Presely Reception

jabarrett35

Hi I'm just wondering what the Presely reception is like today? It was rock solid here until about 1500 hrs since then it's been coming and going. Looking at tropospheric map for 1200 UTC there was no ducting,by 1800 UTC there marginal level of the south coast. However cloud cover has increase and there appears to be mist out to sea. Which I assume attenuates the signal. The way it comes and goes reminds me of the reception I got with analogue UHF with this sort of weather.

It is perfect here at the moment and has been any time I've had it on.
Have you lost all muxes or just the weaker ones?
43 and 46 are 20kw
The others are just 10.
Fog does kill it though causing in my case drop outs but it's rare.
Tropo also kills it ,same effect but then potentially it also kills rte.

what kind of aerial did ye install by the way,did he use a digital meter to line it up properly? and could you post a pic?

jabarrett35

Hi Black Briar I put up a 50 element mulitibeam but it's wideband and it needs to be group B. I only did this because it was what I had in the shed, it was given to me! It is more of a trial though it was installed using a digital meter. However my dad says I need 100 element and of course the right group. Though I think even with a 100 element aerial with poor atmospheric I would be pushed the receive a signal in the winter. I'll see how it goes. Though sea mist seems to be a major problem and remembering back to before deflectors and satellite this was all ways so, in this area. I'll try to get pictures. Any advice greatly appreciated.

A group b with a group b masthead amp and yes a 100 elements and you'd be flying.
Whats it like today?
Its perfect up here.

jabarrett35

No reception today at present. Getting Irish DTT on ch 45 which must becoming from the side of the Presely aerial. Blake are out of stock of JBX21B at present. Would a group B 60 element be enough with a group B masthead amp?

Gerry Wicklow

I had a few brief drop-outs yesterday (9/9) presumably weather related. They normally only last a few seconds to a minute at most. The funny thing is it often only affects one frequency. No doubt some genius here can explain about particle density matching wavelengths or cows standing the wrong way or something:)

I wouldn't be in front of the tv often enough daytime to notice drop outs but there were none here last night that I noticed.
Signal strength today is down a good bit,hovering around 40% whereas normally it's up at 60%.
On strong presely days it's up at 90%
Quality today is a solid 100%

I have film4 on at the moment from ch49 and it's perfect.

I would at a minimum get a 100 element group B and a group B masthead amp.

My aerial guy is very good by the way and would nip down to you as he's based in wexford and does up to Dublin and into carlow and all over the place and would do a class job for you including sourcing the gear.
pm me if you want his number.It's worth getting it done in my opinion properly and by someone that does it a lot and is very good at it because it's done once and thats it.

jabarrett35

I was looking at the Fracarro aerials, out of interest which one would be best in my area on coast in the south east. Black Briar Ta for the PM.

jabarrett35

Hi what are group B masthead amplifier's called I was looking on the Blake's web site and to honest most of it could be double Dutch? Rain and mist appear to be a major attenuation problem because as it has cleared the reception has sprung back to life.

Group B are the channels from 39 to 53 on which presely broadcasts.
The mast head amp is just amplifying that group if B.
Rain does not really affect presely.
Fog does to varying degree's.

I've not been able to find a group B only masthead online -widebands galore though

Anyhow if you are going down the diy route,you'll find a lot of usefull information in this thread

watty

Good general purpose amps
http://www.blake-uk.com/promhd.aspx

I've tested a few. Wideband but seem to work better than some brands of Group amps


Antiference Group B mast amp I havn't tried these, but they should be OK
http://www.vanjak.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=30659

jabarrett35

Hi Thank you Watty for the information. Black Briar I was only interested Group B mast heads as matter of educating myself. I spoke to the installer he was not that keen on coming down this far. However if he is in the area he give me a ring. Reception has been good so far this am.

:D
pity
I figured it might be on the edge of reason for him alright.

jabarrett35

I think it was the time it takes to get here. By the seem quite hard to find a group B 100 element that's in stock. Are the Telves DAT 75 a waste of money I know they are Wideband?

Mylie could source all that gear for you to be honest,second hand and in good nick,including the masthead and power supply if you are prepared to take a drive up to him some evening.
You'd also get chapter and verse on how to install it.

The only problem is,you need a meter.
You couldn't take yours down and put it back up on a rough guess.
Mylies digital meter is top notch circa €1000's worth.

You won't get a lend of it unfortunately.

watty

jabarrett35 wrote: »

I Are the Telves DAT 75 a waste of money I know they are Wideband?

There are many worse aerials and they are Wideband.

One SR18 will beat them for a Group. Telves has poor node/anti ghosting performance. Picks up too well in certain other directions. But it is wideband maybe better than SR18W in Group A, but not better on C.

jabarrett35

Hi Black Briar your installer just finished a great job. A new Unix 100 group b aerial, a channelised mast amplifier and a new distribution amplifier get a great signal on all but ch 49. However he said with any bit of lift it should fly in.

Great to hear!

What I really like about being in the southeast and doing a set up like that is the simplicity.
Any mpeg4 tv anywhere in the house now with a tv point gets the irish channels in digital and most of the important freeview uk channels.
We have sky and a magic eye fed through the distribution amp aswell so all rooms have access to that and a freesat as back up.
But really losing presely freeview channels up here even on 49 is very very rare.

