Garda "Targetting" Boy Racers

PCPhoto

When will they realise that its a combination different factors which cause a crash.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/gardai-target-carcrazy-boy-racers-in-attempt-to-save-young-motorists-lives-2343677.html

Gardai target car-crazy boy racers in attempt to save young motorists' lives


By MAEVE SHEEHAN
Sunday September 19 2010
So-called 'Boy Racers' are to be targeted by gardai as the latest statistics on deaths on Irish roads show that young men remain more likely to die in traffic accidents than any other group.

More than half of 150 people who died on the roads so far this year were aged between 16 and 30, and three in four of those are males.

While road deaths are falling overall, the alarming statistics have led to a new intelligence-gathering initiative targeting boy racers.

John Twomey, who became assistant commissioner in charge of the Garda National Traffic Bureau last month, said the aim is to deter young men from speeding.

The initiative is already under way in counties Donegal and Tipperary, which have seen high levels of accidents from reckless driving.

"More than 50 per cent of our road deaths are between the ages of 16 and 30," he said. "If you look at the statistics, they are frightening and they should be of concern to everyone in the wider community.

"This isn't just about the gardai, it's about family, community, friends. We need to get to the stage where any kind of inappropriate road use, inappropriate speed, is socially unacceptable."

Statistics can tell a lot about road traffic accidents, according to Mr Twomey, including the fact that so far this year, 54 per cent of accidents happen between 6pm and midnight and mostly on roads with 50 to 80 km-an-hour speed limits, where 88 per cent of garda traffic enforcement is concentrated.

Overall the number of road deaths fell to its lowest level on record last year at 239 and the trend continues.

The figure of 150 people who died on Irish roads so far this year is down 20 from the same period last year.

Despite this, eight men -- including seven young male friends -- died on the Inishowen Peninsula in Donegal in one of the worst road accidents in the country's history in July. The driver of one of the cars, a young man in his 20s, was the only survivor.

In another horrific multiple accident last month, four teenagers died when their car crashed after 7am as they returned from a party. In both cases speed is believed to have played a significant role.

The latest initiative is modelled on an operation Mr Twomey was previously involved in while a chief superintendent in west Dublin. Groups of young men used to congregate around a particular car park a couple of nights a week, trying out various manouvres in their cars. In response, gardai surrounded the drivers one night, backed up by a garda helicopter and patrol cars, checking the insurance, tax and potential breaches of the road traffic regulations.

"The first couple of nights we surrounded the group, went in and examined the cars. A lot of the cars were fine. We ran that over a period of three to four months and eventually we got to know them quite well. We got to develop a relationship with them. Eventually they just stopped coming out there," he said.

The model has been expanded to Donegal, which has among the highest road deaths records in Ireland, and in Tipperary, where gangs of boy racers have recently been posting video clips of their reckless motoring antics on YouTube.

- MAEVE SHEEHAN

Sunday Independent

why do the government/gardai/insurance companies "twist" statistics to suit themselves ... more than 50% of drivers involved in fatal accidents were between 16-30 and 75% of them were male .... why not break it into a more realistic statistic ?
How many were aged between 16-18 (when you mainly need a drivers licence as an ID or to work on a farm) ....
How many aged 18-22 when most people use a car to goto college/work and will be actual "learners"
how many aged between 22-30 when people are mainly using the car for everyday usage, going to work, college, bringing kids to creche etc

I'm not in any way interested in cars (I drive a Ford Fiesta Van....with wind up windows, the only modification from original condition is I changed from tape deck to CD player)
but my point is they "create" or "twist" statistics to clamp down on specific drivers so they can claim they are doing something about the deaths on our roads.

In my opinion we need to look at how we teach driving, we need to change how people get their qualification and limit their access to vehicles, the whole process should be a 2-3year gradual process (anyone breaking the law during this period and caught is instantly banned for 5yrs - and if caught again - jailed for 6months, 12months...2yrs) .... drivers need to learn all about cars and learn how to drive safely - we also need to provide a proper public transport system for those in training to be a driver.

aarrgghh I could go on and on ... my point is they throw statistics out in order to target "boy-racers" which isn't fair - if they want to stop road deaths in this country they need to look at the overall picture instead of one piece of the jigsaw.

bbability

Yeah it seems alot of the stats collected can be a bit on the cloudy side.

They've made changes to the driving test and its long overdue. That change may take a while to reflect on statistics.

I wonder how many people over 60 caused serious accidents this year? If it was one or on hundred they should collect stats for that also.

