Centa/Spar/Londis

Fo Real

How comes every Centa/Spar/Londis in the country have Pakistanis and Chinese exclusively working in them? Are they being paid below minimum wage or is there some other reason why this is the case?

I don't want to hear any PC bullshít or "dey turk our jobz" jokes. It's not funny when you're at your wits end trying to find work. These jobs were traditionally given to students or young people in the local community, but now we're left to drown in a sea of debt.

I've been civil in this post so please no racism accusations. Likewise, no racist responses please. This is so frustrating.
Thanks.

Nolanger

We're either too educated or lazy for these jobs. It's annoying - bet the tourists would prefer to be served by Irish?

Roro4Brit

I guess if I was a shop owner I'd have thought - a student who can work 10 hours a week for me or a Chinese person who wants to work here full time and will stay put. I'd go with Chinese.

You've answered your own question really. These were jobs only Irish students would touch as a nixer on the way to bigger and better, but now the good times are over the Irish want the jobs...well tough...the Chinese/other nationalites were staying in these jobs long before the **** hit the fan, and they'll be the ones willing to stay there if things improve, so alls fair...

gerrycollins

no offence mate but you are about 10 yrs too late with this thread. anyways while you are generalising about "every c/s/l in the country" they dont all hire foregin nationals exclusively.

im a grocery manager and worked in dunnes, supervalu and centra and the honest answer is that a majority of irish workers who would have applied for work with me dont want to do the unsocial hours,the long periods without a fag/break etc but all within the law mind you..im not saying you dont but in my experience of 11 years i found that foregin nationals,paid the same rate, work whatever hours they are asked. i wish i did an analysis of the reliability of the foregin staff vs the irish.

btw they are not all brill either, we did have a few canaries but its the work ethic. I had a centra once and out of the 21 staff none were foreginers however that was in the sticks however in my city suburban supervalu I'd say the irish staff were of the minority.

Fo Real

What does "too educated" mean? I have a degree but I'm willing to work at the counter of a Spar. Surely that's all that matters?

And I'd agree with your second point that tourists would prefer to be served by Irish people. If I was on holiday in Pakistan and was greeted by a white person in every shop I walked into, I'd think it was odd to say the least. Also tourists often pop into these shops to ask for directions (since theres one on every corner!). Surely a native who has lived in the city their whole life knows the place bettet than a foreigner?

These immigrants must be accepting less than minimum wage, they must be. If anybody knows the exact reason why Pakistanis/Chinese are hired over Irish, please let me know.

EDIT: Just saw Gerry's response above. Thanks for the insight

Berty

Ireland is behind the times as far as other countries are concerned when it comes to immigration.

Head over to Australia or the United States to a Major city and if you expect to me served by a "born and bred" citizen then you have another thing coming.

Those countries were always "desirable" by immigrants. Once free transit opened up in the EU we became desirable.

Some people are simply not used to the naturalisation yet.

Head out of a major city in Ireland and into the sticks and you will find mostly Irish people in delis.

Pablo Sanchez

Fo Real wrote: »

What does "too educated" mean? I have a degree but I'm willing to work at the counter of a Spar. Surely that's all that matters?


These immigrants must be accepting less than minimum wage, they must be. If anybody knows the exact reason why Pakistanis/Chinese are hired over Irish, please let me know.

Firstly you are 'willing' to work in Spar, thats fair enough, if i owned the place id have the feeling that you were resenting the fact that you had taken a position below your station. The foreigner will, more than likely, value the job and will be happy to be there.

I have previously worked in retail managment in both a spar type operation, and also in a sports clothes shop. The convenience store was staffed exclusivly (except managment) by eastern european and asian staff, a pleasure to work with, courteous, hard working, punctual and eager to take what ever hours are going.

On the flip side when working with an Irish workforce it was nothing but moaning, sickness and a general poor attitude both to customers and to the job itself. If i owned a shop i would favour a foreigner every day of the week.

And no, they do not get paid below minimum, not in any reputible company anyway, clearly cant vouch for independants/one man band type operations.

Denerick

I worked in a supermarket for a year (Costcutters and a corner shop owned by the same guy) There was only one other irish person working there. I worked around 20 hours per week during college. With maybe one or two exceptions, it was always foreigners leaving in CVs for these jobs.

It really doesn't surprise me that managers choose foreigners over locals. For one thing they work harder and are more committed, for another I was a lazy worker who did his bare minimum for a few quid. And I left before my end of year exams. Its a no brainer.

