Is it right that Guards hide behind bus stops to catch you speeding...

simo28

I'm sure this can't be right but it wouldn't surprise me in this country. Everywhere I go these days I see guards hiding behind bus stops or corners or anywhere they can't be seen and pointing their camera out to catch speeders. Its damn right scandalous that the guards are behaving in this underhanded way. Why can't they just follow the set up in the UK where they advertise speed camera in 500 meters, 400 meters etc.?
I'm sure someone told me before that the Garda Commissioner Fachtna Murphy had said that if we seen a Garda doing this we should get their number and report them. Does anyone else recall this or know what the story with the guards being sneaky b**tards? Personally I make a point of following the limit as I don't want needless points on my licence but it drives me nuts when I see guards out doing this.

Doyler92

I think it's a great idea. Why should a speeder be aware so they can slow down in 500 metres then speed up again after the camera?

Perfectly good idea imo.

delta_bravo

I know its bloody disgraceful. I heard aswell that they don't give drug dealers the courtesy of a quick phone call to say they are calling round which gives them no time to flush the drugs down the jacks. Its a shambles.

timmywex

Sneaky in that they are in an area where there's loads of pedestrians running for buses and crossing roads!?

Yeh, id say its one of the most essential places to be actually

Godge

simo28 wrote: »

I'm sure this can't be right but it wouldn't surprise me in this country. Everywhere I go these days I see guards hiding behind bus stops or corners or anywhere they can't be seen and pointing their camera out to catch speeders. Its damn right scandalous that the guards are behaving in this underhanded way. Why can't they just follow the set up in the UK where they advertise speed camera in 500 meters, 400 meters etc.?
I'm sure someone told me before that the Garda Commissioner Fachtna Murphy had said that if we seen a Garda doing this we should get their number and report them. Does anyone else recall this or know what the story with the guards being sneaky b**tards? Personally I make a point of following the limit as I don't want needless points on my licence but it drives me nuts when I see guards out doing this.

Don't worry, it is only a passing trend. Once everyone figures it out and stops speeding, they won't need to do it anymore.

dfx-

Doyler92 wrote: »

I think it's a great idea. Why should a speeder be aware so they can slow down in 500 metres then speed up again after the camera?

So put the camera at bus stops...and advertise it.

Hence, safe bus stops and crossings because everyone will slow down then, according to your theory...

Why have Gardaí there? What can they do that cameras cannot and justify being there..

paddydriver

Someone should move this to Motors - the craic and slagging will be mighty:D

mickydoomsux

How dare those crafty fiends do their job! :mad:

dowlingm

I see this in Canada too - it's like law enforcement is only to be done during a "blitz" which has a guard on Six-One talking to a camera with traffic going by.

My Canadian wife was horrified to hear that if you fight a traffic ticket in Ireland and you lose the penalty is higher. Traffic courts in Canada are clogged with people chancing their arm that the plod won't give evidence because it's a one-way bet.

bmaxi

I don.t see it as necessary for Gardaí to hide behind walls etc. If the object of the exercise was to stop speeding then surely, well advertised speed cameras would achieve that. The object of the exercise is, however, revenue collection.

kwalshe

in holland they have covert speed cameras hidden in wheelie bins beside the road

Godge

bmaxi wrote: »

I don.t see it as necessary for Gardaí to hide behind walls etc. If the object of the exercise was to stop speeding then surely, well advertised speed cameras would achieve that. The object of the exercise is, however, revenue collection.

Irish drivers will only slow down for the cameras and then speed up again. We would need cameras every hundred metres.

slimjimmc

dowlingm wrote: »

I see this in Canada too - it's like law enforcement is only to be done during a "blitz" which has a guard on Six-One talking to a camera with traffic going by.

My Canadian wife was horrified to hear that if you fight a traffic ticket in Ireland and you lose the penalty is higher. Traffic courts in Canada are clogged with people chancing their arm that the plod won't give evidence because it's a one-way bet.

The penalty isn't upped, what the judge gives you is the full penalty if guilty. The traffic ticket offers you an opportunity to admit your guilt and accept a reduced penalty for not wasting court time with frivilous arguments. It's good system, Canada should take note.

ardmacha

Sometimes they put signs like this, that tell you what speed you can do without having to worry.

Cookie_Monster

They wouldn't make any money if they used proper enforcement methods like in the UK...

dfx-

Godge wrote: »

Irish drivers will only slow down for the cameras and then speed up again. We would need cameras every hundred metres.

