disadvantaged area

castletrader

Just wondering when is the disadvantaged area payment giong to be payed out??

whelan1

see thread on area aid , 3rd week in september

castletrader

In the journal site it says payments will not now be out on time.

whelan1

WHAT:eek:

supersean1999

ya 4th week 28th

snowman707

i have 3 sets of college fees to pay this week, and farm insurance due on the 24Th, daughter's car needs a set of tyres, son;s car needs water pump and timing belt kit.

The august milk cheque better be a good one :eek:

supersean1999

snowman707 wrote: »

i have 3 sets of college fees to pay this week, and farm insurance due on the 24Th, daughter's car needs a set of tyres, son;s car needs water pump and timing belt kit.

The august milk cheque better be a good one :eek:

i suggest getting your son and daughter two bikes

snowman707

supersean1999 wrote: »

i suggest getting your son and daughter two bikes

guess you haven't got kids aged between 18 and 24 ,

whelan1

is the delay because they where late sending out the letters to people about problems ?

Tora Bora

snowman707 wrote: »

i have 3 sets of college fees to pay this week, and farm insurance due on the 24Th, daughter's car needs a set of tyres, son;s car needs water pump and timing belt kit.

The august milk cheque better be a good one :eek:

I know exactly what you mean. I have two to pay for this week. Plus car tyres plus NCT plus, plus, plus.. glad I have off farm job.

supersean1999

snowman707 wrote: »

guess you haven't got kids aged between 18 and 24 ,

your right i dont, but all i know is at 24 my father was not fixing my car,

snowman707

supersean1999 wrote: »

your right i dont, but all i know is at 24 my father was not fixing my car,

tell that to a 24 female who is fully qualified in her chosen profession and now reckons the only place she will will source any sort of decent lifestyle for herself is USA or Australia. actually she has an interview with the Aus Embassy shortly and I know well if all goes well she will buying a one way ticket

being the eldest of the family this lady has worked her butt off, on the farm , in college and in her part time jobs, now this country has SFA to offer her and while it break my heart to see her immigrate, I will encourage her with to do so,
IMO the real recession will hit this country in the next 5 years or so, we haven't seen anything yet

vanderbadger

snowman707 wrote: »

tell that to a 24 female who is fully qualified in her chosen profession and now reckons the only place she will will source any sort of decent lifestyle for herself is USA or Australia. actually she has an interview with the Aus Embassy shortly and I know well if all goes well she will buying a one way ticket

being the eldest of the family this lady has worked her butt off, on the farm , in college and in her part time jobs, now this country has SFA to offer her and while it break my heart to see her immigrate, I will encourage her with to do so,
IMO the real recession will hit this country in the next 5 years or so, we haven't seen anything yet

not easy these days, in my own case I hope the job holds out, I thought things had steadied a bit but in the last few months things seem to be getting worse whether they actually are or whether its just media spin its hard to know..and then you have biffo hardly able to talk on radio the other day..some hope of things improving while that clown is at the wheel

whelan1

the journal is saying payment from 22 september

whelan1

supersean1999 wrote: »

your right i dont, but all i know is at 24 my father was not fixing my car,

times have changed i find myself even at 36 having to be bailed out by the old lad , i am lucky to have him , i always repay him

vanderbadger

whelan1 wrote: »

times have changed i find myself even at 36 having to be bailed out by the old lad , i am lucky to have him , i always repay him

does the husband farm at all Whelan or was the farming always on your side, you have an fairly unusual setup, not that there is anything wrong with that either

whelan1

oh is a lorry driver , not from a farming background , will reluctantly give a hand :mad: yup i am a weird case alright

vanderbadger

whelan1 wrote: »

oh is a lorry driver , not from a farming background , will reluctantly give a hand :mad: yup i am a weird case alright

well you must be doing something right if you can keep a fair sized dairy herd going with a bunch of kids..i find it hard to keep a handy sucler herd going and work!

dryan

im going to get my OH to read this thread tonight. time she got herself a pair of wellies. i'll start her off on the easiest of tasks - the hearding!