Shelflife

The simple fact of the matter is that during the celtic tiger very few irish wanted to work in retail. we advertised jobs on three occasions over the tiger period and got 1 irish applicant who just told me he would take the job but would work nights, weekends and wanted €450 in cash.

so the foreign nationals got the jobs , worked hard and are still in them.

Javiero

unfair and very sad for Irish folk not to be able to get employment in their own country.
Sure its very true, Irish people have made mistakes, but hasnt everybody made mistakes in their lifes.
Lots of Irish would give their front teeth for a job and cant get it, and many I know cant even get help from the state

If not, they should be put up on a podium with the pontiff.

I just think its sad. that's all

munstergirl

It is very sad.

To generalise irish people are lazy, some of irish people are friendly + hard working too.

And some foreign people are lazy + misreable.

Its the future of Ireland and local communitys, give the foreign person the job and let the irish stay on the dole.

I too was a retail manager and saw good + not so good in all nationalitys.

Are the government still giving out come to Ireland and learn english visas, or should i say come to ireland and get a job?

Denerick

People refuse to think about this rationally. I am without employment but even during college I worked in a shop with foreign people. Irish people were never looking for work there, even though the shop was in an inner city area with circa 10% unemployment.

So lets be perfectly frank about this.

Cian92

I have never worked in retail, but I have worked in a large factory with quite alot of foreignors. Some worked hard some didn't, it was the same with the Irish. Us young Irish people who managed to get a summer job were probarly the hardest working group, we tried for the most hours, did the most unsociable hours, and never complained. We were paid the least too. So I find these generalistions against the Irish to be very insulting.

If it annoys you that a shop doesn't hire enough Irish people do what I do with one of my local shops and boycott it.

Shelflife

So what do you suggest that the local shop do cian? sack the foreigners and give the locals jobs?

as i said earlier 3 years ago the irish didnt want these jobs, foreigners were employed and have remained in these jobs.

Insomniac_

They want too work .. where as the irish dont..

Very hard workers too.. currently looking for a job myself and would take anything but the chinese and polish in particular.. very hard workers .. so fair play too them

Fo Real

So should the Irish just accept that they'll never gain this sort of employment in their own country? It's this sort of attitude that has half a million of our population wasting away on the dole.

And I don't accept the argument that foreigners had the jobs before and "are remaining in them". Recent arrivals are currently being employed over the natives.

Also can we please stop perpetuating the ignorant generalisation that Irish people are lazy. Self-hatred is not an attractive trait.

Insomniac_

well in fairness nearly all my mates either work in a spar or centra somewhere ... all my local shops are irish also .. few foreign guys work in the topaz around the corner .. have pulled into some topaz's during the early morning too see an irish guy asleep on his chair .. now I know not all irish are like that but its happend on 2 occasions ..

murphym7

I live in Cork and pop in and out of these type of stores every day. I have never seen a Chinese and very few Pakistani/Indian employee's working in any of them.

I would say the mix is 50/50 between Irish and Eastern european's.

Insomniac_

Theres a londis and a centra right around the corner from me .. along with 2 other smaller newsagents.. all irish bar 1 girl from latvia .. also 2 shops only employ girls .. shame cause would have been ahandy place too work

mikemac

Worked in many hotels and with many different nationalities. And each nationality has its share of hard workers and wasters.

Realy, the summer students were the hardest working and they were paid less then the full time staff.
They worked the worst hours like cleaning after weddings at 4am and had to compete for hours on the roster

The Right to Work & Study in Ireland:
As a visa student in Ireland, you must register as a full-time student with the Garda National Immigration Bureau (GNIB - The Irish Police) and then you will also be permitted to work part-time in Ireland (up to a maximum of 20 hours a week and full-time during vacation periods) to support yourself. At the Irish College of English, we will help and guide you with this process.

For more information see: http://www.justice.ie

From the first school in Google, realy they all have the same info.
That 20 hour rule isn't enforced. And some of these schools exist only on paper, it's a backdoor way to get a visa and start working in Ireland

gerrycollins

Fo Real wrote: »

So should the Irish just accept that they'll never gain this sort of employment in their own country? It's this sort of attitude that has half a million of our population wasting away on the dole.

And I don't accept the argument that foreigners had the jobs before and "are remaining in them". Recent arrivals are currently being employed over the natives.

Also can we please stop perpetuating the ignorant generalisation that Irish people are lazy. Self-hatred is not an attractive trait.

no I think from my experience that its a fair battle and I know a few irish recently who got work in these small shop but dunno if they were against and foreginers

krd

I've known Chinese, Indian and Polish people who have worked in the shops.