We need the cameras in particular places, not every hundred metres..

And by your admission, where the cameras are, people would be slow..

Son Of A Vidic

Godge wrote: »

Irish drivers will only slow down for the cameras and then speed up again.

A behaviour not exclusive to Irish drivers I can assure you.

Guy:Incognito

bmaxi wrote: »

I don.t see it as necessary for Gardaí to hide behind walls etc. If the object of the exercise was to stop speeding then surely, well advertised speed cameras would achieve that. The object of the exercise is, however, revenue collection.

If the gards could be anywhere, you slow down everywhere.

foggy_lad

Stekelly wrote: »

If the gards could be anywhere, you slow down everywhere.

+1 for guards hidden in wheelie bins and maybe there wont be as many stupid deaths and horrible injuries from dangerous fools speeding just because they think they are good drivers.

Not enough people are fined and get points for speeding so anything that increases the number that get this warning for speeding is a good thing!

parsi

kwalshe wrote: »

in holland they have covert speed cameras hidden in wheelie bins beside the road

What happens on bin day ?

PCPhoto

back on topic:
my answer to the question

"is it right that Guards hide behind bus stops to catch you speeding ?"

No - its not right - but its the only way to encourage people to stop speeding - a static speed camera will only encourage people to slow down coming into the area - and in general return to their speed immediately after they pass the camera.

I think what this country needs is an increased Garda presence - cars on the roads, Gardai on foot, more random breathalyzer checks, speed checks ..... Garda Traffic Corps with a ZERO tolerance - it may take years but if we have a zero tolerance with breaking the traffic laws and FULL enforcement - people will eventually "Learn" to obey the rules.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not a perfect driver, I don't believe such a thing exists in this country (road speeds are not appropriate for some roads so its not just the drivers fault) but a full-time enforcement instead of a rare "blitz" ... its nearly christmas we're gonna be out catching people with breathalyzers... or ...it's a bank holiday weekend - lets see who's speeding .

Enforcement on a full-time basis is the way forward.

corktina

ah come on SOMEONE agree with the OP...

old_aussie

It's right and it's fair to put camera's anywhere they want to.

bmaxi

My point is that Gardaí hiding in bus shelters does not have the effect of slowing down traffic, it is purely a punitive measure.
A good example is at Kilmacanogue, where there are regular speed checks.Traffic slows down noticeably on approach, whether or not the check is there, to the effect that it is not necessary to have the check there 24/7, a camera would have the same effect.
So is the objective really to slow down traffic at blackspots? I think not.

foggy_lad

bmaxi wrote: »

My point is that Gardaí hiding in bus shelters does not have the effect of slowing down traffic, it is purely a punitive measure.
A good example is at Kilmacanogue, where there are regular speed checks.Traffic slows down noticeably on approach, whether or not the check is there, to the effect that it is not necessary to have the check there 24/7, a camera would have the same effect.
So is the objective really to slow down traffic at blackspots? I think not.

i totally agree with the punative aspect of this as how else are people who regularly offend going to be educated and punished for breaking the law if not by actuallly fining them and giving them penalty points?

bmaxi

foggy_lad wrote: »

i totally agree with the punative aspect of this as how else are people who regularly offend going to be educated and punished for breaking the law if not by actuallly fining them and giving them penalty points?

All right, you travel through a 50 kph area at 100kph, lurking Garda takes a nice photo of you. Result for him, another capture, €100 fine and three points on your licence but you are still travelling at 100kph. Meanwhile the young mother with two children crossing the road 100 yards away is sent hurtling through the air. You could have stopped if you were doing 50, 60, even 70kph but not at 100kph. Which is the better result prevention or punishment?
If the speed camera was advertised you would probably have slowed, after all nobody wants to be fined or lose their licence but because the deterrent was invisible you didn't.
I'm not suggesting motorists who break the law should not be punished, just that it shouldn't be the sole deterrent.

Ham'nd'egger

bmaxi wrote: »

I don.t see it as necessary for Gardaí to hide behind walls etc. If the object of the exercise was to stop speeding then surely, well advertised speed cameras would achieve that. The object of the exercise is, however, revenue collection.

