Does it bother you when you read of women being deprived of freedom elsewhere?.

Freiheit

Harrowing article in todays Sunday Times about the plight of women in the increasingly Islamicised Chechnya. Being forced to wear headscarf and long clothing. Polygamy allowed and a President who says that the role of a lady is to bear children solely. I felt sad. Many similar examples across the globe.

Does it register with you or is it too distant?.

seenitall

Of course it registers, same as any other issue about women around the world being opressed and treated like second-class citizens at best and like chattel at worst. Which is, realistically, the matter in about half of world's general population or so.

The fact of the matter is that women are the weaker sex, and this is why they are being treated like this in poor and ignorant cultures - because in those societies things are very basic, primitive and "cutthroat". If you are constantly worrying where your next meal is coming from, there is no call to be "nice" to those weaker than yourself, in fact use and abuse of anything that walks, swims or crawls is the name of the game. (Incidentally, that's also why vegetarians are very thin on the ground in these same societies!) Then, once a religion like Islam enters the equation, sanctioning this behaviour, all bets are off, unfortunately. There is absolutely nothing I can do about this.

All I can say is (as I have said many times before), I feel soooo lucky to be living in the West, you've no idea. Especially as even the Western countries put profit before human rights anyway, so I don't think anything is changing in the world any time soon on that score.

panda100

seenitall wrote: »

The fact of the matter is that women are the weaker sex, and this is why they are being treated like this in poor and ignorant cultures - because in those societies things are very basic, primitive and "cutthroat". If you are constantly worrying where your next meal is coming from, there is no call to be "nice" to those weaker than yourself, in fact use and abuse of anything that walks, swims or crawls is the name of the game. (Incidentally, that's also why vegetarians are very thin on the ground in these same societies!)

Its nothing to do with women being the 'weaker sex' and I am quite offended by that suggestion.
Black people were oppressed for centuries all around the world does this mean they are inherently a 'weaker race'?

There's always going to be oppression of certain sectors of society that are rooted in class and patriarchal systems.
By claiming women are in this position because they are a weaker sex and 'nice' makes it incredibly difficult for women,especially in Muslim and some African countries, to overcome this permanent image as a helpless and voiceless victim.

The media are quick to portray the brutality and oppression of women in Muslim countries as the manifestation of Muslim ideology,however it never attaches Christian or any other religion to the headlines about the brutality and oppression against women in non-Muslim countries.

seenitall

panda100 wrote: »

Its nothing to do with women being the 'weaker sex' and I am quite offended by that suggestion.
Black people were oppressed for centuries all around the world does this mean they are inherently a 'weaker race'?

There's always going to be oppression of certain sectors of society that are rooted in class and patriarchal systems.
By claiming women are in this position because they are a weaker sex and 'nice' makes it incredibly difficult for women,especially in Muslim and some African countries, to overcome this permanent image as a helpless and voiceless victim.

The media are quick to portray the brutality and oppression of women in Muslim countries as the manifestation of Muslim ideology,however it never attaches Christian or any other religion to the headlines about the brutality and oppression against women in non-Muslim countries.

Huh? But they ARE the weaker sex, surely that biological fact cannot have escaped your attention? As for black people/native Americans/colonised nations in general, they were/are oppressed as they are either in a great minority in some countries (USA), or, originally and more importantly, because they were, simply put, fighting guns and cannons of their colonisers/oppressors with spears and arrows. Not difficult to predict the outcome of those wars.

It all comes down to who is stronger = who has the upper hand. Unfortunately, it really does.

The Agogo

It's not only women who are oppressed.

Concern should be given to all oppressed peoples. Like political activists in Burma, and countless other examples that I'm too lazy to name right now.

Jules

Yes, bu this is the ladies lounge so we concentrate on the ladies perspective!

panda100

I am shocked that someone in this day and age believe women worldwide are deservedly oppressed because men are physically stronger than women.
Do you really believe that men's physical strength rationalises their dominance? That full Social Status must be linked to physical ability?

Attitudes that women are physical weaker and so must be ruled by men must be challenged if women worldwide are to gain full equality. The perception of physical weakness is bound up with social inequality with absolutely no basis in its reasoning. Physical fitness has absolutely no baring on whom and whom should not be treated as a second class citizen.

Its that type of prejudice that keeps those withs disability and the elderly completly oppressed in our societys too.

Links234

yes, it bothers me deeply.

seenitall

panda100 wrote: »

I am shocked that someone in this day and age believe women worldwide are deservedly oppressed because men are physically stronger than women.
Do you really believe that men's physical strength rationalises their dominance? That full Social Status must be linked to physical ability?

Attitudes that women are physical weaker and so must be ruled by men must be challenged is women worldwide are moved forward. The perception of physical weakness is bound up with social inequality with absolutely no basis in its reasoning. Physical fitness has absolutely no baring on whom and whom should not be treated as a second class citizen.