The shop owners hire them because they know they'll put up with up with more and are not likely to walk out the door.

There's racism involved in it too. The shop managers feel it's easier to boss them around because they feel superior to them. The foreigners act dumb - the shop manager thinks they have a docile cowed workforce - everyone seems happy.

The truth is. The vast majority of foreigners working in shops hate the job as much as Irish people. I've heard them bitch to me about the crap they had to put up with. And some were getting screwed on pay and were treated like slaves. A Polish girl I knew used to get locked in her shop overnight to stock take - locked in so she couldn't steal. What if there had ever been a fire?

They don't work and harder or less harder than Irish people or anyone else. They can be as lazy and feckless as anyone else.

gerrycollins

krd wrote: »

I've known Chinese, Indian and Polish people who have worked in the shops.

The shop owners hire them because they know they'll put up with up with more and are not likely to walk out the door.

I had a deli position that required a half 6am start and of the 5 irish I interviewed all refused so the only person to do it was a polish girl.

krd wrote: »

There's racism involved in it too. The shop managers feel it's easier to boss them around because they feel superior to them. The foreigners act dumb - the shop manager thinks they have a docile cowed workforce - everyone seems happy.

now that poor management skills tbh plain and simple never came across that attitude personally

krd wrote: »

The truth is. The vast majority of foreigners working in shops hate the job as much as Irish people. I've heard them bitch to me about the crap they had to put up with. And some were getting screwed on pay and were treated like slaves. A Polish girl I knew used to get locked in her shop overnight to stock take - locked in so she couldn't steal. What if there had ever been a fire?

the first part is true but they are only human and you only get to know them when you are with them for some time, the pay issue cannot arise in a retail environment however that not to say some people are abusing them. as for been locked in, it only takes a phone call to the local fire chief to fix that.

krd wrote: »

They don't work and harder or less harder than Irish people or anyone else. They can be as lazy and feckless as anyone else.

true they are human too and all staff need to be treated equally and managed equally. personally Ive never come across an incident where there was a massive difference but as I first said when i had a deli position requiring a half 6 start only a polish girl would do it.

Tchaikovsky

I fear that many of the employers of these establishments hold the same discriminatory generalisations of the Irish as the employers who have spoken in this thread.
Just because they have encountered some feckless Irish staff doesn't mean that prospective Irish applicants should be at a disadvantage solely because of their nationality.
If this type of stuff was going on in Britain for the Irish we'd all be screaming blue murder.

gerrycollins

Tchaikovsky wrote: »

I fear that many of the employers of these establishments hold the same discriminatory generalisations of the Irish as the employers who have spoken in this thread.
Just because they have encountered some feckless Irish staff doesn't mean that prospective Irish applicants should be at a disadvantage solely because of their nationality.
If this type of stuff was going on in Britain for the Irish we'd all be screaming blue murder.

i have no discriminatory feelings against irish workers as i said the last place i worked were all irish and yes we did have foregin applicants however they failed the interview process.

Fo Real

Bloody hell, today it was announced that the government wants a 50% rise in the number of international students coming to Ireland. http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0922/students_strategy.html

I suppose all these "students" will also be looking for part time jobs. Great, just what we need - more competition. Well done Fianna Fáil. As thousands of young Irish men and women are emigrating abroad, you want to invite more shiploads of Indians and Chinese to our shores. The effects of this on the country's demographics will be felt for years to come. I suppose the government need somebody to fill all those empty apartments. It was always about satisfying the property developers during the boom anyway....

Denerick

Fo Real wrote: »

Bloody hell, today it was announced that the government wants a 50% rise in the number of international students coming to Ireland. http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0922/students_strategy.html

I suppose all these "students" will also be looking for part time jobs. Great, just what we need - more competition. Well done Fianna Fáil. As thousands of young Irish men and women are emigrating abroad, you want to invite more shiploads of Indians and Chinese to our shores. The effects of this on the country's demographics will be felt for years to come. I suppose the government need somebody to fill all those empty apartments. It was always about satisfying the property developers during the boom anyway....

Its demand and supply. Students could pick and choose when I started college 4 years ago - now they're screwed. Why do you put students under inverted comma's?

bigpink

Go to Tesco in Cresent shopping centre and see how many Aisans work there but they are all "students" in a private college in Limerick.

I was working in a place in Limerick and we got cvs from Aisans all the exact same except their name and number and who was their Irish Reference?The principal of the private college

bigpink

Student visas is a well known scam like fake weddings

Bottle_of_Smoke

Can't believe the justification for discrimination being spouted on this thread.

Just because you're Irish does not mean you are going to be lazy.

