What power do off-duty guards have?

KingIsabella

Friend of mine from way out in the shtix was driving yesterday and in front of her was a big purple C-reg people wagon. It was an 80km limit, and the people wagon was doing about 70 so she overtook when it was safe to do.

She was driving along and the wagon started flashing her for a couple hundred metres and then she noticed that the driver was in uniform so she pulled over. He checked her licence and all that and was a right p*@^k about the whole thing. He took all her details and said she was doing 106(a numberobviously concocted out of his head as he had no way of knowing, and an obvious exaggeration) in an 80km zone.

Afterwards she drove away and went into the nearby town to a shop, where he was in there buying his bits and bobs.

Just wondering was he in any position to pull her, guess an exaggerated speed she was doing and report it?

Bogger77

a Garda is never off duty, unless they're outside of the country.

markpb

They still have the same legal authority as when they're rostered on. In my experience, your friend must have been really acting the maggot, most Gardai have no interest in working on their days off (like the rest of us).

yop

IF he was in uniform he was either starting or finishing a shift.

But 2 sides to every story, he could have been the twat, then again your mate could have been also

KingIsabella

She's never been a dangerous driver by any stretch of the imagination though. I was thinking he was just pissed off he was overtaken in his people wagon. My girlfriend was in the car with her and she said he seemed to let up a little bit when he saw that she was a local.

Anan1

KingIsabella wrote: »

I was thinking he was just pissed off he was overtaken in his people wagon.

That sounds like a bit of a stretch, TBH.:)

Cookie_Monster

Bogger77 wrote: »

a Garda is never off duty, unless their outside of the country.

:rolleyes:

yeah cos we pay them 24/7

Max Power1

Bogger77 wrote: »

a Garda is never off duty, unless their outside of the country.

+1
a garda is always on duty

hobochris

Is that the speed on his radar gun?

I take it his personal vehicle speedo is 100% calibrated and has a radar speed detection system on board..

KingIsabella

Anan1 wrote: »

That sounds like a bit of a stretch, TBH.:)

She was doing 70 in an 80km zone sticking behind him, so she overtook him in a safe spot. I can't think of a legitimate reason he'd pull her for doing an alleged 106.

I'm presuming if he does turn it into anything it can't really go far as 106 is a number he just blurted out.

Guy:Incognito

yop wrote: »

IF he was in uniform he was either starting or finishing a shift.

But 2 sides to every story, he could have been the twat, then again your mate could have been also

Surely you've been around here long enough to know it's NEVER the poor innocent oppressed driver's fault in stories where we only have their side .

Anan1

KingIsabella wrote: »

She was doing 70 in an 80km zone sticking behind him, so she overtook him in a safe spot. I can't think of a legitimate reason he'd pull her for doing an alleged 106.

I'm presuming if he does turn it into anything it can't really go far as 106 is a number he just blurted out.

I wasn't there, so I can't say. As an outsider, though, her overtaking dangerously does seem more likely than his making unnecessary unpaid work for himself. In any case, it sounds like he let her off with a warning?

Henry Ford III

If the cop was doing 70kph the only allegation he could make would be she was doing "in excess of 70kph".

Now if the overtaking manouver was dodgy or dangerous however......

listermint

markpb wrote: »

They still have the same legal authority as when they're rostered on. In my experience, your friend must have been really acting the maggot, most Gardai have no interest in working on their days off (like the rest of us).

Alot of people take issue with being over taken. Gardai are no different only they feel they have the power to do something about it. (and they do) so i wouldnt agree Gardai have no interest in working. - Its situational power, my sister in law is a fine example...

Anan1

listermint wrote: »

Alot of people take issue with being over taken. Gardai are no different only they feel they have the power to do something about it. (and they do) so i wouldnt agree Gardai have no interest in working. - Its situational power, my sister in law is a fine example...

Wouldn't they get bored of it after a while? If I were an off-duty Garda it'd want to be something straight-up dangerous to get me involved - otherwise i'd never get where I was going myself. I'm not saying it's impossible mind, it just seems less likely than the alternative.

Bogger77

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

:rolleyes:

yeah cos we pay them 24/7

ask any member of the force, that you're friendly with, if they are technically always on duty?

Cookie_Monster

Bogger77 wrote: »

ask any member of the force, that you're friendly with, if they are technically always on duty?

they may be able to act but they are hardly obliged to

otherwise why would anyone do it, 24/7 and only being paid for a normal 39 week or so...

high horse

KingIsabella wrote: »

Friend of mine from way out in the shtix was driving yesterday and in front of her was a big purple C-reg people wagon. It was an 80km limit, and the people wagon was doing about 70 so she overtook when it was safe to do.

