Man Vs Black belt Woman?

NG-DOC

opinion guy wrote: »

Absolutely she would. Take an Aikido class and learn.

I train Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and i enjoy that just fine so no Aikido for me.

Fair enough if that is your opinion. However, I couldn't disagree more.

Are you saying i could find you a man who has never trained, you could find me a woman who has done, we get them to fight each other and the aikido woman is going to win every time (and judging by your choice of words with ease)? I just want to be clear that this is what's being said.

Chris89

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9duTjTRUNY

OH MY GOD

NG-DOC

Chris89 wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9duTjTRUNY

OH MY GOD

unreal

Chris89

Seriously, there was fully like 20 lads not able to push him over.

HOW is that a martial arts display, its just really bad acting.

Craptacular

Chris89 wrote: »

I take your point, i have never been to an aikido class and i do know very little about it. Im just making the point that it looks fairly useless to the untrained eye, from what i can see, that lads only 'attacks' are running straight at seagal with his hands slightly raised

I did a bit if Aikido in college. It always looked staged but when you're the attacker it's no fun at all. I quickly realised why so much time was spent on breakfalls.

I'm not defending that 20 lads pushing clip by the way.

Jayo_M

Chris89 wrote: »

But surely amateur boxing is pretty close to a streetfight? A good boxer, male or female or even shemale would wreck me, or most lads who don't box r similar.

I don't think so, to be honest. When you think about it, amatuer boxing is all about point scoring. Keeping a close guard and exploding when needs be with your fists. No good if someone kicks you in the groin. They're all fine martial arts once you keep it within their realm. To be honest, I think a guy with solid TKD could take a solid amateur boxer as long as the TKD guy knew how to judge distance.

opinion guy

Chris89 wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAc-gQIeAaI

Are these the ones you are talking about??
There is no way this dude isnt being fully compliant.

And if he isnt, then how crap must he be at aikido? do these techniques only work against people who dont train, or do they work against aikidokas too?

I take your point, i have never been to an aikido class and i do know very little about it. Im just making the point that it looks fairly useless to the untrained eye, from what i can see, that lads only 'attacks' are running straight at seagal with his hands slightly raised.

Anyway, i really dont want to get in to any argument about whats effective and whats not effective, I am nowhere near qualified enough in any field to do so!

No thats not one I mean. Seagal is being particularly lazy there and I agree his attacker is not trying very hard. There's better examples. Frankly though I can't find good videos - I've seen better in real life

Doug Cartel wrote: »

Opinion guy, you have some odd opinions.

I'm getting alot of that today for some reason. I take it as a compliment. Thanks

NG-DOC wrote: »

I train Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and i enjoy that just fine so no Aikido for me.

Fair enough if that is your opinion. However, I couldn't disagree more.

Are you saying i could find you a man who has never trained, you could find me a woman who has done, we get them to fight each other and the aikido woman is going to win every time (and judging by your choice of words with ease)? I just want to be clear that this is what's being said.

Everytime ? Hell no. But I am saying a well trained woman will probably beat an untrained man.

Here is some fairly hard style stuff - woudl you f**k with this old fat dude:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex6CO4UAvD8

by the way - what is the story with the bad techno on all the martial art vids ??


Edit: Incidentally - I had bad rolling technique. I got thrown in a class one day and didn't land it right and F**KED my shoudler to the point its still ****ed ten years later. This is why this stuff is effective - if you dont' know how to absorb it, you get messed up very very quickly. Youj ain't never going to see this in a video

Jayo_M

Jayo_M wrote: »

To be honest, I think a guy with solid TKD could take a solid amateur boxer as long as the TKD guy knew how to judge distance.

I's strongly disagree, any solid amateur boxer would be well able to fight dirty, low punches, strikes to the kidney etc and they'd have enough trickery and agility to overcome the distance judging skills of the TKD chap. A solid amateur boxer will be incredibly light footed, quick and will have trained regularly at an intensity never reached by the solid TKD chap.

Doug Cartel

opinion guy wrote: »

Here is some fairly hard style stuff - woudl you f**k with this old fat dude:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex6CO4UAvD8

Well I like to avoid fighting old people and children if I can help it, so no I would not "f**k with [that] old fat dude". You seem to think he can handle himself in a fight though. What are you basing this on? Do you have any video of him dealing with a non compliant opponent?

yomchi

RoverJames wrote: »

I's strongly disagree, any solid amateur boxer would be well able to fight dirty, low punches, strikes to the kidney etc and they'd have enough trickery and agility to overcome the distance judging skills of the TKD chap. A solid amateur boxer will be incredibly light footed, quick and will have trained regularly at an intensity never reached by the solid TKD chap.

