Bus Driver Rant

bonerm

Moved from another thread
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055673480

/rant from who run in with a bus-driving wanker this morning who no doubt has driven off now thinking the world is to blame for all his woes .... and not the fact that he manage to be audibly rude to 2 other passengers all in the space of about 30mins :mad:

AlekSmart

Bonerm posted....

/Rant from who run in with a bus-driving wanker this morning who no doubt has driven off now thinking the world is to blame for all his woes .... and not the fact that he manage to be audibly rude to 2 other passengers all in the space of about 30mins

Mind you,there`s good enough reason to ask for further details of this,given how this incident managed to arouse such a thorough understanding of the Busdrivers phsyche.

bonerm

AlekSmart wrote: »

Bonerm posted....

Mind you,there`s good enough reason to ask for further details of this,given how this incident managed to arouse such a thorough understanding of the Busdrivers phsyche.

Yes. It was an overreaction on my part in that earlier post and I apologise.

As to the driver I reckon I got off lightly.

When I got on this morning I stated "€1.80 please" and dropped my coins in the slot as I do every morning. As you'd expect the guy usually presses a button and out pops the ticket. Not on this occasion however. On this occasion the guy just sat there staring into space. I let this go for about 10-15 seconds and just said "€1.80 please" again thinking maybe he didn't hear me first time. I honestly said nothing more & nothing less than that. At this the guy just looked away from me with a face on him and grumbled "I heard ya the first time!" in a tone that I could only describe as threatening and finally managed to press a button. I was a bit surprised but I decided to just ignore it and just go to my seat.

About 2/3rds thru the journey he manages to stop the bus on the quays for 5-10 mins for no apparent reason and then resumed the journey.

Then as I neared my destination we went past a bus-stop where even I could see from upstairs that there was a guy there wishing to get on. As the bus approached the man was looking towards the bus and had walked up to the kerb / yellow pole (which would indicate to me at least that he wanted to get on). However the bus just went right past him. For all his flying down the road the bus-driver got caught in traffic less than a hundred yards ahead and the customer/skull/passenger (whatever you guys call them) was able to catch up and tried to get on the bus stating that the bus didn't stop for him. The driver went ballistic at this and started shouting that he wasn't at the stop and/or hadn't put his hand up, even tho even I could see by his motion and positioning to beside the pole that this man wanted to get on and was in position. The driver then told him to walk up to the next stop and he'd let him on (a maneuver that I know from seeing other people try that they would not have reached by the time the bus had made it there). It was ridiculous stuff and the fella on the street more or less told him to go to hell (not a quote) with that idea and just walked off missing his bus rather than put up with the bull****.

Finally as I was getting off I heard him making some snide comment to a passenger who was getting on.

Hense my comments regarding the drivers mind-state that you so sarcastically chose to refer to above. This wasn't a driver being hassled by drunken scumbags or whatever it is that usually gets drivers dander up. Either something at home was bugging him or he was just being a prick for the sake of it. Either way I think it was uncalled for him to start taking it out on people and that's all I have to say about that.

Cookie_Monster

Why would you expect the bus to stop unless you put your hand out though.

And why did the driver even open thee door at the lights, that's not allowed.

So both in the wrong there

bonerm

To give you what I had, I was upstairs on the LHS. I could see the man on the street. I heard the driver clearly (esp his shouting) and to a lesser extent the man as the driver opened the doors. I could not see the doors opened but I could hear the man on the street somewhat so the doors were most likely opened. I reckon the driver was gonna let him on but then barred him when he took umbridge.

The man on the street had the first words and clearly had issue with the driver not stopping for him and said so in a fairly relaxed tone. Then I could hear the driver shouting and he said his bit. The man on the street argued this (but not shouting) and then walked off as the driver talked of going to the next stop. The bus then departed.

I was upstairs (so I didn't have the full picture of this incident) but from my earlier experience with the driver, the clear passing by this guy and the shouting he was doing I could tell he was not on the ball wrt to doing his job.

meanmachine3

without going into quoting this that and the other. as cookie quite rightly states if the in-tending passneger did not have his hand out or to a degree did not give the driver enough notice that he wanted that bus, the driver was right in what he did in passing. we often get people who literally put their hands out as the bus is passing or i should say the doors are parallel with them and expect us to stop. someone stepping out to the stop is no good at all. i used to pull into stops where people have done that only to be waved on.they may want another bus , taxi which if often the case. so now unless i am given ample notice that someone wants to get on or get of for that matter i will not stop.
can i ask you boner. when you tenered your fare was the driver distracted in another way. what i mean by this was he talking to the radio, was there a message being sent/passed over the radio in some way shape or form. again personally i will not deal with a passneger if this happens. i will ask them to wait and point to the radio.

bonerm

No the fella was doing nothing when I asked him for the 180. He wasn't even on the phone or reading his newspaper for instance. It was like he was in a different world at that time.

