Hospital Chaplain

mohawk

Hi guys

Long story short. My son decided to scare the sh1te out of us during the week and ended up in ICU in Temple st (he is home again all better ). So there I was in ICU scared out of my mind and along comes the chaplain. She is a nun and she made me so angry when she started on about praying for him to pull through :mad:. I felt like clocking her. It was an emotional time for us and someone coming along offering prayer was infuriating.

When you enter hospital they ask you what religion you and I said my son had no religion. why cant the nuns stick to calling around the the christians. In this day and age there are plenty of other religions in Ireland you can't have a nun going around to each and every patient. I am all for respecting peoples beliefs but once again in this country my beliefs are not respected.

Some might say that the chaplain offers a service that allows for the parents to talk but, a counsellor would be able to do the same.

What do you think guys should the chaplain be gotten rid off in favour of a counsellor or do you think the chaplain should remain?

Ickle Magoo

I have no issue with a chaplain who is "on call" as it were for those who request one. What I take issue with - and I may have mentioned it once or twice :pac: - is when religious representatives accost people in hospitals, sometimes despite being told they were neither required nor wanted and attempt to use sickness and vulnerability as an opportunity to try to push their own brand of woo-hoo.

branie

Did you politely ask her to stop praying?

Wolfe Tone

mohawk wrote: »

Hi guys

Long story short. My son decided to scare the sh1te out of us during the week and ended up in ICU in Temple st (he is home again all better ). So there I was in ICU scared out of my mind and along comes the chaplain. She is a nun and she made me so angry when she started on about praying for him to pull through :mad:. I felt like clocking her. It was an emotional time for us and someone coming along offering prayer was infuriating.

When you enter hospital they ask you what religion you and I said my son had no religion. why cant the nuns stick to calling around the the christians. In this day and age there are plenty of other religions in Ireland you can't have a nun going around to each and every patient. I am all for respecting peoples beliefs but once again in this country my beliefs are not respected.

Some might say that the chaplain offers a service that allows for the parents to talk but, a counsellor would be able to do the same.

What do you think guys should the chaplain be gotten rid off in favour of a counsellor or do you think the chaplain should remain?

For another person that would be deeply comforting.


She was only trying to help.

rainbow kirby

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

For another person that would be deeply comforting.


She was only trying to help.

When she has clearly indicated "No Religion" on admission, that should be enough of an indication that a chaplain is neither needed nor wanted.

Wolfe Tone

rainbow kirby wrote: »

When she has clearly indicated "No Religion" on admission, that should be enough of an indication that a chaplain is neither needed nor wanted.

Perhaps she was not told?

MagicMarker

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

For another person that would be deeply comforting.


She was only trying to help.

How was she trying to help?

Wolfe Tone

MagicMarker wrote: »

How was she trying to help?

By offering to pray.... I know my mother would be really comforted by that if I was in hospital.

MagicMarker

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

By offering to pray.... I know my mother would be really comforted by that if I was in hospital.

How is praying being helpful? She may as well have been playing the bongos.

Wolfe Tone

MagicMarker wrote: »

How is praying being helpful? She may as well have been playing the bongos.

Depends on your faith........




Placebo affect maybe? haha

mohawk

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

I have no issue with a chaplain who is "on call" as it were for those who request one. What I take issue with - and I may have mentioned it once or twice :pac: - is when religious representatives accost people in hospitals, sometimes despite being told they were neither required nor wanted and attempt to use sickness and vulnerability as an opportunity to try to push their own brand of woo-hoo.

I think the chaplain 'on call' idea has merit. I did not like the way she just appeared out of nowhere offering her prayers.

NothingMan

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Depends on your faith........

Which he had old the hospital was non existant.

I'm in the middle. Obviously the chaplain was trying to help and a lot of families appreciate that kind of "help". I would rather a chaplain checked the books or just offered to talk to you about it in any way, like a counsellor.