Enjoy!

marclt

Ch. 49 is still a bit of an issue and certainly isn't as robust as the others for some reason.

Not sure why!

razor_ryan

jabarrett35 wrote: »

Hi Black Briar your installer just finished a great job. A new Unix 100 group b aerial, a channelised mast amplifier and a new distribution amplifier get a great signal on all but ch 49. However he said with any bit of lift it should fly in.

How are the signal levels will be interesting to see when winter sets in

jabarrett35

Not great at all today. With high pressure I thought it would be better. I've got flu so I am able to monitor it reception closely.

watty

jabarrett35 wrote: »

I'b gob flu so I am able to monitor it reception clobly.

Fixed that for you. Of course in your fevered state how reliable are your observations?

jabarrett35

jabarrett35 wrote: »

Not great at all today. With high pressure I thought it would be better. I've got flu so I am able to monitor it reception closely.

High pressure can make presely worse.
Presely lifts are different.Signal gets very strong ahead of rain.

How are the high power muxes 43 and 46 ? the ones with bbc and itv1,2 ch4 and five on them

42 and 49 are half that power-the other channel fives,e4 and film 4 etc

Also and this is very important with dtt in high pressure..
make sure you have auto tuning turned off

Reason being if any other transmitter comes in even for a few minutes - it confuses the tuner and the tv sets the new frequency for that channel over riding presely.
You could then think that you have lost your channel as the brief visitor has been reset by the telly as that channel instead of the presely version and the visitor is one so the telly would say for example itv1 wales -no signal! as you need to retune presely.

To avoid this-turn autotune off

jabarrett35

I wondering is it possible the distribution amplifier has gone bang. Irish DTT but nothing from Presely? I turned auto tuning off after Carden Hill wreck my EPG! No I'm not feeling great!

Oh hang on.
It's possible that your distribution amplifier is overloading due to the strength of presely tonight.
It's very very strong.
You need an attenuator.
I had that problem here

Whats your analogue like?
Is that gone fuzzy?

jabarrett35

Sorry I'm late in getting back to you. My analogue is ghosted. DTT is dropping in and out every fewing seconds the strenght goes up to a 100% then down to 0%.

Thats a problem somewhere if it's doing that.
It's not the reception.
Is that happening at all tv points?

Could the internal cabling to the tv points in the house be worn out?
Have you tried all points?

jabarrett35

My Irish DTT is fine. The cabling is only 4 yrs old. My headaches to think if that is a problem!

razor_ryan

Could be your Masthead Amp being to close to the Aerial causing it to overload also if you can bypass the Distribution Amp and check on just one TV give it a try

I suggest you give the installer a shout back.
That sounds to me like there is a loose connection somewhere.

The cable being 4 years old wouldn't stop it going wrong by the way.If the cables are loose in the loft for instance,they could have been stretched at anytime and you wouldn't know or remember.

That said it does look like a loose connection somewhere on the feed from the UK aerial. DTT does not go from zero to a 100 constantly every few seconds.
The good news is,thats all that it is and the level it jumps to is the level of your reception once you find the loose connection.

razor_ryan

jabarrett35

Have you sorted it yet ?

Antenna

jabarrett35 wrote: »

Not great at all today. With high pressure I thought it would be better. .

The strength of BBC Radio 4 on 104.9 FM would be a rough guide to reception of DTT from Presely where you are I would say. Try monitoring the strength of 104.9 on car radio or other good receiver. Can you hear 104.9 there at the moment ?

Be warned you are never going to have consistent DTT reception from there if it was never the case for analogue TV, the long distance propagation isn't going to be any different.

Antenna

Antenna wrote: »

The strength of BBC Radio 4 on 104.9 FM would be a rough guide to reception of DTT from Presely where you are I would say. Try monitoring the strength of 104.9 on car radio or other good receiver. Can you hear 104.9 there at the moment ?

Be warned you are never going to have consistent DTT reception from there if it was never the case for analogue TV, the long distance propagation isn't going to be any different.

Presely behaves differently to many other transmitters.It's obviously something to do with the track of the signal but I don't know exactly what it is.
It's reception strength can vary considerably.
It's on fire this evening for instance-very very strong.
I don't think presely reception is the issue.It's more than likely a fault somewhere.
As I said in my previous post,Reception does not repeatedly go from nothing to near a 100 every few seconds naturally.
A flakey connection somewhere is what does that

jabarrett35

Yes, I got it sorted Ta. Presely is very strong tonight. I get radio 4 on 92.45. 104.9 is too near Newstalk for me to receive radio 4. I was able to receive it before Newstalk went countrywide. I'm getting strong signal on 41 and 44 all Welsh I have'nt looked them up to see which transmitter it is. Fun a enough Ch 49 is not coming in I wonder if there is co-channel interference from another transmitter. Because I'm getting 90-98% strenght and 80% quality on the other Presely MUX.

41 and 44 tonight are arfon!
welcome to the world of group b visitors
Long mountain and llandonna might also visit oh and redruth will come in on41 and 44 easily on a b down there in proper hp lifts instead of arfon.