I got a bad vibe off the guy right away and unlike everyone else upstairs wasn't even that surprised when I heard him shouting at the fella on the street subsequently.

M.J.M.C

Its embarrassing to witness this kinda thing on a bus...

In all my years getting the bus, 9 out of 10 drivers are great.

If i was you, i'd have just made a complaint to Dublin Bus.
Making comments at passengers is going to go undisciplined unless DB HQ know about it.

bonerm

What's the point tho? I couldn't see them doing anything about it and for all I know I report a story like that and soon enough all the bits are pieced together and suddenly I'm identified as some troublemaker on that route. A route I that I have to use everyday.

In fairness this is probably one notable incident out of 100, and whilst I've never seen a driver performing anything approaching a civic duty*, the majority of the time I just pay my money and get from A to B in peace .

Now, I didn't recognise the guy so I don't think he's one of the regular drivers on my route. Hopefully I'll never see him again. I was writing here as much to vent at anyone who'd listen as anything else. Best & unlikely outcome would be the off chance the driver might read this, recognise the incident, realise he was being a prick and cop the fcuk on next time.

(* actually a lie = once saw a driver perform a task that I could describe as commendable. Interestingly the guy wasn't Irish and further I never saw him again driving. Coincidence I'm sure.)

devnull

The trouble is even if you do ring HQ nothing is done about it, for example the 6.50 38C bus to City Centre that a friend travels on every morning has the driver smoking every morning without fail, yet Dublin Bus always fob people off with excuses, and the next day he's back doing the very same thing.

According to HQ it is a Harristown bus, but Harristown refuse to acknowledge this fact because it is not there. This is despite the fact that the bus is a 2007 model VT almost every morning, the only models of that type and that year are based in Phibsboro. According to Phibsboro, it isn't one of their drivers so there is nothing they can do about it,

HQ say they have referred it to Harristown's operation manager, but then we find out from them there is nothing they can do, because it is not their bus, but HQ are so 100% sure that they could not be wrong (god forbid) that they won't even try and accept what they have been saying or actually engage with the garage it is happening from.

Same with the 236 timetable, wrong for over 2 years now, however once again HQ keep telling me that it is right, and I should stop spreading untruths, because once again, they can't actually believe that they could possibly be wrong. This kind of attitude needs to be eradicated from Dublin Bus, along with the self gratification that goes on in other areas.

AlekSmart

Bonerm posted.....

I've never seen a driver performing anything approaching a civic duty*

......Qualified,for some reason,by.....

(* actually a lie = once saw a driver perform a task that I could describe as commendable. Interestingly the guy wasn't Irish and further I never saw him again driving. Coincidence I'm sure.)

It`s some time ago now,but to some people it still might count ?

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2001/0130/01013000043.html

Perhaps equally interestingly,this particular Driver appears to be Irish...;)

In the context of the original issue which Bonerm appears to have had with the Driver,it is perhaps worth noting the wording on the new white-on-blue plate affixed to the Autofare machine...."Please state your destination to the Driver"

This has now been supplemented by a staff-notice from the Operations Department to all Drivers advising them that where a boarding passenger fails to State their Destination,the Driver should request that information in order to issue the correct fare.

Perhaps this may have had an impact on the original scenario ?

About 2/3rds thru the journey he manages to stop the bus on the quays for 5-10 mins for no apparent reason and then resumed the journey.

This does sound unreasonable unless there was some problem,and even then a PA announcement would have defused the situation for many.

Then as I neared my destination we went past a bus-stop where even I could see from upstairs that there was a guy there wishing to get on. As the bus approached the man was looking towards the bus and had walked up to the kerb / yellow pole (which would indicate to me at least that he wanted to get on).

I`d have to differ on this one...I think the wording in the Points of Bus Law section of the Timetable Book makes some reference to "A clear signal,given in good time".

There are many stops,particularly if served by multiple routes where intending passengers would be expected to signal their intention.
If,however,the Stop in question was served by a single route then yes,I might take the indication as you did.

Also,for example,there are still a few "Set Down Only" Stops whose purpose is self-descriptive.

Yet I would quite regularly see people standing at these stops fully expecting Buses to stop and being somewhat surprised when they do not....I have on many occassions stopped at such places and always ask the Passenger concerned to read back what it says on the Stop headplate.....Invariably I will be asked..."What does that mean"...:)

(a maneuver that I know from seeing other people try that they would not have reached by the time the bus had made it there).

Is this a location where occurences such as Bonerm describes happen regularly ?
If so,is there a design/location issue with that particular Stop,perhaps located too close to a Traffic Signal array ?

Hense my comments regarding the drivers mind-state that you so sarcastically chose to refer to above. This wasn't a driver being hassled by drunken scumbags or whatever it is that usually gets drivers dander up. Either something at home was bugging him or he was just being a prick for the sake of it. Either way I think it was uncalled for him to start taking it out on people and that's all I have to say about that.

No sarcasm at all.