Would a chaplain be hired by a hospital or in place as part of the church?

If it's just the church I can't see a counsellor volunteering time and a hospital would probably not be willing to front the costs.

In that situation I reckon I am not sure what I'd do. If asked I'd tell her I wasn't religious/spiritual but if she just came and said a few words and said she'd pray I'd probably just say thank you and leave it at that.

I guess I'm on the fence about this one. On one hand, she wasn't necessarily doing harm, although, if you weren't atheist and of another religion, she may have been. But then, she was going against your beliefs. I'm not sure what I think tbh.

Now that you've brought it up though, when my daughter died following a car crash, a doctor came to tell us accompanied by a priest, they never asked us our religion, and I've never ever thought about that until this thread. But actually, it may have been completely the wrong thing to do. For us thankfully it was ok, but actually, it could be really disrespectful.

Interesting!

mohawk

Deleted User wrote: »

I guess I'm on the fence about this one. On one hand, she wasn't necessarily doing harm, although, if you weren't atheist and of another religion, she may have been. But then, she was going against your beliefs. I'm not sure what I think tbh.

Now that you've brought it up though, when my daughter died following a car crash, a doctor came to tell us accompanied by a priest, they never asked us our religion, and I've never ever thought about that until this thread. But actually, it may have been completely the wrong thing to do. For us thankfully it was ok, but actually, it could be really disrespectful.

Interesting!

I remember years ago when my uncle died in a car accident the parish priest was with the guard when she was told he had died. I thought nothing of it then because she is very catholic and lives in a rural area.

I wouldn't normally care when people offer prayers. My granny is always praying for me but, I just let her off as it makes her feel better. In this instance I was feeling very helpless and vunerable so I ended up feeling angry by what I saw as an intrusion.

I know the chaplain meant no 'harm' and in her head she was helping. I am not against chaplains because many people would feel better by the prayers.

I wonder if the chaplains approach people who they can observe to be not catholic such as a muslim family?

Zillah

Did you try saying "I'm sorry, we're not religious"?

Yes, it would be best if she had checked first, but it's a little unfair to get angry at her if you didn't even deign to decline her attentions.

mohawk

mohawk wrote: »

I wonder if the chaplains approach people who they can observe to be not catholic such as a muslim family?

I would have thought so, but then, i really don't know, maybe they actually feel that they have to help the person even more before they go to hell!!!!

BTW Hope your son is ok now

Zillah

To be honest, approaching a Muslim is way better than approaching an atheist. At least a Christian and a Muslim can agree that God can help and that praying to God is a good idea. They may disagree about the exact procedure but the principle is the same.

mardybumbum

I'm not sure if a nun would be privy to the admission notes.
She was probably just trying to be nice. I wouldn't get too upset over it.
Hope your son is doing well.

mohawk

mardybumbum wrote: »

I'm not sure if a nun would be privy to the admission notes.
She was probably just trying to be nice. I wouldn't get too upset over it.
Hope your son is doing well.

No she wouldn't they are private and confidental

She was probably just trying to be nice. I wouldn't get too upset over it.

Of course she felt like she was being nice I know she didn't mean anything by it. I won't be losing sleep over it as it doesn't bother me that much now. I merely point it out because it is an example of how far reaching religion is in Ireland. Also if a religious person was in a vunerable position and I came along and said there is no heaven so your wasting your time praying they would be very offended but an atheist must accept listening to peoples religious beliefs. Tolerance only goes one way.

Hope your son is doing well.

He is doing great the little monkey . Luckily toddlers don't sit around feeling sorry for themselves like adults do.

Improbable

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16569567

The gist of that paper is that there was almost no difference between the people who were not prayed for and those who were prayed for but did not know it. The people who were prayed for and knew it performed significantly worse.

Tim Robbins

Number one hope your son is ok.
Number two, if he is, I would suggest you write to the Hospital, write to the relevant consultant, write to the HSE, write to your TD, write to the appropriate Minister and of course write to the Church. If you still have enough energy write to the Times, and write to the Indo.

Explain to them, that you found this ordeal very stressful and that even though the Chaplain meant well that she only made things more stressful. Suggest that in future, the Chaplains should at least check admission records and only approach people when appropriate.

It's the only way things will change we all have to make a bit of constructive noise. Unfortunately, rants on boards - even very valid ones like your's - do nothing.

Shenshen

Zillah wrote: »

Did you try saying "I'm sorry, we're not religious"?

Yes, it would be best if she had checked first, but it's a little unfair to get angry at her if you didn't even deign to decline her attentions.

In retrospect probably yes.
But I can understand that when you are in a highly distressed and emotional situation, you might feel quite angry about an intrusion like this even after you declined.

I would agree that there certainly is no harm at all in having a chaplain at a hospital, for those who do want spiritual counseling. It would be petty and silly to deny them that, surely.
But by the same token, it's incredibly insensible of this particular chaplain to simply barge in and assume prayers would be welcomed. A little more sensitivity might be called for here.
"She was only trying to help" is not a good excuse at the best of times.

Shenshen

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Explain to them, that you found this ordeal very stressful and that even though the Chaplain meant well that she only made things more stressful. Suggest that in future, the Chaplains should at least check admission records and only approach people when appropriate.

Or just check if their presence is wanted/required before offering anything by ways of prayer or counseling.
I understand that if admission papers are confidential, there might be issues with the chaplain getting to see them.

robindch

mohawk wrote: »

along comes the chaplain [...] I felt like clocking her. It was an emotional time for us

Late last year, myself and the missus were up at Temple Street too with our little snowflake and something like the following happened with the registrar, me and a clearly upset child:

Receptionist: Name + DOB please
Me: (insert name + dob)
Receptionist: Religion?
Me: Sorry?
Receptionist: The child's religion.
Me: Look, she's a kid! She isn't aligned with any military, political or religious outfits!
Receptionist, looking like she was mounting a high horse: I'm afraid I have to put something.
Me: Why?
Receptionist: It's an administrative requirement. Will I put "no religion"?
Missus robindch: Yes, please do.

Couldn't believe it. Me with a sick child in my arms and some complete pillock demanding to know the exact nature of the sky fairy I was indoctrinating my kid with!

Still meaning to follow-up this with the data protection commissioners.

timetogetfit

You say your son is ok, which is great news.Perhaps her prayers worked

Improbable

timetogetfit wrote: »

You say your son is ok, which is great news.Perhaps her prayers worked

Perhaps they completely retarded his recovery. Perhaps without the prayer, he would have recovered faster.

Ickle Magoo

timetogetfit wrote: »

You say your son is ok, which is great news.Perhaps her prayers worked

What a lovely god that he'd listen to the prayers for a child with the luxuries of modern medicine in a western hospital but let thousands of children in the third world die in the time it took the child to get better. Why oh why wouldn't I want to pray to such a god?

Rabies

I had the same nearly 2yrs ago.
Hospital chaplin was doing his rounds. Came in and asked if I wanted to pray with him.
Said I was an atheist and didn't need prayer.
He left me alone.
Done

timetogetfit

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

What a lovely god that he'd listen to the prayers for a child with the luxuries of modern medicine in a western hospital but let thousands of children in the third world die in the time it took the child to get better. Why oh why wouldn't I want to pray to such a god?

Its the price we pay for freewill

Improbable

timetogetfit wrote: »

Its the price we pay for freewill

"You must worship me or you're going to hell"

Yeah, nice free will right there...

Ickle Magoo

timetogetfit wrote: »

Its the price we pay for freewill

Free will to die, how does that work?

