Travelling to the US with a criminal record

LegacyUser

I got into trouble with the law 10 years ago on a drugs related offence. I never went to jail but was given a stern warning (I was 24 at the time) and haven't even picked up a penalty point on my driving licence since. I've worked for large multi-national companies in the 10 years between and have never had any problems with my past, but recently I applied for a job with a US firm, based in Ireland, and the interview process has gone very well. So well, in fact, that they want to fly me to the US for the final interviews!

I'm amazed that they're going to these lengths to interview me but rather than be happy about it I'm nervous about getting into the country. I know I have to fill out a form related to the visa-waiver program, and in that form I have to give details of any run-in's I've had with the law. I have two options - lie about it and say I've been clean as a whistle or give them the details. Obviously lying about it will mean, if caught, I'll never be allowed into the US again. But by the same token will I be allowed in at all if I mention what happened?

Whatever I do, I need to do it quickly as I'll be heading over there within 2 weeks. My inclination is to tell them everything as the last thing I'd want to happen is for me to be barred from a country. At least if I tell them, I will know before making the trip whether I can make it into the country or not.

So I guess what I'm asking is if anybody out there with a criminal record has travelled to the US in the last 10 years and gone through the form-filling requirements and whether they have had any problems with it?

cheesey1

TraveltoUSA wrote: »

I got into trouble with the law 10 years ago on a drugs related offence. I never went to jail but was given a stern warning (I was 24 at the time) and haven't even picked up a penalty point on my driving licence since.

I've filled those forms in before and I'm pretty sure (not 100% as its been a about 2 years since I last filled one in) they only want to know if you have a criminal record. You say you were given a stern warning was it from the Courts or the Gardai? If you want to be sure check with your Gardai Station and explain to them why you need to know.

dudara

A criminal record means a conviction. Have you been convicted in court?

kmick

Contact the American embassy and explain your issue. You wont have to give them your name. Ask them what the likelyhood is of you being refused.

Dont tell your prospective employers just yet. If it were me I would organise a teleconference rather than take the risk of flying out without knowing if I will be stopped.

My twitch is if you tell them you have a drug conviction that will be the end of that.

dan_d

For starters, don't lie about it. They seem to have access to everyone's information anyway!

I think the last suggestion is best - contact the embassy in Dublin, and ask them what they think the story is.

LegacyUser

Yes, I was convicted, and given a stern warning, which replaced the jail time basically. As mentioned, I've been a good boy since and in fairness, I was hardly a scumbag beforehand, just doing the same stupid thing as the rest of my mates, with the exception of getting caught!

I wasn't sure if I would be able to speak to someone in the Embassy by just calling or whether I'd have to arrange to meet with them, but if I can make a phone call I think I'll try that as it's the safest option. Telling work is not an option as I can't imagine them thinking too highly of it, regardless of how long ago it happened or how highly they rate me.

Thanks.

Seriously, do not lie about it! They will almost definitely find out.

tbh

I talked to a guy I know who works for the immigration service in the states.

he said, to summarise:

-they are only looking to keep out people who pose a danger to the states and its citizens. If you were convicted for possession of a little hash, and it was a long time ago, you'll probably be ok - he stressed that that wasn't a guarantee, just in his experience. If it was more than five years ago and you didn't serve more than six months, your chances are good.

-tell the embassy first. The visa waiver asks if you have any convictions. You have. If they catch you lying, you're snookered. I asked how likely would it be that they'd catch you lying. He said "quite likely, esp. if it's drugs".

-Tell the embassy well in advance - the process can be slow.

hope that helps.

edit: sorry, forgot to add. He said that you may have to undergo a medical to get clearance. Obviously if you're doing anything you shouldn't be, you should stop doing it.

LostinKildare

OP, I believe US immigration distinguishes between felonies and misdemeanors when deciding whether to allow entry (I know they do for residency).