What you are experiencing tonight and tomorrow is a presely pre weather frontal arrival lift

what was wrong by the way?

whats the signal strength on 49?
quality must be below 20
It could be co channel

jabarrett35

Hi Black Briar it was a loose f connection in the distribution amplifier. Ch 49 is coming in but I'm sure it is co-channeling with another transmitter. Oh Presely Ch 45 is also coming is at times. Carden Hill is coming in on the 20's which is not that much of a surprise as it often vists. Thank god auto tuning is off otherwise my EPG would be a complete mess by now!

razor_ryan

How is Presely coming in the last couple of days

jabarrett35

It was great until late last night. However it is only coming in fleetingly today when I've had time to look. That's to be expected really, being 97 miles from Preseli.

jabarrett35

I just do not understand the Presely transmitter!! It is coming in with 100% quality on all Muxs today(including Ch 45). Mist fog and rain. There's no ducting and a low pressure area all of these I thought would attenuate UHF signal. May be I'm stupid but can anyone explain? Actually there is fair ducting just over that part of the Irish sea. However it normally needs much higher levels trop ducting to get Ch 45 and anticyclonic conditions.

jabarrett35

jabarrett35 wrote: »

I just do not understand the Presely transmitter!! It is coming in with 100% quality on all Muxs today(including Ch 45). Mist fog and rain. There's no ducting and a low pressure area all of these I thought would attenuate UHF signal. May be I'm stupid but can anyone explain? Actually there is fair ducting just over that part of the Irish sea. However it normally needs much higher levels trop ducting to get Ch 45 and anticyclonic conditions.

As I've said many times,Rain hardly affects presely at all-so Enjoy
It can dip immediately after rain though and gets very very strong before rain.

The latter situation is a big problem for mt leinster in wexford as we tend to get a fair bit of rain..

During Tropo,you might actually have problems with presely as it will be driven away from you and other far away tx's might interfere with it.

Sam Russell

jabarrett35 wrote: »

I just do not understand the Presely transmitter!! It is coming in with 100% quality on all Muxs today(including Ch 45). Mist fog and rain. There's no ducting and a low pressure area all of these I thought would attenuate UHF signal. May be I'm stupid but can anyone explain? Actually there is fair ducting just over that part of the Irish sea. However it normally needs much higher levels trop ducting to get Ch 45 and anticyclonic conditions.

I drove up from Wexford today, back to Dublin, and could not receive RTE1 radio on FM from Wexford till I got north of Arklow. Was Mount Leinster off the air by any chance?

yes RTE radio one on mt leinster was definitely off air several times today at various points in the day.
I don't know about the other channels.

razor_ryan

Will be interesting how the signal is over the next couple of days with this new weather front in the Dunmore and Tramore area's

jabarrett35

Reception last night was very poor on all Muxs. However this morning reception
has been good on all but Ch 49. I usually known when Preseli is going to be good when the Ch 45 signal starts to drop and swaps over to Wales DTT. I was getting Ch 45 from Presely most of the week until yesterday and today.

cyfra

Are you getting the HD Channels

jabarrett35

Hi Cyfra, no I can't get the HD channels because I've not got a T 2 box yet which is the UK HD standard. You can't check the signal on a MPEG4 box it just shows no signal.

cyfra

Still though your getting Freeview in Tramore which is achievement in itself keep us posted as the weather creeps in

jabarrett35

Just got Humax Fox HD T2 box but I'm still not getting any signal on Ch50. I've done a manual frequency check and changed the transmission to DVB T2 not blip. Reception isn't great here on the other Presely channels but I thought I would get some sort of signal. By the by it is a lovely looking box I wonder is it designed by Samsung?

I'm thinking of getting one of those myself! The sagemcom is crap by comparison.

Could you be having the same problem with ch 50 as you are with ch 49?

ch 50 is the same power as the bbc and itv muxes so it should work better than ch 49 for you.

You should have had no need to change any tuning setting.
I'd do a reset to default to undo what ever you did.

In the humax,you should be able in the menu to go to the installation section and manually tune in ch 50-but you will have to hit ok,did you do that? simply having it in the drop down wouldn't be enough.
Also try the box on the main feed without the distribution amplifier if you can.
Don't search for channels on it,just select it and it should show signal strength and quality.
Presely is weak today and yesterday on the lower level of acceptable but working fine on my set up.

jabarrett35

Thanks BB I think it's the signal strenght. The other thing is that all the UK channels have gone into the 800's and are order by muxs rather than BBC1 BBC2 ITV1 and so on how can sort that out? I had to do manual scan for RTE because I end up with 4 different muxs instead of just one ie. Ch 55. I think you are right that I should do a reset.

You sort that out by doing a manual scan for each of presely's muxes.

Start with 43,then46,then 42 and then 49 and then the Dungarvan mux or whichever RTE that you are on.
It's possible that if you have the country set to Ireland on that box,that it is putting the UK channels in the 800's for that reason.

See if there is an option for reordering the channels in the EPG aswell,I can do that on my sony tv but not on the sagemcom.