It`s one thing to factually report upon an occurrence,but the veracity of that report tends to suffer when one suddenly makes judgement calls based upon a somewhat limited opportunity to assess the character of another person,even if that be a Busdriver.

States of Mind are constantly changing elements,for everybody,including Busdrivers and those who observe them....

No the fella was doing nothing when I asked him for the 180. He wasn't even on the phone or reading his newspaper for instance. It was like he was in a different world at that time.

I got a bad vibe off the guy right away and unlike everyone else upstairs wasn't even that surprised when I heard him shouting at the fella on the street subsequently.

If the OP has a sustainable complaint then it deserves to be addressed,however I remain of the opinion that adding less quantifiable elements such as pre-existing "Bad Vibes" or proffessing knowledge of what "everyone else upstairs" is thinking only serves to place an asterisk (*) beside the entire event as described.

angel01

I have made complaints recently and noone takes it seriously in HQ, they keep promising that people from either HQ or the garage will ring me but you get no call so I have no option but to use an alternative service as I refuse to get the route that I had an issue with.

DB refuse to take complaints seriously in my opinion. :mad:

scorpioishere

bonerm wrote: »

Yes. It was an overreaction on my part in that earlier post and I apologise.

As to the driver I reckon I got off lightly.

When I got on this morning I stated "€1.80 please" and dropped my coins in the slot as I do every morning. As you'd expect the guy usually presses a button and out pops the ticket. Not on this occasion however. On this occasion the guy just sat there staring into space. I let this go for about 10-15 seconds and just said "€1.80 please" again thinking maybe he didn't hear me first time. I honestly said nothing more & nothing less than that. At this the guy just looked away from me with a face on him and grumbled "I heard ya the first time!" in a tone that I could only describe as threatening and finally managed to press a button. I was a bit surprised but I decided to just ignore it and just go to my seat.

About 2/3rds thru the journey he manages to stop the bus on the quays for 5-10 mins for no apparent reason and then resumed the journey.

Then as I neared my destination we went past a bus-stop where even I could see from upstairs that there was a guy there wishing to get on. As the bus approached the man was looking towards the bus and had walked up to the kerb / yellow pole (which would indicate to me at least that he wanted to get on). However the bus just went right past him. For all his flying down the road the bus-driver got caught in traffic less than a hundred yards ahead and the customer/skull/passenger (whatever you guys call them) was able to catch up and tried to get on the bus stating that the bus didn't stop for him. The driver went ballistic at this and started shouting that he wasn't at the stop and/or hadn't put his hand up, even tho even I could see by his motion and positioning to beside the pole that this man wanted to get on and was in position. The driver then told him to walk up to the next stop and he'd let him on (a maneuver that I know from seeing other people try that they would not have reached by the time the bus had made it there). It was ridiculous stuff and the fella on the street more or less told him to go to hell (not a quote) with that idea and just walked off missing his bus rather than put up with the bull****.

Finally as I was getting off I heard him making some snide comment to a passenger who was getting on.

Hense my comments regarding the drivers mind-state that you so sarcastically chose to refer to above. This wasn't a driver being hassled by drunken scumbags or whatever it is that usually gets drivers dander up. Either something at home was bugging him or he was just being a prick for the sake of it. Either way I think it was uncalled for him to start taking it out on people and that's all I have to say about that.

He's definetely a weirdo

bonerm

Hi Aleksmart. Thanks for your reply. I don't want to get into an endless chop-and-quote discussion with you on the matter as I've said pretty much all I want need to say. However with a view to your opinion as to the veracity of my account highlighted by reference to "bad vibes" and "everyone was thinking" I would just like to say I that I feel you are just quibbling semantics for the sake of it.

So just to clear up:

Everyone surprised = every single person in my line of sight at least moving their body position in their seat at the exact instant this shouting began.

Bad Vibes = Reaction you get to a driver who has spent several seconds staring into space and grumbling at you in a hostile tone.

AlekSmart

Hello Bonerm.

I`m not particularly into the chop & quote aspect of things either,but in some cases,particularly where the issue could cost an individual their job,the entire issue often hinges on what you might call semantics.

I`m not in any way defending the particular driver or what you percieve as his attitude towards you.
I`m attempting to get across an insight into what the world looks and sounds like from the other side of the plexiglass.

There are so many variables in force,in human nature,operational and mechanical terms that quite often the lines get blurred as outside
forces impact on the Drivers behaviour as much as a passengers.

I`ve often felt that introducing a "Buddy System" similar to many American Law Enforcement Agencies where members of the public get to accompany Officers on a shift would perhaps be of value in many other public facing occupations.

I`n this particular case I would not necessarily see any direct correlation between your negative initial personal experience and subsequent events you partially witnessed.

A typical Busdrivers day can be comprised of many different and highly charged incidents inside and outside the Bus.
It can,and more often is, comprised of the normal,dull,uninspiring stuff-of-life which most of us class as existing.

Perhaps Scorpioishere is correct ...