How many people over 60 sat a driving test?

gerrycollins

i think they are targetting the issue piece by piece. firstly random breath testing very good idea and its working.

the driving test changes and testers are now been tested along with minimum pre test lessons

various road information ads just saw one the other night about how to use a roundabout and driving on motorways.

the boy racer issue is another, now define boy racer?

the lad with the Type-R's (or any car) kitted to the hilt professionally and legally, these types are the ones who wont risk their cars with stupid driving attitudes because of the money spent.

the lad with the 1.6 golf with holes in the air intake and lexus lights and under car lights,blacked out windows etc will more than likely be at risk because of the show off atitude they have. I think the guards will use their common sense here and know who to target.

PCPhoto

bbability wrote: »

Yeah it seems alot of the stats collected can be a bit on the cloudy side.

They've made changes to the driving test and its long overdue. That change may take a while to reflect on statistics.

I wonder how many people over 60 caused serious accidents this year? If it was one or on hundred they should collect stats for that also.

How many people over 60 sat a driving test?

the thing is that they are driving so slow they cause someone to overtake and an accident happens - they just potter away in their own little world - completely oblivious to the other drivers !!!

I do agree that some "elderly" people on the roads are a danger - it seems like everyone else on the roads is a danger - EVERYONE should be made do advanced driving tests - learn about road awareness .... learn how to spot/deal with motorists/cyclists/pedestrians etc on the roads.

Wibbs

I agree. Too often its a case of Seen to be doing the right thing tm with effective stuff down the list. The boy racer meme is running strong at the moment and as narrow thinking and scaremongering is applied the obvious will be targeted. The current hoopla over Jap imports a good example.

This stat;

John Twomey wrote:

54 per cent of accidents happen between 6pm and midnight and mostly on roads with 50 to 80 km-an-hour speed limits, where 88 per cent of garda traffic enforcement is concentrated.

I'm gonna personally call shenanigans on that. I've been driving over 25 years(so I'm hardly defending "boy racers") and I could count on the fingers of one hand, after an accident with a threshing machine, the amount of times I've seen speed checks on 80Km known dodgy back roads. So pardon me, someone, I know not who, is talking out the side of their mouths. Oh sure if you take into account the speed checks where roads for no apparent reason drop from 100 to 80,(N11 being a good example) but on roads where these accidents tend to occur? Nope. The current Garda road policy has more of an element of shooting fish in a barrel. Watch when the private cameras come online where big money can be made.

Now I do see the other side. Particularly on the Garda front. I've mates in the force(not traffic though) and when I've asked them why these roads aren't targeted one good reason they give is their personal safety. The dodgy roads rarely have places where they can park and set up their gear safely. Plus as a large amount of these fatal crashes happen around midnight or after the safety thing is even more in play. Then there's the matter of their funding and staffing, which in so many areas is seriously lacking. They really don't want to go to the scene of a crash and have to inform relatives of deaths, but until they get more funding and manpower, especially in rural areas they're gonna continue to have to.

Then we need to increase education among the general population and start early. Of course that takes more money. Money we really don't have. So given a choice between that and speed cameras that generate income and you can see why some choices are made.

Wibbs

gerrycollins wrote: »

the lad with the Type-R's (or any car) kitted to the hilt professionally and legally, these types are the ones who wont risk their cars with stupid driving attitudes because of the money spent.

the lad with the 1.6 golf with holes in the air intake and lexus lights and under car lights,blacked out windows etc will more than likely be at risk because of the show off atitude they have.

Well funny you mention that as mates of mine in the force have pretty much said the same thing. The guy in the tricked out expensively modded car is far less likely to be drunk or stoned at the wheel and while will give the car the odd blat down a road, tend to be more careful. Like you say because they love their cars and have spent a fortune on them. The guy or gal in the shítbox shopping trolley with Type R 4X4 halfords badge is the main offender. Apparently the late 50's woman or man driving the Audi on finance at 10pm after a "glass of wine" with friends is much more likely to be pissed at the wheel too.

MidlandsM

Wibbs wrote: »

the late 50's woman or man driving the Audi on finance at 10pm after a "glass of wine" with friends is much more likely to be pissed at the wheel too.

+1

Yakult

Welcome to 2005 RSA... How many times have we heard this kinda scaremongering(Sp?) and I love the way they imply that any male between 16-30 years old is a "boyracer".

No matter what, you're gonna always have idiots behind the wheel, all ages including men and women.

corktina

R_H_C_P wrote: »

Welcome to 2005 RSA... How many times have we heard this kinda scaremongering(Sp?) and I love the way they imply that any male between 16-30 years old is a "boyracer".