BeeDI

whelan1 wrote: »

oh is a lorry driver , not from a farming background , will reluctantly give a hand :mad: yup i am a weird case alright

Of course there is one way to make him cooperate more;)

5live

Good news. DAs start on 22 sept. Bad news. only partial payments until map fiasco sorted. Prob end sept. 2011:(

supersean1999

5live wrote: »

Good news. DAs start on 22 sept. Bad news. only partial payments until map fiasco sorted. Prob end sept. 2011:(

where did you hear that???

supersean1999

snowman707 wrote: »

tell that to a 24 female who is fully qualified in her chosen profession and now reckons the only place she will will source any sort of decent lifestyle for herself is USA or Australia. actually she has an interview with the Aus Embassy shortly and I know well if all goes well she will buying a one way ticket

being the eldest of the family this lady has worked her butt off, on the farm , in college and in her part time jobs, now this country has SFA to offer her and while it break my heart to see her immigrate, I will encourage her with to do so,
IMO the real recession will hit this country in the next 5 years or so, we haven't seen anything yet

i was only having the crack about the bike, but on a serious note, its rotten being forced to go, but it can be a big advantage going seeing the world gaining experience, so i hope everything works out,

johngalway

supersean1999 wrote: »

where did you hear that???

It was on the Journal I think?

Usual nonsense, Dept makes hames of things, farmers end up paying by not receiving money they're entitled to. I would love to live on Planet Civil Servant where you do not need money, apparently.

supersean1999

johngalway wrote: »

It was on the Journal I think?

Usual nonsense, Dept makes hames of things, farmers end up paying by not receiving money they're entitled to. I would love to live on Planet Civil Servant where you do not need money, apparently.

did they say how much is partial payment 50, 75% ? , they are a shower of useless overpaid clowns

5live

Talking to IFA man last night and he reckons you will be paid up to your elegible area mapped already. Balance paid when maps digitised. Now i dont want to frighten anyone BUT 4 years ago i had an issue with a digitised map and it took over 2 years to digitise it. Now there are 90000 maps to be done so.......:mad:

reilig

johngalway wrote: »

I would love to live on Planet Civil Servant where you do not need money, apparently.

Just wait for the backlash now from the civil servants that use boards.ie farming and forestry forum.

You're in for it

dryan

reilig wrote: »

Just wait for the backlash now from the civil servants that use boards.ie farming and forestry forum.

You're in for it

what backlash? - how can they justify the money earned for the amount of work they do these days?

reilig

dryan wrote: »

what backlash? - how can they justify the money earned for the amount of work they do these days?

It was a joke. Civil servants are always definding the work that they do and claiming that they are overworked. I don't think they can justify the money earned nor could they ever justify the money earned in the past. But its quite obvious that top civil servants in this country have a lot of influence and control. Like the government ministers, they made life very cushy for themselves and always took care of the civil service boys below them too!!!!!

whelan1

look we have a joke of a taosieach that is among the highest paid leaders in the world , a health system that is like a third world country and people in financial dire straits the civil servants dont give a **** ... when can we get rid of this government and try to move on. As far as i can see we are moving further and further into recession not out of it. Do i sound bitter ? well i am:(

vanderbadger

reilig wrote: »

It was a joke. Civil servants are always definding the work that they do and claiming that they are overworked. I don't think they can justify the money earned nor could they ever justify the money earned in the past. But its quite obvious that top civil servants in this country have a lot of influence and control. Like the government ministers, they made life very cushy for themselves and always took care of the civil service boys below them too!!!!!

if the IMF guys ever have to bail us out id say the civil servants will get some skinning, and everyone else probably

sexy tractor

dryan wrote: »

what backlash? - how can they justify the money earned for the amount of work they do these days?

Would you care to be more specific or to give an example?

