Satellite setup help

Dr Nic

Hi Guys,
Im having trouble putting up my FTA dish.
Im using my neighbours dish as a guide and the SNR panel on my receiver which is reading 0 for all values.

When i do a satellite scan it finds nothing at astra 28,2
Can anyone help please?
Thanks
John

carbsy

Dr Nic wrote: »

Hi Guys,
Im having trouble putting up my FTA dish.
Im using my neighbours dish as a guide and the SNR panel on my receiver which is reading 0 for all values.

When i do a satellite scan it finds nothing at astra 28,2
Can anyone help please?
Thanks
John

You'll need to tell us a lot more information that that mate.What receiver etc?

For a start your dish looks like it has the wrong elevation angle (it's pointing up when it should look like it's pointing down to a degree).

What part of the country are in? The reason I ask is that we can tell you the correct elevation angle then as your current elevation angle is definetly wrong.

steveon

Your first problem is your using a LIDL dish which are complete rubbish, secondly you are using a sky quad lnb not designed for the dish.

You will need to align the dish as well as adjust the skew of the lnb e.g turn left and rite...may not work rite with that dish...and what a horrible location to put a dish in the first place...aaaaaaaaaaa

Would be more appropriate and may be necessary to put onto the side of your chimney...

carbsy

steveon wrote: »

Your first problem is your using a LIDL dish which are complete rubbish,

Alright, we know you sell satellite gear but that dish is fine for 28.2 ffs and you know it.It's obvious the he has the wrong elevation angle.

watty

At least it's sheltered from the Wind there. The bracket & mount wouldn't take the wind on chimney, nor is acess easy to install or replace items without specialist training and gear.

(I can access my chimney without any ladders )

Start with dish straight and do small slow movements left/right & up/down.

The Sky Quad should work fine on the larger dish. Maybe even more rain margin. The Sky Dish is OK to Mid West, but is actually undersized for non-2D beams in far West, North West and South west.

Unless you have a valid transponder selected the satellite box will never give a reading!
make sure a transponder on this page is selected:
http://www.lyngsat.com/astra2d.html

The Signal Level and Quality are not Actual physical direct measurements. It can take a second or two or more of signal before the box "sees" a signal and locks to it (assuming you selected a valid Frequency and Polarity of Transponder). Then the box calculates the two bargraphs.

So you need to move dish very very slowly.

steveon

carbsy wrote: »

Alright, we know you sell satellite gear but that dish is fine for 28.2 ffs and you know it.It's obvious the he has the wrong elevation angle.

There fine for a few weeks, then the weak bar attaching it to the wall breaks as they are poorly manufactured...secondly the plastic elevation bracket will give way...

watty

If or When that happens (and it might not if it's sheltered), then he can buy a proper dish and will be able to align it faster.

Yes, those Dish design is poor and welds on L bar to plate is terrible. But they don't always break.

meercat

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055570579
might help

Tom Slick

Are Sky LNBs not matched to the dish shape?(wider/flatter). Why so sure it's a Sky Quad?

Dr Nic

Thanks Guys,
Yes its a Sky quad. I didnt think it would matter. Does it?
I still have the Lidl dual so i can just use that. I've seen some Sky dishes with all kinds of quads on them and twisted around so that it looked ridiculous. Must still work though.

Im using a Dm500s with edg nemesis image.
I have the right transponder selected i think. I used it to watch bbc etc from a sky dish just yesterday. Now when i do a scan on Astra/Eurobird 28.2 it doesnt find anything

Im in Limerick and i've no idea how to get an elevation angle. the back of the lidl dish has increments and numbers but i read that you get best rain stability by using the bracket upside down so i dont know if i can use those numbers anymore?

Thanks for your help
John

Ps - if this dish is crap i'll get another but since i had it at home and never been able to do this myself, i wanted to give it a go...

St Senan

carbsy wrote: »

Alright, we know you sell satellite gear but that dish is fine for 28.2 ffs and you know it.It's obvious the he has the wrong elevation angle.

