language barrier in work

LegacyUser

i work for a small german company in dublin, there is 10ppl in the office all german barr me, I dont speak german, they employed me for the english market. im here one year now and i love my job but the only one thing that is bothering me is they all including my boss speak thier own language in front of me all day, unless they are speaking directly to me then they will speak english (they have perfect english), after i was here 3 months i said this to my boss that i felt uncomfortable with them speaking german all day and that i find it quite rude, its as bad as someone whispering in front of you.

he said he would have a word, BUT the next day nothing really changed and he contuined himself talking german. in my group my boss would come over and talk german and when he'd walk away one of them would say to me 'xxx just said bla bla about the orders'.
this would piss me off cos my boss speaks perfect english, why cant he just say it in english to the whole group, its like im invisible.

sometimes there could be 3 of us in the office and 2 of them are yapping away in german and im just sitting there, i learnt to switch off, but id say to myself 'do they not think for one minute 'this is rude what were doing'.

i was going to look for another job but i thought why should I, i love it here, the only thing thats getting me down is the way they speak german all day, i dont really get included in things, its like im an outsider because im not german, i dont think they realise they are doing it but they should its common sense.

dudara

Start speaking Irish to them. Seriously. You need to keep reminding them to speak English - they've fallen into a comfortable routine of speaking German to each other but they will need to adjust if working with a non-German speaker.

peasant

Ever considered learning German?

This might be the perfect opportunity to get a language course sponsored by your employer

Jim2007

languagebarrier wrote: »

i was going to look for another job but i thought why should I, i love it here, the only thing thats getting me down is the way they speak german all day, i dont really get included in things, its like im an outsider because im not german, i dont think they realise they are doing it but they should its common sense.

On the one hand I understand how you feel as I've been there myself on a few occasions, however you have to be realistic, you're the only English speak employee of a German company, so you can't really expect them to change their entire way of operation just to satisfy you.

On the other hand you have a great opportunity to learn one of the most widely spoken languages in Europe and a very useful skill to have. I did a four week course with the Goethe and found it very good before I moved over here (Switzerland).

Perhaps your company would even sponsor you for some course in German....

On the other hand, if you are not happy with the situation, I suppose you could always look for a job in an English speaking environment.

Good luck with that,

Jim

Clauric

Similar to another post earlier, but the other side of the coin. I would suggest that you email your boss, stating that you find it very ostracizing that the rest of the team speak German when you are around. Further, state that you believe that it is a form of bullying.

I would remind him that German is not a recognised language in Ireland, for work instructions. Only two languages are recognised, Irish and English.

As a practical measure, I would start learning German.

peasant

Clauric wrote: »

Similar to another post earlier, but the other side of the coin. I would suggest that you email your boss, stating that you find it very ostracizing that the rest of the team speak German when you are around. Further, state that you believe that it is a form of bullying.

I would remind him that German is not a recognised language in Ireland, for work instructions. Only two languages are recognised, Irish and English.

Unfair as it may seem, but that's a shurefire way to see your job advertised in the "bilingual/multi-language" section and yourself fired under some pretence

JonDoe

Germans are confident people and being so, are proud of their lot which includes language. It's natural to feel a bit uneasy when you don't know what's being said around you. If you do feel somebody is taking the piss in your presence, go with your gut, usually you can tell by tone and general behavior. Don't be rash, revenge is a dish best served cold. Learn a bit of German on the QT, other than total immersion the best way to pick up a tongue is a PILMSNER course. Half hour listen and repeat stuff that CIA supposedly use. You should be able to find the basic course on a torrent site out there somewhere, if you're strict on yourself you'll have a good grasp in a month. German will make your whole world black and white, dead logical, a breath of fresh air in our subtle English bitchy world. On the whole they're a good bunch, less footie hooligans than UK.

To be fair, it's a German company. Yes, they are being a bit rude (or insensitive, maybe), but why not take this amazing opportunity to learn German? I'd be delighted to be able to listen to and learn a foreign language for free every day. It will look great on your CV. I do understand your frustration but I think it would be much better to deal with the situation by joining them, so to speak. It doesn't sound like they're using German to bully you, it sounds like they're just used to speaking it all the time.