He's definetely a weirdo

...and then again perhaps some of the "rest of the world" are weirdo`s also...Busdriving,of itself,is not the sole preserve of the weird.

bonerm

could cost an individual their job,the entire issue often hinges on what you might call semantics.

If it does end up costing him his job it won't be because of me. For one thing I've calmed down (I wrote the initial post in anger) and for another I don't believe pursuing the matter would lead to anything anyway.

I can accept the fella was may having a bad day and deciding to take it out on punters. All I'll not accept was the idea that anything in his immediate vicinity was causing these behaviours or also that what I'm reporting here didn't happen as I reported them.

AlekSmart

I can accept the fella was may having a bad day and deciding to take it out on punters. All I'll not accept was the idea that anything in his immediate vicinity was causing these behaviours or also that what I'm reporting here didn't happen as I reported them.

That sounds like a reasonable conclusion to proceedings ?

foggy_lad

the driver was probably hung over after a heavy night before? this would surely account for the staring into space and short temper etc.

AlekSmart

The Taoiseach was probably hung over after a heavy night before? this would surely account for the staring into space and short temper etc.

There y`are Foggy_Lad...Fixed that for you so that it is an equally reasonable proposition

droidus

Sounds very like a driver I had issues with a few years back. Big guy, short sandy hair, surly, uncommunicative, dangerously vacant look in his eyes... First ran into him on the 39X in Stoneybatter. Monday morning 8:30 am, get on the bus heading into town. He tells me I cant get on because the bus is full. I look around and there's one person standing and several empty seats. I reply that the bus obviously isnt full, he tells me again that I cant get on and he wont move until I get off the bus. I was a bit under the weather after an operation and it was my first day back in work so I just got off the bus instead of arguing, but I made a complaint afterwards when I realised what had happened.

A few months later and this guy shows up driving the 5:15 39X from UCD, pretty sure he recognises me, but I say nothing and pretend it never happened, I notice over time that as I get on the bus, other people often ask him if it goes through the city centre. I also notice him repeatedly ignoring them or telling them no - which I know to be a lie, so on occassion I would tell other passengers in front of him that yes, it does go to the city centre. I also reported this to Dublin bus.

So one day I get on and theres a new, photocopied sign on his window sayin 'limited stops only'. I ask him if the route has changed - no reply. I ask again - no reply. Im conscious of people behind me at this stage so I ask again, he mumbles a 'no' without turning to face me. This has taken about 2 minutes at this stage and I was pretty pissed off so I replied 'thanks for doing your fecking job' and walk to the back of the bus and sit down, he leaps out of his seat, chases me down the bus and confronts me, red faced, veins bulging, telling me to get off his bus. I refused. he threatens to call the guards, I tell him to go ahead. 3 other passengers start protesting that hes behaving very aggressively, he ignores them and tells me to 'get off his ****ing bus' because I 'verbally abused' him. I stayed in my seat and refused telling him he's just done the same thing. Im pretty certain he would've punched me if there'd been no witnesses.

So he gets back in his cab and drives off. I get off in the city centre, fairly shaken by the confrontation. I reported it to DB the next day who apologised unreservedly, and the driver was moved off the route, though Ive seen him on another bus on Westmoreland st.

And might I add, Im not the confrontational type. I cycle a lot these days, but Ive been getting 4 buses a day everyday for about 7 years and have been a customer of Dublin Bus for over 20 years and this is the only serious confrontation I have ever had with a driver, most of whom I have a lot of respect for.

This guy was just a psycho, and I fear for his passengers if hes still driving a bus. Watch out!

Goonerette

I wonder if it's the same guy I had a run-in with a few years ago. The description of his physical and mental state droidus provided sure sounds familiar. I want to just preface this by saying that this isn't meant as a rant against bus drivers in general, 99% of whom are grand in my experience.

One night I was heading home from UCD. It was after 9pm, dark, mid-winter. The driver looked dangerously agitated when I got on and was speeding recklessly and driving quite aggressively, even passing through a red light once. He also skipped a couple of stops for no reason even though the people hailed him in reasonable time.

I was on the top deck. As we were approaching my stop, I rang the bell and then slowly attempted to make my way down the stairs with a laptop bag and another bag as he was speeding along a long straight road with a very uneven surface, making the bus practically jump up and down. He was driving much faster than any other driver ever on that road. As I made it downstairs in one piece, thankful I didn't break my neck, I realised he wasn't stopping. He came to a stop seconds later at the traffic lights. It was then that I meekly said "sorry, I thought I rang the bell there". He turned around slowly with this psychotic expression on his face and started screaming, and I mean screaming, "AFTER THE STOP, SWEETHEART! NOT GOOD ENOUGH! NOT GOOD ENOUGH! YOU'RE MEANT TO RING IT BEFORE THE STOP, SWEETIE!"