If law enforcement is done for revenue collection then surely in these recessionary times the Gardaí ought to have even more speed cameras to rake it all in.

tommylimerick

yip i kinda agree with the op
in a local village near me the gardai are often at the very start of the 30k limit hiding behind a wall even though there s no build up for about another 300 meters
also why not put speed limiters into cars ?

bmaxi

Hamndegger wrote: »

If law enforcement is done for revenue collection then surely in these recessionary times the Gardaí ought to have even more speed cameras to rake it all in.

It's not the number of speed cameras that's in question here, it's the method of employment.

seanaway

Do you not understand that if they didn't hide you might have time to aim your car at them?

punchdrunk

I think the Guards should use whatever means are necessary to get as many muppets off our roads as possible

-Chris-

seanaway wrote: »

Do you not understand that if they didn't hide you might have time to aim your car at them?

I doubt anyone's stupid enough to (or to advocate) driving at or over a Garda, or any other road user.

seanaway

who's advocating it? I simply mentioned a fear Gardai may have. Or possibly the original poster was ight and they're being sneaky instead of professional.

-Chris-

Maybe you need to be sneaky in order to do your job properly (i.e. being professional) when your job is catching people doing things that they don't want to be caught doing.

foggy_lad

bmaxi wrote: »

All right, you travel through a 50 kph area at 100kph, lurking Garda takes a nice photo of you. Result for him, another capture, €100 fine and three points on your licence but you are still travelling at 100kph. Meanwhile the young mother with two children crossing the road 100 yards away is sent hurtling through the air. You could have stopped if you were doing 50, 60, even 70kph but not at 100kph. Which is the better result prevention or punishment?
If the speed camera was advertised you would probably have slowed, after all nobody wants to be fined or lose their licence but because the deterrent was invisible you didn't.
I'm not suggesting motorists who break the law should not be punished, just that it shouldn't be the sole deterrent.

yes you get caught but in such situations the garda would usually follow and stop someone and report them for other offences such as dangerous driving and it would be a court appearnce rather than just a fine and points! why do you think they have cars and motorbikes at checkpoints if not to follow and stop these type of reckless drivers.

if you do the crime you need to be ready to pay the price for your own actions.

seanaway

Maybe so. Then again if we had a proper traffic police force we might find things improving. Most Traffic Corps Guards I have seen are not the greatest. My best one to date was nearly being hit by one as she exited the Garda Station whilst using her mobile phone. Some example! As for the number who can't seem to use a roundabout properly ...!!!

The rank and file Gardai are some of the best I have dealt with anywhere in the world. However, the paymasters display an inability to understand what it takes to police traffic properly so the cop on the beat finds it acceptable to 'hide'.

Education and proper enforcement would be much better than the equivalent of someone hitting you from behind to make you pay attention to what's in fornt.

-Chris-

seanaway wrote: »

Maybe so. Then again if we had a proper traffic police force we might find things improving. Most Traffic Corps Guards I have seen are not the greatest. My best one to date was nearly being hit by one as she exited the Garda Station whilst using her mobile phone. Some example! As for the number who can't seem to use a roundabout properly ...!!!

This isn't a Garda-bashing thread (or forum), I don't see how the above adds to the discussion at hand.

seanaway wrote: »

The rank and file Gardai are some of the best I have dealt with anywhere in the world. However, the paymasters display an inability to understand what it takes to police traffic properly so the cop on the beat finds it acceptable to 'hide'.

But this is the point of the thread - why do you think it's unacceptable to hide?

seanaway wrote: »

Education and proper enforcement would be much better than the equivalent of someone hitting you from behind to make you pay attention to what's in fornt.

Education isn't the responsibility of the Gardai.

corktina

well, if they are hiding, you don't know where they are and if you don't know that, you are likely to drive within the speed limits everywhere which is the object of the exercise. (a pox on revenue collection urban myths BTW)

seanaway

I'm not garda bashing! I actually have great respect for the force.

I'm simply pointing out a fact. I don't agree that they should hide. it's simply not professional. I disagree that education isn't part of a Garda's job. No-one's asking them to stand in class - but a simple word of caution & explanation as to why someoneis being stopped can often do more than the punitive time wasting that goes on with people turning up in court becasue of no fine being issued.

ps I've never had a speeding ticket in ANY of the dozen countries I've lived and worked in. Nor a parking ticket for that matter. Speed limits are not targets - but that does not mean someone should be 'caught' by sneaky means. Speed cameras are there to not only catch people - they are intended as a deterrent. Hiding one does not help.

Oink

I was caught doing 60kph in a 50kph zone (inattention).

Well, I can tell you, I FULLY exercised my GOD-GIVEN RIGHT to pay the fine and STFU. That showed them.