As others have said, they could easily have employed someone bilingual in German and English. Plenty of those people out there looking for work. I really wouldn't be too shocked or offended if I joined a company where everyone else was from the same country and they spoke in that language all the time. Another poster said it isn't legal, but I don't think that's true. I've worked in multilingual call centres in Ireland where every language under the sun was spoken on the job. It would be simply too difficult for the bosses to decide when it was necessary for the job (i.e. speaking to clients and discussing address details/other details in the foreign language) and when it was chit chat. I would stop seeing this as an insult and start seeing it as a great opportunity to get to know another language and culture, if I were you.

Jim2007

Clauric wrote: »

Only two languages are recognised, Irish and English.

Please provide legal references for this, other than things such as the 1974 requirement for teachers to be able to speak Irish as in all likely hood they are invalid due to the EU directives on the free movement of people....

Good luck with that,

Jim.

Jim2007

JonDoe wrote: »

On the whole they're a good bunch, less footie hooligans than UK.

And most of their conversations are just as trivial as the rest of us

When I started working in Germanic environments, I was very interested in trying to find out what they were saying - now a days I often prefer that I did not :rolleyes:

Jim

finty

Clauric wrote: »

Further, state that you believe that it is a form of bullying.

I would tread very carefully before mentioning anything to do with bullying.

Have a sit down with your boss, tell him how you feel about things and get him to come up with a suggestion to improve the situation.

This will put the onus on him to sort it out. Learning a bit of german probably wouldn't do you any harm either.

Jim2007

Shawn Hissing Yokel wrote: »

I've worked in multilingual call centres in Ireland where every language under the sun was spoken on the job.

As the European economies become more and more integrated, this is going to become more and more common. And obviously those who make an effort will be the ones to gain from it.

It's all so worth pointing out that there are easier job opportunities for job seekers in Europe than in the US or else where and in most cases English plus a basic knowledge of the local language is enough to land a good paying job!

Jim.

dudara

Jim2007 wrote: »

Please provide legal references for this, other than things such as the 1974 requirement for teachers to be able to speak Irish as in all likely hood they are invalid due to the EU directives on the free movement of people....

Good luck with that,

Jim.

Read the start of the constitution. It's pretty clear on that part.

Jim2007

dudara wrote: »

Read the start of the constitution. It's pretty clear on that part.

Article 8 of the constitution recognizes the official languages of the state, mean that you have a right to communicate in one of those languages with the organs of state, but that is it, no where does it state that people living in the country must use any particular language when going about their business!

In the same way the EU treaties recognize Irish and English as languages of the treaty, meaning that you are entitled to communicate with the institutions of the EU in these languages, but again that is all!

And while EU case law does accept the requirement for teachers to have a knowledge of Irish, it goes on to make clear that this is very much the exception to the rule that local language can not be used as a barrier to preventing an EU citizen from taking up a position beyond the minimum required to perform the job. I therefore expect that requirements for people not to use their native language when speaking among themselves is a very grey area.

Jim.

chughes

You know you're in trouble if they are in work in the morning before you and they have a towel draped across your seat.

Gently remind them that if Hitler had his way, you would have been able to speak German and there would be no communication problem but he lost so we still speak English in this part of the world.

bbam

Clauric wrote: »

Similar to another post earlier, but the other side of the coin. I would suggest that you email your boss, stating that you find it very ostracizing that the rest of the team speak German when you are around. Further, state that you believe that it is a form of bullying.

I would remind him that German is not a recognised language in Ireland, for work instructions. Only two languages are recognised, Irish and English.

As a practical measure, I would start learning German.

Definitely a recipe for live register +1

Ask for an education allowance for German classes, it wil benifet you now and in the future and demonstrate your interest in keeping your job..

Turn this into an oppertunity rather than confrontation and a problem..

boarduser1980

it is a great opportunity to learn a new language, but yes it is very rude of them speaking it around you all day seen as you are the only irish person in the company.

although why should you have to learn the language when you are in Ireland working on the english market, it may be a german company but your job doesnt involve the german language. your boss should have employed a person who could speak both english and german...no offence

Maybe you should have another word with your boss, tell him its clearly bad manners and not nice having to listen to that 8 hours a day, would you ask your boss could he employ another irish person so that you have a bit of company?