It is very easy to generalize and blast away at civil servants based on the cliches of the Ballymagash days but it might be helpful to spell out exactly what you mean when you dismiss the efforts of thousands with a toss away line.

Username John

dryan wrote: »

what backlash? - how can they justify the money earned for the amount of work they do these days?

sexy tractor wrote: »

Would you care to be more specific or to give an example?

It is very easy to generalize and blast away at civil servants based on the cliches of the Ballymagash days but it might be helpful to spell out exactly what you mean when you dismiss the efforts of thousands with a toss away line.

Is there a "Civil servant" forum on boards, where every now and then, some civil servant says something like "fecking farmers, money grabbing h'0res" and then it all kicks off...

But - while I see why you say it, I think as with everything, there are people who work hard, and people who dont... so some people prob deserve the money they're on, others dont...

5live

Look guys its annoying. My better half is a public servant and i could be writing here for a week about the idiotic procedures in place just to protect someones ass from making a decision. I guess we are the idealised hate figures: farmer and public servant. The problem is further up th line. Why did dept announce this idiotic change just days before the application date? Take money off us for natural habitat while paying us for artifical habitat. Go figure! If they said next year then absolutely no problem. All aplications in with 4 months now and they only just getting around NOW to posting queries. You can bloody be sure the salary cheques arent late or partially paid!

blue5000

HSE, dept of Agriculture, Fas, county councils. Need I say MORE?

sexy tractor

blue5000 wrote: »

HSE, dept of Agriculture, Fas, county councils. Need I say MORE?

Generalizations all. Not evidence

reilig

sexy tractor wrote: »

Would you care to be more specific or to give an example?

It is very easy to generalize and blast away at civil servants based on the cliches of the Ballymagash days but it might be helpful to spell out exactly what you mean when you dismiss the efforts of thousands with a toss away line.

A very simple example is the HSE. They have 7 clerical workers for every hands on medical worker (nurse, doctor, care assistant etc.). There is a false hierarchy there. Hierarchys were created because people got promoted. In some sections of the HSE there is a manager for every clerical worker. People were promoted because they had served a certain amount of time. If there wasn't a vacancy for them, then one was created in name at least in order to justify the extra money being paid.

Now, anyone can hit back and say to me that Farmers receive loads of money from grants and are just as big of sponge on the economy as all the extra civil service workers. I would gladly give up any payment that I receive if people bought my farm produce and the produce of all irish farmers at the price that it costs me to produce it (+ a 5% margin for my income). I would be a lot better off anyway and I embrace the day that all farmer supports are removed and that food is sold at the price that it costs to produce it.

sexy tractor

reilig wrote: »

A very simple example is the HSE. They have 7 clerical workers for every hands on medical worker (nurse, doctor, care assistant etc.). There is a false hierarchy there. Hierarchys were created because people got promoted. In some sections of the HSE there is a manager for every clerical worker. People were promoted because they had served a certain amount of time. If there wasn't a vacancy for them, then one was created in name at least in order to justify the extra money being paid.

Now, anyone can hit back and say to me that Farmers receive loads of money from grants and are just as big of sponge on the economy as all the extra civil service workers. I would gladly give up any payment that I receive if people bought my farm produce and the produce of all irish farmers at the price that it costs me to produce it (+ a 5% margin for my income). I would be a lot better off anyway and I embrace the day that all farmer supports are removed and that food is sold at the price that it costs to produce it.

what promotions were created to justify extra money? do you have a source for this?

Tora Bora

sexy tractor wrote: »

what promotions were created to justify extra money? do you have a source for this?

Get real here. The public service system is ridden with bad practice, bad management, no accountability, and it's culture is too much about what is good for public servants and to hell with the rest of us.

