Coan Phillipi

G86

Have a few questions on Coan Phillipi (for someone who's done it preferably)

1. What's a decent guesstimate for your max? I'm looking at a 15kg increase - is that too much/little?
2. How essential is the outlined assistance work?

See here: http://tsampa.org/training/scripts/coan_phillipi_deadlift/?curmax=110&targetmax=125&type=kg&submit=Calculate

Cheers

Hanley

G86 wrote: »

Have a few questions on Coan Phillipi (for someone who's done it preferably)

1. What's a decent guesstimate for your max? I'm looking at a 15kg increase - is that too much/little?
2. How essential is the outlined assistance work?

See here: http://tsampa.org/training/scripts/coan_phillipi_deadlift/?curmax=110&targetmax=125&type=kg&submit=Calculate

Cheers

1) I'd probably only go with 8-10% of your current max as a targeted increase.
2) IMO the assistance work is the backbone of the program and if you leave it out you may as well not do it. There's no really a whole lot of work or anything to drive adaptation in the heavy work up double sets. All the overload comes from the "speed" pulls and assistance work.

G86

Hanley wrote: »

1) I'd probably only go with 8-10% of your current max as a targeted increase.
2) IMO the assistance work is the backbone of the program and if you leave it out you may as well not do it. There's no really a whole lot of work or anything to drive adaptation in the heavy work up double sets. All the overload comes from the "speed" pulls and assistance work.

Meh, I figured as much.

Thanks!

Brian?

G86 wrote: »

Have a few questions on Coan Phillipi (for someone who's done it preferably)

1. What's a decent guesstimate for your max? I'm looking at a 15kg increase - is that too much/little?
2. How essential is the outlined assistance work?

See here: http://tsampa.org/training/scripts/coan_phillipi_deadlift/?curmax=110&targetmax=125&type=kg&submit=Calculate

Cheers

As a matter of interest, why the deadlift specialisation? Plateau?

d'Oracle

Its only one day a week isn't it?

Hanley

d'Oracle wrote: »

Its only one day a week isn't it?

Yip. A complete horrible cnut of a day too.

G86

briankeating wrote: »

As a matter of interest, why the deadlift specialisation? Plateau?

Just 'cause I love 'em:D:D

And because I've been going on about wanting a double BW deadlift for long enough, so I figure it's about time I started
doing something about it:pac:. No real plateau..just been sick an not training past 2 weeks so could so with a kickstart.

I just wanted to slot the deadlifts into my normal workouts, thought it'd work out pretty handy as it's only once a week. But the assistance work doesn't make me a happy bunny, would need to get someone to run through good mornings with me and the rest doesn't really appeal much either..

I'll see!

Hanley

G86 wrote: »

Just 'cause I love 'em:D:D

And because I've been going on about wanting a double BW deadlift for long enough, so I figure it's about time I started
doing something about it:pac:. No real plateau..just been sick an not training past 2 weeks so could so with a kickstart.

I just wanted to slot the deadlifts into my normal workouts, thought it'd work out pretty handy as it's only once a week. But the assistance work doesn't make me a happy bunny, would need to get someone to run through good mornings with me and the rest doesn't really appeal much either..

I'll see!

If you don't wanna do it, its probably a sign you should!!

Ditch your party oop north and come to the beers, you'll learn GM's there.

G86

Hanley wrote: »

If you don't wanna do it, its probably a sign you should!!

Ditch your party oop north and come to the beers, you'll learn GM's there.

No can do I'm afraid!:p

GM's don't particularly exhilarate me...(nor do lat pull downs or shrugs) but if it means I get to deadlift lots I could be persuaded to try them.

Hanley

G86 wrote: »

No can do I'm afraid!:p

GM's don't particularly exhilarate me...(nor do lat pull downs or shrugs) but if it means I get to deadlift lots I could be persuaded to try them.

Lat pulldowns... shrugs...??

What are you looking at??

Lat pulldowns instead of chins, fair enough.

The shrugs are power shrugs, like an hang pull in olympic lifting. Great fun. You can toss about SERIOUS weight on them.

Brian?

G86 wrote: »

Just 'cause I love 'em:D:D

As good a reason as any I suppose. They are by far and away my favourite excercise as well, probably because I can pull 1.6xBW and my squat is nowhere near that.

G86 wrote: »

And because I've been going on about wanting a double BW deadlift for long enough, so I figure it's about time I started
doing something about it:pac:. No real plateau..just been sick an not training past 2 weeks so could so with a kickstart.

I just wanted to slot the deadlifts into my normal workouts, thought it'd work out pretty handy as it's only once a week. But the assistance work doesn't make me a happy bunny, would need to get someone to run through good mornings with me and the rest doesn't really appeal much either..

I'll see!

It does really seem to be all about the assistance work, otherwise it's just DLing once a week. Goodmornings are straight forward enough, as with everything start light.

I like the speed deadlifting as well, I have been experimenting with this recently with a little success. I am surprised there are no rack pulls in there though.

Where is the sticking point of your DL?

There is some good stuff in this series of articles that might help as well.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/mastering_the_deadlift_part_iii&cr=

Brian?

Hanley wrote: »

Lat pulldowns... shrugs...??

What are you looking at??

Lat pulldowns instead of chins, fair enough.

The shrugs are power shrugs, like an hang pull in olympic lifting. Great fun. You can toss about SERIOUS weight on them.

Is this a good example of a power shrug?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7oVLXzpqt0

If it is, why not do rack pulls+power shrug instead?

Hanley

briankeating wrote: »

It does really seem to be all about the assistance work, otherwise it's just DLing once a week. Goodmornings are straight forward enough, as with everything start light.

I like the speed deadlifting as well, I have been experimenting with this recently with a little success. I am surprised there are no rack pulls in there though.