No matter what, you're gonna always have idiots behind the wheel, all ages including men and women.

but statistcally most likely to be young inexperianced males out to impress their mates (I know, becasue amazing as it may seem, I used to be a young male once (time team are investigating that)

Mister men

Excellent news. Get these lunatics off the road.

Tefral

Some shíte different toilet, they trott this stuff out bi annually to look like they are doing something...

More often that not they end up hastling the wrong type and end up leaving the real boyracers off out on the road with mammys fiesta..

I wouldn't mind if they got those creeps off the road that speed up and down late and night
vrrOOOOOOOM VROOOOOM
:mad:

opinion guy

Lol. I'm forced to wonder what the average age of poster is on here (apart from old man Wibbs of course :P)

PCPhoto wrote: »

why do the government/gardai/insurance companies "twist" statistics to suit themselves ... more than 50% of drivers involved in fatal accidents were between 16-30 and 75% of them were male .... why not break it into a more realistic statistic ?

Why ?
Money!

On the government side focussing on one issues lets them be seen to be doing something. On the insurance industry side it allows them extort money from specific groups. I've long believed the way the insurance companies do their stats is fraudulent.

I believe that using age and sex as the primary factors when calculating risk is wrong. Generally speaking men start to drive a couple of years younger than ladies. Therefore of those learner drivers who are bad drivers and likely to have a crash early in their driving career the male ones will become apparent at a younger age than the female ones. Therefore, if one wants to calculate the risk for any given demographic one must take as a primary variable the number of years driving the insured person has and also the number of years safe driving the person has. The current system of accounting for this simply with a no claims bonus built up over five years is, fundamentally, a fudge factor that allows them to target who they want for excessive rates.

Drake66

Seemed a daft policy to me. They surrounded a group of these guys who are in a car park off the public road, and then kept approaching them even though their documents were all in order. Surely it would of made more sense to go looking for people breaking actual traffic laws on the public road.

jaffa20

I don't like how the age gap has increased to 30. I'm turning 25 soon and was hoping insurance would drop but if they are saying that a lot of 25-30year olds are buy racers(i highly doubt it), insurance companies are just going to put up premiums instead.

Nodferatu

its because of boy racers my f**king insurance is so high, stupid c**ts

opinion guy

Nodferatu wrote: »

its because of boy racers my f**king insurance is so high, stupid c**ts

Right.....so then have you noticed the flashy expensive buildings allt he insurance companies have ? You think that maybe, just maybe, after they've done paying out all their claims they have just a wee smidgen of profit left over ? You don't think thats why your insurance is so high perhaps ?

SV

Nodferatu wrote: »

its because of boy racers my f**king insurance is so high, stupid c**ts

No, I'm pretty sure it's because of people similar to you in age and location that have claimed that has your insurance so high.

let's not be silly about it now.

Atomic Pineapple

jaffa20 wrote: »

I don't like how the age gap has increased to 30. I'm turning 25 soon and was hoping insurance would drop but if they are saying that a lot of 25-30year olds are buy racers(i highly doubt it), insurance companies are just going to put up premiums instead.

Its always been 30, when I turned 25 it went own a little but not significantly more than when I turned 24.

Nodferatu wrote: »

its because of boy racers my f**king insurance is so high, stupid c**ts

I'm pretty sure its more likely to be because of your age, lack of driving experience, lack of no claims bonus etc...

Besides insurance for young males is cheaper these days than it ever has been.


If the garda went to my local town last night at 6pm and stayed there until 1/2 am they would have seen the same idiots drive up and down the town, creating noise, being a nuisance, speeding in the town, driving dangerously and being retards about 300 times.

So why didn't they and target proper boy racers at the source of the problem where they cause a real annoyance to the general public?

opinion guy

draffodx wrote: »

If the garda went to my local town last night at 6pm and stayed there until 1/2 am they would have seen the same idiots drive up and down the town, creating noise, being a nuisance, speeding in the town, driving dangerously and being retards about 300 times.

So why didn't they and target proper boy races at the source of the problem where they cause a real annoyance to the general public?

Right. Were these 'idiots' actually breaking any laws ?
Its a free country. If someone wants to spend their time driving up and down they are free to as long as they aren't breaking any laws

Atomic Pineapple

opinion guy wrote: »

Right. Were these 'idiots' actually breaking any laws ?

Yes

draffodx wrote: »

speeding in the town

draffodx wrote: »

driving dangerously

projectgtr

opinion guy wrote: »

Right. Were these 'idiots' actually breaking any laws ?
Its a free country. If someone wants to spend their time driving up and down they are free to as long as they aren't breaking any laws

Are you serious did you not read what he even said :rolleyes:

If the garda went to my local town last night at 6pm and stayed there until 1/2 am they would have seen the same idiots drive up and down the town, creating noise, being a nuisance, speeding in the town, driving dangerously and being retards about 300 times.