Any guy in the Tv/satellite trade will tell you that these dishes are pure crap.
As Steveon has already said the wall bracket will be the first to go in a strong wind and if you look closely at the OP's picture you will see that he has only 3 bolts holding the bracket to the wall.

carbsy

scaller wrote: »

Any guy in the Tv/satellite trade will tell you that these dishes are pure crap.
As Steveon has already said the wall bracket will be the first to go in a strong wind and if you look closely at the OP's picture you will see that he has only 3 bolts holding the bracket to the wall.

He said the dish was rubbish not the wall bracket.IMHO the dish is fine for 28.2 as in it should work for a few years at least.... I use Triax dishes myself but I have a few friends who have no problems with the large LIDL dishes for 28.2 as it's hardly a hard satellite to receive.

P.S. A large plate could pick up 28.2

Cantona's Collars

Scaller and the guys are right-just look around when you're out and about to see how many lidl and aldi dishes are falling off walls,pointing to the ground or sticking out of a wheelie bin-a waste of time and money.A sky dish and lnb can be picked up for small money these days,just invest in one of these.A bargain is not a bargain when it ends up in the bin or costs money in the long run.

carbsy

zerks wrote: »

Scaller and the guys are right-just look around when you're out and about to see how many lidl and aldi dishes are falling off walls,pointing to the ground or sticking out of a wheelie bin-a waste of time and money.A sky dish and lnb can be picked up for small money these days,just invest in one of these.A bargain is not a bargain when it ends up in the bin or costs money in the long run.

Look, I'm just trying to save the guy money and not have to buy another dish.He has already bought the dish and mounted it and there is no need for another.It would be different if he hadn't already bought it!

St Senan

carbsy wrote: »

He said the dish was rubbish not the wall bracket.IMHO the dish is fine for 28.2 as in it should work for a few years at least.... I use Triax dishes myself but I have a few friends who have no problems with the large LIDL dishes for 28.2 as it's hardly a hard satellite to receive.

P.S. A large plate could pick up 28.2

The black plastic bracket on the large Lidl dish will crack and break where it is bolted to the dish. The other satellite kit lidl sell is to small here in Ireland.
There is numerous threads on here about the Lidl/Aldi Free to Air kits. There is some guys saying that these are good value for money and then there is guys like Steveon Myself and other installers who will not touch these crap dishes. We trying to give people like Dr Nic advice on satellite equipment that will last a longer in a strong wind.

carbsy

scaller wrote: »

The black plastic bracket on the large Lidl dish will crack and break where it is bolted to the dish. The other satellite kit lidl sell is to small here in Ireland.
There is numerous threads on here about the Lidl/Aldi Free to Air kits. There is some guys saying that these are good value for money and then there is guys like Steveon Myself and other installers who will not touch these crap dishes. We trying to give people like Dr Nic advice on satellite equipment that will last a longer in a strong wind.

I understand your side of the things scaller and am all too aware about of small dishes size being sold in ALDI/LIDL which are as much use as a small saucer in Ireland.

It's just that he has already bought it and mounted it and imho it's fine for 28.2 without the OP having to fork out more cash to 'installers'.

Anyhow installers v enthusiasts (me and others) - we beg to differ.

watty

Agreed it's rubbish. They are rotten value for money.

But he might as well have a go at setting it up and if it breaks (reasonably likely within a year) he will have gained experience and will buy an all metal dish + sturdy bracket.

carbsy

watty wrote: »

Agreed it's rubbish. They are rotten value for money.

But he might as well have a go at setting it up and if it breaks (reasonably likely within a year) he will have gained experience and will buy an all metal dish + sturdy bracket.

That's all I was trying to say.

watty

zerks wrote: »

A sky dish and lnb can be picked up for small money these days,just invest in one of these.A bargain is not a bargain when it ends up in the bin or costs money in the long run.

I'd not buy a Sky dish. Mesh is cheap substandard compared with solid. Mesh is simply for lower manufacturing and transportation costs. They have to be slathered in paint to avoid rusting to death.

Can't easily be re-adjusted as the bolts all rust.