This thread could go on and on, and on... and on, and on talking about which style is better than which style and so on and on and on.

It's all bullsh1t lads. Someone said very early on, it's NOT about the system or style its about the individual.

I've taken RoverJames quote here and I can relate to this, so I'll give my tupence worth on it. In my field I'd be classed as one of those 'solid TKD guys' i've been around the block in TKD cirlcles and I'm probably one of very few TKD guys that puts his head above the parapitt to go look at other systems.

When I was 15/16 years of age I took up boxing to improve my hand skills for TKD sparring. Boxing is NOT taught as part of Taekwon-Do. You might get shown how to throw a jab cross, left hook combination but that's not all about boxing. Anyway, to make my point, when I started boxing I had about five years of Taekwon-Do down and I remember having my head pummeled by guys who were boxing less than 6 months. I couldn't get over the headaches!

It took me a good 6 months to get up to a standard with everyone else, the TKD stood for nothing. We were kickers, not punchers. We didn't learn boxing footwork or any of the other combinations, and I was in a much smaller ring that I couldn't walk out of. My standard of punching shot through the roof so much so that I was hurting lads I was sparring in the TKD club, at one point my instructor told me I would have to leave the club if I continued boxing. It still stands to me, although disqualifications ruined my international bouts, the last one being in 2008 which ended with a left hook and a disqualification. I owe a lot to boxing. Most TKD lads wouldn't stand a chance against a boxer with half the experience. Well maybe some of my lads would

To my other point, and about it being specific to the individual and not the style. I know some guys that just born street scrappers, never trained a day in their lives. I've seen one in particular swing one of Ireland's top amateur boxers (at the time - mid 1990's) around like a rag doll it was an embarrassing one sided beating, nothing was pretty about it, it was just raw with walls and parked cars being used as stationary battering rams.

You could train all day long and still be pulled inside out by lads who have honed their skills by just being born in a particular area, scrapping just comes easy to some people, you can have a 100 black belts and you'd still be mangled.

The argument about which style is better for this that or the other is rubbish and the generalisations that come with such an argument only serves to embarrass the contributer whether they know it or not.

A constructive argument would be which training methods are better and what do you get out of different types of training if your over all goal is to be a better 'fighter'.

Rant done, i'm off Kayaking

CageWager

opinion guy

Doug Cartel wrote: »

Well I like to avoid fighting old people and children if I can help it, so no I would not "f**k with [that] old fat dude". You seem to think he can handle himself in a fight though. What are you basing this on? Do you have any video of him dealing with a non compliant opponent?

Hahahaha. That opponent was NOT compliant in any sense of the word. Take some classes and you will have a new understanding of just how much of a pounding that guy is getting. Take away his training and the mats and you have opponent neutralised with one throw. Maybe two

Doug Cartel

opinion guy wrote: »

Hahahaha. That opponent was NOT compliant in any sense of the word. Take some classes and you will have a new understanding of just how much of a pounding that guy is getting. Take away his training and the mats and you have opponent neutralised with one throw. Maybe two

Taking a pounding is not the same as being non-compliant.

cowzerp

opinion guy wrote: »

Hahahaha. That opponent was NOT compliant in any sense of the word. Take some classes and you will have a new understanding of just how much of a pounding that guy is getting. Take away his training and the mats and you have opponent neutralised with one throw. Maybe two

You've got to be joking?!
he was doing somersaults without getting hit and pausing as he is gave the owl lad his arm-i've seen some demos and even though there staged you get the idea what the art is about but that looked pretty silly to me-i'm pretty sure a Judoka would dump him on his head quite easy!

opinion guy

cowzerp wrote: »

You've got to be joking?!
he was doing somersaults without getting hit and pausing as he is gave the owl lad his arm-i've seen some demos and even though there staged you get the idea what the art is about but that looked pretty silly to me-i'm pretty sure a Judoka would dump him on his head quite easy!