Where is the sticking point of your DL?

There is some good stuff in this series of articles that might help as well.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/mastering_the_deadlift_part_iii&cr=

The speed deadlifts per the program arent actually traditional speed DL's ala Westside's DE method. They tend to be ground out as the cycle goes on.

If you'd run thru it you'd know why there's no rack pulls in there. You just couldn't recover from them. It's A LOT of lower back intensive work. A huge amount like.

And if you're squatting as well on top of that.... see you later!

COH

Hanley wrote: »

If you'd run thru it you'd know why there's no rack pulls in there. You just couldn't recover from them. It's A LOT of lower back intensive work. A huge amount like.

And if you're squatting as well on top of that.... see you later!

I didn't find squatting to be a problem at all. The opposite actually, squatting felt a hell of alot more solid after all the glute/ham/posterior work.

G86

Hanley wrote: »

Lat pulldowns... shrugs...??

What are you looking at??

Lat pulldowns instead of chins, fair enough.

The shrugs are power shrugs, like an hang pull in olympic lifting. Great fun. You can toss about SERIOUS weight on them.

I thought this was the assistance work?
Stiff-leg deadlifts
Bent over row
Underhand grip lat pulldown
Arched back good morning
Powershrugs(from wk 5)


If lat pull downs are meant to be chins then I'd just do inverted rows and that solves that. Might ask Kieran about the power shrugs and good mornings on Sat if he's about.

Hanley

briankeating wrote: »

Is this a good example of a power shrug?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7oVLXzpqt0

If it is, why not do rack pulls+power shrug instead?

Yup, that's a decent one.

What's your obsession with rack pulls?! For a rack pull to be effective, it needs to be heavy. It needs to be in or around normal deadlift training weights. Throwing a load of rack pulls on top of all the lower back work already involved in that program would completely capper you up.

Next time you're in the gym try the first day of it. Time your rest periods on all exercises and be ruthless about it. The 60 seconds between speed pulls and 60-90 seconds between lifts in the circuit will kill you. You won't be asking for rack pulls after that.

Hanley

G86 wrote: »

I thought this was the assistance work?
Stiff-leg deadlifts
Bent over row
Underhand grip lat pulldown
Arched back good morning
Powershrugs(from wk 5)


If lat pull downs are meant to be chins then I'd just do inverted rows and that solves that. Might ask Kieran about the power shrugs and good mornings on Sat if he's about.

Haha ****... you're right aobut the pulldowns. They're for losers anyway. But yah that's it alright.

Brian?

Hanley wrote: »

The speed deadlifts per the program arent actually traditional speed DL's ala Westside's DE method. They tend to be ground out as the cycle goes on.

Fair enough.

Hanley wrote: »

If you'd run thru it you'd know why there's no rack pulls in there. You just couldn't recover from them. It's A LOT of lower back intensive work. A huge amount like.

And if you're squatting as well on top of that.... see you later!

Ah you see what happened here, I was thinking of this program in isolation. It would be a lower back killer alright.

COH

G86 wrote: »

power shrugs

I took them off the rack, like a lockout rack pull, and went super heavy on them. I think I finished up doing 300kg x5 or something stupid like that. Theres an arguemnt somewhere that its supposed to be an explosive deadlift off the ground with a shrug at the top, hence the low weight, but I never found it

Brian?

Hanley wrote: »

Yup, that's a decent one.

What's your obsession with rack pulls?! For a rack pull to be effective, it needs to be heavy. It needs to be in or around normal deadlift training weights. Throwing a load of rack pulls on top of all the lower back work already involved in that program would completely capper you up.

It might seem like I have an obsession with rack pulls right now, I really don't though. I think they are a good DL assistance excercise and a great back builder, that's all. The level of volume in this here program would kill your lower back alright. I promise not to bring them up anymore.

Hanley wrote: »

Next time you're in the gym try the first day of it. Time your rest periods on all exercises and be ruthless about it. The 60 seconds between speed pulls and 60-90 seconds between lifts in the circuit will kill you. You won't be asking for rack pulls after that.

I might actually try it. I think I am too used to low volume work to have any real idea what its going to feel like.

G86

briankeating wrote: »

As good a reason as any I suppose. They are by far and away my favourite excercise as well, probably because I can pull 1.6xBW and my squat is nowhere near that.

Where is the sticking point of your DL?

Deadlifts definitely win out over squats in my book!

Max is 110kg, went for 115kg few weeks ago but it wasn't happening.

G86

COH wrote: »

I didn't find squatting to be a problem at all. The opposite actually, squatting felt a hell of alot more solid after all the glute/ham/posterior work.

Good because I got BW to be hitting...

COH

G86 wrote: »

Good because I got BW to be hitting...

I'm not saying I wasn't in bits 7 days a week, it just felt solid! If you like pain, then do it.

In fact just do it anyway, its awesome.

G86

Jeebus an here was me thinking one day of deadlifts couldn't hurt that much...:pac:

As for the power shrugs, I'll try 'em and see how I get on. I refuse to go near the lat pulldown, evil machine. Inverted Rows it is:D

Brian?

G86 wrote: »

Deadlifts definitely win out over squats in my book!

Max is 110kg, went for 115kg few weeks ago but it wasn't happening.

That's some decent lifting right there. By sticking point I meant, where you fail on the lift. If you fail regularly at the same point it might be a good idea to work on a specific portion of the lift.

G86

briankeating wrote: »

That's some decent lifting right there. By sticking point I meant, where you fail on the lift. If you fail regularly at the same point it might be a good idea to work on a specific portion of the lift.

Oh right, sorry! Ach I only got it about an inch off the ground like. Sure I'll see where CP gets me, lovin it so far:D