Also MOST solid Dishes will work on Ka Band. I'd suspect the holes in Sky dish are bit big. Most Mesh dishes for Ku won't work on Ka, just like C-Band Mesh dishes mostly don't work on Ku.
See how much Ka is coming? http://www.lyngsat.com/launches/ka.html
Some up already, but Lyngsat doesn't list Ka transponders yet.
Saorsat is Ka Band.

watty

carbsy wrote: »

That's all I was trying to say.

This web stuff is harder than sitting in a Pub with Pint or nice Coffee bar with sticky bun and double Expresso.

So hard to get the nuances.

Though it's less painful on Web2.0 if you get the Nuances wrong than in Pub with some folk that have too many

carbsy

watty wrote: »

This web stuff is harder than sitting in a Pub with Pint or nice Coffee bar with sticky bun and double Expresso.

So hard to get the nuances.

Though it's less painful on Web2.0 if you get the Nuances wrong than in Pub with some folk that have too many

hehe or even worse on Web2.0 with someone who's had too many!

Tom Slick

Tom Slick wrote: »

Are Sky LNBs not matched to the dish shape?(wider/flatter). Why so sure it's a Sky Quad?

Hate to quote myself....BTW most dish "failures" are caused by bad installation(buy a decent drill ).Tightening ALL the bolts helps too.

watty

Yes. The focus rings on an LNB for a Sky dish "should" suit shape. But a larger dish as long as F/d is roughly the same will give more signal. The major thing to avoid is the F/d such that the LNB feed "sees" much wider than the dish. That picks up noise. Seeing "smaller" than diameter of the larger dish isn't an issue if you are using the bigger dish where the smaller one works.

Tom Slick

Hmmm...must experiment with bits 'n' pieces.(lot of single output Sky LNBs & some "broken" dishes).

steveon

carbsy wrote: »

I understand your side of the things scaller and am all too aware about of small dishes size being sold in ALDI/LIDL which are as much use as a small saucer in Ireland.

It's just that he has already bought it and mounted it and imho it's fine for 28.2 without the OP having to fork out more cash to 'installers'.

Anyhow installers v enthusiasts (me and others) - we beg to differ.

It amazes me how many people attack us when we try and give advice, If I sold a Lidl dish to some1 it wouldnt be long before he came on here and gave out about it. I have put up loads of Lidl dishes to simply please the customer(Give them what they want) and warned them about the dishes failing, snapping and bending, they are after all made of light metal and a plastic backing. The bracket is so poorly welded that it falls apart. It is for this reason I now no longer put them up due to people screaming at me afterwards when they do fail...they are dangerous and I have seen quite a few of them fall off of houses, from self so enthusiasts putting them up.

I am all for the Diy-er and encourage it with the right equipment and right tools. A triax dish as you mentioned is a fantastic and well made dish and should not in any form or way be compared with a lidl frisbee..

Dr Nic

Thanks Guys for all the help and opinions.
I paid nothing for the dish, thats why im using it.

Can anyone help me get a signal please?
As i've said its in the general direction as all the rest of the houses in the estate, which is just off parallel to the front of the house. By eye the elevation looks similiar but maybe its way off.

Any help?
I think regardless if i had a Nasa satellite dish, i'd still have the same problem im having
Thanks
John

watty

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=67955349&postcount=5

In the photo the dish is way off. Needs to lean forward about 10 degrees more.

Re-read my post. Without correct transponder selected on set-box (frequency & polarity & Symbol rate) you will NEVER see a signal.

Patience and move about 0.5 degree a second or slower. up/down and left/right

Your first find may be wrong satellite. There are about 20 you can receive. Post what channels a scan finds when you do find a signal, if the scan has not got UK channels and we will be able to tell you which way and how much to move the dish.

1) Make sure the correct Transponder settings or the box never shows signal
2) If there is an elevation scale start at 22.5 degrees. The dish may even appear to point at ground slightly!
3) Very slow movements up/down (elevation) at each azimuth (move east/west aka left/right about 1 degree at a time).

Different dishes have different "offsets" some are pointing up at 30 degrees when they appear vertical.