Kila

languagebarrier wrote: »

i work for a small german company in dublin, there is 10ppl in the office all german barr me, I dont speak german, they employed me for the english market. im here one year now and i love my job but the only one thing that is bothering me is they all including my boss speak thier own language in front of me all day, unless they are speaking directly to me then they will speak english (they have perfect english), after i was here 3 months i said this to my boss that i felt uncomfortable with them speaking german all day and that i find it quite rude, its as bad as someone whispering in front of you.

he said he would have a word, BUT the next day nothing really changed and he contuined himself talking german. in my group my boss would come over and talk german and when he'd walk away one of them would say to me 'xxx just said bla bla about the orders'.
this would piss me off cos my boss speaks perfect english, why cant he just say it in english to the whole group, its like im invisible.

sometimes there could be 3 of us in the office and 2 of them are yapping away in german and im just sitting there, i learnt to switch off, but id say to myself 'do they not think for one minute 'this is rude what were doing'.

i was going to look for another job but i thought why should I, i love it here, the only thing thats getting me down is the way they speak german all day, i dont really get included in things, its like im an outsider because im not german, i dont think they realise they are doing it but they should its common sense.

I imagine it must be tough to feel left out like that, but there's probably a couple of things you can do to combat it without going down the legal/bullying type route. Maybe you could simply say it to your co-workers - i.e. make a point of involving yourself in conversations. After enough times hearing you say "what did he/she say", they may well get the point and converse in english. You could also try to start the conversations - since you'd be speaking english,they'd probably follow suit. This, again, my gradually help to remind them that you want to take part in workplace banter, and just need a bit of a helping hand with the language thing.

As others have said, this may also be an ideal time for you to broaden your skill base by learning some German. Take the initiative, and get yourself a pimsleur or similar course to get started (I personally found pimsleur good for quick, conversational language). Then, email your boss (or talk to him) and tell him that you've started learning some german yourself, and ask if there is any company support available for you to continue your learning, e.g. some sponsored courses or the like. You may find that they'll help out with paying for a course. Even if they don't, they'll probably appreciate the effort you've made, and will try to help you along with your language skills too. And you'll come across as someone who takes initiative and solves problems by themselves - good stuff in front of the boss!

Rasmus

Hi!
I agree with some of the above posters and think this is a golden opportunity for you to ask your company to send you on an excellent German language course. The Goethe Institute offers tailor-made packages to suit your work schedule. What are you waiting for?

bette

So you work for a German company in which all but your good self are German speakers. You want them to speak together in English? They address you in English but you think they are mocking you.

Learn German while you have this great opportunity or leave and find a job with English speakers. You could flaunt your fluency in Gaeilge or could you.

tinnuvial

I believe the only language requirement at work is that health & safety documents/signs etc. (and possibly contracts) should be in a language understandable by the employees. I've never come across any other language rules laid down by law.

brightspark

Free German language courses are available on line

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/0,,2547,00.html

I expect there a lot of others out there.

the_syco

OP, mention the word "bully", and I'd say you'll find yourself not fulfilling the role correctly, due to a few bad calls, etc. Not really worth it.

If you learn German, you'll find it easier to pick up as you'll be in a German speaking company. Thing of the Gaeltacht: you go to an all Irish-speaking region so you learn Irish quicker. Your present circumstances are pretty similar as you'll be learning German, and will be immersed in a German speaking workplace. You'll find the job more enjoyable, and I'd say your boss will be impressed with your ability to learn their language. It'll also mean that you'll have an extra skill should the company ever go back to Germany.

Qualitymark

You lucky thing - what a wonderful chance to learn German and have a second string to your bow, an extra employable skill.

Of course everyone in Ireland should be fluent in English and Irish, but how great to have a chance to learn a European language from native speakers - without having to pay for it!

mikemac

Get them to pay for a language course.
Ask your boss.

They probably will pay or at least make a contribution

If they won't I'd be very suprised

LegacyUser

thanks for all your replies. just to point out - i know they arent mocking me , i know they arent talking bout me, they are just speaking their own language among each other. my problem is i think it is rude, when i am in their company, its intimidating, its as rude as someone whispering around you. they all speak perfect english and deal with english customers

i have mentioned it to my boss about me learning german and asked if the company would contribute to german classes for me. he looked at me funny and said 'why do you want to learn german when you work on the UK market'. i said to him so that i can communicate with the other staff members seen as they speak german all day except for when they are speaking to customers on the phone. he said 'it is not required in your position, if you want to learn the language you can do it in your own time, but we would not be paying for it as it is at your own choice to learn it'. he made me feel awkward then:(

bbam

I'd say do the course anyway yourself... it will broaden your horizons and you can use them to practice off or at least know exactly what's going on...