Its that type of prejudice that keeps those disability and the elderly completly oppressed in our societys too.

Again, huh? I do hope that this post is not aimed at me, as it has nothing to do with my posts whatsoever. Where did I say in my posts that anyone anywhere is "deservedly oppressed"? Nowhere. I just stated some simple biological and even social facts that unfortunately have a lot of bearing on the condition of the world around us. I am not "rationalising" anything, merely describing reality. Physical ability is very much linked to social status in A LOT of societies, if not most. Just consider how disabled people are treated in poor societies. Certainly not as apples of anyone's eye.

(OK, I have just realised that I have been re-iterating both mine and your posts, panda... my point is that the world is not what it should be like, of course. This is all I have been saying. I think you completely misunderstood my meaning, as I wholeheartedly agree oppression is not something people should agree with or a good or a right thing. On the contrary.)

Chuchoter

It bothers me, but I don't think we can really do anything about it. We're 'the west' and everything we say is going to get written off as rich Europeans and Americans attacking eastern cultures again. Sadly, if the women in these countries want equality, they'll have to stand up and take it. I know that would be incredibly difficult, but thats just the way it is.

seenitall

seenitall wrote: »

As for black people/native Americans/colonised nations in general, they were/are oppressed as they are either in a great minority in some countries (USA), or, originally and more importantly, because they were, simply put, fighting guns and cannons of their colonisers/oppressors with spears and arrows. Not difficult to predict the outcome of those wars.

Not to mention the black nations were selling their own people off, can't really argue too well when your leader shows up and says you're for sale

MagicMarker

To westerners it's cruel and incomprehensible but for some women in Islam it's how you must live your life in order to serve Allah. It's truly depressing that people still think like this but a lot of women don't know any different.

I highly recommend reading Infidel by Ayaan Hirsi Ali to get an inside look at this way of life and the impact it can have.

Permabear

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ztoical

seenitall wrote: »

The fact of the matter is that women are the weaker sex, and this is why they are being treated like this in poor and ignorant cultures - because in those societies things are very basic, primitive and "cutthroat". If you are constantly worrying where your next meal is coming from, there is no call to be "nice" to those weaker than yourself, in fact use and abuse of anything that walks, swims or crawls is the name of the game.

Japan would not be considered a poor or ignorant culture and it's certainly not a place were people are living in basic or primitive conditions yet women are treated poorly there and the 2009 the Global Gender Gap place Japan 101 [out 134 countries] well below much poorer countries including several muslim countries.

seenitall

ztoical wrote: »

Japan would not be considered a poor or ignorant culture and it's certainly not a place were people are living in basic or primitive conditions yet women are treated poorly there and the 2009 the Global Gender Gap place Japan 101 [out 134 countries] well below much poorer countries including several muslim countries.

OK, yes. I would still maintain that Japan and any similar nations are exceptions to the rule of poverty breeds inequality, or better put yet inequality is fed by poverty. The vast majority of the nations where women are unequal, are underdeveloped or outright poor (which is, again, about half of the world, if not more, in my amateurish estimation? Anyone have any figures?).

Japan is an interesting example of a very traditional and rigid, while being rich, society, in every way, not just as far as women are concerned. (I have read somewhere that island nations tend to stick to a traditional mentality more than the rest?) Anyway, things are changing over there, AFAIK...

cdaly_

donegalfella wrote: »

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Let us not forget that our own Holy Roman Catholic Church has been and remains a long-standing bastion of misogynistic claptrap. 'Tis not just the Muslims...

bronte

It enrages me to be honest. I can't understand how being female in 2010 results in such treatment. Nothing pisses me off more.

wonton

cdaly_ wrote: »

Let us not forget that our own Holy Roman Catholic Church has been and remains a long-standing bastion of misogynistic claptrap. 'Tis not just the Muslims...

ffs we know its not just the bloody muslims but its 2010 and right fecking now in yemen the legal age of consent is 9 years old, and why is it nine years old?

because a lovely chap called muhhamed married a girl at 6 but he was nice enough to wait till she was nine to have sex with her.




i seen this article on the web awhile ago too about female circumsion, has short video on it about it too, very disturbing stuff.........

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/video/2010/jul/25/girls-facing-female-circumcision


appearantly its nearly as high as 90 percent of girls have undergone it in egypt, ethiopia, sudan and somalia.

Permabear

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krudler

bluewolf wrote: »

Not to mention the black nations were selling their own people off, can't really argue too well when your leader shows up and says you're for sale

Good point, slavery existed in Africa long before the slave traders from America showed up.

wonton

krudler wrote: »

Good point, slavery existed in Africa long before the slave traders from America showed up.

how the hell is that a good point?


there was also slavery in ireland before the brittish came, does that justify cromwell sending thousands of irish slaves to the carribean?