Oil burner not firing - possible airlock

lostdesign

Hi guys, my mother has oil central heating in her house and they ran her dry at the end of last winter so the boiler hasn't been used since then.

We got the tank re-filled last week but the boiler wont turn on, I am presuming the system is airlocked. The boiler is also showing the Orange Lockout light when it is turned on. It is a Potterton boiler, it also says statesman on the front.

I know this has been covered lots on boards before but i just want to make sure i'm loosing the right nut to remove the airlock before i begin. I have attached some pictures to show you the setup. If anyone could let me know the correct procedure to fix this it would be a great help.

Thanks....

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DoneDL

Difficult to tell from your photos but has the overheat stat tripped? If not remove the red plastic cover on burner, on the left hand side high on the pump you will see a screw, loosen with allen key, wait until bubbles clear then retry burner. It may be necessary to cover it with a rag and rerun burner to lockout again then retry. Make sure that there is definitely no oil in chamber because if you can smell oil or there is oil in the combustion chamber pressing the reset could be extremely dangerous.:eek:

Micky Dolenz

First, take off red cover on burner and you should see this:




Then look at the bottom left hand corner of burner and you will see this set up:






See the long nut with the allen screw inside it, unscrew this but don't take it out. Restart burner and oil will come from here so be prepared to catch it. Repeat until all air is out.

Micky Dolenz

DoneDL wrote: »

Difficult to tell from your photos but has the overheat stat tripped?

The statesman has a red light that indicates overheat. It is the third(bottom) light on the front panel.


EDIT: Change lock out to overheat.

lostdesign

Ok those pictures are exactly the boiler i have so I did that but no oil came out or hissing either! I loosened the screw, turned the boiler on but nothing happened. Should it take long?

Do I need to press the reset button on it? Why does it say "reset twice only"!!

Could there be an airlock somewhere else, as in closer to the tank that needs to be cleared?

The overheat light is not showing, just the lockout one when it is turned on.

Where is the chamber that i need to check if it has oil in it before i reset, I dont want to do anything dangerous!!

thanks for your help.

Micky Dolenz

Ok, Check and ensure all valves are on. in your picture they do look like they are on. the blue lever valve is on, make sure the fire valve beside it is also on and the one at the tank. The fire valve has a reverse thread so clock wise is to open.

Are you sure nothing is coming out, no bubbles?

lostdesign

I checked all the valves and they are on, re loosened the allen screw and turned on the boiler again and nothing. No bubbles, no hissing, nothing. It does seem strange!

Any other options bar calling someone?

Micky Dolenz

If you have tools, turn off blue valve and disconnect black hose from it. Then open blue valve to see if you have oil flow to that point.

lostdesign

Sorry was caught up with other things like work there for a few days! :rolleyes:

Ok so i went at the burner again and relised that turning on the burner was not enough I had to press the reset button to get the pump to pump the oil and airlock through the system so it was my fault for misunderstanding your instructions.

It took a lot of work but I finally got all the air out and she fired up. The airlock must have been all the way from the burner to the tank it took so long but then it hadn't been turned on since last winter.

Just wanted to say thanks alot for all your help, it saved us some valuable money we dont have.

you can always rely on boards...

jeff lebowski

I have this same problem. Did it take many goes to get the air all out? We have been doing it for ages and bubbles are still coming out.

davidoco

jeff, depending on how far you oil tank is from your burner it could take up to 10 resets of the burner. With the bleed valve opened slightly press the reset and your looking for the burner to go through the first 10 parts of the cycle, ie fan on then some other noises then shutdown. After a few resets you should have oil flying out of the bleed point.

lostdesign

jeff lebowski wrote: »

I have this same problem. Did it take many goes to get the air all out? We have been doing it for ages and bubbles are still coming out.

Hi Jeff, It took ages for my boiler to get going and the oil tank is only about 10foot from the boiler but i guess it was airlocked all the way. To be honest i thought I had broke it as it was taking so long but it eventually kicked in and has worked perfectly ever since.

Just keep at it! Our boiler had been off for 6 or more months so that might affect how lon takes to clear the airlock, not sure to be honest.

Hope you have got it working at this stage because its cold out there!

Bagel

Sorry to resurrect such an old post but I wanted to express thanks to the posters - had let tank run dry and normally have to call someone out to restart but followed the instructions here and got her going again. Saved me a couple of bob! Thanks again .

miraflores

Another grateful citizen!

Tank ran dry and after a refill the burner didn't want to fire up. Took me about 10 goes and much to the relief of the wife and kids we now have some heat again!

Many thanks to the contributors to this site.

kyeev

I'd also like to say thanks for this thread.