I didn't say anything as I was really scared. I honestly thought he was going to hit me. I figured I may have been in the wrong since it was dark and it was hard to see, but having lived on the same road for years and travelled on the same bus every day I was sure I pressed it in time. Even at that, his reaction was totally OTT. Anyway, I just said "it's ok, the next stop is fine" and then he suddenly decided to open the door for me at the lights. When I got off, he left the door open for a while continuing to scream and berate me as I was walking away.

:eek:

foggy_lad

why or how would a driver like this not be noticed and taken off the road for safety of the passengers and the general public?

AlekSmart

Droidus posted...

Sounds very like a driver I had issues with a few years back.

Goonerette posted...

I wonder if it's the same guy I had a run-in with a few years ago.

Both of these posters describe,in my view,some atrocious behaviour by any driver.

I`m glad though that both posters are still able to differentiate between the actions of these individuals and the greater body of Busdrivers,many of whom are not phsychopathic in nature.

Goonerette-

This isn't meant as a rant against bus drivers in general, 99% of whom are grand in my experience.

Droidus-

Have been a customer of Dublin Bus for over 20 years and this is the only serious confrontation I have ever had with a driver, most of whom I have a lot of respect for.

As a Busdriver I appreciate these remarks in the midst of a very nasty tale indeed.

I am equally glad that at least Droidus did report the incident and thereby ensure that some form of action was taken to ensure it would not reoccur.
( Its worth noting that even if you seen the particular individual on another route sometime later,the intervening period could well have seen disciplinary and corrective procedures being pursued against the individual)

Foggy_Lad asks....

Why or how would a driver like this not be noticed and taken off the road for safety of the passengers and the general public?

In Droidus`s case I would suggest that is exactly what happened,subsequent to him making a rapid factually based complaint to the company.

I`d be fairly certain that a verifable complaint of that nature would see definite action and with any luck it would have had the desired positive effect.

SickCert

AlekSmart wrote: »

Droidus posted...

Goonerette posted...


Both of these posters describe,in my view,some atrocious behaviour by any driver.

I`m glad though that both posters are still able to differentiate between the actions of these individuals and the greater body of Busdrivers,many of whom are not phsychopathic in nature.

Goonerette-

Droidus-

As a Busdriver I appreciate these remarks in the midst of a very nasty tale indeed.

I am equally glad that at least Droidus did report the incident and thereby ensure that some form of action was taken to ensure it would not reoccur.
( Its worth noting that even if you seen the particular individual on another route sometime later,the intervening period could well have seen disciplinary and corrective procedures being pursued against the individual)

Foggy_Lad asks....

In Droidus`s case I would suggest that is exactly what happened,subsequent to him making a rapid factually based complaint to the company.

I`d be fairly certain that a verifable complaint of that nature would see definite action and with any luck it would have had the desired positive effect.

Young Alek, it sounds like the guy that produced the laminated card with 'i dont know' on one side then 'leave me alone' on the other side. Gone some months now im told.

Theres so much evidence held on a bus these days (CCTV) so report it. Dont mind simple stuff but, Shaun of the dead style drivers should be gone.

foggy_lad

SickCert wrote: »

Young Alek, it sounds like the guy that produced the laminated card with 'i dont know' on one side then 'leave me alone' on the other side. Gone some months now im told.

Theres so much evidence held on a bus these days (CCTV) so report it. Dont mind simple stuff but, Shaun of the dead style drivers should be gone.

the simple stuff can ruin a passengers day even more than the psycho stuff as it can be harder to understand how anyone can be that way and continue to work in the job if they are that unhappy.

bonerm

foggy_lad wrote: »

the simple stuff can ruin a passengers day

Agreed. Evidence is this thread only even exists because some driver was pissing a passenger off (ie me) with his attitude.

I don't think anyone expects drivers to be all sunshine and lollypops every morning but I'd hope they'd realise that (just like when they don't provide a service ie turn up late or even not at all!) that when they behave badly it often has a domino effect across the city for the rest of the day as a result. If the driver can't manage to even be civil then just stay home or better still get another job.

antoinolachtnai

Please be kind to your bus drivers if at all possible.

There is actually a lot to do and a lot to think about. As well as driving, a driver also has to play the role of a customer service supervisor, dealing solo with a couple of hundred people a day, a safety officer, a bookkeeper and every so often a general purpose problem solver.

I think some people get sort of fed up with it and it's understandable. The job isn't really appreciated much. The things people get upset about can seem very strange. For some drivers, dealing with issuing tickets and lots of different passengers can be quite draining. The rules management makes (such as the 'state your destination' rule) can also seem very strange.

This is why it is very important to be nice to your bus driver if you can. All that stuff about saying thank you and good bye, it does help. Also, if your driver is in a bad mood, don't take it personally. He may just be having a bad day.