Take absenteeism for example. Joke :mad:

Sick leave in public service is twice the rate of private sector

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/sick-leave-in-public-service-is-twice-the-rate-of-private-sector-1922474.html

By Fionnan Sheahan and Brian Hutton

Friday October 23 2009

The Government got further ammunition for its drive to cut €1.3bn off the public sector wage bill yesterday when a new report showed the cost of paying pensions will double in the next decade.
And there was another blow for public sector workers when it was revealed the average civil servant takes 11 sick days a year -- almost double the rate of absence in the private sector.
The report from the Comptroller and Auditor General emerged as the Government gets ready to slash €1.3bn from the public sector pay and pensions bill in December's Budget.
The report shows three out of five civil servants take leave and the direct cost of absenteeism is €64m. But the all-in cost to the country is reckoned to be double this amount.
Absenteeism
By contrast the latest survey of absenteeism in the private sector shows an average rate of just six days per employee.
Responding to the report, the Department of Finance pointed out that over 40pc of staff took no sick leave in 2007.
The department said an up-to-date and robust policy to manage sick leave was at an advanced stage of negotiation with the unions.
"This policy takes on board the concerns raised by the Comptroller and Auditor General, such as providing a general framework of guidelines on more efficient management of sick leave and a definition of long-term sick leave," the report said.
"The policy is also aimed at reducing absence from work, which should result in reductions in the cost of sick leave."
The report stressed legitimate sickness leave was a normal part of employment but insisted civil servant managers needed to intervene where it is "excessive and unwarranted".
The average woman working in state departments was absent 14 days, while the average man was off for eight days. Stating that a 5pc cut in sick leave would save the state at least €3.2m, the C&AG urged the civil service to start monitoring absences and comparing them with other departments.
But the C&AG also revealed the dramatic escalation in meeting the cost of the public sector pension bill.
The cost of paying public sector pensions is €2.4bn this year. This will increase to €4.4bn by 2018 and €14.7bn in 2058. Taoiseach Brian Cowen and Finance Minister Brian Lenihan indicated to union leaders this week that they were looking to cut the public sector wage bill by almost 7pc, or €1.3bn.
Opposition
The Government has repeatedly signalled that it intended to cut wages right across the board in the public sector in the Budget, despite workers' opposition to the pension levy earlier this year.
The last time a similar review was carried out, more than 20 years ago in 1986, the average sick leave for a civil servant was just over seven-and-a-half days a year. In 2007, the average was more than 11 days, but this rose to 16 days among clerical officers -- three-quarters of whom took sick leave that year.
Labour's social and family affairs spokeswoman Roisin Shortall described as remarkable the massive variance in absenteeism rates between state and government departments.
"This would suggest that there are particular problems, among particular groups of people that need to be tackled and that in some departments and agencies there is a culture of absenteeism where the system is abused," she said.
The investigation found the highest levels of sick leave were in the State Laboratory (77pc of employees had taken absence); the Property Registration Authority (76pc); the Department of Social and Family Affairs (69pc); the Public Appointments Service (67pc); the Central Statistics Office (67pc); the Chief State Solicitor's Office (66pc); and the Director of Public Prosecutions (65pc).
Among the lower rates were the Department of Arts, Sports and Tourism (42pc); the Taoiseach's office (43pc); Office of Public Works (44pc); and the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (45pc).
Ms Shortall said the records of some departments were "simply unacceptable".
"I do not think that public servants should be scapegoated for our current economic problems," she said.
"However, there is a need for the public service to show leadership in making economies and this is one such area."
- Fionnan Sheahan and Brian Hutton
Irish Independent

reilig

sexy tractor wrote: »

what promotions were created to justify extra money? do you have a source for this?

I said that position titles were created (which usually consisted of the word manager) in order to be able to promote someone because very often there was no position available for the person to be promoted into - so a new one was formed. Of course this promotion entitled the person to more money because they now had more responsibility. The HSE themselves released figures last year which stated that in 2008 1 in 16 people held a management position (at some level which entitled them to extra pay). 10 years earlier, in 1998, only 1 in 25 people held management positions. They are employing far more people now than they were in 1998. Its quite obvious that they created positions for people who they felt deserved promotion (even if it was just in position name only - and all promotions in the HSE come with pay rises). How else could you explain the above figures????