I'll also throw in my experience or should I say battle I had last night getting past the airlock...

I have a Firebird c35 kitchen which has the Riello R3 burner shown above.
I opened the allen key on the "long nut" as shown above in the pic.
Must have pressed the reset button about 50 times.
Nothing seemed to be happening (although in fairness, my oil tank is more than 20 foot from the house).
Was getting no oil or bubbles.
Also, I'll mention there is a lockout between each press of the reset button where you have to wait 15 seconds before you can press it again (annoying).

Anyway to cut a long story short, I had to physically suck the oil through, until it came up the pipe and out the "long nut" (and yeah into my mouth).
But even after doing that, leaving the allen key open and 30 presses of the reset button, nothing was happening.

However after sucking the oil through, I could see/hear the oil disappear back down the pipe.
So I figured I'll stop that happening by rescrewing the allen key shut.
Then started pressing the reset button again.
Each time the the burner/pump started up, I opened the allen key.
Each time it shut down, I closed the allen key.
I knew I was getting somewhere because it nearly fired up on one occasion and was also starting to bubble and/or jet oil out the "long nut".
But then I made the mistake of leaving the allen key open again, so the oil all drained away again.
I had to suck the oil through again, restart opening/closing the allen key while pressing reset button.
Eventually, I got the jet of oil.
At this stage, I didn't care less it was all over the tiles.
Finally it fired up after 9 or 10 reset button presses as long as the allen key had been closed after each attempt!

shane0007

80+ presses of the reset button! You have most certainly weakened the integrity of the pump! Wouldn't be surprised if it packs in in the not distant future.

OldmanMondeo

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

First, take off red cover on burner and you should see this:
come from here so be prepared to catch it. Repeat until all air is out.

I have the same burner as this picture, with the circular red tank above it. After some issues before Christmas where I had to reset at the thermostat, I now have a bigger problem. I get the burner going, but is burns for about 30 seconds and goes out. Oil in tank, air cleared, seems to be water in the system, I am thinking the injector is fecked. Any ideas? need to try and get a quick fix at least. Can't be dragging the kids up on a cold morning with no heating.

Billy Bunting

So you havnt run out of oil ?? you havnt played with anything ?? it goes out? meaning locks out ?? did you have stormy weather.

OldmanMondeo

Billy Bunting wrote: »

So you havnt run out of oil ?? you havnt played with anything ?? it goes out? meaning locks out ?? did you have stormy weather.

Stormy weather last night ok. Oil is getting there, second thing I checked after making sure there was power. Just been at it again, it is firing up, but only runs for a very short period. I can feel heat from the exhaust, but it "muffles" out.

Should mention, I noticed heating was out this morning. I would normally come on with the timer.

razorgil

might be that your blast tube is damaged/broken. this happened mine recently, fitted a new one and no more problems

Billy Bunting

Check photcell, the black cable dead centre, pull it towards you, bit of a twist if its tight, once out the end should have a nice clean whitish eye, if not clean it with dry cloth.

shane0007

Sounds a bit like an oil pump issue.

jimf

Billy Bunting wrote: »

Check photcell, the black cable dead centre, pull it towards you, bit of a twist if its tight, once out the end should have a nice clean whitish eye, if not clean it with dry cloth.

+ 1

OldmanMondeo

Billy Bunting wrote: »

Check photcell, the black cable dead centre, pull it towards you, bit of a twist if its tight, once out the end should have a nice clean whitish eye, if not clean it with dry cloth.

Checked that, cleaned anyway. It not firing at all now. Goes through the motions but I don't hear the click that it usually makes before it fires.

Shane0007, you thinking a new pump?

Got a feeling I will have to get someone who knows what they are doing out. Anyone know rates? Anyone advise someone good near Mullingar? Don't want a cowboy.

And Thanks to everyone.

Billy Bunting

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

Checked that, cleaned anyway. It not firing at all now. Goes through the motions but I don't hear the click that it usually makes before it fires.

So is it going to lock out ?

OldmanMondeo

Just got it to run again for about 1 minute. knocked itself off, large cloud of dark exhaust. Sorry for being a pest, but I've got 3 small kids to keep warm.

Billy when you say lockout, do you mean all power gone? It was trying to start, and did run for a short period of time.

Billy Bunting

Sorry but if your getting black flue gases you will need the man, the OFTEC man.

http://www.oftec.org/Technicians/index

shane0007

The only reason I thought it was not the photocell is the length of time it ran for before going to lock out.
The only way of knowing its the pump is with a oil pressure gauge. You could take off the pump & see if there is a restriction on the pump spindle but it may not confirm.
It could also be the control box or indeed a faulty photocell as the guys said.
Check www.oftec.org for somebody in your area.