Is it right that Irish law doesn't use the same terms? Basically a felony, the more serious type, is a crime for which you could be sentenced to a year or more in jail. I know you said that you were only warned, but was jail time of 1+ years an option for the judge? If so the US will consider that a felony and you might be denied entry. A misdemeanor is any other type of crime and probably won't hurt you.

If you ring the US embassy you might ask them to confirm this policy.

HavingCrack

The US authorities take a very serious view of any drug related offenses due to their 'War on Drugs' obsession. I honestly can't say would yours affect you or not. It's probably best to ring the US embassy and ask.

Wisco

Ring the US Embassy, but plan well ahead of time to do anything as I'm pretty sure they have limited times that you can ring with general enquiries and you might not get through right away. Definitely don't lie, as I think you'd stand a good chance of being caught out.

LegacyUser

Ok, really appreciate the advice. Looks like calling the embassy is the way to go. I'm really nervous about it as I would really like this job and would hate the thought that something stupid I did 10 years ago would ruin my chances. I will hopefully get a chance to call them tomorrow so I'll let everyone know what they say!

LegacyUser

just back from the states last wk
flew with two mates both who had criminal records (one drugs in uk, one assault in ireland)
didnt mention it on visa waiver and got through just fine
they dont have access to foreign databases afaik

MrDarcy

TraveltoUSA wrote: »

I got into trouble with the law 10 years ago on a drugs related offence. I never went to jail but was given a stern warning (I was 24 at the time) and haven't even picked up a penalty point on my driving licence since. I've worked for large multi-national companies in the 10 years between and have never had any problems with my past, but recently I applied for a job with a US firm, based in Ireland, and the interview process has gone very well. So well, in fact, that they want to fly me to the US for the final interviews!

I'm amazed that they're going to these lengths to interview me but rather than be happy about it I'm nervous about getting into the country. I know I have to fill out a form related to the visa-waiver program, and in that form I have to give details of any run-in's I've had with the law. I have two options - lie about it and say I've been clean as a whistle or give them the details. Obviously lying about it will mean, if caught, I'll never be allowed into the US again. But by the same token will I be allowed in at all if I mention what happened?

Whatever I do, I need to do it quickly as I'll be heading over there within 2 weeks. My inclination is to tell them everything as the last thing I'd want to happen is for me to be barred from a country. At least if I tell them, I will know before making the trip whether I can make it into the country or not.

So I guess what I'm asking is if anybody out there with a criminal record has travelled to the US in the last 10 years and gone through the form-filling requirements and whether they have had any problems with it?

The only issue here OP is whether you were convicted of a crime or not. Did you get the probation act or were you convicted under the misuse of drugs act or another act?

jdivision

Tell them straight up. Why lie and risk deportation even if you get cleared initially

tenchi-fan

TraveltoUSA wrote: »

I got into trouble with the law 10 years ago on a drugs related offence. I never went to jail but was given a stern warning (I was 24 at the time)

Oh yes, the "stern warning"

Sorry, but what exactly happened? Were you arrested, charged or convicted (i.e. receive a fine in court)? Did you get some sort of official warning? Or did the garda just take the drugs off you and tell you to cop on (unlikely!)? If it's the latter I personally wouldn't mention it but anything else and I definitely would.

Slightly different but I know someone who applied for the guards. He got a driving conviction but never got it endorsed. He phoned the court and they had no record. He phoned the motor tax office and they had no record. So he figured it didn't really count. As a result he was told he wasn't a suitable candidate and when he asked for an explanation he was told "well we can't discuss your application, but let's just say honesty is the best policy!"

lonestargirl

Question B when you apply for the VWP is:

Have you ever been arrested or convicted for an offense or crime involving moral turpitude or a violation related to a controlled substance; or been arrested or convicted for two or more offences for which the aggregate sentance to confinement was 5 years or more; or been a conrolled substance trafficker, or are you seeking entry to engage in criminal or immoral activities?