Try it for yourself. He's not doing somersaults he is flipping. It takes ages to learn. Its for his protection. nd he doesn't hav ea choice in it - its flip or get seriously hurt. If he was a randomer and he didn't know how to flip and this guy applied those moves he would find himself in a heap on the floor with a collection of broken bones. You can't appreciate the power in the moves from watching a video - you have to try it.


anyhow this is all offtopic.
Back to the thread premise coudl a trained woman beat an untrained man. Frankly this is ridiculous. Of course. Plenty of untrained women put the beat down on untrained mean all the time. Have you never heard of battered husbands ?

Chris89

One question I'm genuinely interested in. Is the attacker in these videos, a new aikidoka? Is he someone that hasnt trained before?

Surely if he was of a decent standard it would make for a better contest. Does he not know how to punch? Shoot for a takedown? Safely enter a clinch situation?

If on the other hand, he is a blackbelt or similar, then he's either being really compliant, or the aikido grading system needs to be seriously readressed!!

It's easy to defnd against the same attack over and over again. As you said yourself. This isn't competitive aikido. If it's not competitive. Then he's being compliant.

I am not saying I am better than him or comparng it to other martial arts.

I'm just saying it looks very fake.

cowzerp

opinion guy wrote: »

anyhow this is all offtopic.
Back to the thread premise coudl a trained woman beat an untrained man. Frankly this is ridiculous. Of course. Plenty of untrained women put the beat down on untrained mean all the time. Have you never heard of battered husbands ?

Of course a trained woman could beat an untrained man, but its not likely as they would in most cases just get out fought and out powered, as far as your battered husband thing, these are men that usually just let the women beat them, i've seen it myself-if the stuck a solid dig in that would end this quick enough.

Also its worth noting that there are some manly chicks out there that would be an exception and also some girly men too, put them together and end result would probably reverse! sexist? maybe, but true.

getz

you are all falling into the trap of [martial arts] fighting within rules, i have been training over 50 years and i am graded in five different arts,and i can honestly say,its not the size,sex or how strong the person is,its the speed and skill that always wins

opinion guy

Chris89 wrote: »

One question I'm genuinely interested in. Is the attacker in these videos, a new aikidoka? Is he someone that hasnt trained before?

Black belt.

Surely if he was of a decent standard it would make for a better contest. Does he not know how to punch? Shoot for a takedown? Safely enter a clinch situation?

Its not a contest thou. The point is to train the moves without hurting the other guy so that if you do ever have to apply them for real they are second instinct. There are reversals to most of these moves which I've seen in real life with two black belts going at it but I can't find any videos of it.

If on the other hand, he is a blackbelt or similar, then he's either being really compliant, or the aikido grading system needs to be seriously readressed!!

Why ? Hes not trying to hurt the other guy.

It's easy to defnd against the same attack over and over again. As you said yourself. This isn't competitive aikido. If it's not competitive. Then he's being compliant.

Exactly it isn't competitive. Its practice. There is no competition. They are practicing the same move over and over to perfect it.

I am not saying I am better than him or comparng it to other martial arts.

I'm just saying it looks very fake.

See thou - its not fake. Your simply viewing it from the wrong perspective. ITs not a fight, its training. They are not trying to hurt each other- in fact the very opposite, they are trying to execute damaging moves WITHOUT hurting each other. Its repetition so that if/when you decide to use that move in a real fight should you be unfortunate enough to find yourself in one then you don't have to think its all muscle memory. Of course you can also punch, kick whatever seems appropriate also. But if you applied these moves at an appropriate point in a fight without trying to protect your opponent it woudl be the end of the fight.

You really think if that 10th dan old guy was walking down the street in his street clothes and random street punk tried to mug him that those powerful techniques he's using would not come in useful ?

Chris89

Fair enough, so hes training, hes allowing the 'thrower' to throw him repeatedly, by attacking him in the same way over and over again, not trying to counter his throws, not providing any resistance.

I have no idea id it would work in a real fight, I am simply saying these guys are being 100% compliant.

Chris89

By the way, why are you so obsessed with old fat guys!!

surely a young fit black belt would beat an old guy up?

RedXIV

Chris89 wrote: »

By the way, why are you so obsessed with old fat guys!!

surely a young fit black belt would beat an old guy up?

If there is one thing that hollywood has taught me, NEVER pick on the old fat guy with martial arts training.

I'm looking at you Miyagi!

Samba

Well define untrained, a good street fighter who could never have trained in his life but has vast experience in real life situations. They would would have a good shot at taking out any black belt martial artist, regardless of their sex.

Chris89

Samba wrote: »

Well define untrained, a good street fighter who could never have trained in his life but has vast experience in real life situations. They would would have a good shot at taking out any black belt martial artist, regardless of their sex.