And coming from someone who is the mod of the modified section you can guarantee he not biased, going by whats said id be considered a "boy racer " i drive a modifed imported Civic and im in that age bracket, i would love the guards to be dealing with lads like the ones Draffodx mentioned

furtzy

I am fully behind this but the Gardai drastically need to change their approach to road safety. Recently seen them on the Carrickmacross bypass, one of the widest single carraigeway roads in the country, hiding behind a fence doing speed checks. They need to be on their own designated high accident roads. They also need to apply the letter of the law when dealing with traffic offences. The Traffic Blues programme on Rte highlighted their complete unprofessional attitude by letting unlicenced drivers continue in unroadworthy cars. It was shocking to see.

With regard to boy racers they need to adopt a zero tolerance approach. They need to do them for every infraction when they are stopped something along the lines of the New Zealand Boy Racer Act where cars are put off the road when found with non approved modifications.

The Unaccompanied L plate laws need to be enforced. Confiscation of cars, points and heavy fines imposed. Only in the last few days I have seen totally incompatence with L plate drivers unaccompanied. One simply had no idea how to drive. She went up on the footpath and repeatedly tried to drive up a one way street against the flow of oncoming traffic.....never seen anything as bad

The insurance companies also need to get onboard and start to only pay out third party claims for unaccompanied L plate drivers

The laws that currently exist need to strictly enforced as a start

And as for these clowns who drive around and around my town night after night with ridiculously loud exhausts purely to get noticed they need to be taken off the road. They do this past the county headquarters of the traffic corp without fear of being stopped.....its a joke

Rant over

-Corkie-

I dont think its boy racers are the problem with the souped up cars but the younger male driver driving normal looking cars.

RandomAccess

Drake66 wrote: »

Seemed a daft policy to me. They surrounded a group of these guys who are in a car park off the public road, and then kept approaching them even though their documents were all in order. Surely it would of made more sense to go looking for people breaking actual traffic laws on the public road.

Thats the piece of the article that stood out most for me.

"eventually we got to know them quite well. We got to develop a relationship with them. Eventually they just stopped coming out there," he said.

They probably just went somewhere else you tit!
The British police have been doing a light touch model of this for years, the aim I believe is to ensure the cars are legal and the drivers understand they could lose their license for dodgy driving.


http://www.psni.police.uk/150310_modifying_cars_modifying_behaviour

also worth looking at the interesting findings here,
http://www.adrianflux.co.uk/blog/2009/04/aa-nitrous-bogus-stats.html

projectgtr

furtzy wrote: »

I am fully behind this but the Gardai drastically need to change their approach to road safety. Recently seen them on the Carrickmacross bypass, one of the widest single carraigeway roads in the country, hiding behind a fence doing speed checks. They need to be on their own designated high accident roads. They also need to apply the letter of the law when dealing with traffic offences. The Traffic Blues programme on Rte highlighted their complete unprofessional attitude by letting unlicenced drivers continue in unroadworthy cars. It was shocking to see.

With regard to boy racers they need to adopt the same zero tolerance approach. They need to do them for every infraction when they are stopped something along the lines of the New Zealand Boy Racer Act where cars are put off the road when found with non approved modifications.

The Unaccompanied L plate laws need to be enforced. Confiscation of cars, points and heavy fines imposed. Only in the last few days I have seen totally incompatence with L plate drivers unaccompanied. One simply had no idea how to drive. She went up on the footpath and repeatedly tried to drive up a one way street against the flow of oncoming traffic.....never seen anything as bad

The insurance companies also need to get onboard and start to only pay out third party claims for unaccompanied L plate drivers

The laws that currently exist need to strictly enforced as a start

Zero tolerance will not work, they need to work with local lads, as was done in Canada, they drastically reduced there deaths and accidents in this age bracket by organising monthly meets where legal drag racing took place under the watchfull eye of the local law enforcment, those who didnt take part and continued on the streets were looked down at from their peers and treated very harshly by the law.

The difference a car makes when you come to a gaurd, yesterday my girlfriend was doing 80kmh in a 60 zone seen a guard up head with a speed gun in clear view, i was expecting to be pulled in but nope, the guard just signaled to her to slow down and keep going :eek: if that was me in my car i would have been pulled right in, in on sence it actually worked on my girlfriend when i explained what usually happens, she totally slowed down.