EDIT: I don't care if/where/how they were hiding. That's completely beside the point.

bmaxi

foggy_lad wrote: »

yes you get caught but in such situations the garda would usually follow and stop someone and report them for other offences such as dangerous driving and it would be a court appearnce rather than just a fine and points! why do you think they have cars and motorbikes at checkpoints if not to follow and stop these type of reckless drivers.

if you do the crime you need to be ready to pay the price for your own actions.

Without going too deeply into mechanics or indeed semantics, in the scenario I painted, it would be too late.
Again I must stress, my argument is not about the punishment or lack of, of offending motorists but the fact that the manner of deployment of speed cameras is more of a revenue raising than a road safety issue.
I have travelled all over the country and have yet to see a motorist approach a visible or discernible Garda checkpoint at high speed.

seanaway

I completely agree BMAXI. The point of speed cameras should be deterrence and creating awareness - not money grabbing.

RobbieTheRobber

bmaxi wrote: »

Without going too deeply into mechanics or indeed semantics, in the scenario I painted, it would be too late.
Again I must stress, my argument is not about the punishment or lack of, of offending motorists but the fact that the manner of deployment of speed cameras is more of a revenue raising than a road safety issue.
I have travelled all over the country and have yet to see a motorist approach a visible or discernible Garda checkpoint at high speed.

So your solution to speeding would be to what, place visible garda checkpoints along all routes every 1km or so then is it?

People have to feel a risk that they will be directly affected by their own speeding so they dont do it rather than having to be monitored at ever step like bold children.

Ham'nd'egger

bmaxi wrote: »

It's not the number of speed cameras that's in question here, it's the method of employment.

Of course, if people didn't break the law by speeding to begin with then Gardaí wouldn't need to go to such measures in the first place;)

Paddysnapper

Hamndegger wrote: »

Of course, if people didn't break the law by speeding to begin with then Gardaí wouldn't need to go to such measures in the first place;)

100% agree:)

Cookie_Monster

Hamndegger wrote: »

Of course, if people didn't break the law by speeding to begin with then Gardaí wouldn't need to go to such measures in the first place;)

of course if speed limits over here were realistic many people would not be breaking them

Ham'nd'egger

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

of course if speed limits over here were realistic many people would not be breaking them

Speed limits are quite realistic in urban areas and most people have no problem adhering to them. The fact that most western countries have similar limits to us should illustrate that they are sound in practice.

As an aside, have you lobbied your TD, council or the AA to adjust any local limits you feel are unrealistic? How fast do you think it's safe and fair to drive around urban areas? 80KMH? 100KMH? Or whatever you can get away with?;)

bmaxi

Hamndegger wrote: »

Of course, if people didn't break the law by speeding to begin with then Gardaí wouldn't need to go to such measures in the first place;)

If people didn't break any laws, there'd be no need for Gardaí at all.

Ash.J.Williams

Where did the Op go?

Cookie_Monster

Hamndegger wrote: »

Speed limits are quite realistic in urban areas and most people have no problem adhering to them. The fact that most western countries have similar limits to us should illustrate that they are sound in practice.

most are, yes I have no problem agreeing with that. But there are many many cases where the gardai are set up metres from a downwards speed change which is purely about rev gen, or roads with silly limits like the N11 only being 60 from Donnybrook onwards outbound or many old national roads now being only 80 from 100. aside from that 100 of interurbans is too low and 120 on motorways is too low also IMO

Hamndegger wrote: »

As an aside, have you lobbied your TD, council or the AA to adjust any local limits you feel are unrealistic? How fast do you think it's safe and fair to drive around urban areas? 80KMH? 100KMH? Or whatever you can get away with?;)

no I haven't but that said a few local limits have gone up around here recently
Notably the N11 to 80 for a stretch

seanaway

If anyone has travelled the Waterford N25 bypass - motorway standard road- you would notice the lack of speed limit signs. It's VERY easy to do more than 100kph on it. This especially as the muppets who designed it added long seeping hills instead of flyovers. Even the chap at the NRA agreed with me about signposting there.

Guess where the Guards position their speed traps? At the bottom the the hill after a long slow rising hill. I don't speed but have caught myself more than once pushing it as I came downhill.

These roads are not the most dangerous.. They are built for speed. Put cameras in towns where poeple often do 60 in a 50. Much more dangerous than 120 on a 100 limit motorway standard road.