Exactly, another one of the many variables that make this indeterminable.

LevelSpirit

I was working on a building site about 15 years ago and we had a similar argument among ourselves one day.

One of the guys was a fairly well know and good boxer where we were working. He said at lunch one day that he could beat any man who wasnt a very good well trained boxer. I wont name him because most people into boxing in Ireland would know his name.

One guy, who was fairly out of shape but about the same weight as said boxer called him out on it, never trained in fighting ever, but a known rough head around the place. Next thing they were betting £100 on it. So after work they fight was on between them.

The boxer landed 3 or 4 punches before the guy grabbed him by the back of the head. Kneed him in the face a couple of times and let him go. Fight over. Boxer on the ground in bits and owing £100.

A boxer is fine against someone who is fighting by the same rules. But thats all. Same probably goes for any fighter, women included.

opinion guy

Chris89 wrote: »

Fair enough, so hes training, hes allowing the 'thrower' to throw him repeatedly, by attacking him in the same way over and over again, not trying to counter his throws, not providing any resistance.

I have no idea id it would work in a real fight, I am simply saying these guys are being 100% compliant.

No its not 100% compliant. They are presenting an expected attack, yes, but they are not simply going with it after that. There is resistance, but when the moves are done right you have no choice but to comply. Almost all these moves have joint locks and nerve pinches built into them. Unless you are immune to pain you have to submit at some point. Look we can talk about it over and over. Try it and feel it for yourself.

Chris89 wrote: »

By the way, why are you so obsessed with old fat guys!!

surely a young fit black belt would beat an old guy up?

Surely they could. Maybe. Whats your point ? I'm not obsessed with old fat guys, it was merely a point that looks can be deceiving. Just because you think someone should be easy to beat like a woman or an old fat guy doesn't mean they are.

Samba wrote: »

Well define untrained, a good street fighter who could never have trained in his life but has vast experience in real life situations. They would would have a good shot at taking out any black belt martial artist, regardless of their sex.

True.
Ultimately if you ask me it all comes down to ruthlessness, determination and conditioning. Style is probably a minor factor after that.

yomchi

getz wrote: »

you are all falling into the trap of [martial arts] fighting within rules, i have been training over 50 years and i am graded in five different arts,and i can honestly say,its not the size,sex or how strong the person is,its the speed and skill that always wins

Nope. It's the persons ability to perform under pressure that wins, ie - mindset.

Mindset equates to confidence and experience. That's why a guy who has served his time in real combat sports and has tested his ability under pressure is always going to have a better chance to prevail. Anyone that hasn't experienced a live match with full contact or a real street scrap will inevitably lose all skill and speed out their arse hole as they get a dose of adrenalin pumped through them. Skill is far from the most important aspect, if you read my previous post I gave an experience of witnessing a one sided beating on a guy, none of it was skill it was just caveman like. Ug kill target, ug hungry, ug need eat.

These guys had no skill, just brutal determination...



Again, woods that way ->

lukeyjudo

This thread is a bit ridiculous. Female fighters can be as good as male fighters.

If you want to see what style beats what style or street fighter whatever - watch the first couple of UFC's.

IMHO if you want to be the best fighter you can be - train MMA in a successful and reputable club.

And if you enjoy what you do and your happy... Just keep f*****g doing it man.

Btw who would win in a fight? A gorilla or a bear? Now there's a fight I'd love to see!

themandan6611

yomchi wrote: »

Nope. It's the persons ability to perform under pressure that wins, ie - mindset.

Mindset equates to confidence and experience. That's why a guy who has served his time in real combat sports and has tested his ability under pressure is always going to have a better chance to prevail. Anyone that hasn't experienced a live match with full contact or a real street scrap will inevitably lose all skill and speed out their arse hole as they get a dose of adrenalin pumped through them. Skill is far from the most important aspect, if you read my previous post I gave an experience of witnessing a one sided beating on a guy, none of it was skill it was just caveman like. Ug kill target, ug hungry, ug need eat.

Agree with this summary - have been sparring in TKD for the last year and can honestly say that should I be involved in a street fight the sparring enviroment I have become used to will help in terms of control of the adrenalin and really being more comfortable.

yomchi

lukeyjudo wrote: »

Btw who would win in a fight? A gorilla or a bear? Now there's a fight I'd love to see!

That's an unfair match up Lukey and well you know it. That gorilla trains in SBG :cool: