pizza dough

greenbicycle

I have perfected making pizza dough with the following ingrediants

600g white flour
300ml water
sachet of yeast
desertspoon of olive oil

all mixed up, kneaded,allow to raise and then roll out into pizza bases.

this works perfect every time.

now,im a concious that i am using white flour and would love to try make it healthier with wholemeal flour but how do you thing this would work out? would it be very coarse? would it work as well as the white version? would i need to do something different (although i have perfeced he white version i would love f it was the same)

im guessing it won be as tasty either, like all things white generally tastes better than brown :-(

the beer revolu

My dough has 4:1 strong white flour to buckwheat
Very tasty

huskerdu

Personally, I think that brown piza base is very dissappointing, even though
I much prefer wholemeal bread to white bread.
But you should give it a go and see if you like it.

If you use only wholewheat flour, it won't rise much.
Experiment with a mixture of wholewheat flour and STRONG white four.
You need the extra gluten in the flour to help the wholewheat flour rise.

greenbicycle

right, so i need to go for a mix between wholewheat and white flour...

it probably wont rise at all with just wholewheat on its own will it...

I need a day with lots off spare time to test this!

brianthebard

huskerdu wrote: »

Personally, I think that brown piza base is very dissappointing, even though
I much prefer wholemeal bread to white bread.
But you should give it a go and see if you like it.

If you use only wholewheat flour, it won't rise much.

This could be used to your advantage if you like thin crusts, rolling it thinner than usual before hand to try and get a nice thin crispy base. Having less base would also technically make it healthier (or at least lower calorie/carbs) which was might help the op.

jpb1974

600g white flour
300ml water
sachet of yeast
desertspoon of olive oil

I use almost the exact same recipe... just ensuring that I use a good quality 'strong' white flour such as Odlums (as recommended to me by an Italian living in Ireland).

Rolled thin it cooks really well and has a lovely crispiness to it.

rubadub

Tesco now do a pizza base packet, I think you just add water. Dried yeast is surprisingly expensive for what it is, like you can get a baked loaf very cheap but the yeast is a lot.

I see the normal stuff you see mcdougalls is €2.66 for 8x7g (56g) sachets, 33c each, I see online that tesco do their own dried yeast now 56g for 99c, not sure if it is sachets.

Their pizza base mix is 79c with yeast already in it.

Truley

greenbicycle wrote: »

now,im a concious that i am using white flour and would love to try make it healthier with wholemeal flour but how do you thing this would work out? would it be very coarse? would it work as well as the white version? would i need to do something different (although i have perfeced he white version i would love f it was the same)

im guessing it won be as tasty either, like all things white generally tastes better than brown :-(

How bout trying white spelt flour? It would be healthier but still have the nice tast of white flour.

As far as I know you have to mix the water very quickly with spelt as it has less gluten (or something :P.) But other than that it's just the same as regular wheat.

Hedgecutter

I have changed the measurements of my recipe lately and my dough is not great.

My old recipe was 250g White flour, 150ml of milk water mix, yeast and a tsp of sugar. Worked great.

I have tried to increase the measurements but have no success.

Dough is turning hard to Knead and heavy. I increased the mixture to 300g flour,170ml milk water mix. Salt, yeast and sugar.

any ideas

super_furry

I'd always and a handful of semolina too, and then when rolling out the dough, do it in semolina again rather than flour.

Gloomtastic!

super_furry wrote: »

I'd always and a handful of semolina too, and then when rolling out the dough, do it in semolina again rather than flour.

I follow Jamie's recipe which also recommends using semolina. Tesco have both the Tipo flour and semolina, sometimes both are in the baking section but otherwise look in deserts for the semolina. Makes for a nice crispy base.
http://m.jamieoliver.com/recipes/pizza-recipes/pizza-dough

Recommended topping - Salmon and dill.

mkdon05

For best results, you really need to be using Tipo or 'OO' flour. Its quite hard to get but Fallon and Byrne in town do it.

Also for best result when you are finished kneading your dough, you should put it in a bowl and cover it with cling film and then place it in the fridge for 1 - 4 days. This is called slow fermenting and gives the crust a better taste and texture. *(when adding the water to the flour make sure it is not heated at all)

super_furry

mkdon05 wrote: »

For best results, you really need to be using Tipo or 'OO' flour. Its quite hard to get but Fallon and Byrne in town do it.

Isn't Odlam's 'strong' flour the same?

Faith

super_furry wrote: »

Isn't Odlam's 'strong' flour the same?

Not at all, AFAIK.

mkdon05

super_furry wrote: »

mkdon05 wrote: »

For best results, you really need to be using Tipo or 'OO' flour. Its quite hard to get but Fallon and Byrne in town do it.

Isn't Odlam's 'strong' flour the same?

The double o flour is a much finer ground flour. I mean strong flour will work but to get that Italian style pizza, it wouldn't be the same.

super_furry

Hmm didn't realise that at all. Must try to get some for pizza.

ven0m

This is how I make my dough - I like the Roma Tipo 0 or the Hovis Strong flour that Tesco now carry:

Ingredients:
400gm Strong White Type 0 Flour (I use the Roma or the Hovis ones – the Odlums one has additives that I think make the dough far too chewy)
100gm Semolina
1.5tsp Kosher/Sea Salt (as long as it’s not table salt – this is purely a flavour thing with me, given table salt is artificially made)
1.5tsp caster sugar
7gm of fast acting/dried yeast (usually these are in 7g sachets)
330ml of tepid water (not boiling)
2tbsp Grapeseed Oil or Rapeseed Oil (I avoid Olive Oil here because the levels of purity due to pressing is really hard to gauge from brand to brand - found rapeseed & grapeseed less problematic personally)

Method:
1. Sieve the salt, semolina & flour together
2. Mix the water & sugar together mix til disolved, then add the yeast, stir gently & leave the yeast to froth & grow in an open environment (not outdoors - it’ll get to an out of control beery froth & the place will smell like a brewery – and hopefully pick up some additional natural yeasts in the air too which is awesome!)
3. Make a well in the middle of the flour/semolina/salt mix, pour in the 2tbsp of oil
4. Add the yeast mix, making sure to get ALL of the froth in the container (that’s goodness right there)
5. Bring dough together
6. Knead dough WITHOUT using additional flour – if you need to (but only if the day is especially humid) until the dough gets to at least 27.5*C (the dough reaching this temperature is crucial) until smooth, & starts to become elastic
7. Once the dough is at 27.5*C, turn into a ball, using the tucking under technique
8. Lightly oil a bowl, & the top of the dough ball
9. Cover bowl in Clingfilm, & place in a warm, dark, dry place until it’s doubled, (or for as long as you can – I tend to let mine go while I’m in work for 8 hours +) to prove
10. Remove cling film after first prove is complete, knock out the air, & turn out onto a surface, & again knead til it gets back to 27.5*, & prove again for another doubling (30 mins or so should see you well for this one – I’ve been known to let it go another hour)
11. Remove from 2nd prove, knock out the air, roll it out as you require (not too harshly – you want to keep air in the dough to get the base fluffy in the middle) – you can get 2x 14” pizzas from this (for an medium crust), or a kick ass 16” thick crust

Anthonyk2010

ven0m wrote: »

This is how I make my dough - I like the Roma Tipo 0 or the Hovis Strong flour that Tesco now carry:

Ingredients:
400gm Strong White Type 0 Flour (I use the Roma or the Hovis ones – the Odlums one has additives that I think make the dough far too chewy)
100gm Semolina
1.5tsp Kosher/Sea Salt (as long as it’s not table salt – this is purely a flavour thing with me, given table salt is artificially made)
1.5tsp caster sugar
7gm of fast acting/dried yeast (usually these are in 7g sachets)
330ml of tepid water (not boiling)
2tbsp Grapeseed Oil or Rapeseed Oil (I avoid Olive Oil here because the levels of purity due to pressing is really hard to gauge from brand to brand - found rapeseed & grapeseed less problematic personally)

Method:
1. Sieve the salt, semolina & flour together
2. Mix the water & sugar together mix til disolved, then add the yeast, stir gently & leave the yeast to froth & grow in an open environment (not outdoors - it’ll get to an out of control beery froth & the place will smell like a brewery – and hopefully pick up some additional natural yeasts in the air too which is awesome!)
3. Make a well in the middle of the flour/semolina/salt mix, pour in the 2tbsp of oil
4. Add the yeast mix, making sure to get ALL of the froth in the container (that’s goodness right there)
5. Bring dough together
6. Knead dough WITHOUT using additional flour – if you need to (but only if the day is especially humid) until the dough gets to at least 27.5*C (the dough reaching this temperature is crucial) until smooth, & starts to become elastic
7. Once the dough is at 27.5*C, turn into a ball, using the tucking under technique
8. Lightly oil a bowl, & the top of the dough ball
9. Cover bowl in Clingfilm, & place in a warm, dark, dry place until it’s doubled, (or for as long as you can – I tend to let mine go while I’m in work for 8 hours +) to prove
10. Remove cling film after first prove is complete, knock out the air, & turn out onto a surface, & again knead til it gets back to 27.5*, & prove again for another doubling (30 mins or so should see you well for this one – I’ve been known to let it go another hour)
11. Remove from 2nd prove, knock out the air, roll it out as you require (not too harshly – you want to keep air in the dough to get the base fluffy in the middle) – you can get 2x 14” pizzas from this (for an medium crust), or a kick ass 16” thick crust

Thanks for that venom, when roll the dough I find it stays flat and thin.
Sometimes it does not cook properly on the top where the sauce is. I'm new to making dough so every bit of info helps.

O ya why semolina?

ven0m

Semolina for color, flavor & texture - makes it less bready, more pizza-y (if that makes sense)

Hedgecutter

What would happen if you did not Knead the dough.

Would it make much of a difference.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Anthonyk2010 wrote: »

Thanks for that venom, when roll the dough I find it stays flat and thin.
Sometimes it does not cook properly on the top where the sauce is. I'm new to making dough so every bit of info helps.

O ya why semolina?

Bit late here but I was watching Simply Italian on 4OD today and she was making pasta and she recommended using semolina if you're leaving your pasta to dry for a while because it does the same job as flour to stop it sticking to the tray, but it won't get into the pasta or effect it when you put it in water to cook it.
I assume it's the same with pizza, i.e. if you're rolling it out on flour it's getting into your dough and will change the consistency of it. The semolina won't mix with the dough in that way so it stops it from drying out which can happen if you use too much flour.

She also uses that 00 flour for her pasta, must try and track some down as I'm having no luck with my pizza's at all.

hardCopy

Tesco sell Roma branded Tipo 00 for, their own brand yeast works just as well as the McDougall's and comes in the same sized sachets.

The Roma flour has a pizza base recipe on the back, works well but I would add extra salt next time.

I haven't tried the semolina but have seen it in pizza shops, Apache I think.

I try to spread the sauce very thin, especially in the middle to avoid soggy pizza, make sure the toppings are well drained too if using balled mozzarella, pineapple, deli ham etc.

A pizza stone makes for a great crispy base, pre-heat it and use a rolling pin to lay the base on it.

Buon appetito!

Dizzyblonde

Hedgecutter wrote: »

What would happen if you did not Knead the dough.

Would it make much of a difference.

It would make all the difference. You really do have to knead the dough very well.

pwurple

Hedgecutter wrote: »

What would happen if you did not Knead the dough.

Would it make much of a difference.

What happens if you don't knead it enough, is it breaks up easily. So when you go to roll it or stretch it, it tears and gets little holes it in. Sauce doesn't go on it properly then. Just doesn't work right.

On things to add to pizza dough, mine is very plain... grade 0 flour, yeast, salt, water. I swap 20% of the flour weight for oats. Gives a nice flavour, not sure if it's any better for us?

nice1franko

I'd love to try this one:

http://crepesofwrath.net/2011/10/19/ny-style-sourdough-pizza/

but haven't got round to trying to getting a sourdough starter and all that yet.

Swiper the fox

I've seen it mentioned already above but in case ye missed it Roma do a 00 flour now which is available in most large supermarkets, I've been using it a bit lately and it works very well for pizza bases if you are looking for something small to make a positive difference, like with all bread we'll probably tinker till its at our liking, olive oil is also essential although other similar oils might do the trick also,
Besides that, cheap/crappy mozzarella is the only other thing I have to have(+ some nice cheeses also of course)

stmol32

I tried a few different pizza dough recipes with mixed results.
I found I had the best results when I actualy got a pizza tray, round tray with the holes in the bottom.

The air holes isvwhat made all the difference I found.

sham69

Have been using a "00" flour for the past few weeks.
The difference is amazing.
I got a 10kg bag from a friend who delivers it to the italian chippers.
The only issue I was having was getting the rolled dough to the hot pizza stone.
I finally figured out that if I heat the stone for 5 mins, then put the empty base on it, bake it for a couple of minutes, take it out, put the ingredients on it and then bake for 10 mins or so its near perfect.
Still not as cripsy on the bottom as I would like but damn tasty nonetheless.
I think it was Jamie olivers recipe I used which is just 00 flour, semolina (which I don't have so don't use), salt, castor sugar and yeast mixed with water.
Works well I have to say but I was expecting olive oil in the recipse which it doesnt have.
Have been eating pizza's non stop for past 3 weeks or so.
Not sick of them at all , make them nice and thin and make lots of different varities, keeps everyone happy.
The kids love making them and eating them

Gloomtastic!

sham69 wrote: »

Have been using a "00" flour for the past few weeks.
The difference is amazing.
I got a 10kg bag from a friend who delivers it to the italian chippers.
The only issue I was having was getting the rolled dough to the hot pizza stone.
I finally figured out that if I heat the stone for 5 mins, then put the empty base on it, bake it for a couple of minutes, take it out, put the ingredients on it and then bake for 10 mins or so its near perfect.
Still not as cripsy on the bottom as I would like but damn tasty nonetheless.
I think it was Jamie olivers recipe I used which is just 00 flour, semolina (which I don't have so don't use), salt, castor sugar and yeast mixed with water.
Works well I have to say but I was expecting olive oil in the recipse which it doesnt have.
Have been eating pizza's non stop for past 3 weeks or so.
Not sick of them at all , make them nice and thin and make lots of different varities, keeps everyone happy.
The kids love making them and eating them

You need a pizza peel

http://www.gilmartins.com/product-catalogue.html?page=shop.browse&category_id=53

It's on my wish list!

foodaholic

sham69 wrote: »

I finally figured out that if I heat the stone for 5 mins, then put the empty base on it, bake it for a couple of minutes, take it out, put the ingredients on it and then bake for 10 mins or so its near perfect.

Thats a great tip

sham69

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

You need a pizza peel

http://www.gilmartins.com/product-catalogue.html?page=shop.browse&category_id=53

It's on my wish list!

Don't know if that would solve my problem?
So do you make the pizza on the metal, then slide it on to the pizza stone?
My problem is getting it to slide..
Or does the metal stay in the oven and the handle detach?
I know I have seen these in pizza restaurants but I just realised I don't know how they work...

Thats a great tip

Thanks, took a few disasters to figure it out.
I'm sure other people have better ideas but it works for me at the moment.
My 5 yr old son is having his friends around for a pizza party today, what have I started...

Dizzyblonde

I sprinkle semolina onto a piece of baking parchment, then put the pizza base onto it. Then after I add all the toppings, I slide the pizza onto the stone.

Mind you, I recently decided that this was all too much trouble so I make my pizza in a tin, then put the tin onto a hot hob ring to crisp the base if it's a bit soft.

the beer revolu

The incredibly frustrating job of getting the pizza onto the hot stone has put me off making pizza. I have tried semolina and I use a very thin baking sheet as a peel . My latest idea which I've yet to try out is to put the pizza on a pizza tray (the one with holes in) and put the tray on the stone. After a couple of minutes it should be easy to transfer the pizza directly onto the stone.

I will report back!;)

Mr Simpson

Try an aluminium pizza screen, its what I use (I make about 60 pizzas a day). Stretch the dough out, put it on the pizza screen. Top it, and place it (still on the screen) onto the hot stone.

Alleviates the need to try and use a peel.

sham69

mmcn90 wrote: »

Try an aluminium pizza screen, its what I use (I make about 60 pizzas a day). Stretch the dough out, put it on the pizza screen. Top it, and place it (still on the screen) onto the hot stone.

Alleviates the need to try and use a peel.

I was looking at the screens, sounds like a good idea.
I might invest, they seem cheap enough aswell.
Thanks for the tip.

Bodie Broadus

heres a real easy way to cook pizza without the stone, i just do this then put the pan in the oven or take it out and onto an upside down baking tray

Thud

i use rice flour on my peel (i use tesco non stick cookie tray as a peel it only has a lip on one side), rice flour doens't burn as easily as normal flower.
The key is to have your toppings ready so that the dough/base isn't on the peel too long, if any moisture gets between the base and the tray it won't slide off easily onto the stone. Shape it on worktop and only transfer to peel once it's the right size.

Give your peel or tray a shake before you open the oven door this will show you if your pizza is stuck or not, if it is you can either try to unstick the stuck bit and get some more rice flour underneath it or worst case scenario put cookie tray into oven for first minute or two and then transfer pie to the stone.

fred funk }{

I use a metal pizza tray first and give the pizza a few minutes in the oven then I slide it staight onto the pizza stone to finish cooking. Works perfect every time.

Toto Wolfcastle

I have all my toppings ready to go, take the stone out of the oven, throw the toppings on and put it back in. It takes less than a minute and the pizza is perfect.

cannyfradock

I am also a Pizza enthusiasts and have made a peel out of an old baking tin and a spatula but if you make a lot of pizza's it's worth investing in a short handled pizza peel and a pizza paddle.

The pizza is made on the pizza paddle with a little semolina or rye flour sprinkled on the paddle to ease the pizza off. It's then taken off the paddle using a short handled pizza peel to transfer in and out of the oven. They are not that expensive to buy. this peel is less than £10 (euro's?) on line



....and this paddle is £14...



That's not that much expense if you like making your own pizza's often. You can also make your own paddle if you are a decent D.I.Yer. Here's a link to making your own paddles.

http://ukwoodfiredovenforum.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=justcooking&thread=441&page=1

Happy bakin....

Terry

sham69

update...

Had a party on Sunday night and cooked around 20 pizza's
Missus got some pizza tray's in aldi or lidl.
Metal tray with holes in it.
Worked a treat and made the pizza's nice and crispy (that and rolling them thinner).
Slide nicely off aswell.
I think they were only 3.99 or something.
Very happy with my results now.
Had pizza and beer for breakfast yesterday, how healthy

Dizzyblonde

fred funk }{ wrote: »

I use a metal pizza tray first and give the pizza a few minutes in the oven then I slide it staight onto the pizza stone to finish cooking. Works perfect every time.

I tried this last time and it worked a treat - that's how I'll be cooking mine in future

donalh087

A couple of tips.

1. If your uncooked pizza gets stuck to the table of peel simply lift one corner and blow firmly underneath. The pizza lifts off beautifully. The peel is for transporting only, the pizza should not be made on the peel - it is pretty much guaranteed to stick.

2. The 'leading edge', the first inch of your peel, should be floured and you will have no problem.

3. Once you have found Caputo blue flour you will never go back. The protein/gluten is so strong you can roll it thin enough to virtually see through. It is stronger even than 00.

4. I know it is unusual but I let the dough rise for 48 hours in the fridge. The long slow rise gives superb texture, crispy on the base and yet quite a chewy rim (so to speak). IMHO it is as good as using a Biga.

5. I stopped using sugar in my recipe as I found it burned at too low a temperature. Dry yeast doesn't need it.

Thud

Did you find Caputo in Ireland or order online?

donalh087

I buy Caputo from a company called Italicatessen in Wicklow. Dont know if they do retail Caputo but a 25KG sack is only about E25.

Gloomtastic!

donalh087 wrote: »

I buy Caputo from a company called Italicatessen in Wicklow. Dont know if they do retail Caputo but a 25KG sack is only about E25.

25kg sack! It'll never fit in the baking cupboard. :eek:

Thanks for the heads up though, will be keeping an eye out for it.

Thud

would take me a while to get through 25kgs....

pwurple

We make other breads too, could it be used in them?

sham69

cannyfradock wrote: »

I am also a Pizza enthusiasts and have made a peel out of an old baking tin and a spatula but if you make a lot of pizza's it's worth investing in a short handled pizza peel and a pizza paddle.

The pizza is made on the pizza paddle with a little semolina or rye flour sprinkled on the paddle to ease the pizza off. It's then taken off the paddle using a short handled pizza peel to transfer in and out of the oven. They are not that expensive to buy. this peel is less than £10 (euro's?) on line



....and this paddle is £14...



That's not that much expense if you like making your own pizza's often. You can also make your own paddle if you are a decent D.I.Yer. Here's a link to making your own paddles.

http://ukwoodfiredovenforum.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=justcooking&thread=441&page=1

Happy bakin....

Terry

Sorry a bit slow.
Just had a look at your wood fired oven, wow...
I would love to try something like that but I am not that great with my hands..
Computers yeah but building anything no...
Really looks great.

sham69

Weird.
Have been making the pizza's for the past month with no issues.
I must have made about 50-60.
On Saturday I tried to make a batch with the usual ingredients.
Dough didnt really come together the way it normally does.
It was crumbly and not smooth.
I got it as smooth as I could and left it to rise...
It didnt...
It stayed heavy and crumbly not the usual light and airy.
Rolled it out anyway and made it and it wasnt that bad.
Anyone any ideas why the change?
Yeast seemed fine (bubbly), used castor sugar in it as I normally do, water not too hot.

Really confused.

donalh087

Sound like it was a bit dry really. Depending on the weather flour can vary quite a lot. If it was a crumbly dough there really is only one answer!