Dr Nic

Thanks Watty,
I never had to select a transponder before.
I just did an automatic scan and it found all the fta channels.

Do you know what tranponder is the right one for fta/sky channels?
Im using a dm500s which seems to have a load of built in transponders which it scans through

watty

read my post...it has a link to 2D on lyngsat. Pick one of them
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=67955349&postcount=5

You can't scan until you HAVE a signal. Hence it might be sitting at a transponder that has weaker signal or not used. Maybe the transponder it's on is OK. I don't know as you never said.

The 2D list are the strongest signals of the seven beams making up UK TV here.

carbsy

steveon wrote: »

It amazes me how many people attack us when we try and give advice, If I sold a Lidl dish to some1 it wouldnt be long before he came on here and gave out about it. I have put up loads of Lidl dishes to simply please the customer(Give them what they want) and warned them about the dishes failing, snapping and bending, they are after all made of light metal and a plastic backing. The bracket is so poorly welded that it falls apart. It is for this reason I now no longer put them up due to people screaming at me afterwards when they do fail...they are dangerous and I have seen quite a few of them fall off of houses, from self so enthusiasts putting them up.

I am all for the Diy-er and encourage it with the right equipment and right tools. A triax dish as you mentioned is a fantastic and well made dish and should not in any form or way be compared with a lidl frisbee..

Sorry steveon, I didn't mean to come across as an ass lol

I think we are going OT here as the original question was how to get working what the OP has already installed and not how bad it may be!

I actually buy quite a bit of stuff from your site myself (Triax dishses / switches etc) and I can vouch for it being good gear etc just to set the record straight.

Dr Nic

watty wrote: »

read my post...it has a link to 2D on lyngsat. Pick one of them
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=67955349&postcount=5

You can't scan until you HAVE a signal. Hence it might be sitting at a transponder that has weaker signal or not used. Maybe the transponder it's on is OK. I don't know as you never said.

The 2D list are the strongest signals of the seven beams making up UK TV here.

I did read that link but its not exactly a clear,readable site.
What is an example frequency, polarity symbol rate?

watty

Scroll to BBC London for instance

In start of block on centre right it has beside logo
Freesat [LyngSat Address] [UplinkStation] DVB 22000-5/6 2-2045

in left margin it has
10773 H

Frequency = 10773MHz = 10.773 GHz
Polarity = H = Horizontal
symbol rate 22000 K sym/s = 22.0M sym/s
FEC = 5/6 (or auto)

You should not need to create a transponder. Scroll through the list already in the box for 28.2E Astra/Eurobird and stop at one on the web page.
If the software is even slightly up to date, the Polarity, Symbol rate and FEC should match when you have a correct frequency.

ALL satellite boxes (even Sky on hidden menu) have an install menu where the transponder can be selected and you see the signal level.

To DIY install a Satellite Dish and receiver there is a lot to learn. Paying an expert several hundred euro for time is a bargain. No Expert will install that dish, so enjoy the learning process.

JayTi

I get at least 1 call a week to sort out cheap/rubbish satellite systems. I refuse to use the lidl/aldi dishs that people have bought and insist on supplying at minimum a standard zone2 dish if its astra. Otherwise you are married to the job. Latest joke is the lidl camping kits - you cant even gat a signal let alone proper alignment. Complete Rip Offs

watty

You should buy proper solid 60cm dishs (or 80cm in North West/South East). The Sky dishes rust terribly.

JayTi

Exactly - 80cm esp for hotbird etc

watty

If you look at the non-2D beams (six of them) for 28.2E and 28.5E you will see that South East could nearly use 45cm. The 65cm is a compromise. 2D alone is probably OK on 50cm over all of Ireland.

But for beams on 2A, 2B and Eurobird the 65cm Zone2 isn't big enough for rain margin in most of West Cork, Kerry, parts Mayo and most of Donegal. In those areas many Hotbird Channels need 1.2m, 80cm is OK in East and Midlands for Hotbird, but rubbish rain margin in west on many channels.

Check out the foot prints.

It's fab in Waterford Except it rusts terrible.