It's just amazing how many things attributed to prayer also have correlation to wealth, hospital resources and staff proficiency...free will, pffffft! :pac:

timetogetfit

Improbable wrote: »

"You must worship me or you're going to hell"

Yeah, nice free will right there...

where does it say that

Improbable

John 3:16 (King James Version)

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

timetogetfit

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Free will to die, how does that work?

It's just amazing how many things attributed to prayer also have correlation to wealth, hospital resources and staff proficiency...free will, pffffft! :pac:

Well everyone on the planet has free will and the price of that are consequences to other people,that means we are subjected to the consequences of how others use this free will, the cause of poverty in the 3rd world has to do with greed and power hungry human beings so in essence GOD can't interfer because in doing so he takes breaks this promise

MagicMarker

If prayer works then why not pray for everyone from the comfort of your chaplains office, rather than walk around and praying for each individual person?

timetogetfit

Improbable wrote: »

John 3:16 (King James Version)

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

No mention of hell there im afraid

Shenshen

timetogetfit wrote: »

Well everyone on the planet has free will and the price of that are consequences to other people,that means we are subjected to the consequences of how others use this free will, the cause of poverty in the 3rd world has to do with greed and power hungry human beings so in essence GOD can't interfer because in doing so he takes breaks this promise

Preaching THAT in a thread where atheists are asking not to be prayed at/for...
Sad. Really sad.

Shenshen

MagicMarker wrote: »

If prayer works then why not pray for everyone from the comfort of your chaplains office, rather than walk around and praying for each individual person?

Because then people would not KNOW that they're being prayed for, and according to studies, that would increase their chances and decrease the healing time... you can't go around doing that!!!

timetogetfit

timetogetfit wrote: »

Its the price we pay for freewill

so praying for this child may have saved them and praying for a third world country child may not have because... free will

ok :rolleyes:

Improbable

timetogetfit wrote: »

No mention of hell there im afraid

Johannine literature often replaces "go to hell" with "perish" and other nicer euphemisms.

Ickle Magoo

timetogetfit wrote: »

Well everyone on the planet has free will and the price of that are consequences to other people,that means we are subjected to the consequences of how others use this free will, the cause of poverty in the 3rd world has to do with greed and power hungry human beings so in essence GOD can't interfer because in doing so he takes breaks this promise

I'm thinking the A&A forum is the wrong place to try to convince people "god" anything for starters. Secondly, you are saying praying doesn't work because we have free will but just a few posts earlier that the prayer could have worked for Mohawks child? Which is it? I'm not sure you realise how little sense that makes even ignoring the claims of higher authority.

Improbable

Improbable wrote: »

Johannine literature often replaces "go to hell" with "perish" and other nicer euphemisms.

I've had enough of you, perish! :pac:

Improbable

bluewolf wrote: »

I've had enough of you, perish! :pac:

If there were such a place, I most certainly would "perish", have no fear. But since I don't believe in imaginary friends in the sky, I think I'm safe. And a merry "I hope you perish" to you too. *hugs*

Dades

Let's NOT go down the "free will" route here - folks.

Maybe for once we'll keep a thread online. This one is about Hospital Chaplains, in case anyone's forgotten.

TIA!

Zillah

robindch wrote: »

Late last year, myself and the missus were up at Temple Street too with our little snowflake and something like the following happened with the registrar, me and a clearly upset child:

Receptionist: Name + DOB please
Me: (insert name + dob)
Receptionist: Religion?
Me: Sorry?
Receptionist: The child's religion.
Me: Look, she's a kid! She isn't aligned with any military, political or religious outfits!
Receptionist, looking like she was mounting a high horse: I'm afraid I have to put something.
Me: Why?
Receptionist: It's an administrative requirement. Will I put "no religion"?
Missus robindch: Yes, please do.

Couldn't believe it. Me with a sick child in my arms and some complete pillock demanding to know the exact nature of the sky fairy I was indoctrinating my kid with!

Still meaning to follow-up this with the data protection commissioners.