Try and keep on the positive side as a job is a job, it's all too easy to move on an employee who is rocking the boat

Qualitymark

This is obviously a cross-cultural dissonance, and also a question of status.

Just smile nicely, go and do the course, and begin to use your German immediately with your workmates - ask them to help you and to correct your pronunciation and grammar.

It will be tiring, but you'll gradually build a bridge, and it will change how they see you and act towards you.

dan_d

They've obviously never heard of the phrase "when in Rome, do as the Romans".

They may feel a bit silly speaking English to each other - imagine being in spain working with mostly Irish people and speaking Spanish to them - it would feel a bit odd.

But on the other hand, yes it's quite rude OP. Maybe try and learn German, but your boss is obviously missing the point here completely.

LegacyUser

I just wanted to say I know how you feel OP. I am in a similar situation (except I am actually in the foreign country!). My job is supposed to be through English, and the necessary work-related aspects are, but I find it so difficult to integrate with the other staff and at lunch-break etc nobody makes an effort to speak English even though they are all perfectly fluent. I know it's not their fault but it does make me feel quite awkward and out of the loop on a daily basis. It's also easy to say learn the language, I've been doing that quite dilligently for 6 months now but I'm still not close to the point where I can join in with a conversation between fluent speakers - it just doesn't happen that quickly. So no major advice to give, just wanted to let you know that I understand how awkward and lonely it can be.

Captain Havoc

Have to take the side of the Germans. When I was living in Switzerland and France I spoke only English to native English speakers. I find it normal and I don't mind it when Polish or other nationalities speak their native language here and I'm not mad about them speaking English to each other anyway as they pick up bad English.

As a side note I wrote my thesis from college on Language Barriers in the Hotel Industry.

Qualitymark

It seems to me that this is a classic case of a problem that is actually an opportunity in disguise.

I'd give my eyeteeth to be working in an environment of native speakers.

I can see the point of view of your boss - it's not to the company's advantage that this particular worker (you) should be fluent in German, so why should they pay for it. They'll get no advantage whatsoever from it.

But you will get a big advantage, OP, if you pay for German classes for yourself, and then start using German a little, gradually, with your workmates, who will explain idioms to you, help you with grammar, correct your pronunciation.

At first, it will just be a phrase here and there, but as you get more fluent you'll start to use more phrases of German with them, and they with you.

At the same time, you'll be doing your work in English, as intended. So the company will be gaining from your work and your fluency in English, but you'll also be gaining fluency in German, which gives you an extra skill.

And it will help you to build your relationship with your co-workers, which has to be good too.

pickarooney

Your boss' response ws a little disingenuous, I fell. If he genuinely can't see the benefits of staff being able to communicate with one antoher and feeling comfortable around one another, you'd have to wonder what his people management skills are like.

I would start learning German pretty fast in your situation; you'll probably find that you've subconsciously picked up some words and expressions already and it's only when you come across them in another situation that you'll realise what you've been hearing.

Meanwhile if you get involved in conversations and start speaking German, there's a good chance your poor grammar and vocabulary will annoy them so much they'll speak English rather than put up with your torturing their tongue

Jim2007

pickarooney wrote: »

Your boss' response ws a little disingenuous, I fell. If he genuinely can't see the benefits of staff being able to communicate with one antoher and feeling comfortable around one another, you'd have to wonder what his people management skills are like.

Oh, I expect there is something else going on here - if the Irish boy can speak German, where is the justification for have them over in Dublin on high expat salaries etc....

Jim...

LimeFruitGum

How friendly are you with your colleagues generally? Why not say that hanging around them has encouraged you to go and do a German course and that you'd love to try speaking German with them some time once you've learned a few words?
(Plamás, I believe it is called as Gaeilge ;-) )

I speak German with a native German colleague at work and she doesn't mind at all if I make mistakes - sometimes she can't remember the right German word either ;-)