She was driving along and the wagon started flashing her for a couple hundred metres and then she noticed that the driver was in uniform so she pulled over. He checked her licence and all that and was a right p*@^k about the whole thing. He took all her details and said she was doing 106(a numberobviously concocted out of his head as he had no way of knowing, and an obvious exaggeration) in an 80km zone.

Afterwards she drove away and went into the nearby town to a shop, where he was in there buying his bits and bobs.

Just wondering was he in any position to pull her, guess an exaggerated speed she was doing and report it?

There is absolutely no way I would pull over for a non-garda car! Unless I get the flashing blue lights, I'll keep on going thanks! :rolleyes:

Bogger77

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

they may be able to act but they are hardly obliged to

otherwise why would anyone do it, 24/7 and only being paid for a normal 39 week or so...

'cos it's what they signed up to?

Viper_JB

I don't see it as of being beyond the relms of possibility that the guard was out of order here given the information to hand, they are just people and people can be pricks, it's down to the person not the profession. Either way if she recieves a ticket I'd take it to court and I'd inform the guard that I intended on fighting the ticket in court the week I recieved it.

markpb

Viper_JB wrote: »

Either way if she recieves a ticket I'd take it to court and I'd inform the guard that I intended on fighting the ticket in court the week I recieved it.

On what grounds?

The Garda stands up and swears in front of the court that in their opinion, the person was in breach of RTA due to speeding or dangerous driving (take your pick). The fact that they weren't rostered on won't even come into it.

Viper_JB

markpb wrote: »

On what grounds?

The Garda stands up and swears in front of the court that in their opinion, the person was in breach of RTA due to speeding or dangerous driving (take your pick). The fact that they weren't rostered on won't even come into it.

On the grounds that he was eyeballing the speed from a civilian vechicle. The OP's friend would be well within her rights to bring this to court and have her honest say on what happened.

Anan1

high horse wrote: »

There is absolutely no way I would pull over for a non-garda car! Unless I get the flashing blue lights, I'll keep on going thanks! :rolleyes:

That's a bit paranoid, TBH. There are a million reasons why anyone (Garda or not) may want to stop another car, some of which might save your life. Keep the doors locked, an escape route open, and only crack open the window by all means, but it's really not half as dangerous as the TV lets on.;)

Rob67

KingIsabella wrote: »

Friend of mine from way out in the shtix was driving yesterday and in front of her was a big purple C-reg people wagon. It was an 80km limit, and the people wagon was doing about 70 so she overtook when it was safe to do.

She was driving along and the wagon started flashing her for a couple hundred metres and then she noticed that the driver was in uniform so she pulled over. He checked her licence and all that and was a right p*@^k about the whole thing. He took all her details and said she was doing 106(a numberobviously concocted out of his head as he had no way of knowing, and an obvious exaggeration) in an 80km zone.

Afterwards she drove away and went into the nearby town to a shop, where he was in there buying his bits and bobs.

Just wondering was he in any position to pull her, guess an exaggerated speed she was doing and report it?

The garda would carry out a time and speed over a set distance calculation which would give an approximate speed that the driver was doing. It is permissible as evidence in court (if required)

Zapho

Anan1 wrote: »

That's a bit paranoid, TBH. There are a million reasons why anyone (Garda or not) may want to stop another car, some of which might save your life. Keep the doors locked, an escape route open, and only crack open the window by all means, but it's really not half as dangerous as the TV lets on.;)

I don't think he was being too paranoid - I wouldn't stop just because someone was flashing me either......not because I'm worried they might be a murderer, just because, why would I bother?

I mean, can a garda who is not in a squad car legally pull you over anyway? You could easily make the case that "how the hell was I supposed to know he was a gard?" And at that, how could he tell how fast you were going...I doubt they all carry radar guns linked to their own speedometers in their family car?

Cookie_Monster

Rob67 wrote: »

The garda would carry out a time and speed over a set distance calculation which would give an approximate speed that the driver was doing. It is permissible as evidence in court (if required)

and how on earth is he supposed to accurately measure distance and look at his watch to get accurate time while driving and watching the car in front of him?

Anan1

Zapho wrote: »

I don't think he was being too paranoid - I wouldn't stop just because someone was flashing me either......not because I'm worried they might be a murderer, just because, why would I bother?

Last time I flashed someone over it was because they had an almost flat rear tyre.

Zapho wrote: »

I mean, can a garda who is not in a squad car legally pull you over anyway? You could easily make the case that "how the hell was I supposed to know he was a gard?" And at that, how could he tell how fast you were going...I doubt they all carry radar guns linked to their own speedometers in their family car?

They probably can't. The only time i've ever been pulled by an unmarked car without lights they held the badge up to my side window.