No, sorry, you're completely in the wrong here. You should have just said "We're not religious" or "no religion" to her first question rather than launching into how labelling children with religion is an unfair practice. You'd think you'd have other things on your mind.

And the reason they need to ask religion is because it matters in case there are chaplains (Catholic or Protestant), and for funeral arrangements. You think it's annoying being pestered with questions when you're checking in? Imagine how you'd feel if they starting asking after someone had died.

AudreyHepburn

mohawk wrote: »

Hi guys

Long story short. My son decided to scare the sh1te out of us during the week and ended up in ICU in Temple st (he is home again all better ). So there I was in ICU scared out of my mind and along comes the chaplain. She is a nun and she made me so angry when she started on about praying for him to pull through :mad:. I felt like clocking her. It was an emotional time for us and someone coming along offering prayer was infuriating.

When you enter hospital they ask you what religion you and I said my son had no religion. why cant the nuns stick to calling around the the christians. In this day and age there are plenty of other religions in Ireland you can't have a nun going around to each and every patient. I am all for respecting peoples beliefs but once again in this country my beliefs are not respected.

Some might say that the chaplain offers a service that allows for the parents to talk but, a counsellor would be able to do the same.

What do you think guys should the chaplain be gotten rid off in favour of a counsellor or do you think the chaplain should remain?

Now I do realise you were probably upset and emotional but in all fairness the Nun was only trying to help your little boy and offer you some comfort. She wasn't trying to convert or indoctrinate you or your son.

I really don't think there is any need for the big rant, it wasn't like it was life threatening to your boy or like she was trying to upset you further. Just the opposite I think you'll find.

I would have no problem with the chaplain personally. If you don't want to be prayed for you have only to say so and I am sure you would be left alone.

I'm sorry your son was so sick btw and I'm glad he's alright now!

AudreyHepburn

Zillah wrote: »

No, sorry, you're completely in the wrong here. You should have just said "We're not religious" or "no religion" to her first question rather than launching into how labelling children with religion is an unfair practice. You'd think you'd have other things on your mind.

And the reason they need to ask religion is because it matters in case there are chaplains (Catholic or Protestant), and for funeral arrangements. You think it's annoying being pestered with questions when you're checking in? Imagine how you'd feel if they starting asking after someone had died.

Zillah, it's nice to agree with one of your posts for once

Shenshen

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Now I do realise you were probably upset and emotional but in all fairness the Nun was only trying to help your little boy and offer you some comfort. She wasn't trying to convert or indoctrinate you or your son.

I really don't think there is any need for the big rant, it wasn't like it was life threatening to your boy or like she was trying to upset you further. Just the opposite I think you'll find.

I would have no problem with the chaplain personally. If you don't want to be prayed for you have only to say so and I am sure you would be left alone.

I think the thing that got him was not that she was trying to help, but that she assumed this kind of help would be welcomed, without actually bothering to ask first.

It's the difference between your relatives calling you to ask if they can drop over, and them standing at the door with the overnight bags.

c_man

Mohawk glad to hear your son is alright.

Sounds like the Nun should have been a bit more tactful, and maybe even consult the admission status of religion! Still I imagine I would just have politely declined the whole thing.

I do hate the way certain religious types go about their business in hospitals. Anyone who's spent any time in hospital should know what I mean, the communion givers drove me nuts.

AudreyHepburn

Shenshen wrote: »

I think the thing that got him was not that she was trying to help, but that she assumed this kind of help would be welcomed, without actually bothering to ask first.

It's the difference between your relatives calling you to ask if they can drop over, and them standing at the door with the overnight bags.

Ok but again it wasn't done to insult or aggravate anyone or to try to push the Nun's beliefs or ideals on anyone who didn't want them.

It was done out of a desire to help and comfort nothing more.

Rev Hellfire

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Zillah, it's nice to agree with one of your posts for once

I'm starting to think their account has been hijacked !