That doesn't excuse bad behaviour of course, and a driver causing unnecessary delays for passengers is not something that should happen.

devnull

Thankfully on my everday routes, I have never had a problem with a driver, most of all they are normally nice, helpful and polite, but some routes tend to have more than their fair share of bad apples who just look for any reason to argue with passengers.

bonerm

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

I think some people get sort of fed up with it and it's understandable. The job isn't really appreciated much. The things people get upset about can seem very strange. For some drivers, dealing with issuing tickets and lots of different passengers can be quite draining. The rules management makes (such as the 'state your destination' rule) can also seem very strange.

I was cited earlier for this and I would like to explain that I won't adhere to the "state your destination" rule because I reckon there would be inconsistency on the fares.

I remember when I started getting buses I'd ask for a fare to a particular street from the same start point and depending on the driver I'd end up getting quoted/charged different rates. This is why I soon stopped this practice and to just paying 180 or whatever it was back then and not saying where I was going.

It's easier and quicker to just ask for a fare you know is right and leave it at that. Until this thread I didn't even realise it was an issue for drivers (or at least their managment).

devnull

Unfortunately I can confirm what bonerm is right, there are drivers out there, particularly on some of the routes from the southside who think it is there place to decide what is an appropriate fare is for a particular journey.

There is one guy going around who believes that the 50c fair is "Too Low" so he refused to issue it to me on a number of occasions in the past, and has told me that I would have to pay €1.15 as this is more appropriate for the journey.

I've also had the previously mentioned attitude of, "Ah, Jaysus, thats just a few stops, can't ya walk?"

bonerm

devnull wrote: »

There is one guy going around who believes that the 50c fair is "Too Low" so he refused to issue it to me on a number of occasions in the past, and has told me that I would have to pay €1.15 as this is more appropriate for the journey.

Actually on that point the 50c "city centre fare" is another joke. I used it successfully 3 times from a particular stop before getting turfed off a bus on the 4th occasion because suddenly "I wasn't in the zone" to avail of it.

I really wish someone would design a 100% clear zone/staging map for the city and let punters finally understand the mystery that is Dublin Bus fare pricing.

meanmachine3

droidus wrote: »

This guy was just a psycho, and I fear for his passengers if hes still driving a bus. Watch out!

jasus i thought i was the only psycho in the job, now i'm really disappointed

bonerm wrote: »

I remember when I started getting buses I'd ask for a fare to a particular street from the same start point and depending on the driver I'd end up getting quoted/charged different rates. This is why I soon stopped this practice and to just paying 180 or whatever it was back then and not saying where I was going.

boner your better of sticking to the state your destionation notice on the autofare.
as for you quote above, i'd say you actully got two fare quotes .one being the actual fare and the other being at the drivers discreation. i've done it lots of times before and will continue to do it. e.g. you could board a bus and ask the driver the fare and he'd quote the actual fare of €2.20 it's all the do with the stage structure(€2.20 up to the end of stage 61 inbound) but then at the next stop the stage would change (stage 62 in bound) and the fare would come down to €1.80. i would always make allowances for 1-2 stops either side of those stages.

meanmachine3

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Please be kind to your bus drivers if at all possible.

There is actually a lot to do and a lot to think about. As well as driving, a driver also has to play the role of a customer service supervisor, dealing solo with a couple of hundred people a day, a safety officer, a bookkeeper and every so often a general purpose problem solver.

I think some people get sort of fed up with it and it's understandable. The job isn't really appreciated much. The things people get upset about can seem very strange. For some drivers, dealing with issuing tickets and lots of different passengers can be quite draining. The rules management makes (such as the 'state your destination' rule) can also seem very strange.

This is why it is very important to be nice to your bus driver if you can. All that stuff about saying thank you and good bye, it does help. Also, if your driver is in a bad mood, don't take it personally. He may just be having a bad day.

That doesn't excuse bad behaviour of course, and a driver causing unnecessary delays for passengers is not something that should happen.

could'nt have put it better myself antoin. you would'nt believe the difference that a polite passenger makes to your day. something as simple as saying thanks actually puts drivers in good form and it makes them know they're doing their job well and good.

AlekSmart

Golly,I do hope Bonerm does`nt regard my comments concerning the "Statement of Intended Destination" rule as " citing" him in any way.

Most passengers are blissfully unaware of the Fare/Stage system operated by Dublin Bus.

In reality the Fare/Stage system is as old as Public Transport itself and when operated correctly is a very flexible and accurate method of charging for a journey made.

HOWEVER.....as it is curently operated within Dublin Bus it resembles nothing more than a total-shambles of a system leading to endless and increasingly bad humoured confrontational situations between Staff and Passengers.

Up until the Dublin Bus rebranding into their "Yellow Phase" all Fare Stages were clearly marked for the intending Passenger (and Drivers) to see.

The actual fare regime is relatively simple.

Stages 1 to 3 @ €1.15
Stages 4 to 7 @ €1.60
Stages 8 to13 @ €1.80
Over 13 @ €2.20

( NB,and its an Important NB: a passenger boarding or alighting between Stage Points is charged from the Preceeding stage to the Subsequent stage)

This is hugely relevant to this discussion as it is here that the actual knowledge of a Stage location becomes important.
For example a passenger boarding between stages 18 + 19 and alighting between stsges 21 + 22 is liable for a fare of €1.60,the journey charged as between 18 and 22,four stages.