OldmanMondeo

Billy Bunting wrote: »

Sorry but if your getting black flue gases you will need the man, the OFTEC man.

www.oftec.ie

Cheers Billy, not looking good for my wallet so.

shane0007

Black smoke? Back to oil pump so.

Billy Bunting

shane0007 wrote: »

The only reason I thought it was not the photocell is the length of time it ran for before going to lock out.
The only way of knowing its the pump is with a oil pressure gauge. You could take off the pump & see if there is a restriction on the pump spindle but it may not confirm.
It could also be the control box or indeed a faulty photocell as the guys said.
Check www.oftec.org for somebody in your area.

Something i've found over the years i've been here is that a custard could say 30 seconds when its 5 minutes or 12 seconds, and when it comes to a basics custard, basics are the first things to try

OldmanMondeo

Any ideas on a cost for a replacement oil pump? inc labour?

jimf

it could indeed be control box had 1 recently acting just like this but hard to know sitting here in kitchen drinking hot whisky dont you just love the flu

shane0007

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

Any ideas on a cost for a replacement oil pump? inc labour?

Pump is about €90 but seeing that there is soot you will need a service. All in with a service, probably in the region of €180 - €200.

Billy Bunting

And it might just need a good service after that storm last light, my bleedin mrs had me up at 5am to get the fallen tree off our lane, givus some of that whiskey jim.

jimf

Billy Bunting wrote: »

And it might just need a good service after that storm last light, my bleedin mrs had me up at 5am to get the fallen tree off our lane, givus some of that whiskey jim.

just sent a double with lemon and cloves pm on the way hope it dont spill

shane0007

jimf wrote: »

just sent a double with lemon and cloves pm on the way hope it dont spill

Ya can send one my way also. I've been in bed all day with man flu also. Gone gog-eyed watching telly all day.

jimf

shane0007 wrote: »

Ya can send one my way also. I've been in bed all day with man flu also. Gone gog-eyed watching telly all day.

i think its a virus we picked up of billys computer

Billy Bunting

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=man%20flu

Wimps!!!

shane0007

jimf wrote: »

i think its a virus we picked up of billys computer

Well all I know is I never want to see Judge Judy or Jeremy Flamin' Kyle ever again! Never saw such sh1te in my life!

jimf

shane0007 wrote: »

Pump is about €90 but seeing that there is soot you will need a service. All in with a service, probably in the region of €180 - €200.

jaysus you can afford to stay in bed all day with judge judy with prices like this ha ha

shane0007

jimf wrote: »

jaysus you can afford to stay in bed all day with judge judy with prices like this ha ha

€80 for the service + €90 for the pump = €170. As much as I have tried in the past, even asking it nicely, the pump never wants to fit itself for free.

Billy Bunting

I would of though nearer the 200 with nozzle and hose.

jimf

shane0007 wrote: »

€80 for the service + €90 for the pump = €170. As much as I have tried in the past, even asking it nicely, the pump never wants to fit itself for free.

true shane its a lot of money at the moment fitted a pump and full service on stephens day got last payment 2 day but if i didnt do it my name would be **** and give someone else a chance to get a leg in the door

jimf

Billy Bunting wrote: »

I would of though nearer the 200 with nozzle and hose.

jaysus im not calling you if i have a need for an oftec engineer

OldmanMondeo

If it is only €200 then I wouldn't be too unhappy, I heard it could be a hell of a lot more. Thanks lads, now to try and get someone tomorrow, with the part and hope the boss will let me feck off early...

Billy Bunting

jimf wrote: »

jaysus im not calling you if i have a need for an oftec engineer

Sher wont ya get a nice CD11 and an Oftec sticker on the boiler.

jimf

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

If it is only €200 then I wouldn't be too unhappy, I heard it could be a hell of a lot more. Thanks lads, now to try and get someone tomorrow, with the part and hope the boss will let me feck off early...

you should have change for a few pints out of 200e

any service guy worth his salt will have all riello parts in van but make sure hes oftec reg and then you will get fga prinout when job is done

Billy Bunting

Ask them if they use a Flue Gas Anilyser, if no, move on.

OldmanMondeo

Thanks everyone for the help. Just had a plumber out, told him the symptons, he though the oil pump as well, turns out a dirty air lock. Even though oil was comming out for me, there was a lock...

kyeev

shane0007 wrote: »

80+ presses of the reset button! You have most certainly weakened the integrity of the pump! Wouldn't be surprised if it packs in in the not distant future.

Well it was freezing house with wife and screeching 3 month old or get the %#$# oil burner working again!

Oil burner comes on 4 times a day anyway, another 80 starts is an extra 20 days. No big deal I think...