Rob67

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

and how on earth is he supposed to accurately measure distance and look at his watch to get accurate time while driving and watching the car in front of him?

Ah... I should have also pointed out that normally a co-driver would do the calculations, but it is possible to do it solo, not recommended though.

listermint

Anan1 wrote: »

Wouldn't they get bored of it after a while? If I were an off-duty Garda it'd want to be something straight-up dangerous to get me involved - otherwise i'd never get where I was going myself. I'm not saying it's impossible mind, it just seems less likely than the alternative.

You havent met her

nogoodnamesleft

Bogger77 wrote: »

a Garda is never off duty, unless they're outside of the country.

+ 1 A garda is never off duty and have their powers of arrest even if their off duty. Most feel they have a responsibility to uphold the law regradless if their on or off duty as thats why they are in the occupation their in.

Orando Broom

Max Power1 wrote: »

+1
a garda is always on duty

Still a guard until 3 years after they're dead.

FACT!!!

mickdw

Rob67 wrote: »

The garda would carry out a time and speed over a set distance calculation which would give an approximate speed that the driver was doing. It is permissible as evidence in court (if required)

So what instumentation would this garda use for this method of measuring speed?
It would surely involve the use of the same unreliable car odometer and a watch or would the garda measure time from 2 observed points on the road & then go back and measure the distance between these two points? Either way, if this would not be laughed out of court, I am giving my licence back.

Victor

Who is to say that it wasn't a unmarked Traffic Corps vehicle?

And that he was on his lunch break?

Topper Harley

Victor wrote: »

Who is to say that it wasn't a unmarked Traffic Corps vehicle?

And that he was on his lunch break?

Surely an unmarked Traffic Corps vehicle would have had the appropriate flashing lights and sirens, wouldn't it?

veetwin

Rob67 wrote: »

The garda would carry out a time and speed over a set distance calculation which would give an approximate speed that the driver was doing. It is permissible as evidence in court (if required)

I think of all the ridiculous posts I've seen on boards.ie this one ranks right up there. :rolleyes:

-Corkie-

Topper Harley wrote: »

Surely an unmarked Traffic Corps vehicle would have had the appropriate flashing lights and sirens, wouldn't it?

I dont think the vehicle matters but I cant remember if it was nice guy always or another member that contributes here regularly.;) They stated no instruments are needed in a case like this. All they need to do is stand up in court and say the person is speeding. My mate in tc is away today so I cannot ring him to ask. Anyway I cant see this guard doing this in any case. The paperwork would be huge, I am sure he has some more pressing issues to deal with..:)

-Corkie-

veetwin wrote: »

I think of all the ridiculous posts I've seen on boards.ie this one ranks right up there. :rolleyes:

I think he talking about the anpr the tc have in there cars which would make the above statment true. However they would need to be stopped and have anpr which they hadnt so yes it was a ridiculous post...:D

Rob67

-Corkie- wrote: »

I think he talking about the anpr the tc have in there cars which would make the above statment true. However they would need to be stopped and have anpr which they hadnt so yes it was a ridiculous post...:D

No, I wasn't, it was the common method, before the introduction of speed detection devices, to ascertain the speed of a vehicle. I used to use it.

Rob67

veetwin wrote: »

I think of all the ridiculous posts I've seen on boards.ie this one ranks right up there. :rolleyes:

Your lack of knowledge of an old practice shows how little you know in regards speed detection.

Using this method, a Gda can form the opinion that an individual was speeding and that is sufficient enough evidence in a court to obtain a conviction.

mickdw

Rob67 wrote: »

No, I wasn't, it was the common method, before the introduction of speed detection devices, to ascertain the speed of a vehicle. I used to use it.

So what was your procedure?

Did you rely on car odometer or actually measure distance between 2 points on the road after?
Did you measure your own car speed or the speed of the offending car?
Have you been successful in court & if so where were the defending solicitors?

Abelloid

Rob67 wrote: »

The garda would carry out a time and speed over a set distance calculation which would give an approximate speed that the driver was doing. It is permissible as evidence in court (if required)

Off duty Garda, not Rain Man.

bladebrew

the gardai didnt always have speed cameras, they must of had a different way to measure speed, i have seen the time taken to cover a set distance being used before but only in video footage,
i think it was some guy in an rs6 driving like a numpty on youtube so they worked out the distance he drove between two signs and worked out he was doing over 100mph (iirc),

Rob67

mickdw wrote: »

So what was your procedure?

Did you rely on car odometer or actually measure distance between 2 points on the road after?
Did you measure your own car speed or the speed of the offending car?
Have you been successful in court & if so where were the defending solicitors?

