An Engineers opinion

spadesaspade

Hi Engineers
I was discussing a problem with a friend of mine and he said i should get an engineers advice, so here it goes.

I have a 3meter diameter Zorb ball which i need to get up a 350 meter hill, gradient roughly 1:3.

The ball will need to be brought up the hill at least thirty times per day.

I am trying to find the most cost efficient way of doing this, pulley etc!!!

Your help is thanked in advance

Spadesaspade

chris85

spadesaspade wrote: »

Hi Engineers
I was discussing a problem with a friend of mine and he said i should get an engineers advice, so here it goes.

I have a 3meter diameter Zorb ball which i need to get up a 350 meter hill, gradient roughly 1:3.

The ball will need to be brought up the hill at least thirty times per day.

I am trying to find the most cost efficient way of doing this, pulley etc!!!

Your help is thanked in advance

Spadesaspade

Interesting. Them balls are quite big.

If it is one zorb only is being run than frequency (say once every 12 mins based on a six hour day) is not that often i would probably side with a more manual approach and have a quad bike (or small jeep) and a small trailer attached with a rig to hold the zorb and bring it up the hill each time.

More than that its difficult being cost effective due to the length of the run being 350m and anything continuous like a pulley could be expensive at this length, especially if not running that often.

If it was shorter with a higher frequency than i may suggest a conveyer belt type operation with inserts to hold the zorb balls in place on their ascent up the hill.

Thats my 2 cents anyways.

TimeToShine

chris85 wrote: »

Interesting. Them balls are quite big.

.

THATS WHAT SHE SAID

chris85

TimeToShine wrote: »

THATS WHAT SHE SAID

it had to be said.

Aln_S

The ball is pretty light though, right?

What about a small motor and a reel at the top of the hill pulling up a cart. Some light rope should do.

You could also run some steel wire up the hill to keep the cart on track.

Just a thought.

alanucc

It's worth considering employing some young fella to push it up for you.

judas101

I reckon a quad bike would be the best way to do it.
Just drag it up the hill. You'd nip up in no time.

Also would be much cheaper than the pulley options and would hold some resale value.

I would love to give it a go. Are you running a business based on it?

spadesaspade

Yeah, just in the process of getting it set up at the min. Hopefully will have it ready soon

enmac

travelling for 350 metres at a gradient of 1 in 3 would build up a lot of momentum - is this the standard distance / gradient for zorbing ?

De Bhál

That's a seriously steep slope - too steep I'd imagine, but I'm not basing this on anything scientific, just a feeling

spadesaspade

The slope gradually falls to nothing after about 200 meters so the last 150 is slowing down to a natural stop, so dont need bunds or anything at the end:D

De Bhál

Fair enough

I'd say the easiest way to get the Zorb back to the top is for 2 men roughly the same height pushing it back up the hill.

Or is this option to expensive? Are you not looking to pay anyone.

deandean

For efficient turn-around I suggest you have two pricing structures:

(1) "SELF LOADERS". Push your own Zorb up the hill, 20 quid a go.

(2) "Priority Channel". Zorb pulled up by quad bike for you, 50 quid a go.

Sincerely,
Michael O'Leery.

Paul_Designer

Hi Spadesaspade,

A quad bike or old jeep sounds like the cheapest option. Cables and puulys over that length will need maintanace etc, also if you use a electic motor you will have to supply power etc.
A propose designed trailer and small quad bike, would be less cost and very small maintance, when compaired to any pully system.

PM me if you are interested in a proposed design trailer for the big ball.


P

judas101

Surely you woulnt need a trailer?

I doubt it would damage the ball.

Just tie it on and away you go

Chet T16

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/1547479

Problem solved, lock the thread!

mayo_lad

I'm guessing you have a little ramp made for the back of it to make it easier to load the zorb

all you would have to do is get a sheet of marine plywood and a few lats going across the sheet for a foot hold and a length of angle iron for a frame. all you would have to do to attach it would be to lift it on to the back door of the flat bed with 2 pieces of angle iron

Turbulent Bill

I'd go for the trailer option, with enough clearance for off-road use and a hitch that would work with a jeep and a quad (not sure if they use the same kind). Bring the Zorb to the hill using the trailer and jeep, then use a quad to shuttle the Zorb up the hill.

With a bit of thought you could get lots of free advertising going to and from the hill using a stand-out trailer design.

apoeiguq3094y

spadesaspade wrote: »

Hi Engineers
I was discussing a problem with a friend of mine and he said i should get an engineers advice, so here it goes.

I have a 3meter diameter Zorb ball which i need to get up a 350 meter hill, gradient roughly 1:3.

The ball will need to be brought up the hill at least thirty times per day.

I am trying to find the most cost efficient way of doing this, pulley etc!!!

Your help is thanked in advance

Spadesaspade

If you're trying to maximise efficancy, I'd recommend using some kind of stationary power unit, small diesel engine or electric motor, with a winch system. For this kind of single use job you'd be wasting energy by moving a car or quad up the hill all the time, especially since you wouldn't recover the energy driving down the hill.