However as some of you are pointing out it is quite difficult for a Passenger to identify any given Stage Point IF the company has gone to some considerable pains to erase all stage markings on their system (With the exception of a rare few stops which escaped the obliteration programme)

I have raised the issue at both managerial and operational levels and as yet have not recieved an explanation as to why a company would seek to encourage mis/disinformation as to it`s own services.

I have been advised that intending passengers can refer to the timetable and that in the event of a dispute the Driver should produce their copy and outline the relevant information to the disgruntled passenger.


Added to this is the reality that the Stage Locations given in the Timetable are often of the most ambiguous and usually at locations where the fare difference is of the higher order....€1.15 vs €1.60.

This incredible situation could have been totally avoided by simply reapplying the removed Stage Markings,but instead the Company now requires it`s Drivers to assume a more confrontational approach to those passengers who have had the relevant information denied to them.

The extension of this highly dubious tactic is also referenced in this thread with the City-Centre Fare remarks.

Here we have what should have been a very simple situation with clearly defined boundaries, turned into a total hames with never ending opportunities for tired and emotional arguement which,all too easily descends into the makings of High-Court actions.

For example the CC Fare as advertised, exists between St Stephens Green and Parnell Square West.
On routes 10,11,46A,145 for example there is only a single stop on St Stephens Green North.
However,I would regularly have pasengers boarding at Leeson St asking for a CC Fare who are travelling to Dorset St.

I would advise these passengers that the CC Fare would not apply,only to have my self branded a liar and cheat when the passenger exits at Dorset St/Synnot Place to be greeted by,not one,but two plates attached to the shelter reading......"END OF CITY CENTRE FARE ZONE".

Seeing this information so clearly presented,the same passenger,not unrealistically,assumes that when travelling in the opposite direction,the start-point of the CC Fare zone is directly across the road....you`ve guessed correctly...It`s NOT,as the CC Fare zone does not commence until Parnell Sq East.(Stage 24)...confused ?

Try approaching it from the perspective of a Driver who has attended all the Customer Service modules and paid attention to the earnest speakers referring to attitudinal change etc etc....then factor in that same Driver being also advised in somewhat doom laden tones by the most senior of management that the companys financial state is perilous and of the need to protect our revenue stream......phew,where would a driver start....inner turmoil....conflicting instructions....Indeed

This sort of nonsense makes confrontation and ill-feeling almost a racing certainty yet those plates remain in place as if their very presence will eventually make the extension of the CC fare unavoidable.

This stuff,to me,represents the ABC of Bus operations...the methodology of what fare is to be charged for a journey just does not become more fundamental...if we can`t,or worse still,steadfastly refuse to make an attempt to get it right,then we might as well forget all about large scale projects such as RTPI,Network Direct and AVLS because they will not replace actual interest and knowledge as the underpinning of good service provision.

I remain somewhat incredulous that I sit in the midst of vast electronic wizardry capable of wonderful feats and yet I am presented with an endless amount of totally avoidable simplistic ambiguities all for the want of a little interest.......

Is this a rant...I dunno...depends on whether you`re having a good day or not I suppose

foggy_lad

I have been advised that intending passengers can refer to the timetable and that in the event of a dispute the Driver should produce their copy and outline the relevant information to the disgruntled passenger.

are dublin bus management really this stupid? do they think that passengers carry around the timetable with them or that they can read the fare stages adn understand a system that is better explained by practice?

bonerm

Out of interest would it be terribly difficult to just get out a compass and a map, stick the needle in O'Connell Bridge and draw three or four concentric circles through the city to create zones and then charge fares appropriately?

AlekSmart

Out of interest would it be terribly difficult to just get out a compass and a map, stick the needle in O'Connell Bridge and draw three or four concentric circles through the city to create zones and then charge fares appropriately?

Hmmmm...never thought of that Bonerm...:)

However I reckon if you e-mailed that suggestion to the National Transport Authority...(The newly responsible agency) they would immediately commission an expert review group to come up with valid reasons not to impliment such wild theory...

It`s exactly why we failed to beat the Americans to the Moon.....:rolleyes:

bonerm

No, I know I'm deliberately offering the simplest and most obvious solution. I know a bus network is far more complex than a suburban rail network but isn't the principle just the same. Define your zones and fares so that a person from anywhere in the world could look at it and in 10seconds can know where and how much.

Why would it really be that difficult for the NTA to try something like this if only for the piece of mind of drivers and passengers alike?

devnull

As you say Alek, it's all badly thought out and could be a much better success if it is properly thought through, but we all know that it does not happen, and instead we get left the mess we have now.

foggy_lad

Just to add to the bus driver rant I was on a bus today and 7 Burmese people got on at the same stop, two of them produced student ids and were sold student tickets by the driver who had no change at all not even the price of a cup of tea:) laughable on an expressway service but worse was to come.

While discussing how they would find change of 50euro for their 21euro fare two of the Burmese people were speaking in their native tongue when the driver held up his hand interrupted them and snapped talk in English only!

After everyone was seated the driver then stood at the top of the bus where the two Burmese students and the others were and clicked his fingers a few times before saying "gimme them student Ids I want a better look at them" he then held them up high at the front of the bus just in front of the camera beside the clock for about 30 seconds with each one. this was done for reasons known only to this driver as I am sure this practice does not appear in any bus eireann manual or staff memo! For me witnessing this I hate to say it looked like racism rearing its head as none of the others that bought student tickets were put through this humiliation.

AlekSmart

For me witnessing this I hate to say it looked like racism rearing its head as none of the others that bought student tickets were put through this humiliation.

Just for the record,and any newly arrived readers could Foggy_Lad please confirm the identity of the particular company on whose services this alleged :eek: racist :eek: incident occurred......:)

foggy_lad

It is in the post if you had read it, why should I need to confirm what I have already posted?

mikemac

I was going to ask the same question

If it's Bus Éireann why not just post that?

Not everybody knows what Expressway is

AlekSmart

Just to add to the bus driver rant I was on a bus today and 7 Burmese people got on at the same stop, two of them produced student ids and were sold student tickets by the driver who had no change at all not even the price of a cup of tea laughable on an expressway service but worse was to come.

While discussing how they would find change of 50euro for their 21euro fare two of the Burmese people were speaking in their native tongue when the driver held up his hand interrupted them and snapped talk in English only!

After everyone was seated the driver then stood at the top of the bus where the two Burmese students and the others were and clicked his fingers a few times before saying "gimme them student Ids I want a better look at them" he then held them up high at the front of the bus just in front of the camera beside the clock for about 30 seconds with each one. this was done for reasons known only to this driver as I am sure this practice does not appear in any bus eireann manual or staff memo! For me witnessing this I hate to say it looked like racism rearing its head as none of the others that bought student tickets were put through this humiliation.

Foggy_Lad replied....

It is in the post if you had read it, why should I need to confirm what I have already posted?

I did indeed read it.....closely,as always ....however, just to ensure we don`t have too many other readers feeling stressed with the curiosity,especially as "Expressway" is just SO last century....so, for the tape....please ?

mikemac

AlekSmart wrote: »

I did indeed read it.....closely,as always ....however, just to ensure we don`t have too many other readers feeling stressed with the curiosity,

I see what you did there!

foggy_lad

My apologies but I was absolutely sure I had mentioned bus eireann as well as expressway their trademark name!

Oh there it is in the last paragraph.

foggy_lad

foggy_lad wrote: »

After everyone was seated the driver then stood at the top of the bus where the two Burmese students and the others were and clicked his fingers a few times before saying "gimme them student Ids I want a better look at them" he then held them up high at the front of the bus just in front of the camera beside the clock for about 30 seconds with each one.

this was done for reasons known only to this driver as I am sure this practice does not appear in any bus eireann manual or staff memo!

For me witnessing this I hate to say it looked like racism rearing its head as none of the others that bought student tickets were put through this humiliation.

Is it any clearer now lads?

AlekSmart

Hmmmmm...Capital B....Capital E...just for effect ...but,yes It`ll do just fine.
Same caveat applies I take it...complaint submitted through the proper channels ?

foggy_lad

AlekSmart wrote: »

Hmmmmm...Capital B....Capital E...just for effect ...but,yes It`ll do just fine.
Same caveat applies I take it...complaint submitted through the proper channels ?

oh yes complaint has already been sent to Bus Eireann via their online complaint form while i was still on the bus earlier:) and i wont be describing driver here lest he be found innocent by his employers, but if they properly review their bus security tapes they will see what all the passengers including myself saw and be able to do as they see fit with the evidence.

and if and when bus eireann behave like a capitol bus company instead of some shoddy backwater operation i will give them capitals:)

Ham'nd'egger

I find it amazing that every bus journey taken by Foggy have rude drivers at the wheel of shoddy leaky buses who miss stops while on the phone while all of his trains are late and overflowing with passengers:rolleyes:

foggy_lad

Hamndegger wrote: »

I find it amazing that every bus journey taken by Foggy have rude drivers at the wheel of shoddy leaky buses who miss stops while on the phone while all of his trains are late and overflowing with passengers:rolleyes:

oh dear you seem to be exaggerating quite a lot there,

most of the journeys i take are pretty uneventful with nice drivers that do as they are paid to do in coaches that are exactly as stated in the customer charter of bus eireann but the ones that i mention are the ones that cause me discomfort or cause me to think "that driver should NOT be doing that!" and i have started to report bad/dirty/uncomfortable busses and especially any bad or illegal behaviour by drivers of any company not just bus eireann.