As far as I can see the OP has to answer yes based on the section in italics above. I think it would be pretty silly to lie on the question since the OP is going for a job interview and if he is successful he will have to go to the embassy for that visa interview. Although I don't think H1Bs require police certs if his employer later goes on to sponsor him for a green card a background check will be required and this issue could come back to bite him.

What I would do:

• Apply for ESTA - if approved bring details of the conviction with you in case you are asked at the border. I think it goes in your favour the time since the offence and the fact that it seems to be a since incidence.
• If ESTA is denied apply to the US embassy for a B2 visitor's visa - this is a relatively strightforward procedure and again they will need details of your conviction etc.

tbh

lonestargirl wrote: »

Question B when you apply for the VWP is:

Have you ever been arrested or convicted for an offense or crime involving moral turpitude or a violation related to a controlled substance; or been arrested or convicted for two or more offences for which the aggregate sentance to confinement was 5 years or more; or been a conrolled substance trafficker, or are you seeking entry to engage in criminal or immoral activities?

As far as I can see the OP has to answer yes based on the section in italics above. I think it would be pretty silly to lie on the question since the OP is going for a job interview and if he is successful he will have to go to the embassy for that visa interview. Although I don't think H1Bs require police certs if his employer later goes on to sponsor him for a green card a background check will be required and this issue could come back to bite him.

What I would do:

• Apply for ESTA - if approved bring details of the conviction with you in case you are asked at the border. I think it goes in your favour the time since the offence and the fact that it seems to be a since incidence.
• If ESTA is denied apply to the US embassy for a B2 visitor's visa - this is a relatively strightforward procedure and again they will need details of your conviction etc.

the problem isn't with the ESTA really, it's with the visa. Irish citizens are entitled to a visa waiver, so don't need to apply for one before travelling. However, the OP is precluded from this as he has a conviction. Therefore, he has to apply for a visa in advance from the embassy.

My understanding was the job was here, but the interview was there, so don't think a green card is required.

tbh

tenchi-fan wrote: »

Oh yes, the "stern warning"

Sorry, but what exactly happened? Were you arrested, charged or convicted (i.e. receive a fine in court)? Did you get some sort of official warning? Or did the garda just take the drugs off you and tell you to cop on (unlikely!)?

.

TraveltoUSA wrote: »

Yes, I was convicted, and given a stern warning, which replaced the jail time basically.

lonestargirl

tbh wrote: »

the problem isn't with the ESTA really, it's with the visa. Irish citizens are entitled to a visa waiver, so don't need to apply for one before travelling. However, the OP is precluded from this as he has a conviction. Therefore, he has to apply for a visa in advance from the embassy.

There is a single petty offence exemption for the VWP, some people with one conviction are entitled to use it but I just checked and drugs convictions are not included so he should get a visa.

tbh wrote: »

My understanding was the job was here, but the interview was there, so don't think a green card is required.

Oops, missed that bit.

LegacyUser

Thanks again for all the info. I was hoping someone would have firsthand experience of this so thanks in particular to 'not important' and tbh. Due to the limited time I have to get everything in order for the interview, I can't go to the embassy as it could takes weeks or months, particularly as I will have to get records of my conviction. I need to get into the country for 2 days for this interview and may never have to travel back there again (while in the this job anyway) so I think my only option is to take my chances and try to tidy things up afterwards.

As mentioned I don't need a visa, just access to the country for 2 days, so fingers crossed.

tbh

Being honest with you op, if I was in your shoes, I'd probably do the same

LegacyUser

Are you sure you received a conviction? It sounds like you could be mistaken about this.
Judges usually throw out cases if they don't give any penalty beyond a warning.
Usually this is done using the probation act. In this case, a record is kept, because it can only be used once for any person. It is not a conviction, though it will show up in official records and can effect travel.
Some judges will throw out cases altogether, without using the probation act. This is very rare, but does happen. If this happens there will be no record at all and it won't effect travel.

LegacyUser

It was definitely a conviction. Having done quite a bit of research over the weekend it's possible that there is only a written record of it stored in some archived folder somewhere, and as it was a district court rather than circuit that's even more likely, and also because it was 10 years ago it could be quite difficult for anyone to dig up.

I guess I'll see next week!

I think you'll be fine OP. It was a long time ago and as you said is probably stored (lost) in some filing cabinet somewhere. After a certain amount of years your conviction gets wiped from your record anyway. I'm not sure how many that is but seeing as you didn't even serve time I'm sure you'll be fine.


I'm still unsure as to whether you have actually received a conviction. Sounds almost like you were given the probation act which is not a conviction and will not show up on your record.

tbh

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

After a certain amount of years your conviction gets wiped from your record anyway.

I'm not sure that's true - I think it's on the cards that that will happen, but I don't think that provision exists yet.

Mark27

No that provision of wiping your slate clean after a few years does not exist although as tbh mentioned it is being considered at the moment.

I seem to remember reading Mick Jagger was caught with a personal amount of cannabis 20 years ago and he still has to go through hell when he tries to get into the US because of it. They hate drugs so id be inclined to tell the truth. If you were done for dealing it, then id lie and say nothing. They definately wont let you in with a supply conviction

mgmt

Can you summit a Freedom of Information request to see what exactly is on your record, for future reference.

sideshowsue

OP, since no one has pointed it out yet, I think I had better do so. This is taken directly from the US Embassy in Dublin's website:

Criminal Convictions
Under United States visa law, people who have been arrested at anytime are required to declare the arrest when applying for a visa or when applying to enter the United States. If the arrest resulted in a conviction, the individual may be permanently ineligible to receive a visa. In order to travel, the applicant should apply for a visa and a waiver of the permanent ineligibility is required.

I draw your attention to the term 'arrested.' It doesn't matter whether you were convicted or not--your eligibility for the visa waiver programme is permanently compromised. Worse still, since you were [possibly?] convicted for a drug offence, this further compromises your record with US Immigration authorities.

Now, as someone has already unwisely suggested, you certainly can chance it and try travelling to the US and simply not declare the arrest/conviction, but what you risk down the road is anything from a 10-year to a permanent BAN from the US should the Immigration get wind of the fact that you lied on your landing card.

Of course, the chances of Immigration actually finding out are marginal, but let's say in the unknown future you apply for a long-stay visa to the US, well, you are totally screwed. 1. The prior arrest/conviction will show up on your record and 2. The fact that you lied to enter the US under the VWP by ticking 'No' to 'Ever been arrested/convicted etc. is going to mean that you're incurring a lengthy travel ban to the US.

LegacyUser

You see, this is my dilema. Perhaps if I'd expected to be travelling to the US at some stage I could have prepared for it, but I wasn't expecting to travel there and particularly at such short notice. I realise I'm running a huge risk of being banned from ever travelling there again, but I'm willing to take that risk for this job, particularly if I don't have to travel there again. This is a concern as the fact that they're willing to fly me there for an interview probably means they've no issue spending the money and it could come up again, but I'm hoping I'll be too busy over here for them to consider that.

This is a big opportunity for me, but instead of looking forward to it I'm nervous about it the whole time thanks to what I did before. If I get through initially I will go about trying to make amends somehow, perhaps admitting to the embassy that I lied when going through to see if there's anything that can be done.

Thanks again to everyone.

Lemming

TraveltoUSA wrote: »

This is a big opportunity for me, but instead of looking forward to it I'm nervous about it the whole time thanks to what I did before. If I get through initially I will go about trying to make amends somehow, perhaps admitting to the embassy that I lied when going through to see if there's anything that can be done.

I'm not so sure the US government will look kindly on your admission of lying to them. Immigration control is not a trivial matter, and for the US of all nations, a very serious matter indeed - doubly so when you factor in post-911 paranoia.

Look at it from their perspective; easier to simply tell you to never come back as you've shown yourself to be completely untrustworthy when asked a simple question.

The company in question will also no doubt either drop you like a hot coal or have you sidelined until you quit (assuming you get the job) when they discover that they can't rely on you to travel to the US (assuming it's needed) for any sort of training or work related purposes since you've been barred for lying on an official form.

Techno Mick

I was wondering how the op got on, did they get into the US?

LegacyUser

As it turns out I got lucky. Rather than fly me to the US, they had a couple of people come over to perform the final interviews this week. I know that travel to the US is now a definite, though at least I've managed to postpone it for a while at least - this is of course assuming I get the job!

I'm now going about getting the relevant information together to allow me to apply for the visa, though have to make a big call about taking the job (again I could be jumping the gun here) because if I don't get the visa I'll probably be out of a job, whereas it's not an issue for my existing job. This hasn't been an enjoyable experience and will remain like that until I find out whether I am successful with the visa application or not, but things are a little better than when I originally posted.

Dr. Zeus

OP,

Be careful here. The US establishment has a very conservative attitude to drugs, believe me I know. Having spent a large part of my life in the US after a certain age even having a few beers can be frowned upon. It's certainly very different to here.

If you do tell the company I am pretty sure they won't hire you. They mightn't say that's the reason but they will find another reason not to hire you. Could be wrong but that's my feeling esp. in the current climate where they could find someone else with no record.

If you don't tell them and get into the States and get the job and they ever find out they will fire you on the spot. Some would even go so far as to sue you for lying - it;s the land of litigation after all. If you did pull the wool over their eyes would you not be in a constant state of paranoia about them finding out?

magneticimpulse

Im quite surprised if its a US company that the company itself has not done a crimminal check on you. Its quite standard procedure to check you out when they offer you a job.

Usually you have to sign a form that gives them the right to access any personal information on you. This usually means contacting the places where you studied and ensuring the grades and qualification is what you got.

It can also mean checking your crimminal record. Being a US company this would be important, like you said if they intent to fly you out there from time to time.

So you might have got away with it now...but it might come up again so be prepared if they ask you to fill in the form with your signature. I think alot of US companies I worked for ran this check.

Dr. Zeus

Also, OP lying to US immigration is pretty much a federal offense in the US. Major deal. They take people into custody for lying about their address.


They have always taken their role very seriously and even more so since 9-11 as another poster has pointed out.

Having been found out lying to US immigration and a drug conviction could be a disaster for your career in other countries!

Think long and hard about this and be very careful. When you book airline tickets now to the US I am pretty sure they check you name on their terrorist and most wanted list. I don't think they check for criminal offenses but you never know these days. Who know what info they have access to. They probably know what library books you checked out over the course of your life!

LegacyUser

I agree with regards to telling them - they won't hire me if I do. I'm also aware of the fact that if they did a check on me I'd be found out, but (and this is where I'm taking another risk) the Irish branch of the business is very small (for the time being) and they don't even have a local HR presence. People in the US cannot get access to crimial records of people, like myself, so I should be ok on that front.

My main worry is getting to the US. If I get my visa, which may be along shot, I reckon I'll be ok. Otherwise I reckon I'll be another name on the unemployed list

magneticimpulse

Yes they can have access to your criminal record and other personal details from the US. From personal experience, US companies based in the UK were able to access all my data from Ireland. I know because they had a few questions for me to clear up and i was surprised at just how much info they got on me.

I also worked for another company in California and they checked out my info. They are very strict about the application process.

You will be found out...and the longer you act like you can pull the wool over the companies eyes, they will retract any contract offer made to you. The more you lie and think they cant find out, the more this company wont be impressed when it does find out. Just because the HR is not in Ireland, they must have some representative, as otherwise you would not have gotten this far in the application process and there must be some person who deals with contracts, and payments of employees.