I'd try a driven pulley at the top with a tensioned pulley at teh bottom. Have a loop of rope going around, and latch the zorb ball on, perhaps with a trailer. You could lash together a handy trailer using bicycle wheels.

If you're only bringing up a ball the odd time or more than every few minutes, I'd recommend electric power. Petrol & diesel are very inefficient when the engine is cold, and also you'd have to store fuel on site (which will probably get stolen if its not near a house).

FesterBeatty

The zorb going down could be connected to a rope, running through a pulley located off to one side, so as one goes down it pulls another back up!? Connection between rope/zorb to swivel and allow for completely free rotation of the zorb. Energy wasted - zero! Also, minimizes initial set up costs and eliminates ongoing fuel costs etc.

If you're not happy with that, I'd go with the stationary power unit - perhaps look into wind power depending on your location.

apoeiguq3094y

FesterBeatty wrote: »

The zorb going down could be connected to a rope, running through a pulley located off to one side, so as one goes down it pulls another back up!? Connection between rope/zorb to swivel and allow for completely free rotation of the zorb. Energy wasted - zero! Also, minimizes initial set up costs and eliminates ongoing fuel costs etc.

If you're not happy with that, I'd go with the stationary power unit - perhaps look into wind power depending on your location.

Wind power is a good idea actually, especially since there is a hill involved here, i'm presuming you're somewhere that would have constant-ish wind.

Turbulent Bill

apoeiguq3094y wrote: »

If you're trying to maximise efficancy, I'd recommend using some kind of stationary power unit, small diesel engine or electric motor, with a winch system. For this kind of single use job you'd be wasting energy by moving a car or quad up the hill all the time, especially since you wouldn't recover the energy driving down the hill.

I'd be more concerned about flexibility than efficiency for a startup - the fuel costs would be dwarfed by the capital equipment costs, training, maintenance etc. for a dedicated winch/transit system. The options will also depend on whether the OP owns the land (and thus can keep equipment permanently on it), do customers need to be brought to the site or make their own way, how large the finish area is etc. - lots to consider.

I'd pick the most flexible system possible to start, then scale/change it as (hopefully) the number of customers increases.

apoeiguq3094y

Turbulent Bill wrote: »

I'd be more concerned about flexibility than efficiency for a startup - the fuel costs would be dwarfed by the capital equipment costs, training, maintenance etc. for a dedicated winch/transit system. The options will also depend on whether the OP owns the land (and thus can keep equipment permanently on it), do customers need to be brought to the site or make their own way, how large the finish area is etc. - lots to consider.

I'd pick the most flexible system possible to start, then scale/change it as (hopefully) the number of customers increases.

you have to be in management. you haven't given us any new info, yet you've made the problem more complicated......

I don't see how there would be training costs to do with a winch or pulley... here's the on switch... here's the off switch..... try not to get yourself mangled by the rope.

Capital costs.... an electric motor powered by single phase mains would be a few hundred tops. If there's no mains, you'd pick up ~5hp motor for a hundred easily. By far cheaper than putting petrol into a quad or diesel for a small tractor. The slope is 1 in 3 at the highest, so you would use a lot of fuel running a quad up that gradient all day, easily burn through 20 quid a day. I think your running costs over a year could easily dwarf your capital costs.

maintenance costs?? Bit of grease or lube of some sort every now and then.

You can keep startup money down by using second hand parts. If you hit your local car-boot sale or adverts.ie you'd find most stuff you need going cheap.

Turbulent Bill

apoeiguq3094y wrote: »

you have to be in management. you haven't given us any new info, yet you've made the problem more complicated......

I don't see how there would be training costs to do with a winch or pulley... here's the on switch... here's the off switch..... try not to get yourself mangled by the rope.

Capital costs.... an electric motor powered by single phase mains would be a few hundred tops. If there's no mains, you'd pick up ~5hp motor for a hundred easily. By far cheaper than putting petrol into a quad or diesel for a small tractor. The slope is 1 in 3 at the highest, so you would use a lot of fuel running a quad up that gradient all day, easily burn through 20 quid a day. I think your running costs over a year could easily dwarf your capital costs.

maintenance costs?? Bit of grease or lube of some sort every now and then.

You can keep startup money down by using second hand parts. If you hit your local car-boot sale or adverts.ie you'd find most stuff you need going cheap.

I'll spell it out. The main aim of a new business like this is to prove it's fun, safe and reliable, otherwise people will just do something else and it'll die. A hacked-together pulley system is likely to jam and break, stranding the business until it's fixed, and would be an insurance nightmare if not properly protected. Remember all of this stuff is potentially accessible to the customers, and needs to be bulletproof.

For a startup you just need a flexible system, not necessarily the most efficient, which you don't have to worry about. Once customer numbers build by all means get a dedicated system (designed for purpose). As an analogy, ski lifts aren't installed on Alpine slopes until there's proof of customer volumes.

apoeiguq3094y

Turbulent Bill wrote: »

I'll spell it out. The main aim of a new business like this is to prove it's fun, safe and reliable, otherwise people will just do something else and it'll die. A hacked-together pulley system is likely to jam and break, stranding the business until it's fixed, and would be an insurance nightmare if not properly protected. Remember all of this stuff is potentially accessible to the customers, and needs to be bulletproof.

For a startup you just need a flexible system, not necessarily the most efficient, which you don't have to worry about. Once customer numbers build by all means get a dedicated system (designed for purpose). As an analogy, ski lifts aren't installed on Alpine slopes until there's proof of customer volumes.

Okay, spell it out, don't dance around the original problem. What would you do for this problem. You've said we need a flexible system - what would that be? You also said that its important to keep the startup costs down.

So spell it out for me. What would be a low cost, highly reliable, professional looking, and safe way of getting a zorb ball to the top of the hill. (Without using buzz words or vague terminology.)

mikewest

Its a hill so I suggest a cheapo tractor with good battery and starter maybe a DB990 with back end gone (useless for most farming so cheap) and some for kind of cheap trailer modified for use with a few planks of wood. Alternatively a DOE failed 4x4 again with good starter and cheap trailer. A quad strong enough and reliable enough for hauling the trailer up the hill would be too dear imho.

No need for complicated engineering solutions yet until you have a lot of zorbs going down that hill.

Turbulent Bill

apoeiguq3094y wrote: »

Okay, spell it out, don't dance around the original problem. What would you do for this problem. You've said we need a flexible system - what would that be? You also said that its important to keep the startup costs down.

So spell it out for me. What would be a low cost, highly reliable, professional looking, and safe way of getting a zorb ball to the top of the hill. (Without using buzz words or vague terminology.)

See Post #18.

mayo_lad

apoeiguq3094y wrote: »

If you're trying to maximise efficancy, I'd recommend using some kind of stationary power unit, small diesel engine or electric motor, with a winch system. For this kind of single use job you'd be wasting energy by moving a car or quad up the hill all the time, especially since you wouldn't recover the energy driving down the hill.

I'd try a driven pulley at the top with a tensioned pulley at teh bottom. Have a loop of rope going around, and latch the zorb ball on, perhaps with a trailer. You could lash together a handy trailer using bicycle wheels.

If you're only bringing up a ball the odd time or more than every few minutes, I'd recommend electric power. Petrol & diesel are very inefficient when the engine is cold, and also you'd have to store fuel on site (which will probably get stolen if its not near a house).

did you ever here of KISS engineering ie KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID .
every one else presumed that the OP wanted a mobile cheep solution to the problem what you have proposed it over complicated and expensive

apoeiguq3094y

Turbulent Bill wrote: »

See Post #18.

How is a Jeep cheap? you're talking a few grand for the inital cost, plus maintenance, then you also have insurance, maybe not for the road, but you're going to have to cover it for public liability.

With regard to the KISS comment. You could make a very simple winch with a motor. Just wind up the rope. If you want to get rid of the constantly running loop fair enough, its probably over-complicating it. But using a 2.5 - 3.0 litre 4x4 to bring a plastic ball up a hill seems like a waste of money and fuel.

Its also a 1 in 3 slope. On a wet day a jeep is just not going to climb a 33% gradient. The tractor idea is the only feasible alternative I've seen here to some kind of fixed winch.

spideog7

Old tractor any old David Brown or Massey Ferguson, could be got for E600 and they run on fumes, fill it once a year Transport box, nothing fancy, bit of galvanised metal or ply wood attached to a three point link off a scrap farm instrument, E100. Ratchet Strap E10.

Turbulent Bill

apoeiguq3094y wrote: »

How is a Jeep cheap? you're talking a few grand for the inital cost, plus maintenance, then you also have insurance, maybe not for the road, but you're going to have to cover it for public liability.

With regard to the KISS comment. You could make a very simple winch with a motor. Just wind up the rope. If you want to get rid of the constantly running loop fair enough, its probably over-complicating it. But using a 2.5 - 3.0 litre 4x4 to bring a plastic ball up a hill seems like a waste of money and fuel.

Its also a 1 in 3 slope. On a wet day a jeep is just not going to climb a 33% gradient. The tractor idea is the only feasible alternative I've seen here to some kind of fixed winch.

I'm not going to drag this out any further (pardon the pun), but as I mentioned above there may be a requirement to carry people and equipment to and from the hill, i.e., a 4x4 might be needed anyway just for site access. In that case the initial price, insurance etc. are fixed costs so it makes sense to use the vehicle as much as possible, with a trailer to carry the Zorb. If fuel costs are excessive then use a quad with the same trailer for shuttling up and down the hill.

I'm guessing the 1:3 slope is the maximum gradient on the hill (the most fun in the Zorb), and that there are gentler slopes to the summit if traction is poor.

OP, plenty of ideas in this thread, let us know how you get on!