Its simple, HSE senior management made jobs for the boys and ensured that they got big fat pay rises as they worked their way through the system. And it wasn't just the HSE, they just seem to be getting all the bad press at the moment. It happened in all civil service departments. Many of the top brass retired in the last 24 months and took their big pensions and minimum €50k lump sums with them, leaving the mess that they created for someone else to clean up.

sexy tractor

reilig wrote: »

I said that position titles were created (which usually consisted of the word manager) in order to be able to promote someone because very often there was no position available for the person to be promoted into - so a new one was formed. Of course this promotion entitled the person to more money because they now had more responsibility. The HSE themselves released figures last year which stated that in 2008 1 in 16 people held a management position (at some level which entitled them to extra pay). 10 years earlier, in 1998, only 1 in 25 people held management positions. They are employing far more people now than they were in 1998. Its quite obvious that they created positions for people who they felt deserved promotion (even if it was just in position name only - and all promotions in the HSE come with pay rises). How else could you explain the above figures????

Its simple, HSE senior management made jobs for the boys and ensured that they got big fat pay rises as they worked their way through the system. And it wasn't just the HSE, they just seem to be getting all the bad press at the moment. It happened in all civil service departments. Many of the top brass retired in the last 24 months and took their big pensions and minimum €50k lump sums with them, leaving the mess that they created for someone else to clean up.

It is not obvious or self evident. In fact, using historical figures as for comparison is worse than useless. For a very long time after the 1987 era cuts ended, recruitment into the civil service was stymied. At the same time, more and more work was being loaded onto them as scheme after scheme and programme after programme was created and while the cost were estimated in terms of what was being paid out, no thought was given to the costs necessary to manage the increased workload.

The civil service was being hollowed out and expected to produce more and more. When the inevitable delays occurred, it was always because they were lazy and indolent and not working hard enough.

But I wouldn't want to puncture the crude stereotyping here now would I?

blue5000

Hey sexy tractor what have you to say about the traffic jams on the road to Newry last december when the civil service went on strike?

johngalway

sexy tractor wrote: »

Generalizations all. Not evidence

Civil servant working in Dept of Social Welfare as it was at the time, was doing a radio interview when the brown stuff was really hitting the fan at the start of the recession. S/he, can't remember, complained bitterly about the increased work load and the stress from same. Interviewer asked how many hours over time they had to work to keep up with this load. Standard 39/40 hour working week. There was more as well, but I forget it now. I didn't know whether to , :mad: , or cry.

That's one example. I blame the culture in the Civil Service, can't sack the bad apples or there might be many heads rolling so everyone has to be protected no matter how surplus to requirements.

5live

Come off the fence tora bora and take a stand;). Just taking one example that i know of personally(Buy one a drink or two and you will hear a lot more!) but my wife shares half a job with another. No problem EVER with audits or lateness on their work. Then a newly promoted person to the SAME grade was put in charge of supervising work that didnt need supervising. Multiply by 1000 for that example alone. People benchmarked to produce private sector results but giving none at all:mad:

supersean1999

so does anyone know what a partial payment is, could be 20% or 80% big difference

5live

Surely to god they have to pay up to approved verified level of elegible land. ie if 10 ha in DA ok then pay on 10 and when next 10 ha mapped then pay on that. Or is common sense totally absent in Civilserviceland:(

supersean1999

the dep of ag web site is useless at keeping people informed , all they want to put on it is the minister opens this minister opens that, they are constantly posting the good news and leave the journal to post the bad stuff,

whelan1

so when are we getting the disadvantged area payment and what percent . also did anyone get a letter that something was wrong

johngalway

Got no letter as yet, won't be home again until Wednesday though.

supersean1999

apparently 75% on wed 22nd, and 25% 4th nov

whelan1

supersean1999 wrote: »

apparently 75% on wed 22nd, and 25% 4th nov

jesus aren't they great, department people cant do their job so punish the farmers , fantastic