The co-driver would use the speedo and select two points on the road and time the distance travelled, the driver has to maintain a constant distance behind subject vehicle.
I was Military Police and used this method for a few year before we got decent speed detectors and yes, I got convictions...

Rob67

JustinOval wrote: »

Off duty Garda, not Rain Man.

You'd be amazed at what you can do with a little bit of training...:rolleyes:

Del2005

hobochris wrote: »

Is that the speed on his radar gun?

I take it his personal vehicle speedo is 100% calibrated and has a radar speed detection system on board..

KingIsabella wrote: »

She was doing 70 in an 80km zone sticking behind him, so she overtook him in a safe spot. I can't think of a legitimate reason he'd pull her for doing an alleged 106.

I'm presuming if he does turn it into anything it can't really go far as 106 is a number he just blurted out.

Viper_JB wrote: »

On the grounds that he was eyeballing the speed from a civilian vechicle. The OP's friend would be well within her rights to bring this to court and have her honest say on what happened.

mickdw wrote: »

So what instumentation would this garda use for this method of measuring speed?
It would surely involve the use of the same unreliable car odometer and a watch or would the garda measure time from 2 observed points on the road & then go back and measure the distance between these two points? Either way, if this would not be laughed out of court, I am giving my licence back.

As Rob67 has pointed out the Gardaí don't need to provide proof the driver was speeding, all they need to do is state in court that the driver was speeding. Speed guns and cameras don't need to be calibrated, if they don't need any proof these are working correctly why would they need to get scientific in the OPs case?

All they have to do is stand up in court and say they formed the opinion she was speeding and it's up to her then to prove otherwise. The Guard could say his speedo was reading 70km/h and she overtook him at a a pace which means she had to be speeding.

ardmacha

All they have to do is stand up in court and say they formed the opinion she was speeding and it's up to her then to prove otherwise. The Guard could say his speedo was reading 70km/h and she overtook him at a a pace which means she had to be speeding

Precise calibration is not the issue here, the Garda can say he was doing 70km/h and that a car passed him going 25km/h faster. Whether the actual speed was 68km/h and the difference 22km/h makes no difference. This is not the same situation as a stationary person estimating the speed on a road.

Matt Simis

Anan1 wrote: »

That's a bit paranoid, TBH. There are a million reasons why anyone (Garda or not) may want to stop another car, some of which might save your life. Keep the doors locked, an escape route open, and only crack open the window by all means, but it's really not half as dangerous as the TV lets on.;)

I dont think Ill be stopping for random cars flashing white lights at me. I might pull in when they arent right behind me later to check the car (and have done this).

All well and good peeping out your window crack till the "possible" Garda pulls a crow bar out and smashes your window / face with it! Stopping cos someone is flashing you seems like the a car-jackers dream mark. How easy is that?


I overtake MPVs and Vans as a matter of course, I cannot stand having my view of the road blocked by these monstrosities. I personally dont really care if thats by the book or not, I can read the road better IMO than the mid-40s guy with glasses and 3 kids in the back IMO.

dahamster

Rob67 wrote: »

I was Military Police and used this method for a few year before we got decent speed detectors and yes, I got convictions...

So it didn't go to a real court then

Anan1

Matt Simis wrote: »

I dont think Ill be stopping for random cars flashing white lights at me. I might pull in when they arent right behind me later to check the car (and have done this).

All well and good peeping out your window crack till the "possible" Garda pulls a crow bar out and smashes your window / face with it! Stopping cos someone is flashing you seems like the a car-jackers dream mark. How easy is that?

Sounds like the meedja have you well paranoid.:)

Matt Simis wrote: »

I overtake MPVs and Vans as a matter of course, I cannot stand having my view of the road blocked by these monstrosities. I personally dont really care if thats by the book or not, I can read the road better IMO than the mid-40s guy with glasses and 3 kids in the back IMO.

+1

ILA

Anan1 wrote: »

Sounds like the meedja have you well paranoid.

Hardly, it's 12 euro for a blue flashing dash mounted light, like the TC use, on eBay from China. Crooks are getting more advance, and most of the equipment they use is now readily available to members of the public by ordering from international sites.

Most recent case:
http://www.breakingnews.ie/archives/2010/0629/ireland/garda-impersonator-convicted-on-firearms-child-porn-charges-463540.html

Anan1

ILA wrote: »

Hardly, it's 12 euro for a blue flashing dash mounted light, like the TC use, on eBay from China. Crooks are getting more advance, and most of the equipment they use is now readily available to members of the public by ordering from international sites.

Most recent case:
http://www.breakingnews.ie/archives/2010/0629/ireland/garda-impersonator-convicted-on-firearms-child-porn-charges-463540.html

Sure, it's possible - in the same way that you might be hit by lightning. Honestly, people seem to be jumping at shadows these days.