You are saying the road laws need to be strictly enforced, i dont think there is enough man power or resources to do this, To me a harsh word from a guard will do more than a few points for most, it mostly what happens in the uk going by the traffic shows

Reg'stoy

There will always be easy targets when they make themselves easy targets, and it's currently 'boy racers' I'd perfer to label them young/old male drivers myself, as we do undoubtly; account for the highest percentage of bad drivers.

In saying that, a lot of speeders I see on the M50 everyday are male 'white van drivers'. But I'm sure some white van driver will say b*****, I drive for a living and so consider himself a professional driver.

Complacency (driving for years) as much as niavety (haven't had their first squeeky bum moment yet!) are big factors in peoples bad driving. All too often I look in my rear view mirror and see a 'local' (of all ages) raise their eyes because I'm not willing to do 80kph on a back road that I don't know as well as them. I f**king hate :mad: with a passion drivers who sit on my rear bumper on back roads.

Personally I couldn't care less if they target 'boy racers', 'white van driver' or 'older drivers' as long as it generates debate and therefore bring road safety to everyones mind.

On a side note the cause of boy racers was not helped this morning on the M50, by the two flutes in an 8YO BMW that flew by me in p*** poor road conditions. Every other road user this morning including no doubt old and young drivers bore in mind the weather, God only knows what the driver of that car was thinking; but when I saw the article in the indo I thought of him.

As for those who feel they fall into the boy racer tag (rightly or wrongly) get over the persecution complex, all of us who fall into certain categories get blamed for something or other; thats just life.

corktina

opinion guy wrote: »

Right. Were these 'idiots' actually breaking any laws ?
Its a free country. If someone wants to spend their time driving up and down they are free to as long as they aren't breaking any laws

They are a damn nuisance, I live on the end of the town just past the last point a Gard is likely to be lurking and you hear them at all times of the night roaring past with their tiddly engines and huge exhausts. Its a free country but that doesnt give them any right to wake me up, I have my rights too

conneem-TT

RandomAccess wrote: »

also worth looking at the interesting findings here,
http://www.adrianflux.co.uk/blog/2009/04/aa-nitrous-bogus-stats.html

This is very intersting and you can even see from the news features over here that all of the recent accidents involving young men over here had normal everyday cars involved.

I don't see how they can use the recent accidents we have had here as evidence of "boy racer" behaviour when the cars involved were as ordinary as you could find and where if you look at the incidents logically, late night driving i.e. tiredness on poorly marked rural roads in cars full of people i.e. distractions you do not need reckless driving manouvers to see an accident occuring.

Despite this, eight men -- including seven young male friends -- died on the Inishowen Peninsula in Donegal in one of the worst road accidents in the country's history in July. The driver of one of the cars, a young man in his 20s, was the only survivor.

In another horrific multiple accident last month, four teenagers died when their car crashed after 7am as they returned from a party. In both cases speed is believed to have played a significant role.

Reg'stoy wrote: »

T
On a side note the cause of boy racers was not helped this morning on the M50, by the two flutes in an 8YO BMW that flew by me in p*** poor road conditions. Every other road user this morning including no doubt old and young drivers bore in mind the weather, God only knows what the driver of that car was thinking; but when I saw the article in the indo I thought of him.

How do you know the driver was <30 if he flew past you?

opinion guy

draffodx wrote: »

Yes

projectgtr wrote: »

Are you serious did you not read what he even said :rolleyes:

If the garda went to my local town last night at 6pm and stayed there until 1/2 am they would have seen the same idiots drive up and down the town, creating noise, being a nuisance, speeding in the town, driving dangerously and being retards about 300 times.

And coming from someone who is the mod of the modified section you can guarantee he not biased, going by whats said id be considered a "boy racer " i drive a modifed imported Civic and im in that age bracket, i would love the guards to be dealing with lads like the ones Draffodx mentioned

Fair enough. I have a head cold and am not at my sharpest. Be nice to me

Testament1

conneem-TT wrote: »

This is very intersting and you can even see from the news features over here that all of the recent accidents involving young men over here had normal everyday cars involved.

I don't see how they can use the recent accidents we have had here as evidence of "boy racer" behaviour when the cars involved were as ordinary as you could find

If only the RSA/Guards could adopt this kind of logic and common sense. Id be on the road most days (driving a modified car usually) and most of the stupid and dangerous driving i see comes from ordinary cars. Its about time that the powers that be got a bit of cop on and start targeting all cars and drivers regardless of age or sex instead of trotting out the usual "new clampdown on boy racers/jap import cars" bullsh*t.....