Imagine the uproar if an employer only hired men because women are likely to get pregnant.

I've noticed the same thing OP and I believe that it will lead to Irish people becoming resentful and some even racist. I don't want to see Ireland head down the route Britain has so I think employers discriminating against Irish citizens should be punished

Denerick

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Can't believe the justification for discrimination being spouted on this thread.

Just because you're Irish does not mean you are going to be lazy.

Imagine the uproar if an employer only hired men because women are likely to get pregnant.

I've noticed the same thing OP and I believe that it will lead to Irish people becoming resentful and some even racist. I don't want to see Ireland head down the route Britain has so I think employers discriminating against Irish citizens should be punished

How is anyone discriminating here? Employers and employees are recalling that in the boom times the majority of applicants were foreigners, and that foreigners tended to be more loyal and diligent. These are personal experiences, not signs of discrimination. While careful not to generalise, I can certainly see why employers would rely more on their foreign workers.

danthefan

I'm Irish, recently finished college, but I worked in a Centra for about 8 or 9 years through school then college. I was pretty much always part time. When I started out it was a lot of Irish staff, all working part time shifts, with a few foreigners. When I finished it was a fairly small number of mostly foreign staff all working full time, with maybe 3 or 4 Irish working part time. There were Chinese, Indian and Eastern Europeans working there, at the moment it's mostly Indians and the reason they get the hours is that they work hard to be fair to them. Rarely/never miss shifts, always put the effort in, and available to work at any time. I don't blame the management of the shop at all for hiring Indian workers.

That's not to say the Irish staff were lazy, but there were basically no Irish staff who wanted to work full time. Aside from the managers I can't remember the last Irish full timer there.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Denerick wrote: »

How is anyone discriminating here?

Employers and employees are recalling that in the boom times the majority of applicants were foreigners, and that foreigners tended to be more loyal and diligent.

That is discriminating!

These are personal experiences, not signs of discrimination. While careful not to generalise, I can certainly see why employers would rely more on their foreign male workers.

That still fair?

Denerick

Look, talk to any manager who has employed Irish people in these supermarkets. We are crap workers, don't care, and are only there for the duration. End of. Less of this side stepping PC stuff.

NR04

FO REAL: "Half a million Irish people on the dole" - You are obviously someone who keeps up to date on current affairs (NOT)!!!!

I recently started at a new clothing store in Dublin. Out of the 16 staff employed 14 are Irish and two are foreign. Everyone works equally as hard.

bigpink

How are all the Aisans getting jobs when they are Non Eu nationals?

gerrycollins

bigpink wrote: »

How are all the Aisans getting jobs when they are Non Eu nationals?

most of them are here on student visa which allow them to work 20 hours in any job.

gerrycollins

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

That is discriminating!

take it from me that in some of the places that I have worked in its a fact and I know because I was the one doing the interviews.

read shelflife comment about been asked o be paid into the hand that was very common and to think they were asking me outright to mess with the system.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Denerick wrote: »

Look, talk to any manager who has employed Irish people in these supermarkets. We are crap workers, don't care, and are only there for the duration. End of. Less of this side stepping PC stuff.

A lot of employers would say that about Nigerians. Somehow I don't think that would be seen as acceptable to defend on this board.

The simple fact is employers hire them because they know it is easier to get them to do extra shifts at short notice and treat them poorly compared to Irish staff who won't put up with that sh*t.

bigpink

gerrycollins wrote: »

most of them are here on student visa which allow them to work 20 hours in any job.

ah yes the old student visa scam

ScouseMouse

When I ran a store in the city centre of Dublin, I had numerous incidents of no-shows by staff.

Numerous incidents of turning up with love bites all over their necks.

Numerous incidents of not turning up at all due to a heavy night out.

Numerous incidents of I wont work for minimum wage and so on.

A general attitude of "just get money to go out and get pissed"

I cannot recall one incident of this happening with a polish/chinese/foreign person.

Times have changed now. Work is hard to get and people are considering things they would never have dreamed of before. Unfortunatley, its to late as those positions which are still there, are filled.

I have had regular customers coming into me recently asking me for ANY work that is available. However, due to hard times, positions are being abolished and work spread out among remaining staff.

I dont have any foreign staff at present, just Irish, and they relish what they have. We work together as a team - us - NOT me and them.

But FROM EXPERIENCE, I know these lads are few and far between.

mikemac

Maybe pay more then minimum wage to attract better staff

If you are paying the absolute minimum that you have to pay, the staff may value the job but they know you don't value them very highly

ScouseMouse

feelingstressed wrote: »

Maybe pay more then minimum wage to attract better staff

If you are paying the absolute minimum that you have to pay, the staff may value the job but they know you don't value them very highly

That will increase the costs of the stock for sale.

Are you really suggesting prices could be put up?

I have lowered loads of my prices, but at what cost?

Serious staff cuts, and sourcing stock from the UK. (more irish jobs lost)

But hey ! I am a lot cheaper than I was when I was fully staffed, and supporting irish suppliers !

Fo Real

I've given up the search for work in these sorts of convenience stores. I was naive to think that managers would have a sense of community and give the kid living up the road the advertised job. But no, they'd prefer to get their hands on some uneducated, low skilled refugee from the other side of the planet, who they can boss around and won't answer back.

Denerick

Aldi pay their shop floor staff over 11 euro per hour. As a result they have loyal, productive (Willing to work their socks off) and willing staff who may be reluctant to leave upon a whim, which you get for convenience store staff. Frankly it makes sense for a business to pay slightly over the minimum - the staff are the shop front, an unhappy staff equals an unhappy shop, and unhappy shoppers... But anyway

Fo Real

Since it was mentioned, kudos to Aldi for giving Irish people the chance to work. The same can be said for Lidl, Dunnes Stores, SuperValu and Tescos. These supermarkets do genereally make a point of hiring locals and building good rapport with their customers and the local community.

But I was specifically talking about the smaller convenience stores that are popping up on every street, in every town in the country.

ScouseMouse

Denerick wrote: »

Aldi pay their shop floor staff over 11 euro per hour. As a result they have loyal, productive (Willing to work their socks off) and willing staff who may be reluctant to leave upon a whim, which you get for convenience store staff. Frankly it makes sense for a business to pay slightly over the minimum - the staff are the shop front, an unhappy staff equals an unhappy shop, and unhappy shoppers... But anyway

This is quite right, but have you compared the amount of staff to the size of a typical aldi store?

When I worked for LIDL in a country store, most of the time we only had three people in the entire store, most of the staff were Lithuanian.

When you are in a foreign country, and you MUST work to live, then you WILL work and do whatever has to be done to keep your job.

IN THE PAST, the irish just "couldn't be arsed". Things are changing though, not through desire, buy necessity.

ILA

Can't believe this hasn't been posted yet:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLni3wbndls

Joking aside:

It's something I've noticed as well, and it's not because Irish people aren't applying for these jobs as soon as they're vacant. The fact is that there are Law graduates (some who've passed Law Society exams too, so are qualified) willing to work in McDonalds and similar minimum wage jobs.

As a young but reliable person, it annoys me that some of these businesses won't even respond to applications. I don't buy the "they're [migrants] more reliable/efficient" crap, as I've personally met tons of migrants who have been cheated in their jobs, with employment legislation having been breached without them knowing it until its too late.

The amount of fiddling going on in some small, local businesses is unreal. Employers PRSI unpaid, changes in company details to avoid taxation or other obligations, etc.

That is why I believe most Irish people find it hard to get work in these businesses.

Pablo Sanchez

Fo Real wrote: »

I've given up the search for work in these sorts of convenience stores. I was naive to think that managers would have a sense of community and give the kid living up the road the advertised job. But no, they'd prefer to get their hands on some uneducated, low skilled refugee from the other side of the planet, who they can boss around and won't answer back.

With an attitude like that im not suprised they overlooked you, why do they owe you anything, if you were a better candidate than the 'refugees' they would have chosen you.....

NR04

Pablo Sanchez thats exactly what I was going to say. The job obviously goes to the person with the positive attitude, the most experience and who looks like their going to stay with the company.

FO REAL:
What do you know about these companies/the business their in/their customers??
How much experience do you have in convienence retailing??
Do you want to grow with the company and work your way up to management level??

Take a look at this clip when Londis on Stephens Green advertised two positions for deli staff on Monday the 20 April 2009 and held an open interview two days later:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cf31q4TC790

Fo Real

@NR04: LOL did you even read the comments underneath the video you posted? It may give you an insight into how the man on the street feels about the issue.

But whatever. Like I already said, I've given up the search for work in this country. Ireland: the land of civil servants, retired civil servants, the unemployed, low quality immigrants who like our social welfare system and travellers.

Oh and all their sprogs.

For anyone who wishes to remain behind in this cesspit, I'd say there'll be plenty of business opportunites servicing welfare recipients, low cost booze, drugs (as we saw with the recent head shop phenomenon), baby equipment, gambling, personal injury claims and 2 week holidays in Playa de Ingles.