way race in December - long story short, I'm out of Judo training until the new year, so mad cap competitive me has joined a team to race over the Wicklow way!.. And I think I may be coaching at a Judo competition this Saturday, but either way we'll sort something.

User Friendly

scudzilla wrote: »

Just let me get this straight, i IN NO WAY condone dog fighting and am not looking for any dog fighting classes!!! Just wondering how she'll defend herself

Wouldnt matter imo if you did send you dog for "dog fighting classes",you can teach a dog to be vicious and you can teach a dog to be kind and gentle,but you cant teach a dog to have courage...... its bred into them or its not there at all.

IvySlayer wrote: »

Maybe fight is the wrong word, but maybe teach her how to bark/growl?

:eek:



apologies for the delay in responding,only saw the date of post just now.

goat2

i should think you are only going to make your dog an agressive pet if you teach her to fight back, i would not be in favour of that,

Roro4Brit

If you are doing your job right as a dog owner your dog should never ever have to be in a position to fight or defend itself from the attack of another dog.

Granted there are rare exceptions, it is your responsibilty to ensure your dog is safe from harm at any time.

I had a King Charles for 11 years and not a pug for 18 months and never once did I let harm come to them. In places where there are likely to be other dogs (and therefore threats) they stay on the leash where I can do the growling and barking at other dogs if needs be....

scudzilla

Roro4Brit wrote: »

If you are doing your job right as a dog owner your dog should never ever have to be in a position to fight or defend itself from the attack of another dog.

Granted there are rare exceptions, it is your responsibilty to ensure your dog is safe from harm at any time.

I had a King Charles for 11 years and not a pug for 18 months and never once did I let harm come to them. In places where there are likely to be other dogs (and therefore threats) they stay on the leash where I can do the growling and barking at other dogs if needs be....

Our dog was off the lead but only 25ft away from us, this guys dog was not, he was farting about in his car, not bothering what his dog was up to.

Am i doing my job as a dog owner correctly, i think i am, even though i let my dog run free as much as possible

Roro4Brit

Sorry upon reread I can see my post may appear antagonistic. I'm sure you love your baby to bits.

But in this case both dogs were off their leash and I can bet that if yours was on hers this would not have happened. You can't control other people and what they do with their dogs, but you can control your own.

pokertalk

scudzilla wrote: »

Our dog was off the lead but only 25ft away from us, this guys dog was not, he was farting about in his car, not bothering what his dog was up to.

Am i doing my job as a dog owner correctly, i think i am, even though i let my dog run free as much as possible

sure you could have a dog off the lead thinkig there are no other dogs around but sure you never know so its not your fault if another dog comes out of the blue. if your dog is somewhat aggressive then be extra vigilant but yours is not so having your dog off the lead if your dog responds well to recall is ok

IvySlayer

scudzilla wrote: »

Our dog was off the lead but only 25ft away from us, this guys dog was not, he was farting about in his car, not bothering what his dog was up to.

Am i doing my job as a dog owner correctly, i think i am, even though i let my dog run free as much as possible

You were doing the right thing. When my pup is off the lead, at least he's still under my control, if I tell him to come back, he will. Control. And he's never out of my sight.

The guy in the car, was neither watching his dog, nor did he have control.

onlyrocknroll

Roro4Brit wrote: »

If you are doing your job right as a dog owner your dog should never ever have to be in a position to fight or defend itself from the attack of another dog.

Granted there are rare exceptions, it is your responsibilty to ensure your dog is safe from harm at any time.

I had a King Charles for 11 years and not a pug for 18 months and never once did I let harm come to them. In places where there are likely to be other dogs (and therefore threats) they stay on the leash where I can do the growling and barking at other dogs if needs be....

That's rubbish. Dogs need to be walked. Even if you never allow them off the lead they can sometimes be attacked by other dogs. There is absolutely no way a owner can completely prevent their dog from getting into a fight.

Perhaps with smaller dogs like a King Charles and a Pug, the fact that they need less and shorter walks means that you can avoid fights altogether. But the OP has a Boxer and they need to walk a few miles each day. How is the OP to completely avoid all other dogs that might attack his one.

Originally Posted by scudzilla.
Am i doing my job as a dog owner correctly, i think i am, even though i let my dog run free as much as possible

I've owned dogs all my life and I think that you've given no indication that you've done anything wrong.

You certainly right to allow him/her to run around when you can, in that incident the other owner was behaving selfishly and stupidly.